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In Illinois, Tax Increases Become an Article of Faith
WSJ On-line ^ | April 25, 2014 | Heather Wilhelm

Posted on 04/26/2014 8:02:26 AM PDT by Pontiac

Donning orange T-shirts reading "Faith in Action," a coalition of religious groups flooded the state capitol in Springfield, singing hymns, shouting "Hallelujah," and praying for higher taxes on the rich. Their goal: replacing the state's long-standing flat income tax with a new, progressive "Fair Tax."

Snip

When asked whether additional tax revenue would really be used to help the poor, supporters like Rev. Hawking and Rev. Coulter tend to change the subject. When asked whether a progressive tax might backfire by driving wealth and jobs out of Illinois, both doubted anyone would leave. Besides, Rev. Hawking told me, "minimum wage earners," not the wealthy, "are the real job creators." The numbers, which show Illinois ranking second in the nation in outbound moves and losing more than $30 billion in adjusted gross income between 1992 and 2010, suggest otherwise.

Snip

"These are people who put their faith in government to do what communities and churches should be doing," Mr. Greenberg said. "There's just this strange faith in government in general—which, as the corrupt and incompetent government in Illinois clearly demonstrates, is a seriously flawed faith." Brian Burch, the president of Catholic Vote, an Illinois advocacy group, put it another way: "They're substituting the state for God."

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; US: Illinois
KEYWORDS: illinois; religion; taxes; unions
It sickens me to see the Christian faith and the Bible subverted to pick the pockets of tax payers to enrich Unions or anyone else

When will these people accept that if it isn’t voluntary it isn’t Christian charity.

Sorry. If you put your faith in government you will always be disappointed.

1 posted on 04/26/2014 8:02:26 AM PDT by Pontiac
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To: Pontiac

The Caesars were deities too. Illinois is a lost cause.


2 posted on 04/26/2014 8:08:17 AM PDT by virgil (The evil that men do lives after them)
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To: Pontiac

The Church of Covetousness and Theft


3 posted on 04/26/2014 8:10:25 AM PDT by all the best (`~!)
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To: virgil

Springfield may be the capital but Chicago runs the state and Chicago is as corrupt as Rome was in its hay day.


4 posted on 04/26/2014 8:11:29 AM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Pontiac

Loaded up the Truck and moved out of ILLINOIS!

5 posted on 04/26/2014 8:13:14 AM PDT by sr4402
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To: all the best
The Church of Covetousness and Theft

I believe that Church has a monastic order called the Brothers of Graft and Fraud.

6 posted on 04/26/2014 8:13:58 AM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Pontiac

Worshipers in the Church of Envy.


7 posted on 04/26/2014 8:14:40 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: Pontiac

The six contradictions of socialism in the United States of America:

1. America is capitalistic and greedy - yet half of the population is subsidized.

2. Half of the population is subsidized - yet they think they are victims.

3. They think they are victims - yet their representatives run the government.

4. Their representatives run the government - yet the poor keep getting poorer.

5. The poor keep getting poorer - yet they have things that people in other countries only dream about.

6. They have things that people in other countries only dream about - yet they want America to be more like those other countries.

That, my friends, pretty much sums up the USA in the 21st Century.

Get out and vote and set this country back on its course!


8 posted on 04/26/2014 8:18:02 AM PDT by Grampa Dave ( Herr Obama cannot divert resources from his war on Americans!)
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To: Grampa Dave

Great Post!


9 posted on 04/26/2014 8:20:12 AM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Pontiac
This is what happens when stupid people are allowed to vote.

Oh, yes - the "rich people" will stay put in Illinois for the tax-raping...

10 posted on 04/26/2014 8:20:26 AM PDT by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: from occupied ga
Worshipers in the Church of Envy.

Kneel at the altar of theft.

11 posted on 04/26/2014 8:22:38 AM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Pontiac
To all those in LIB-asshat Freak states: LEAVE WHILE YOU CAN! There is no hope for them.
12 posted on 04/26/2014 8:25:04 AM PDT by hal ogen (First Amendment or Reeducation Camp?)
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To: Pontiac
They follow Pilate not Christ.

Christ sacrifice himself for us.. but they see it as Pilate sacrifice Christ for them.

It changes Christ from a self sacrifice Savior to a scapegoat pick by Pilate the state to pay

All they care is someone else gets nailed to the cross to pay their debts

13 posted on 04/26/2014 8:35:12 AM PDT by tophat9000 (Are we headed to a Cracker Slacker War?)
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To: kiryandil
This is what happens when stupid people are allowed to vote.

Stupid no, foolish and ill-informed yes.

Most of the people who vote for these taxes think that the money will be put to good use. Rush calls them low information voters. If you don’t pay attention to the news of the day or if you only pay attention to the Liberal media you will get the idea that government actually does a good job of improving people’s lives.

Oh, yes - the "rich people" will stay put in Illinois for the tax-raping...

For much of history the rich did tolerate high taxes because their factories were tied to a particular city and moving was very expensive. Today technology has overcome that obstacle. The rich are becoming mobile in a way that was impossible in the past.

Tax and spend politicians had better wake up and smell the swamp that they have been living in because their high tax cities and states are sinking in that swamp of debt they have created.

The rich are smart enough that know they no longer need to live in the swamps and the sunny states of low taxes are looking pretty good these days.

14 posted on 04/26/2014 8:36:56 AM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Pontiac

I wonder if the phrase “Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s goods” rings a bell with any of them.


15 posted on 04/26/2014 8:51:17 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Grampa Dave

Hate to bust your bubble, 60+ years ago the US was not in such a dire state. Why? We had a well paid middle class. If you did not go to college, but good with your hands, you can get a good factory job. Today we went down the road of globalism and free trade. Result, skills Americans had are taught to foreign workers to replace them. 1980’s factories close, middle class offered only service jobs. Now high tech gone global. Engineering and software skills were taught and transfered to China and India in the 1990’s, and when these foreign workers achieved skills at or near parity to US tech workers, jobs flew overseas. Now upper middle class can join the middle and working middle class in lower income and standard of living. Want to be rich? Be born into a rich family; become a celebrity (music, movie, sports) possess a unique rare high tech skill; or start your own company in an area not dominated by existing corporate America. Other then that be ready to serve in a servioe job. Only hope US has is fracking, but fracking cannot replace all the high paying middle class jobs lost to globalization and free trade. Other option is leave the US and go to Asia where all the money in the world is flowing to. Great leaders of great nations never sell or teach their rivals skills to compete against them. Unfortunately we are ruled by 1 percenter who cares only about their bonuses and self. They will sell their mothers for a percent of the action. Atleast the captains of industry of the 19th Century (Rockefellar, Carnegie, etc etc etc) remember they were Americans. Not this new bunch of “American” CEOs, lobbyists and gov officials. Go to China, Japan, Korea, Taiwan etc etc, no Asian will volunteer to be a lobbyist to our business interests to undermine their own nations industries. We are the only ones that do that for a six figure salary. Until we clean out our society of such thinking as well as corrupted population, we will remain as slaves while the few on top make tons of money at our expense.


16 posted on 04/26/2014 8:54:39 AM PDT by Fee ( Big Gov and Big Business are Enemies of America)
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To: Fee

The current IL flat income tax and exemptions are the only thing that is holding the IL tax base together. I know several retired snowbirds who keep their IL house and residency just because the income tax is relatively modest. Change that and lots of retired rich folks will leave IL. The state will become bluer and poorer.


17 posted on 04/26/2014 9:04:28 AM PDT by Oldexpat
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To: Pontiac

Wonder what they think of taxing church property. I know , first amendment. Nonetheless , expose their hypocrisy.


18 posted on 04/26/2014 9:05:34 AM PDT by gusopol3
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To: DuncanWaring

I think in their churches that bell’s clapper was lost long ago.


19 posted on 04/26/2014 9:06:26 AM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Pontiac

Apparently.


20 posted on 04/26/2014 9:15:11 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Fee

You didn’t burst my bubble.

Your rant sounds like a progressive on steroids.

Don’t bother responding. I stopped talking to progressives, liberals and the dissatisfied ones about 3 decades ago.


21 posted on 04/26/2014 9:15:50 AM PDT by Grampa Dave ( Herr Obama cannot divert resources from his war on Americans!)
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To: Pontiac
Brian Burch, the president of Catholic Vote, an Illinois advocacy group, put it another way: "They're substituting the state for God."

An apt description of the modern liberal. They worship government and want its approval for their aberrant lifestyles (gay marriage), want it to provide for their every need (health care and other redistribution programs) and protect them from everything they hate or fear (guns, global warming, Christianity). It is collective narcissism.
22 posted on 04/26/2014 9:23:07 AM PDT by LostInBayport (When there are more people riding in the cart than there are pulling it, the cart stops moving...)
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To: Pontiac
Tax the rich,to feed the poor...
23 posted on 04/26/2014 9:25:23 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Stalin Blamed The Kulaks,Obama Blames The Tea Party)
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To: Pontiac

Where is the line between rich/not rich?
If its annual income is it gross or adjusted net?
Net worth?

Living in Illinois this is important to me!

I may have won the lotto!
I could be declared rich!!!


24 posted on 04/26/2014 9:28:34 AM PDT by DUMBGRUNT
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To: Pontiac

25 posted on 04/26/2014 9:30:57 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; We need a second party!)
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To: Pontiac
Rev. Hawking told me, "minimum wage earners," not the wealthy, "are the real job creators."

One has to be beyond stupid to believe this.

26 posted on 04/26/2014 9:31:06 AM PDT by OldPossum ("It's" is the contraction of "it" and "is"; think about ITS implications.)
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To: OldPossum
Rev. Hawking told me, "minimum wage earners," not the wealthy, "are the real job creators."

One has to be beyond stupid to believe this.

No not stupid. For a Leftist it is an article of faith. Just as with any religion Leftism has certain beliefs that can not be proven in the real world. These beliefs are the foundation of religion.

It is another article of faith that taking money out of the private sector, running that money through the government bureaucracy and dribbling that money back out in to the economy in the form of entitlements stimulates growth.

And atheist think that Christians are deluded.

27 posted on 04/26/2014 9:52:25 AM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Pontiac
For much of history the rich did tolerate high taxes because their factories were tied to a particular city and moving was very expensive. Today technology has overcome that obstacle. The rich are becoming mobile in a way that was impossible in the past.

LOL! Don't tell the goobermint - it'll take 'em twenty years to figure it out.

Then, it will be a raft of federal felonies for a rich person to move from the Blue state that's milking them...

28 posted on 04/26/2014 9:57:04 AM PDT by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: Pontiac

...Their goal: replacing the state’s long-standing flat income tax with a new, progressive “Fair Tax.”

Here in Massachusetts, The Liberals have tried many times to do just this. Each and every time, the voters have defeated the proposal hands down. Hopefully the good people of Illinois will do the same if it gets that far.


29 posted on 04/26/2014 9:57:27 AM PDT by Howindependent (A Liberal has no concept of reality.)
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To: Fee
high paying middle class jobs lost to globalization and free trade.

That big wave has passed. The coming big wave you'll be crying worse about is advanced robotics and automation. These are the good old days so at least try to enjoy them.

30 posted on 04/26/2014 10:37:01 AM PDT by Reeses
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To: Pontiac

Faith in Action has a completely different meaning at my church:

Faith in Action

Details

This program is designed to help the sick, elderly, or convalescent parishioner when they are least able to help themselves. This program is also there to share in the joy of new life. New mothers can often use an extra hand when they bring a baby home. Since recovery often depends on the support of others, this program can help when families are unavailable. In this way we can truly live out the commandment to “Love one another as I have loved you.”

The goals are to:

Link various social concern/service ministries [HANDS, Funeral Luncheon Guild, Friendship Angels Visitation Ministry, Ministry to the Sick & Nursing Homes, Parish Nurse and Health & Wellness programs] through a central contact point so that we can continue to reach out and assist as many fellow parishioners as possible.
Expand our communication efforts to let parishioners know that we are there to help them and so that each organization is aware of what services the parish has to offer and who to refer them to.
What we will be able to do (providing we get volunteer support):

MEALS : Provide meals on a temporary basis for parishioners who have recently been hospitalized, had a new baby, or are adjusting to a medical situation.
SHOPPING : Small grocery orders, pharmacy pick ups, necessary purchases.
TRANSPORTATION : Taking people to doctor appointments, treatments, physical therapy.
SUPPORT/PRAYER : Call or visit with someone in need of support, listening to fears or concerns; pray for someone in need.
BREAK RELIEF : Offer breaks to caregivers of elderly, handicapped, or young children.
LIGHT HOUSEKEEPING : Perform light housekeeping chores such as dusting, vacuuming, changing a bed or doing a load of laundry.
SIMPLE HOME REPAIRS : Perform easy home repairs or maintenance type tasks.
YARD TASKS : Perform yard chores such as leaf raking, snow shoveling, grass cutting.
COMMUNION CALLS : Bring the Eucharist to people on a weekly basis.
PRAYER SHAWLS : Prayer shawls are made to provide physical and spiritual comfort for people who are sick, homebound or in nursing homes. The recipients are prayed for as the shawls are made.
WHAT WE NEED PARISHIONERS TO DO:

Tell us of someone who has any of the above needs.
Volunteer to help out in one of the above mentioned areas – if we each do a little then we can reach out to many.


31 posted on 04/26/2014 11:53:16 AM PDT by rwa265 (Love one another as I have loved you, says the Lord.)
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To: rwa265
Yep

That is the way that Christian values are supposed to be put to work.

Voluntary Charity expressed from one person to another, not compulsory charity extorted by the strong arm of government; extorted from one person to the government and then to another person where the giver and the recipient never meet.

32 posted on 04/26/2014 12:12:24 PM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Fee
Today we went down the road of globalism and free trade

Utter hogwash. What killed our economic progress was unions, protectionism, welfare "redistribution," burdensome government regulation, progressive taxation that punishes the achievers, and of course the power of government to distort the marketplace by rewarding the politicians' buddies/contributors. Just to name a few. globalization and free trade had nothing to do with it. But I don't want to keep you too long. I'm sure you have a union meeting to attend

33 posted on 04/26/2014 12:30:17 PM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: from occupied ga

During the 1970’s we left our car market open for Japan to romp about while they passed laws to prevent our cars from coming in. Why did we do that? Simple, as the Japs got rich they needed places to invest and park their money. US politicians/gov officials salivated at post gov careers in Jap funded investment funds, Wall Street bankers salivated at the commissions for servicing the Jap money, translate more lobbyists against protecting any US industry from Jap competition. Today the process is repeating itself. Arab money neuters anti Islamic remarks and Chinese money mutes anti Chinese sentiments nor remarks. The few on top will get rich from it, while everyone else will be sold down the river and anyone else who is working will be taxed to keep the unemployed on food stamps and etc. As Perot once said, the US gov and elites are the best thing anyone with money can buy. Real Americans face two big enemies - big gov and big business.


34 posted on 04/26/2014 12:52:46 PM PDT by Fee ( Big Gov and Big Business are Enemies of America)
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To: Pontiac
Rev. Hawking told me, "minimum wage earners," not the wealthy, "are the real job creators."

I'd appreciate it Rev, if you could point out just 1 or 2 examples out of the myriad instances where this phenomenon occurs...

35 posted on 04/26/2014 1:00:21 PM PDT by jonno (Having an opinion is not the same as having the answer...)
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To: Fee
During the 1970’s we left our car market open for Japan to romp about while they passed laws to prevent our cars from coming in

You conveniently forget that there was a massive QUALITY gap between the detroit stuff of the 70's and the Japanese vehicles. GM at the time had over 50% of the market and was fat dumb and complacent about it. They would give in to any union demands kicking the can down the road. They only VERY reluctantly addressed the quality issue over the last 40 years. No Japanese at the time would even WANT to buy American cars. No, good buddy, globalization and free trade is a good thing except maybe for buggy whip makers.

36 posted on 04/26/2014 1:03:26 PM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: from occupied ga

Who taught the Japanese how to make better cars? Who taught the Chinese how to make electronics and write software as well as American IT workers. Unions did not drive the US factories out of US. Unions drove factories into right to work states. Free trade made foreign labor available and helped US factories move out of US. NAFTA was the starting mechanism but it did not start well. Mexican workers did not do so well. But China stepped in and proved otherwise. All the US corporations did was use the Mexican blueprint to move but substitute Mexico with China. Twenty five years ago a Chinese worker could not solder a printed circuit board nor manage a modern factory. US corporations were more then willing to step in and help them close the skill gap. Today Apple sells you a smart phone for $ 300 and pays the Chinese factory $ .75. At the same time they cry a river how they cannot make it in the US because the profit margins are sooooo slim they barely make. Gee they pay the Chinese factory $ .75 and pocket $ 299.25 and that is a slim profit margin. Ever been to Silicon Valley where these companies exist and witness what it is like to operate on slim margins. Hitech facilities are like multi billion dollar Star Trek campuses with modern glass, concrete and metal palaces. Workers work to the sound of modern fountains of water with modern multi million sculptures and art surrounding. Lunch is organic food free to the workers plus all the gourmet coffee one can drink. Does this look like shoe string slim profit margin operation to you??!!!! Here is the work force myth of high tech. High paying jobs for Americans if we can get more of Apples, Googles, etc etc etc. Only high paying person on campus are the founders, exec staff, core skill Americans (that are not available from overseas), good youthful looking techies geared for tech marketing (hired for looks and image). The bulk of the workers who hold jobs that many typical IT American college grads can hold are being occupied by H-1B foreign Indian and Chinese workers who must work for the company for 7 years at 1/3 US salary. Point this out and you are called a racist. Now you wonder why your kids out of college with IT degress cannot find work (unless he or she has the hip look and hired for tech marketing)!!! So we wipe out manufacturing with free trade and an empty promise of a bright future in high tech!!! What BS!!!!!! Many freepers will defend this, and here is the biggest irony many of these IT owners and workers vote for Obama and Democrats. I will also point out that Reagan won by a huge margin with blue collar Dems. Free trade about killed that support. Now some in the GOP want amnesty for illegal immigrants and more H-1B workers for corporate America!!!!


37 posted on 04/26/2014 1:18:48 PM PDT by Fee ( Big Gov and Big Business are Enemies of America)
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To: jonno
I'd appreciate it Rev, if you could point out just 1 or 2 examples out of the myriad instances where this phenomenon occurs...

I am sure he could not come up with a single example.

The Lib’s ridiculous theory is that minimum wage earners spend every penny they earn so that their money is immediately put back in to circulation as opposed to the rich who hoard their money.

The Libs of course totally ignore the fact that few people get rich by hoarding money, especially in today’s economy where saved money loses value to inflation rapidly.

The rich are rich and stay rich by investing money. Invested money creates jobs and earns a return on that investment.

But even money just kept in a bank account stays in circulation because banks lend that deposited money to those who borrow that money. So the Libs theory is facetious and simply foolish.

What is particularly foolish about this theory is that if everyone spent every penny they earned immediately the country would be the most miserable third world hell hole imaginable because there would be no economic growth. Such a country would be no be no more than a subsistence culture. Those living there would live hand to mouth.

But you probably knew that.

38 posted on 04/26/2014 2:07:22 PM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Pontiac

You are, of course, correct in asserting that it is not a logical conclusion on the part of the good pastor because there’s no knowledge base (i.e., economics theory) that supports such a statement. It is, as you say, an article of faith but is it religion or ideology? Hard to say, really hard to say. from my perspective.

I always have thought of leftism as an ideology, ground into the its adherents’ little malleable “minds” somewhere during their development but it seems to be to differ substantially from religion. I am a religious person and I have always thought of religion as belief in a God who created and oversees the world; attached are moral codes which one must obey to find favor with God. An economic/political system, such as liberalism doesn’t seem to me to be any equivalent.

But I may be wrong. Many Freepers have pointed out where I’m wrong and it tends to humble someone. So, I’ll throw out how I see it and grant that you may have the better argument.


39 posted on 04/26/2014 2:27:14 PM PDT by OldPossum ("It's" is the contraction of "it" and "is"; think about ITS implications.)
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To: OldPossum
I am a religious person and I have always thought of religion as belief in a God who created and oversees the world; attached are moral codes which one must obey to find favor with God.

I guess it depends on the definition religion.

Since what are considered some of the largest religions in the world do not have an associated deity, such as Buddhism, I can think of Liberalism as a religion.

Liberalism defines its adherents’ view of the world despite ample evidence of the detrimental effects of the implementation of that world view. The adherents of Liberalism also actively proselytize and impose strict discipline on their fellow adherents. I consider Liberals to be much like Jehovah Witnesses in their organization’s strict doctrinal discipline. Those who stray can face shunning as the most lenient punishment. However the faithful can commit grave crimes and still be held up as saints.

Liberalism may not be in the strictest sense a religion but certainly has most of the trappings of a religion.

40 posted on 04/26/2014 2:49:18 PM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Pontiac
It sickens me to see the Christian faith and the Bible subverted to pick the pockets of tax payers to enrich Unions or anyone else

When will these people accept that if it isn’t voluntary it isn’t Christian charity.

Sorry. If you put your faith in government you will always be disappointed.

Indeed. Makes you wonder just who these "religious" groups are praying to.

Sister needs her sugar
To get her through the day
She doesn't have the money
But always got a way to pay
It's 2:07; it's time to sell some Ghetto Heaven...




41 posted on 04/26/2014 3:12:47 PM PDT by rdb3 (Get out the putter, this one's on the green.)
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To: LostInBayport; Howindependent; GOPsterinMA; fieldmarshaldj; Impy; AuH2ORepublican; sickoflibs
>> Brian Burch, the president of Catholic Vote, an Illinois advocacy group, put it another way: "They're substituting the state for God." <<

>> An apt description of the modern liberal. They worship government and want its approval for their aberrant lifestyles (gay marriage), want it to provide for their every need (health care and other redistribution programs) and protect them from everything they hate or fear (guns, global warming, Christianity). It is collective narcissism. <<

>> Here in Massachusetts, The Liberals have tried many times to do just this. Each and every time, the voters have defeated the proposal hands down. Hopefully the good people of Illinois will do the same if it gets that far. <<

Not to worry, "States rights" freepers have "explained" to us clueless fools who are wary of state government that states have been completely powerless since the 17th amendment and completely subservient to the feds, so the poor helpless states need to "reclaim" their power by repealing the 17th. Until then, they have no power and can do absolutely nothing without the fed's permission. Mark Levin says so, and we need to read all his books and learn the "facts" since he's never wrong.

So all this tyrannical stuff my state governments does on its own to completely control every facet of our lives must be a figment of our imagination.

42 posted on 04/26/2014 11:27:44 PM PDT by BillyBoy (Looking at the weather lately, I could really use some 'global warming' right now!)
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To: Fee
You're entitled to your opinions, but you're NOT entitled to false facts (otherwise know as lies) to support them. Just take the smartphone numbers - totally wrong. When you buy a smart phone from one of the big 2 or the medium 2 and pay $300 for it, that smart phone is billed to the telecom by Apple at $649 with the telecoms hoping to make up the difference in service charges before you drop out and quit paying your bill. SO you're numbers are wrong by more than 100% and you didn't even know who pays what charges. The rest of you "facts" are equally suspect.

Further are you so completely ignorant that you think that the Chinese are incapable of industrial progress without US help. Let me enlighten you on that score too. Last summer I had to hire a PhD mathematician. NOT A SINGLE SOLITARY AMERICAN WHO APPLIED FOR THE JOB WAS EVEN CLOSE TO QUALIFIED. I gave every candidate a written test (the same test for all). The highest scoring American candidate got 4 out of 25 right. The top 3 candidates were Chinese. The top candidate (got all 25 right) had a visa problem and I couldn't hire him. The next candidate (female - don't tell me about gender wage inequality) held out for more money than I could offer, and the third took a job closer to where his fiancee worked. I took my fourth choice (also not an american, but not Chinese either.) So don't give me BS about other countries relying on American expertise. We graduate too many "gender studies," and black studies and not enough mathematicians and engineers.

43 posted on 04/27/2014 2:34:32 PM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: from occupied ga

Twenty five years ago a typical Chinese cannot solder a PC board nor run a modern factory. Who went over there eagerly to teach them?????? Try US corporations. Who trained their engineers and scientists during that period. US colleges and universities. When the Chinese reached a technical proficiency who fine tuned them to go from second generation knowledge to first generation knowledge. US corporations. Had a buddy of mine who was Chinese American worked for ATT. He was selected in early 2000 to go to Shanghai and help teach the Chinese how to set up and write software for cellphone tower. I ask him if he realize he would set up the Chinese and put out an entire ATT division of workers supporting older systems, and potentially in the future take out the rest of the ATT workers on first gen systems. He told me if he did not go, his management hinted he would be on the lay off list if the next downsizing occurs. He did his job, and within 2 years an entire ATT division of workers were laid off. Today thanks to ATT China has a good cellphone system and software engineers creating products against our products, and worst military technology for the PLA to aim missiles at our forces. You corporate bastards armed our enemies while blinded by the filth of lucre. Now you are coming up with new excuses to cover your traitorous crimes by claiming the backward Communist Chinese came out with the advances on their own and today you have no choices but do business with them, and hire them. You know what I tell every America born Indian and Chinese college grad. Do not claim you are a US citizen, just leave it blank and every corporation will grant you an interview. So far it has worked. Your companies problem is not only salary but the fact an American worker knows his rights. Hire the foreign one because he will work at 1/3 salary and fearful to stand up to any managerial abuse. I willing to make a bet if the gov audit your PhD mathemetician, he is probably spending 80 percent of his time doing what a typical American math grad would be doing. Remember, if you bring him in as an H-1B doing work that no American can do, but it turns out otherwise, try lying on an application for starters. If I was king for the day every American hitech firm would be audited to determine if the H-1B worker is doing what he is suppose to be doing. Otherwise it is lying on the H-1B application. I would not be fining the company, why should shareholders be stuck with the costs. Rather I would find the recruiter, HR or first line manager who signed off on the H-1B application and hold him personally liable for the crimes and fines. IAW if you are willing to go to jail and go broke for your corporation’s scheme, be my guest. By the way your jail would not be the one reserved for white collar criminals, you will share it with a mean guy name Bubba.


44 posted on 04/27/2014 3:11:57 PM PDT by Fee ( Big Gov and Big Business are Enemies of America)
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To: Fee

Take your lies and fiction and shove them. You’ve wasted enough of my time.


45 posted on 04/27/2014 8:02:16 PM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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