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U.S. electricity prices may be going up for good
The Los Angeles Times ^ | April 25, 2014 | Ralph Vartabedian

Posted on 04/27/2014 1:50:38 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

Experts warn of a growing fragility as coal-fired plants are shut down, nuclear power is reduced and consumers switch to renewable energy.

As temperatures plunged to 16 below zero in Chicago in early January and set record lows across the eastern U.S., electrical system managers implored the public to turn off stoves, dryers and even lights or risk blackouts.

A fifth of all power-generating capacity in a grid serving 60 million people went suddenly offline, as coal piles froze, sensitive electrical equipment went haywire and utility operators had trouble finding enough natural gas to keep power plants running. The wholesale price of electricity skyrocketed to nearly $2 per kilowatt hour, more than 40 times the normal rate. The price hikes cascaded quickly down to consumers. Robert Thompson, who lives in the suburbs of Allentown, Pa., got a $1,250 bill for January.

"I thought, how am I going to pay this?" he recalled. "This was going to put us in the poorhouse."(continued)

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Government; US: California
KEYWORDS: coal; economy; electricity; energy
Beginning in 2008, then-Candidate Obama led a charge designed to increase the cost of nearly every kind of energy Americans currently consume. At the time, people chose to ignore his stated goal of limiting consumption, but the quotes are now coming home to roost. “Under my cap and trade plan,” Obama said, “electricity rates will necessarily skyrocket.” He even threatened to bankrupt anyone stupid enough to build a coal plant, saying that “if somebody wants to build a coal plant, they can — it’s just that it will bankrupt them, because they are going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that’s being emitted.”
1 posted on 04/27/2014 1:50:38 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; All


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2 posted on 04/27/2014 1:52:34 PM PDT by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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To: musicman

Burning wood , Banned ,Candles Outlawed


3 posted on 04/27/2014 1:54:28 PM PDT by molson209 (Blank)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Obama: My Plan Makes Electricity Rates Skyrocket (IN HIS OWN WORDS): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlTxGHn4sH4


4 posted on 04/27/2014 1:55:19 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: musicman

Of course, everyone knows energy prices must necessarily skyrocket. Obama told us.


5 posted on 04/27/2014 1:56:20 PM PDT by andyk (I have sworn...eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.)
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To: molson209
It's still ok to burn government minions to stay warm.

/johnny

6 posted on 04/27/2014 1:57:10 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: vladimir998

Thanks, zero...you have helped us all...higher electicity, you want $10.00 per gallon gasoline.....you have done a swell job. of being the worst president in history!


7 posted on 04/27/2014 1:58:04 PM PDT by joyce11111 (he police minute)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
The federal govmint is the enemy of the American people.

Time for some change.

8 posted on 04/27/2014 1:59:42 PM PDT by Doomonyou (Let them eat Lead.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
The GAME MUST continue... until it's DONE..
UNless the elite political class is pulled down...
click for VIDEO--


9 posted on 04/27/2014 2:06:29 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: musicman

“How am I going to pay this [$1,250 January electric bill]?” Robert Thompson whined.

Just exactly what did you think would happen when you voted for a communist pie-in-the-sky unicorn fancier, Robert? He told us what he was going to do. (I’m just assuming he voted for the dictator because he lives in blue collar PA)


10 posted on 04/27/2014 2:08:53 PM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: ProtectOurFreedom

“WHERE’S MY FREE S__T?”


11 posted on 04/27/2014 2:09:41 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
U.S. electricity prices may be going up for good

There is no maybe about it.

I work for an electric utility. They have shutdown perfectly good BASE LOAD coal burning power plants because the EPA has made it too expensive to run them.

Our area has been hit hard by deindustrialization so electricity demand has hit hard yet. But more shut downs of older plant (used when peak load is expected).

During Obama’s war on coal 20% of our coal generation has been or will be decommissioned. In order to take these plants off the tax rolls they must be rendered unusable so they can never again be operated.

So if we should have a resurgence in the economy we must build new generation facilities. Obama would want us to build supposedly environmental friendly Renewables. Too bad that Renewables are by far the most expensive electric generation available by at least 300%.

The War on Coal is in reality the WAR ON AMERICA.

12 posted on 04/27/2014 2:12:01 PM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Pontiac

As you know, renewables aren’t dispatchable. The TRUE capital cost of a renewable plant is the generating capacity PLUS the storage capacity. Or, if you prefer, the renewable generating capacity PLUS the cost of conventional fossil capacity to take its place when the sun isn’t shining and the wind isn’t blowing.

Either way, the honest apples-to-apples, all-in systems cost of renewables is probably 4x conventional plants, roughly 2x for basic cost of the generating capacity and another 2x for having to build 100% backup which is either storage or fossil.


13 posted on 04/27/2014 2:19:46 PM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: ProtectOurFreedom
As you know, renewables aren’t dispatchable.

Some renewables are dispatchable but they are also very expense and emit “Green House Gases”

Waste Burners are dispatchable. Those that burn industrial waste and municipal waste could be dispatchable but are in my experience very unreliable because they are shut down for repairs more than they are operating.

The only waste burners I know of that are reliable is those that burn lumbering waste. But their generation is typically used entirely onsite.

The rest of your post is dead on.

14 posted on 04/27/2014 2:31:59 PM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

No worries, the ‘Almighty Government’ will subsidize your higher cost.


15 posted on 04/27/2014 2:32:00 PM PDT by Java4Jay (The evils of government are directly proportional to the tolerance of the people.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

How does someone run up a $1250.00 electric bill in a month, who isn’t already well off enough to pay for it?


16 posted on 04/27/2014 2:33:47 PM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
When the regulations go into effect next year, 60 gigawatts of capacity — equivalent to the output of 60 nuclear reactors — will be taken out of the system

Wrong comparison, since we're not building nukes. What's the equivalent in windmills or square feet of Reid property sporting solar?

17 posted on 04/27/2014 2:35:43 PM PDT by NonValueAdded (Operating out of weakness? Imagine if he was working from a position of strength!)
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To: NonValueAdded

We are probably the only country on the planet that has intentionally destroyed itself so utterly completely over the last decade. What a mess.


18 posted on 04/27/2014 2:41:01 PM PDT by DonaldC (A nation cannot stand in the absence of religious principle.)
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To: Pontiac

Could that coal capacity be brought online quickly once Obama is out of office?


19 posted on 04/27/2014 3:00:28 PM PDT by tbw2
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To: Pontiac

My advice is hook a generator to your bicycle if you want to watch tv and pedal that thing all you 0 voters. You folks put yourself here, shame you took us with you.
I was in the coal business and still have kin in it and in the utility business and they were saying the same thing. Then they were told to shut up or lose their jobs.
It is true, the War on Coal is really the War on the Middle Class.
How much longer must we wait?


20 posted on 04/27/2014 3:03:26 PM PDT by Foundahardheadedwoman (God don't have a statute of limitations)
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To: JRandomFreeper

They might make pretty good feedstock for biodiesel.


21 posted on 04/27/2014 3:23:50 PM PDT by Trod Upon (Every penny given to film and TV media companies goes right into enemy coffers. Starve them out!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Obama’s energy policy is working as planned. His word was “skyrocket”.


22 posted on 04/27/2014 4:01:04 PM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.)
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To: joyce11111

... and he kisses Americans to sleep with the higher costs....making industry more uncompetitive on a global basis, destroying more jobs and industry. Why dosn’t he bankrupt the chinese who are happy with coal and its emissions.

Like he’s going to stop them, India, Brazil and all the developing turd world.

He sure is! At America’s expense!!!


23 posted on 04/27/2014 4:25:42 PM PDT by himno hero (hadnuff)
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To: musicman

“...utility operators had trouble finding enough natural gas to keep power plants running...”

Some conservatives think we should start exporting natural gas for the purpose of hurting Russia. I’m sure when grandma’s heat gets shut off, the American people will understand.


24 posted on 04/27/2014 4:33:13 PM PDT by Monmouth78
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

This is by design.

Liberals want to make life expensive. This has nothing to do with protecting the environment.

If you don’t like it, you can turn off the lights. They’re ok with that, too.


25 posted on 04/27/2014 5:22:32 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: ansel12

The story says $2.00 per kilowatt hour....could that be right?

https://www.pplelectric.com/at-your-service/electric-rates-and-rules/rate-calculator.aspx

What is “General Service With Demand” and why is it so much more expensive than Residential Standard Rate or Residential Thermal Storage?


26 posted on 04/27/2014 5:35:41 PM PDT by scrabblehack
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To: JRandomFreeper
For a period of time, I can keep warm with an approved for indoor use propane heater with propane bottles. After that, wood in fireplace which isn't efficient. To use for all time, two heavy duty zipped sleeping bags. Have outdoor fireplace and wood and burn trash to keep warm in daytime if it comes to that.

Would use solar and rechargeable batteries for light and battery fans in summer.

I think this could happen, that the price will be so high, we can't use electricity except for fridge and electric cook stove and TV and internet so can get news. No central air conditioning - that is what drives up cost in Texas in summer. I grew up without it, we just had fans. Would hate to go back to that, but we may have to.

27 posted on 04/27/2014 5:41:41 PM PDT by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. Going Galt is freedom.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I tell u, the people doing this are nuts


28 posted on 04/27/2014 5:45:22 PM PDT by ncpatriot
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To: ncpatriot

And they want us all driving electric (coal-powered) cars?!!!!!! We are really on the brink, this country. Every time I see one of those f-ing o’nazi bumper stickers I want to run them off the road.


29 posted on 04/27/2014 6:24:03 PM PDT by Phillyred
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To: tbw2

No

The plants will be permanently disabled so that the company can take them off their property tax bill.


30 posted on 04/28/2014 6:46:38 AM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: molson209

Shiver in the dark, peasant!


31 posted on 04/28/2014 6:47:36 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: ncpatriot

nuts?

No, not nuts.... EVIL.


32 posted on 04/28/2014 6:48:13 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Electricity generation by source:


33 posted on 04/28/2014 7:00:30 AM PDT by Wyatt's Torch
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To: Marcella

I grew up with swamp coolers in our windows. Humidity or a little over 100 degrees and they kind of quit working. We had to go back to that. About 9 years ago we put 2 on our house to help keep our electric bill down when it was $600 because of running the air conditioner. Electric prices have gone up considerably since then and our bill is right at $600 using the swamp coolers.
Guess the next thing is to as you say....just turn everything off and die.


34 posted on 04/28/2014 7:24:10 AM PDT by sheana
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To: sheana
“Guess the next thing is to as you say....just turn everything off and die.”

I wouldn't die - I'd use my solar panel and recharger and use rechargeable batteries to run battery fans which I have, and flashlight lanterns which I have, and battery run portable TV and radios and a short wave receiver. When I became a prepper, I decided the worst thing that could happen was to lose power for a very long time and I started prepping to replace what I could that power would take away.

35 posted on 04/28/2014 8:07:22 AM PDT by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. Going Galt is freedom.)
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To: sheana

What about a heat pump? How would the cost of the heat pump for cooling compare? I don’t know how well a heat pump cools in really hot weather, though.


36 posted on 04/28/2014 8:11:01 AM PDT by Eva
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To: Marcella

All any fan (let alone battery fans) do in 114 heat is blow that hot air in your face. Know the feeling on your face when you open a hot oven? That is what walking outside feels like here in the summer.


37 posted on 04/28/2014 8:13:55 AM PDT by sheana
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To: sheana

“All any fan (let alone battery fans) do in 114 heat is blow that hot air in your face. Know the feeling on your face when you open a hot oven? That is what walking outside feels like here in the summer.”

I have used them in hot Texas August/September after hurricanes which took away power for days. With the regular battery fans, I used a wet cloth to wet my face, neck and arms and turned on the fan. That reduces the ambient air heat a number of degrees and cools me. I also have battery misting fan bottles that sprays the water with the fan going on the bottle and that cools me.


38 posted on 04/28/2014 8:29:29 AM PDT by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. Going Galt is freedom.)
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To: Marcella

Days is different than 3 months. Besides, we don’t live in a third world country! Why should we have to live like we do? I have been in Mexico where they had holes in the roof to let the cooking fire smoke out too. Why do I have to live that way?
I am not a prepper. I have about 1 mnths worth of food and toilet paper stored. I figure after that we are all totally screwed anyway. Preppers are starting to remind me of sanctimonious Prius drivers with their ‘I can survive anything’. Why the heck should we have to?!?


39 posted on 04/28/2014 9:03:50 AM PDT by sheana
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Every time I think of Zero, I think of Nicolae Ceaușescu.
40 posted on 04/28/2014 1:19:48 PM PDT by TexasRepublic (Socialism is the gospel of envy and the religion of thieves)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Will our new GOP Congress reverse the EPA’s War on Coal?


41 posted on 04/29/2014 8:52:02 PM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD

Probably not.

The ‘rats will call them bad names if they do.

Remember in 1995 the ‘rats still ran Congress even though the republicans had a numeric majority.


42 posted on 05/01/2014 4:06:38 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
And apparently the common people and the poor want it this way, since their politicians are the ones who push it.

I'm both common and poor. Did I miss the memo?

43 posted on 05/01/2014 4:09:20 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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