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Ukraine nationalists rally to commemorate Nazi SS division
ITV ^ | Last updated Sun 27 Apr 2014

Posted on 04/28/2014 8:30:11 AM PDT by kronos77

Ukrainian nationalists in western Ukrainian city of Lviv have held a rally in commemoration of a Nazi SS division created in 1943, despite a ban asking them to stop.

One attendee said "This march is to commemorate the Galician division, which had nothing to do with the divisions of the Waffen SS. Their oath of allegiance was for Ukraine. They are our heroes and that is why we honour them every year."

A woman shouts to the crowd during the Lviv rally. Credit: APTN Past marches have led to clashes between marchers and Soviet army veterans and left-wing groups.

Also called the Galician division, the group was formed to exclusively fight "Bolsheviks", but it still creates tension between political groups and affiliations today.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: nazi; obama; putin; ukraine
Ah!, Free European Ukraine! /sarcasm....off.
1 posted on 04/28/2014 8:30:11 AM PDT by kronos77
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To: kronos77

Really tough call for the Ukrainian people back then.

Fight for Hitler or fight for Stalin.

Not exactly an easy choice.


2 posted on 04/28/2014 8:32:13 AM PDT by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: kronos77

Looks modest compared to the 2013 celebration.
http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-divided-over-wwii-legacy-100702056.html


3 posted on 04/28/2014 8:32:37 AM PDT by Psalm 144 (FIGHT! FIGHT! SEVERE CONSERVATIVE AND THE WILD RIGHT!)
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To: kronos77

But how do they feel about "the Negro" and slavery?

4 posted on 04/28/2014 8:33:09 AM PDT by caligatrux (...some animals are more equal than others.)
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To: kronos77

I have a book on that Division buried somewhere in my collection.


5 posted on 04/28/2014 8:37:27 AM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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To: kronos77

Looking at the available photographs of 14th SS “Galicia” Division, their uniform seems to be a curious mix. Their officers’ caps bore the eagle gripping the swastika, and the “Death’s Head” emblem. The arm sleeves also bore the eagle/swasitka empblem. However, the collars did not display the SS runes common to the other Waffen SS units. Many of the divisional emblems were Ukrainian nationalist in appearance.

I’d say this division was primarily composed of western Ukrainian nationalists who despised the Soviet Union, and no doubt also had a strong anti-semitic character. A number of the same sort of people served the Germans in the death camps.

The division had a good combat record despite the Soviets belief they were a weak spot in the German line. Most of the division was destroyed along with the rest of German 13th Army Corps in the Brody pocket in July 1944.


6 posted on 04/28/2014 8:39:33 AM PDT by henkster
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To: kronos77

from Russian TV ?

Celebrating Lenin or Stalin any better?


7 posted on 04/28/2014 8:41:03 AM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: kronos77

Ooops. I don’t think you want to play this game:

http://maidantranslations.com/2014/03/09/arrested-self-proclaimed-governor-gubarev-turned-out-to-be-an-inveterate-russian-nazi-photos/


8 posted on 04/28/2014 8:44:29 AM PDT by lodi90
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To: GeronL

1. Its from ITV
2. Never, ever a man with sound mid will compare Hitler and nazis with anything. They were the worst of the wort. Murderers. Ukrainian nazis raped and killed 100,000 Poles in WWII with several hundred thousands Jews and Russians.


9 posted on 04/28/2014 8:45:38 AM PDT by kronos77 (Kosovo is Serbian Jerusalem. No Serbia without Kosovo.)
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
I think that at the time, the choice for them wasn't too difficult. Stalin had starved 7 million Ukrainians to death in the winter of 1932/1933. They knew about the gulags and the general terror of the secret police. The Nazis were willing to fight Russia, so for a country which had already suffered the deaths of MILLIONS of its citizens to communism, the choice for the Ukrainians seemed obvious.

We understand in retrospect what a terrible choice they had.

10 posted on 04/28/2014 8:46:03 AM PDT by Enterprise ("Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire)
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To: kronos77
"This march is to commemorate the Galician division, which had nothing to do with the divisions of the Waffen SS.

The unit was the 14th SS Waffen Grenadier Division "Galizien". It was definitely a Waffen SS unit.

11 posted on 04/28/2014 8:47:58 AM PDT by 17th Miss Regt
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To: henkster

“The division had a good combat record despite the Soviets belief they were a weak spot in the German line.”

Their superiors found them lackluster”

“These Ukrainians are soft inside and fickle, and lack much in comparison to fighting German soldiers.”
~ Heinrich Himmler

“Either the unit is reliable or it isn’t reliable. At the moment I can’t even create new formations in Germany because I have no weapons. Therefore it is idiocy to give weapons to a Ukrainian division which is not completely reliable.”
~ Adolf Hitler

http://www.axishistory.com/axis-nations/1295-14-waffen-grenadier-division-der-ss-ukrainische-nr-1

From the MREs sold off into the black market and the turning over of bases, vehicles, weapons and material in the East, Hitler’s successors in title might have been advised to study up on their catspaws.


12 posted on 04/28/2014 8:53:53 AM PDT by Psalm 144 (FIGHT! FIGHT! SEVERE CONSERVATIVE AND THE WILD RIGHT!)
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To: Enterprise

Yes and three biggest mistakes Hitler made when he invaded the USSR were:

1) Not providing his troops with winter clothing.

2) Not taking Moscow when it was doable.

3) Not treating well the local populations who were severely brutalized under the Soviet regime.

Had Hitler studied Napoleon as carefully as he studied Frederick the Great, he probably would have avoided invading the USSR altogether.


13 posted on 04/28/2014 8:53:59 AM PDT by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

I think the single biggest mistake he made was declaring war on America. He should have issued a weaselly statement about supporting Japan in its struggle against Western Imperialism and left it at that.


14 posted on 04/28/2014 8:58:47 AM PDT by Enterprise ("Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire)
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To: henkster

I’m sure you know the SS had stringent recruitment standards leading up to the war: Height, `racial purity, no fillings in teeth, etc. By late `44 those standards were a lot lower. Hitler was confounded to learn that there was an Indian SS battalion, using resources but not doing much but R&R.
Which isn’t to say the Galicians didn’t fight well, they did but they weren’t even close to the 1st SS, the Liebstandardte or Peiper’s `Blowtorch Battalion’.
A lot of foreign SS were fighting as late as the battle for Berlin, not wanting to surrender.
Did the Galicians get the blood-type tattoos under their left arms, do you know? Often that’s how the Allies ID’d SS, and some were immediately shot by the Soviets.


15 posted on 04/28/2014 8:59:20 AM PDT by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: all armed conservatives)
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To: Psalm 144

The article I read indicated they resisted bitterly and desperately in the Brody Pocket. Some of the German attitude may be directed toward low standards of discipline, which was common in their volunteer units. And also to the general German tendency to look down on other races (although they had great respect for the Finns and the Spaniards of the “Blue Division.”)

But I would expect that when encircled, the Galicians would fight hard. There was no place to retreat/run away to, and capture was not an option.


16 posted on 04/28/2014 9:05:12 AM PDT by henkster
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To: kronos77
Never, ever a man with sound mid will compare Hitler and nazis with anything

I think that you're absolutely correct, re: Godwin's law.

But, I also think that history is extremely instructional. For instance, I recently finished Churchill's "The Gathering Storm" - his memoir covering the early 30s to 1941. It reads like something straight from today's headlines, with Obama playing the part of Chamberlain, and Putin playing the part of Hitler.

Truly, there's nothing new under the sun. Pols (and a whole lot of others who never bother to crack a history book) would do well to rememeber that, IMO.

17 posted on 04/28/2014 9:06:08 AM PDT by wbill
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To: wbill

Pols = Politicians. For clarification...


18 posted on 04/28/2014 9:09:14 AM PDT by wbill
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To: Enterprise

Yup, another idiotic move that had no rhyme or reason.

It was dumb enough to take on the gigantic USSR.

But taking on the world’s largest industrial nation, well beyond the reach of his panzer divisions and air force was simply insane.


19 posted on 04/28/2014 9:09:25 AM PDT by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: wbill
But - than a man can compare Obama, and EU with Hitler and Third Reich - Trying to assimilate Ukraine into EU -just like Austria in Reich - but this time, Putin is not Chamberlain - but Churchill?
20 posted on 04/28/2014 9:19:55 AM PDT by kronos77 (Kosovo is Serbian Jerusalem. No Serbia without Kosovo.)
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To: kronos77

Meanwhile, the Kremlin has Lenin on ice and on display.


21 posted on 04/28/2014 9:23:36 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: kronos77

No, Putin is more like Hitler.

Try again.


22 posted on 04/28/2014 9:28:27 AM PDT by canuck_conservative
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To: kronos77

Is Gubarev a Ukrainian Nazi? The Russian Foreign Ministry is a supporter of him and just demanded his release today:

http://www.mid.ru/brp_4.nsf/0/D03359B5BA8590AF44257CC8004F60A3

Your silence on this issue is very telling. You keep good company, FRiend.


23 posted on 04/28/2014 9:33:07 AM PDT by lodi90
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To: kronos77

Good at using brutality to put down unarmed civilians,poorly armed partisans, and hunting down Jews, lousy in actual combat. At Brody, they broke and ran away.

Brutally put down the Slovak Uprising in 1945, burning some 90+ villages to the ground, and executing 5,000+ Partisans Jews and Roma, and sending thousands of others to concentration camps.

The divisions own German Commanders considered them brutish and unreliable.


24 posted on 04/28/2014 9:47:19 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

Bad time to bring this up—playing into Putin’s Propaganda.


25 posted on 04/28/2014 10:22:55 AM PDT by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll)
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
>>>>>Yup, another idiotic move that had no rhyme or reason. It was dumb enough to take on the gigantic USSR.But taking on the world’s largest industrial nation, well beyond the reach of his panzer divisions and air force was simply insane<<<<

There was a reason, but the reason was insane. Hitler actually believed his handlers that there will be a peace treaty between Nazi Germany and British Empire and that he will get the British colonies as the spoils of war.

The complete story of Rudolf Hess is still under wraps.

26 posted on 04/28/2014 10:56:34 AM PDT by DTA
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To: DTA

Yes....Rudolf Hess’s flight to the UK still remains one of the great mysteries of WWII. Was Hess insane or was he on a mission sanctioned by Hitler? Hess’s behavior at the Nuremberg Trial would seem to indicate the former and it also probably saved him from the hangman’s noose as well.


27 posted on 04/28/2014 12:28:48 PM PDT by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
William Shirer’s account of the events in the “Rise and Fall of the Third Reich” indicate that Hitler was genuinely surprised by Hess’ flight to Scotland and he was furious. He immediately ordered the arrest of all of Hess’ aids by the Gestapo and he quietly ordered that Hess be shot immediately if he was captured by German troops.
28 posted on 04/28/2014 2:33:47 PM PDT by HenpeckedCon (What pi$$es me off the most is that POS commie will get a State Funeral!)
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To: HenpeckedCon

That would indicate that Hess was acting as a lone ranger and that his mission had no chance for success and therefore he was not playing with a full deck.

His performance at Nuremberg was either one of the best acting jobs of the war, or an accurate reflection of his true mental state.


29 posted on 04/29/2014 6:56:22 AM PDT by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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