Skip to comments.Groysman: Ukraine shuts off Crimea's water tap
Posted on 04/29/2014 3:16:47 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
Ukraine has stopped supplying water to Crimea through the North Crimean water channel, deputy Prime Minister for Regional Policy Volodymyr Groysman told the Kyiv Post on April 25. Until Russia and Ukraine sign an agreement regulating water supplies to Crimea, Groysman said, water supplies from mainland Ukraine will be cut off.
Crimea relies on the rest of Ukraine for 80-85 percent of the water that it consumes.
"It used to be an integral system, but because of the occupation of Crimea, there is now a question who will pay for the water?" Groysman said.
(Excerpt) Read more at kyivpost.com ...
Not a nice tactic. And if it’s only about who pays for the water, there’s something about the gas bill the Ukraine owes which is waaaaaaaaaaaay more than the water bill.
Russia is using “Not a nice tactic” by refusing to discuss contracts or payment for deliveries of water, so it appears the Ukraine has no better recourse than to deliver water when contracts and payment are forthcoming.
What “gas bill” are you talking about? You perhaps mean the contract which Russia abrogated with an illegal invasion and thereby voided. You know, the contract wherein Russia (1) guaranteed the territorial integrity of the Ukraine and its territory in the Crimea and (2) guaranteed a discounted price for the natural gas deliveries in exchange for (3) a naval base and other bases on Ukrainian territory in the Crimea in limited numbers and for a limited period of time. If that is the “bill” you are talking about, you should already be aware that Russia's invasion of the Ukraine created a state of belligerency or war against the Ukraine, and that belligerency gave the Ukraine the right under international law to suspend and/or void all contracts between the two states pending the end of the belligerency and reestablishment of normal diplomatic relations. All belligerent assets seized are to be administered on behalf of the belligerent power by a trustee, and any war reparations may then be satisfied from the funds resulting from the sale and liquidation of those assets at the end of the war. The Ukraine's war reparations obtainable from Russia include compensation for damages and penalties for the illegal Russian occupation and annexation (alienation) of the Crimea. So, if you want to talk about who owes how much to whom, you have a lot of work left to do to add up all of the war reparations Russia is liable to owe to the Ukraine for the criminal acts against the Ukraine.
An act of war.
Putin’s “Casus Belli”.
“An act of war.”
Yes, Russia’s invasion and annexation of the Crimea and invasions of the rest of the Ukraine were “an act of war” and grave violations of international law of a kind which resulted in the earlier International Military Tribunal (IMT) hanging a number of the planners and perpetrators. If Russia as the aggressor belligerent wants to take deliveries of water on behalf of the Ukraine, there is nothing to stop Russia from entering into the contracts through the trustee of Russia’s assets being held pending the payment of war reparations. Russia has the ability and the responsibility to turn the water tap on or off by simply paying the relatively trivial water bill like any normal customer, instead of holding the Crimean customers hostage to promote false war propaganda.
Putins Casus Belli.
Russia already stole the Crimea, and now you want to give Russia some kind of right to steal the water for the stolen Crimea. Such behavior on your part qualifies you as a pro-criminal Russian propagandist.
Calm down, geez. I am just saying that Putin could use it as his Casus Belli, not that I agree with it or support Putin. Ukraine better be prepared to back up the checks they’re writing here.
If you can make the case Russia is racist then we should go to war, its up to you.
LOL ! I used to come here for for serious discussion, these days mainly for entertainment :))
Neither is sticking Ukraine for gas, which the Russians already did. Neither is flaking on the Russians for payments, which the Ukrainians already did.
And we are back to 1930. Starve them into submission.
I'm reading all of the stuff people are posting here and they're leaving out one detail. Russia has not cut off gas to Ukraine even though the bill is unpaid. So where's the justification?
Is it just me, or is this Kiev coup gov incapable of good decisions?
“Not a nice tactic. “
This is often a declaration and cause of war in the past.
I can't get excited about either side here. I just know this is all Obama’s fault.
The same water that they denied cutting off a few days ago???
“Is it just me, or is this Kiev coup gov incapable of good decisions?”
Not only is the coup government not making good decisions, they are purposefully antagonizing the big guy with all the guns next door.
They are being pushed hard by the Soros/Omidyar/USAid-financed hard-right radicals, as well as by the Obama administration, their financier.
It seems as if they are TRYING to prod Russia to action, and that is most likely coming from Washington.
Same low life folks from the 2004 Revolution.
IF the US cuts off oil to Japan there might be a war. Oh, wait...
I wrote that suspicion yesterday and got cyber-shouted down. I suspect that what Soros and the US don't want is an election and that mess in Kiev voted out.
I'm a charter member of the Hard Right. I've never seen Soros/Omidyar/Obama at any of the meetings.
First “coup government” ever, that announces elections within 45 days.
Thanks for introducing this timely and valuable news site.
Are you still up to those kinds of comments?
Yup. and all the hyperpatriots running around the Russia threads spoiling for the good old says of the Cold War intentionally ignore that FACT when they puff out their chests so very impotently.
This whole thing BEGAN when our State Sept tried running an Occupy Ukraine scam.
Most Americans, like myself, want to stay out of this. Sanctions is all we should do, although it is probably too little, too late. No arms supplies, though: Obama’s track record at any kind of interventionism, action, acting, etc on foreign policy is horrible at best (look at Libya (Benghazi), Syria, Egytp).
RINOs don’t want people to take this stance, but Israel voted in the UN to basically stay out of this.
“The same water that they denied cutting off a few days ago???”
You either (1) failed to read the aritcle or (2) read the article and deliberately misrepesdented what you read. The actual statement was “will be cut off”, and it DID NOT say ARE cutoff:
“Groysman said, water supplies from mainland Ukraine will be cut off. [....] Interestingly, the State Water Resources Agency denies the stoppage of water supplies to Crimea through the North Crimean channel. It only admits that since April 28 the speed of water flow has slowed it decreased to 11.1 cubic meters per second from 13 cubic meters per second on April 23.”
The agency emphasizes that Crimea still receives water, though there are no legal grounds for that. Since April 28, Crimea started taking away 35 percent more water, according to the agency.
"It used to be an integral system, but because of the occupation of Crimea, there is now a question -- who will pay for the water?" Groysman said.
“IF the US cuts off oil to Japan there might be a war. Oh, wait...”
Given how Japan was planning to wage war upon the United States sometime between 1941 and 1944 regardless of whether or not the United States aided and abetted Japan’s aggressions with continued supplies of war material, the false accusation served as false propaganda for Japan. Now you are reviving the Japanese false proopaganda from the Second World War to use on behalf of the criminal acts by Russia threateneing a potential Third World War.
Just shut it off on principle. They stole your land. Stop the water.
Not withstanding this actually happened awhile back, if your house was on fire or you were really, really thirsty would you rather have water or gas?
“that is most likely coming from Washington.”
What’s the end game?
So far as I can tell, that water comes from a large reservoir on the Dniepre (Dnieper) River, located in a not pro-Russian part of Ukraine. Possibly Ukraine is trying to force Moscow’s hand, to go into a region the Russians would find very costly to hold.
Another angle (I do not know if it is true) is “Russian militants raided through water pumping installations, they laid mines so now Ukrainian technicians can’t access those installations.”
If that’s case...
Google mapping shows most of the water to Crimea would have to come from two channels: E105 (already looks dry on Google - exact image date unknown) and E97 (still has water in it as of whenever the sat photo was taken.)
Maybe some Freeper has access to more recent images?
The Crimeans should pray for rain.
Eh, well, there’s a major problem developing upstream, anyway...
According to the news articles the channels are closed part of the year in the Winter, so they would be expected to be dry during the routine seasonal closures. We also don’t know whether or not the water was flowing at a rate that was low enough to result in sections of the channel going dry in the higher elevatons until enough of the water accumulated in the lower elevations to spill over the tops of the higher elevations. In other words, just because sections of the channel are dry at a particular time does not necessarily indicate the flow of water from the source has been altogether shut off.
Crimea is not valuable territory. It has no water, no oil, no gas, no farmland. It’s a barren rock. Crimea will cost Russia more than it’s worth. Putin stole this territory not because it is strategic or valuable, but because it is a symbol of Russia’s lost glory and greatness. Putin’s Russia is not a great civilization however, but a revanchist, ethnonationalist dictatorship ruled by a stupid murdering thug.
The problem is just you. For example, there is no coup gov in Ukraine. The interim Ukrainian government is just the Ukrainian rada that was democratically elected in October 2012. Yanukovych wasn't overthrown. He fled to a foreign enemy since he knew impeachment was inevitable.
If you can't even get this right, what makes you think you can judge anybody's decision making?
I agree with him. The Pro-Kremlin trash is getting very tiresome on this forum. It is indeed pro-Criminal every time these people repeat the claim that Ukraine is run by Nazis and was toppled in a "coup." I haven't met a single one of these people who've bothered to reply to the fact that the interim Ukrainian government is only the same Ukrainian Rada that was democratically elected 2 years ago. Similarly, they keep claiming that Kyiv is being run by Right Sector. Right Sector has a membership of 2,000 to 10,000 members tops nationwide, in a country with a population of 45 million people. They have no members in the Ukrainian Rada. They poll in the 1 to 2 percentile, right next to Svoboda. Meanwhile, Russia is a dictatorship where, without any doubt, people are murdered for opposing the regime, with a state controlled media, and these guys keep posting trash from Russia Today.
I say, call it for how we see it: The promotion of Kremlin propaganda is pro-criminal!