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Pa. high court rules police no longer need warrant to search vehicles
The Washington Times ^ | 04-30-2014 | Jessica Chasmar

Posted on 04/30/2014 3:09:09 PM PDT by PaulCruz2016

Pennsylvania police officers no longer need a warrant to search a citizen’s vehicle, the state’s Supreme Court ruled Tuesday.

Drivers in the state used to be able to refuse a warrantless search, but now their vehicles can be subject to search when a police officer determines there is “reasonable probable cause” to do so, the Intelligencer Journal reported.

The high court’s ruling, passed on a 4-2 vote, is being called a drastic change in citizens’ rights and police authority, the paper said.

“This is a significant change in long-standing Pennsylvania criminal law, and it is a good one,” said Lancaster County District Attorney Craig Stedman. “This case gives the police simpler guidelines to follow and (it) finally and clearly renders our law consistent with established federal law.”

“It is a ruling that helps law enforcement as they continue to find people in possession of illegal drugs,” said New Holland police Lt. Jonathan Heisse.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; US: Pennsylvania
KEYWORDS: pascotus; pennsylvania; police; searchwarrant; vehiclesearch; warrant; warrantless
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1 posted on 04/30/2014 3:09:09 PM PDT by PaulCruz2016
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To: PaulCruz2016

This is terrifying.


2 posted on 04/30/2014 3:20:51 PM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: rarestia

This had damn well better be a rocket to SCOTUS!


3 posted on 04/30/2014 3:22:33 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Fight Tapinophobia in all its forms! Do not submit to arduus privilege.)
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To: freedumb2003

Actually this is in line with federal law according to the article.


4 posted on 04/30/2014 3:23:57 PM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: PaulCruz2016

“It is a ruling that helps law enforcement as they continue to find people in possession of illegal drugs,” said New Holland police Lt. Jonathan Heisse.

The so-called war on drugs has done more to undermine the Bill of Rights than any external threat. All a tyrant needs is a pervasive, insidious ‘enemy’ to justify any violation of liberty under the pretext of ‘security’.

Screw security. I can defend mine.

Radical Islamic threat? Let’s play cowboys and Muslims.
Drug threat? Let’s play cowboys and criminals.

But the first thing the tyrant wants to do is disarm the citizen - in the name of ‘security’.

Security for whom?


5 posted on 04/30/2014 3:24:43 PM PDT by LucianOfSamasota (Tanstaafl - its not just for breakfast anymore...)
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To: PaulCruz2016
“It is a ruling that helps law enforcement as they continue to find people in possession of illegal drugs,” said New Holland police Lt. Jonathan Heisse.

Well there you go, drug warriors. It's worth losing your 4th amendment rights when you leave your home, because they will be able to arrest more drug users. After all, you can trust the police to determine what is "reasonable cause". Why bother a judge?

6 posted on 04/30/2014 3:29:31 PM PDT by Hugin
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To: Hugin

Yep, every drug warrior (so called) is going to agree with this.

Count on it. /s


7 posted on 04/30/2014 3:31:46 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: freedumb2003
This had damn well better be a rocket to SCOTUS!

Not a chance. This is merely putting Pennsylvania law in line with (bad) federal law.

Way back in 1925, SCOTUS held that a search of an automobile stopped on a public highway (the case involved a search for bootleg liquor) requires probable cause, but does not require a warrant, on the theory that the car would be driven away and the evidence destroyed before a warrant could be obtained. Carroll v. United States, 267 U.S. 132 (1925).

The correct result would be to allow the police to stop the car, but not search it, while they get a warrant. But SCOTUS is unlikely to intervene here, given 89 years of bad federal law.

8 posted on 04/30/2014 3:34:02 PM PDT by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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To: DoughtyOne; Hugin

Well, I’m pretty much a drug warrior and I think this is awful. They have stripped a person of any privacy while in their car. It’s pretty frightening what is happening in the U.S. these days.


9 posted on 04/30/2014 3:35:24 PM PDT by raybbr (Obamacare needs a death panel.)
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To: DoughtyOne

That’s kind of like Obama voters saying they disagree with his policies. One follows the other, and plenty of folks warned them.


10 posted on 04/30/2014 3:38:04 PM PDT by Hugin
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To: raybbr

So do I. Frankly it angers me considerably.

If there’s an avenue available for the search to take place, keep it in place.

Don’t make every citizen defenseless on any whim that comes along. This is draconian.


11 posted on 04/30/2014 3:38:38 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: raybbr

“Well, I’m pretty much a drug warrior and I think this is awful”

Why? You’ve gotten exactly what you asked for whether you knew you were asking for it or not. Now suck it up.


12 posted on 04/30/2014 3:38:49 PM PDT by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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I no longer have any reason which would warrant me to visit or spend any money in PA.


13 posted on 04/30/2014 3:40:22 PM PDT by novemberslady
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To: Lurking Libertarian

This isn’t about drugs, it’s about gun confiscation. Didn’t they say they would confiscate all the guns, well, no warrant needed and God help them if they are moving and have to transport what they own.

Zero did drugs, and that is the last thing on his mind. However getting rid of the opposition, well that’s more likely. The liberals will do anything to get the advantage over patriotic Americans.


14 posted on 04/30/2014 3:40:26 PM PDT by Kackikat
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To: Hugin

It’s kind of like there being a law on the books where a warrant can be requested, and a judge saying they no longer need one.

That’s what it is.

His ruling is wrong, and we should unite on this issue to oppose him.

Instead we get more division...


15 posted on 04/30/2014 3:40:56 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: PaulCruz2016

The answer is simple:
All persons who have their vehicles searched against their wishes by a law enforcement officer, or officers without a warrant, and said officer, or officers finds no evidence of a crime, Shall be Statutorily entitled to the Maximum allowable monetary award available in Civil Small Claims Court, payable by the officer, or officers personally, forthwith.
Failure of any person to pay damages in full immediately upon judgement, shall deem them a danger to themselves and the community, and they shall be Prohibited from Owning, using, or Possessing Any Firearm or Ammunition.

Problem Solved.


16 posted on 04/30/2014 3:44:13 PM PDT by eyeamok
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To: PaulCruz2016

Get out!Lock the door and tell them to go FK themselves!Tape the whole thing and sue their azzes when they don’t find ab
anything!


17 posted on 04/30/2014 3:45:59 PM PDT by Renegade
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To: PaulCruz2016

Easily resolved with a change to PA law or Constitution. Problem is, toadies at the state level are unlikely to do much.


18 posted on 04/30/2014 3:52:26 PM PDT by RKBA Democrat (Folks, the electoral fix is in.)
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To: PaulCruz2016
Drugs and terrorism: the two common vehicles used by the statists by which civil rights are stolen from the citizens.

"Its for the children and for your safety," they pronounce.

NO thanks. I'll take my chances.

19 posted on 04/30/2014 3:53:05 PM PDT by bkopto (Free men are not equal. Equal men are not free.)
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To: Renegade

Ummm, locking the doors and telling the cops to go FK themselves would, in and of itself, doubtless constitute the reasonable probable cause to search the vehicle.


20 posted on 04/30/2014 3:55:43 PM PDT by Mr. Lucky
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To: Mr. Lucky

Fk em ! Cops suck. Supreme Court already ruled they have no obligation to protect you !


21 posted on 04/30/2014 4:00:58 PM PDT by Renegade
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To: Renegade

I see.


22 posted on 04/30/2014 4:05:37 PM PDT by Mr. Lucky
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To: PaulCruz2016

NAZIs all..


23 posted on 04/30/2014 4:07:57 PM PDT by dinodino
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To: PaulCruz2016

Seems that a vehicle is covered under the state’s new Castle Doctrine as applied to the 2nd Amendment, but NOT covered with respect to the 4th. How does that square?


24 posted on 04/30/2014 4:08:37 PM PDT by Sylvester McMonkey McBean
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To: PaulCruz2016; fatima; Fresh Wind; st.eqed; xsmommy; House Atreides; Nowhere Man; South Hawthorne; ..
PA Ping!

If you see posts of interest to Pennsylvanians, please ping me.

Thanks!

25 posted on 04/30/2014 4:10:18 PM PDT by P.O.E. (Pray for America)
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To: Mr. Lucky

Glad I opened ur eyes to the present police state under the Golden Oreo!


26 posted on 04/30/2014 4:12:47 PM PDT by Renegade
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To: Mr. Lucky

U do know that PA ELECTED AN ANTI-GUN lIBERAL female as Attorney General in the last election.


27 posted on 04/30/2014 4:17:07 PM PDT by Renegade
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To: Renegade

I’m not quite sure what that has to do with this thread, but OK.


28 posted on 04/30/2014 4:21:19 PM PDT by Mr. Lucky
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To: PaulCruz2016

“Reasonable probable cause” ???

How exactly does this differ from “I just fu**ing feel like it” ? /s;)


29 posted on 04/30/2014 4:21:37 PM PDT by Frank_2001
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To: Mr. Lucky

A LIBERAL ANTI GUN Attorney GENERAL in a FIREARM FRIENDLY STATE?If Corbett gets beat by the Amish hordes in Phila and P burg,Pa WILL BE HEADED DOWN A SLIPPERY SLOPE!COPS ARE UNDER WHIMS OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL


30 posted on 04/30/2014 4:27:49 PM PDT by Renegade
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To: PaulCruz2016

The courts, police, are OBVIOUSLY the enemies of the citizenry. This is an absolute outrage. I hope it goes to the US Supreme Court, but even then... We are living in interesting times.


31 posted on 04/30/2014 4:33:47 PM PDT by LambSlave
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To: PaulCruz2016

It just goes to show you... The war on drugs is actually a war on the constitution and the Bill of rights. It’s time to stop the war on Drugs and defund the police state.

And yes, I know all about drug abuse, my own family suffered from it. It makes no difference now, the whole country is now suffering because of a few ‘idiots’.


32 posted on 04/30/2014 4:34:24 PM PDT by The Working Man
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To: Renegade

Hey
If you’re not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about. right?
Unless you:
own a gun
vote republican
Don’t agree with the current administration. ect

SHOW ME YOUR PAPERS


33 posted on 04/30/2014 4:36:48 PM PDT by hans56 ( Audit the FED)
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To: Lurker
Why? You’ve gotten exactly what you asked for whether you knew you were asking for it or not. Now suck it up.

LOL You have no idea what "I've asked for"...

34 posted on 04/30/2014 4:39:46 PM PDT by raybbr (Obamacare needs a death panel.)
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To: hans56

3 Strikes!I’m Out!But CCW permit will cover the weapon!


35 posted on 04/30/2014 4:46:43 PM PDT by Renegade
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To: hans56

Hope you do not have your pet dog with you either.
BANG!


36 posted on 04/30/2014 4:57:58 PM PDT by minnesota_bound
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To: novemberslady
.. visit or spend any money in PA

And pray tell, what flawless state do you hang your hat ?

Not that I have a nanogram of respect for this totalitarian edict, but ask merely for contigency purposes of anyone looking to relocate to an area of high horses ? !


Their time will come . . .

             

37 posted on 04/30/2014 4:59:58 PM PDT by tomkat
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To: raybbr

Yes, I do. This is it. You simply didn’t think your support of it all the way through to it’s logical conclusion.

Just before a society, any society, collapses completely into dictatorships there’s always a large number if dip wads standing around whining “But this isn’t what I meant!”.

You wanted a drug war. Well, you got one.

Enjoy.


38 posted on 04/30/2014 5:04:19 PM PDT by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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To: tomkat
You call it a high horse? I call it a choice.

If they begin to search my vehicle in my state without a warrant or my permission, I will fight them in every way I can find

And btw, careful you don't fall off that horse you just rode over on.
39 posted on 04/30/2014 5:09:38 PM PDT by novemberslady
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To: PaulCruz2016
I no longer trust any government entity/elected representative/LEO/court to be concerned about anything but their best interests.

The Constitution is no longer a restraint on government.

40 posted on 04/30/2014 5:12:28 PM PDT by rllngrk33 (Things will continue getting worse until at least January 2017.)
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To: novemberslady
You're my new hero .. swoon
41 posted on 04/30/2014 5:15:52 PM PDT by tomkat
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To: PaulCruz2016

Hmm... I’m still looking for the satire tag but can’t find it anywhere


42 posted on 04/30/2014 5:26:54 PM PDT by Svartalfiar
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To: The Working Man

Agreed. We need to end this stupid “war on drugs.” It c$$osts us too much of our time, money and freedoms.


43 posted on 04/30/2014 6:49:22 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (Mom I miss you! (8-20-1938 to 11-18-2013) Cancer sucks)
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To: LucianOfSamasota

No, it’s a ruling that gives Police permission
to search my car for no good reason - we all
know what probable cause means ; When the facts
and circumstances would lead a reasonable
person to believe that a Crime has been committed
and that the actor is involved”. All this means is now
police can search my car for any reason they
make up and lie about. Only a $$$ lawyer can
help me now.

What’s next ? My bedroom.
No longer a free country or highway


44 posted on 04/30/2014 8:42:06 PM PDT by D331976 (Law abiding citizen)
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To: PaulCruz2016

45 posted on 04/30/2014 8:50:09 PM PDT by zeugma (Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened - Dr. Seuss (I'll see you again someday Hope))
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To: Lurker
Why? You’ve gotten exactly what you asked for whether you knew you were asking for it or not. Now suck it up.

Worth repeating. Drug warriors are a threat to the republic.

46 posted on 04/30/2014 8:51:34 PM PDT by zeugma (Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened - Dr. Seuss (I'll see you again someday Hope))
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To: eyeamok

which then leads to every unsuccessful search having evidence planted to frame whoever they decided to pick on that day.


47 posted on 04/30/2014 11:25:07 PM PDT by reed13k (For evil to triumph it is only necessary for good men to do nothings)
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To: Mr. Lucky

Ummm, locking the doors and telling the cops to go FK themselves would, in and of itself, doubtless constitute the reasonable probable cause to search the vehicle.


That’s the trump card isn’t it. Basically the Catch-22 - that’s some catch, that catch-22. It’s the best there is.


48 posted on 04/30/2014 11:30:28 PM PDT by 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
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To: PaulCruz2016

If you think you are safe from such a search.....just remember all those rules and regulations being written with little or no coverage?

If they search your car....they will find SOMETHING illegal.


49 posted on 05/01/2014 3:27:08 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi
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To: DoughtyOne

In PA, we have CCW, and open carry as well if you have the CCW.

Up until this moment, I mostly carry concealed.

No longer.

F*** ‘em.


50 posted on 05/01/2014 6:16:58 AM PDT by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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