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Ukraine Says That Militants Won the East (Where's that darn reset button?)
ny times ^ | 4/30/14 | By ALISON SMALE and ANDREW ROTH

Posted on 04/30/2014 8:16:29 PM PDT by tobyhill

It is by now a well-established pattern. Armed, masked men in their 20s to 40s storm a public building of high symbolic value in a city somewhere in eastern Ukraine, evict anyone still there, seize weapons and ammunition, throw up barricades and proclaim themselves the rulers of a “people’s republic.” It is not clear who is in charge or how the militias are organized.

Through such tactics, a few thousand pro-Russian militants have seized buildings in about a dozen cities, effectively establishing control over much of an industrial region of about 6.5 million nestled against the Russian border.

Day by day, in the areas surrounding the cities of Donetsk and Luhansk, pro-Russian forces have defied all efforts by the central government to re-establish its authority, and on Wednesday, Ukraine’s acting president conceded what had long been obvious: The government’s police and security officials had lost control.

“Inactivity, helplessness and even criminal betrayal” plague the security forces, the acting leader, Oleksandr V. Turchynov, told a meeting of regional governors in Kiev. “It is hard to accept but it’s the truth. The majority of law enforcers in the east are incapable of performing their duties.”

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 04/30/2014 8:16:29 PM PDT by tobyhill
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To: tobyhill

Neither the police nor the army want to be in the position of opening fire on their own people.

The Maidan regime’s legitimacy cannot be restored through the use of force. There needs to be a national dialogue.

And Ukrainians are still waiting for clear answers from Kiev about constitutional and economic reforms to rescue the country from the abyss.

Which is now facing it.


2 posted on 04/30/2014 8:26:05 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: tobyhill

The key word in this opus seems to be “stealth”.

It has worked so well Putin has no need to send his thousands of troops in.

Stealth. Hmmm......


3 posted on 04/30/2014 8:28:55 PM PDT by RitaOK ( VIVA CHRISTO REY / Public education is the farm team for more Marxists coming.)
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To: goldstategop

You mean, the election in three weeks, right?


4 posted on 04/30/2014 8:29:00 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

No I mean a government with representatives from all sections of the country and all the political forces to draft a new constitution and prepare a road map for a free market economy and fresh national elections.

This is imperative to get Ukraine back on its feet. The country is facing disintegration and bankruptcy. When the patient is dying, shooting him won’t bring him back to sound health.


5 posted on 04/30/2014 8:34:37 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop

a national dialogue with russia, the country that is busy taking it over?


6 posted on 04/30/2014 8:34:37 PM PDT by KOZ.
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To: goldstategop

imperative? how about russia stops attacking? or are you just too busy spreading russian propoganda to be bothered by people’s freedoms?


7 posted on 04/30/2014 8:35:41 PM PDT by KOZ.
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To: tobyhill
". . . efforts by the central government to re-establish its authority . . ."

They couldn't wait a few months for the already scheduled elections because they knew they wouldn't win which means they're nothing but self-appointed little tin gods who had a mob to surround the Parliament with before "asking" the Parliament to make them the "interim government". They have no authority and they know it.

Looks like for the Ukrainian people a bunch of jerks being knighted by the US and EU doesn't mean squat. If Ukrainians didn't elect them Ukrainians aren't going to pretend they're the government.

About the only card the Kiev Kiddies have left to play is "sabotage" of parts of the pipelines. They can blame it on Russians wearing cloaking devices so there will be a "desperate need" for foreign troops to come protect the pipelines the Kiev Kiddies.

8 posted on 04/30/2014 8:35:43 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: goldstategop
When the patient is dying, shooting him won’t bring him back to sound health.

Why get in the way of the Russians? They are doing a fine job of it.

9 posted on 04/30/2014 8:36:47 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: goldstategop
The Maidan regime’s legitimacy cannot be restored through the use of force. There needs to be a national dialogue.

Democracies establish "national dialogues" via election campaigns. Naturally, Putin is trying to short-circuit this "dialogue" by holding a rigged referendum before the election can be held at the end of May.

10 posted on 04/30/2014 8:36:48 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: KOZ.

This has nothing to do with Russia.

Its the result of Kiev’s incompetence and rulers who are out of touch with the country and who don’t know what they’re doing.

As I noted, people want answers about decentralization of power and turning the economy around and they’ve yet to receive them.


11 posted on 04/30/2014 8:37:14 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: Rashputin
You forgot to mention George Soros. Always mention Soros, it's in your Kremlin handbook.
12 posted on 04/30/2014 8:38:22 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: goldstategop

This has nothing to do with Russia.

13 posted on 04/30/2014 8:40:29 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: goldstategop

Russia taking over and occupying Ukraine has nothing to do with Russia?

Seriously...i’m convinced you don’t read your own posts.

or....do you believe the more you lie the more people will believe you?


14 posted on 04/30/2014 8:40:33 PM PDT by KOZ.
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To: KOZ.

People deserve freedom. They want an end to the rule of corrupt oligarchs and Soviet style central planning.

This is what is needed. Unfortunately, people are seeing in Kiev business as usual and the people who see themselves as being oppressed did the same thing yesterday.

I’m not defending their past actions. Ukraine cannot survive if people treat it like a political football for the benefit of whatever corrupt clique is ruling in Kiev.


15 posted on 04/30/2014 8:41:25 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: KOZ.

If you can show me the little men in green in the East, then we’ll say its due to foreign intervention.

What it looks like is local unrest reaching a boil. This has been happening for some time now.


16 posted on 04/30/2014 8:43:28 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop

Is Russia delivering freedom by occupying Ukraine?


17 posted on 04/30/2014 8:48:07 PM PDT by KOZ.
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To: goldstategop

local unrest? your kidding right?

are seriously pushing the BS that Russia isn’t instigating and influencing in Ukraine?


18 posted on 04/30/2014 8:49:17 PM PDT by KOZ.
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To: KOZ.

Again, where is the Russian army - the Russian occupation?

The locals don’t trust Kiev and Kiev doesn’t trust them.

And that is an issue for Ukrainians to resolve for themselves.


19 posted on 04/30/2014 8:51:13 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: KOZ.

Ask yourself why it would be in Russia’s interest to take over a bankrupt country it would have to finance from its own budget?

Ukrainians may be attracted to Russia’s welfare benefits but there is nothing else they like about Russia. And seriously, Russia doesn’t want to be the cow in that kind of relationship.

There is nothing to stop Russia from taking over Ukraine. Its just not an economically viable proposition.


20 posted on 04/30/2014 8:56:38 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: KOZ.

so what? when did this become more important than reducing government oppression at home in the US? And reducing deficits and debt?

How much will it add to our deficits and debt, for us to go to war in Ukraine?


21 posted on 04/30/2014 8:56:57 PM PDT by WilliamIII
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To: goldstategop

WOW...you can’t POSSIBLY believe your own BS!

Russia has always needed Ukraine for several reasons, land, access to the Black Sea...it’s the only reason Russia has killed and pillaged Ukraine. It’s why they wield the influence and the instigation in that country.

They occupy and destroy. Always have, and always will.


22 posted on 04/30/2014 9:01:37 PM PDT by KOZ.
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To: WilliamIII

they only people talking about war are Russians. they’ve already occupied a chunk of an independent country.


23 posted on 04/30/2014 9:02:16 PM PDT by KOZ.
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To: KOZ.

They already have access to the Black Sea.

Don’t forget Ukraine’s huge gas debt. Something Russia is not going to waive out of the goodness of its heart.

Again, you don’t take issue with the facts I mentioned. Of Russia does have interests in Ukraine but that’s because its a neighboring country.

Its fate would affect Russia. But none of this is exactly news. This is the way things are.


24 posted on 04/30/2014 9:07:04 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop

And you never answer the simple question of why you support and promote a tyrannical take over of a sovereign nation.

They have access because they marched in and annexed it. something a tyrannical government does.


25 posted on 04/30/2014 9:10:18 PM PDT by KOZ.
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To: KOZ.

“a national dialogue with russia, the country that is busy taking it over?”

I think a dialogue with their own citizens would go a long way. The different states are populated with people with vastly different viewpoints. The people of Eastern Ukraine and Western Ukraine have a long distrust of each other. The West wants nationalism and European ties. The East wants federalism and Russian ties.

It goes back many years. Joe Stalin intentionally starved millions(10+) of ethnic Ukrainians during the Holomodore. They will never forget that. Then the Ukrainian Nationalists(OUN) under Stepan Bandera sided with the Nazis days after Hitler invaded the USSR in WW2, even forming their own volunteer Ukrainian division of the SS. The Russians are still bitter about the betrayal when Hitler was killing their own. The nationalists killed their fair share of fellow Ukrainians, Poles, Jews and Russians too. They actually had their own little holocaust to purge people they feared would not support them. As many as half a million. Ethnic cleansing Ukrainian style. The people in the east will never forget that.

Since then the ultra nationalists have publically stated they want to purge all non ethnic Ukrainians from the country.

Now the Ultra Nationalists hold all important posts in the new Kiev government and imposed a 10% tax on the easterners to finance their efforts.

No wonder these people don’t get along. Too much bad blood. Too much mistrust. They don’t need a strong central government. It would be irresponsible. Sovereign states would be the best way to keep they from oppressing each other. Perhaps with time, things will improve.


26 posted on 04/30/2014 9:14:32 PM PDT by FreeInWV (Have you had enough change yet?)
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To: KOZ.
Realistically, that would be, “taking back the Crimea” not, “occupying Ukraine”. As painful as reality is for the propaganda crew, it's Ukrainians who don't accept the jerks in Kiev. Give it another week or so and cities in Western Ukraine will be going the same route.

The little tin gods in Kiev are in way, way, over their heads and can't keep track of their paperclips much less run the country. They're narcissists just like King Barry without the benefit of a solid bureaucracy that runs itself like we have. What they have is the same corrupt system they've loved ever since they became an independent country and the Kiev Kiddies don't even know who to bribe to keep it all running.

27 posted on 04/30/2014 9:30:00 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: goldstategop

Bingo -

I hope they get it settled before O’bummer and gang do something really stupid to get the new Benghazi revelations off the table - and thereby, start WW111


28 posted on 04/30/2014 11:18:56 PM PDT by maine-iac7 (Christian is as Christian does - by their fruits)
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To: 1rudeboy

The thing is that Soros is actually a KGB agent working for the Russians!


29 posted on 04/30/2014 11:35:03 PM PDT by Thunder90 (All posts soley represent my own opinion.)
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To: All
This is exactly what will happen in America if we don't seal our borders, the stealth takeover.
The left mocked Palin and even Romney over their claims of Russian stealth takeovers.
30 posted on 05/01/2014 4:18:48 AM PDT by tobyhill
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To: KOZ.

“they only people talking about war are Russians. they’ve already occupied a chunk of an independent country.”

Not true. By focusing on this far-away dispute over territory that has no impact on your freedom or mine, you are implying that the US needs to get involved. If that’s not what you’re implying, feel free to correct me. If it IT what you’re implying, man up and own your position. Also, tell us how much it will cost us to get involved militarily (either with troops or by arming troops in the Ukraine) - what will it cost the US in terms of more deficits, debt, borrowing from the Chinese, and raising taxes on Americans.


31 posted on 05/01/2014 10:15:03 AM PDT by WilliamIII
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To: Rashputin

Look at a map, Crimea is part of Ukraine. Russians attacked and took it occupied it. That is the inconvinient.

tin gods in Kiev? Kiev kiddies?

Why do you Russians insist on occupying Ukraine?

I thought Russia is such a great Christian nation, save slaughtering millions and imposing communism even more millions. Russians are pathetic egotistical tyrants. Now that is the truth.


32 posted on 05/01/2014 7:07:04 PM PDT by KOZ.
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To: WilliamIII

Man up?? LOL!! I guess you need to be a man to advocate for the destruction and disintegration of a country and it’s people.

You know damn well, there are plenty of ways to support the largest country in Europe and let them defend themselves against an oppressor.

your hardly a man if you advocate for death and destruction. a sad little boy, but hardly a man.


33 posted on 05/01/2014 7:09:07 PM PDT by KOZ.
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To: KOZ.

you’re just another big spending, big gov’t guy. Democrats want big spending on social programs in the US, guys like you want big spending on useless foreign adventures. Both ways, our deficits and debt and taxes grow exponentially


34 posted on 05/01/2014 8:48:29 PM PDT by WilliamIII
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To: WilliamIII

What the hell are you talking about?


35 posted on 05/01/2014 8:55:02 PM PDT by KOZ.
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To: WilliamIII

Isn’t there a May Day Parade you’re missing somewhere?


36 posted on 05/01/2014 8:55:39 PM PDT by KOZ.
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