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Ukraine crisis: Government forces 'move on Sloviansk'
BBC ^ | 2 May 2014 Last updated at 00:15 ET | BBC

Posted on 05/01/2014 9:22:46 PM PDT by Zhang Fei

Ukrainian government forces are reported to have launched an operation in the city of Sloviansk.

The city is a stronghold for pro-Russian separatists who are exerting increasing control over the eastern regions of the country.

Separatists in the city and Russian television channels are reporting that the city is being stormed.

News agencies report gunfire, explosions and a military helicopter firing on the outskirts of the city.

The BBC's Sarah Rainsford, in eastern Ukraine, has spoken to Russian separatists who says fighting is taking place at checkpoints on the outskirts of the city - but she adds there is no independent confirmation of this.

(Excerpt) Read more at bbc.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: rightsecgovtforces; russia; slavyansk; sloviansk; soros; svobodagovtforces; ukraine
Yet another skirmish in the struggle for Ukraine.
1 posted on 05/01/2014 9:22:46 PM PDT by Zhang Fei
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To: Zhang Fei

Looks like the war will start this week.


2 posted on 05/01/2014 9:34:13 PM PDT by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll)
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To: Forward the Light Brigade
Looks like the war will start this week.

Nobody knows if Ukraine will fight. If they do, and go after Russian units in the east and south, it will be interesting to see what Russian body counts are. These are the numbers (of GI dead) from Iraq:

Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Total
2003 0 0 92 80 42 36 49 43 33 47 110 48 580
2004 52 23 52 140 84 50 58 75 87 68 141 76 906
2005 127 60 39 52 88 83 58 85 52 99 86 68 897
2006 64 58 34 82 79 63 46 66 77 111 78 115 873
2007 86 85 82 117 131 108 89 88 70 40 40 25 961
2008 40 30 40 52 21 31 13 23 25 14 17 16 322
2009 16 18 9 19 25 15 8 7 10 9 11 3 150
2010 6 6 7 8 6 8 4 3 7 2 2 1 60
2011 6 3 2 11 2 15 5 0 4 4 2 0 54
2012 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1

We were losing dozens of men a month pretty much right after "Mission Accomplished". And these numbers were from an adversary (Sunni Arabs) that was at most, 20% of the Iraqi population (~25m in 2003).

3 posted on 05/01/2014 9:56:47 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Zhang Fei
How much you wanna bet Obama is running weapons to the Soviet separatists?

Anyways, noob Obama Vs competent, experienced Putin. I think its time to consider secondary protocols and head for backup quarters off the grid.

4 posted on 05/01/2014 10:12:30 PM PDT by TheArizona
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: Zhang Fei
Ukrainians must have a sufficient desire for freedom in order to earn our allied support and avoid becoming part of a new Russian group of slave nations. Poland earned it, and so have others.

IMF Warns Ukraine: Fight For The East Or No Money
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/3150908/posts


6 posted on 05/01/2014 11:22:36 PM PDT by familyop
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To: familyop

Well, I know some folk of Ukrainian descent here in the UK (they emigrated here post war). I can tell you there is an AWFUL lot of anti-Russian feeling in the Ukraine.


7 posted on 05/02/2014 12:24:15 AM PDT by Vanders9
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Comment #8 Removed by Moderator

To: Zhang Fei

My advice to the Ukrainians, don’t trust the American or Euro elite, talk a good fight but don’t sacrifice yourself just to die over some Eastern ex-Ukrainian dump of a city.


9 posted on 05/02/2014 4:27:57 AM PDT by junta ("Peace is a racket", testimony from crime boss Barrack Hussein Obama.)
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To: Zhang Fei

No one else seems to remember this, but I remember when the Iraq war took a terrible turn. It was right after a The Swimmer’s “quagmire” speech.


10 posted on 05/02/2014 4:59:18 AM PDT by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: Zhang Fei

Big problem with the comparison is that we were and are hamstrung by absurd ROE. The Russians, on the other hand, kidnap and murder people for saying something bad about Czar Putin. Genocide does wonders against rebels.


11 posted on 05/02/2014 5:06:23 AM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: junta

I second that advice. It’s best for everyone, except the corrupt governments and banks, if Ukraine just backs off.


12 posted on 05/02/2014 5:06:57 AM PDT by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: Ruprecht Jamieson
Residents of Sloviansk seem to be doing a good job defending their city from the onslaught, so far.

These aren't the residents of Slovyansk. They're Kremlin stooges run by Russian GRU.

13 posted on 05/02/2014 5:09:35 AM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: demshateGod

I think Ukraine should have the right, like any other nation, to defend its sovereignty from bandits.


14 posted on 05/02/2014 5:10:13 AM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Forward the Light Brigade
Looks like the war will start this week

It looks like the western temporary coup government will do whatever it takes to stop a referendum.

15 posted on 05/02/2014 5:12:07 AM PDT by grania
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To: demshateGod

Saddam had planned the Insurgency before Baghdad fell. It started at the end of Ashura which coincided with Easter Sunday, 2004. I was in the Shia south and the Shia residents were warning us during a trip to Najaf that Friday.


16 posted on 05/02/2014 5:22:01 AM PDT by Justa
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To: grania
It looks like the western temporary coup government will do whatever it takes to stop a referendum.

It looks like the Russians will do whatever it takes to stop a nationwide election in Ukraine, including schedule a rigged referendum, following by Russian annexation just two weeks before that election.

Green Ukrainian troops are learning on the job in this operation. Given that they are up against Russian spec ops, they will take casualties. However, since these spec ops personnel don't have the benefit of either air or artillery support until Russia officially invades, Ukrainian troops should be able to kill or capture all of them. It's only a matter of time. Overall, the Ukrainians need to put as many young men under arms with as much ammo as they can scrounge up as soon as possible. Once the Russians invade, conducting any kind of outdoor training will be difficult, since they will be under the threat of drone attack 24/7. However, if the Russians do invade, I expect NATO will provide Ukraine with an endless supply of LAW's, Javelins and Stingers to make Russia's incursion as painful as possible.

17 posted on 05/02/2014 5:27:24 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Zhang Fei

And how would your scenerio lead to a fair referendum to elect a government to replace the temporary coup government in Kiev?


18 posted on 05/02/2014 5:31:11 AM PDT by grania
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To: Justa
Saddam had planned the Insurgency before Baghdad fell. It started at the end of Ashura which coincided with Easter Sunday, 2004. I was in the Shia south and the Shia residents were warning us during a trip to Najaf that Friday.

My theory is that if our units had killed Saddam's army instead of bypassing so many of Iraq's army units to take the capital, the insurgency would have been one big fizzle instead of dragging out for years. A big war of attrition at the beginning would have killed the vast majority of the men who were willing to fight, thereby preventing the multi-year war of attrition that occurred right before we got fed up and left.

19 posted on 05/02/2014 5:33:42 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: grania
And how would your scenerio lead to a fair referendum to elect a government to replace the temporary coup government in Kiev?

The elections haven't been postponed. They just have to be conducted in conjunction with a campaign to eject Russian spec ops personnel armed with automatic weapons and MANPADS currently holding Ukrainian government buildings.

20 posted on 05/02/2014 5:38:23 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Ruprecht Jamieson

Yes,’residents of Sloviansk’ are so good at defending their city that they have somehow got MANPADS and became skilled enough at using them to shoot down two helicopters.


21 posted on 05/02/2014 6:28:10 AM PDT by Corporate Democrat
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To: grania

What do you expect them to do? Nothing? Let separatists, spearhead by Russian special forces, seize the entire region of Eastern Ukraine? And I’ve heard nothing about the referendum being postponed.

It seems to be a lose-lose situation to me.

If they do nothing, the East will become de facto Russian territory, and the Russians will end up doing the same bogus referendum that they did in Chechnya and in Crimea, getting over 95% of the vote as usual.


22 posted on 05/02/2014 6:32:15 AM PDT by Corporate Democrat
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To: Ruprecht Jamieson
Residents of Sloviansk seem to be doing a good job defending their city from the onslaught, so far.

Concurring bump.

The illegitimate puppet regime in Kiev is crumbling, reduced to military attacks on its own citizens.

23 posted on 05/02/2014 6:39:52 AM PDT by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans; junta

It’s a tough situation for sure. I know there are people within Eastern Ukraine who want to be united. Perhaps the majority don’t, or perhaps the most thuggish have asserted themselves. I just don’t have any way of knowing because both sources of info are liars. The same media who shields the masses from info to protect Rats is the media telling us we should support Ukraine.

If you said, “Texas has a right to defend its sovereignty from ______”, I would have to wholeheartedly agree. Or even if it was about Mexican-Americans forcefully taking the Southwest. I know enough that I would volunteer to violently crush them. I just don’t know if you can transpose those examples to Ukraine.

From what I understand, Ukraine’s sovereignty has historically been nebulous. It seems to me that the people of Ukraine, the army, the police, are being used as pawns by really bad people. There’s going to be slaughter on both, no ALL, sides to make a few old men richer. That’s why I say the common Ukrainian should say, “screw this” and go try to live in peace with their neighbor Russia. That’s why I agreed with Junta that the common man will get nothing out of dying for Crapholekst.


24 posted on 05/02/2014 7:30:40 AM PDT by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: Zhang Fei

Ukraine has been promised support. They may get it just to get Benghazi off the front pages. “How dare you repubicans investigate the president when we’re at war fighting for freedom!”


25 posted on 05/02/2014 5:45:01 PM PDT by VerySadAmerican
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