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Russian separatists down 2 choppers, fighting spreads to Odessa as Ukraine teeters
Fox News ^ | May 02, 2014 | Fox News

Posted on 05/02/2014 4:48:33 PM PDT by BurningOak

Pro-Russian separatists shot down two helicopters in a key eastern Ukrainian city, and fighting in the port city of Odessa triggered a fire that killed dozens, as the embattled nation moved closer to the brink of civil war.

Interim Ukraine President Oleksandr Turchynov said "many" pro-Russia rebels have been killed, injured and arrested in a major offensive to regain control of Slavyansk, though it was not clear if the Kiev-backed forces had succeeded. Russia reacted angrily to the offensive by Ukrainian security forces, calling for an emergency meeting of the UN Security Council after a spokesman for President Vladimir Putin warned it "effectively destroyed the last hope for the implementation of the Geneva agreements."

In the Black Sea port city of Odessa, Ukraine's third-largest city, a fire that broke out in a trade union building amid clashes killed 31. Fighting there represented another ominous milestone in the conflict that threatens to become a full-blown civil war, as Odessa holds huge historic significance for Russians and Ukrainians alike.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: civilwar; obamafail; russia; ukraine
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This upsets me greatly.

Looks like Ukraine is going the way of Syria thanks to Russian propaganda, Russian special forces, Russian controlled militias, and Russian military and political maneuvers to destabilize the nation. Imagine the USA had the misfortune of being located next to Russia and not next to British Canada. This could have been us a few hundred years ago.

Seeing a young democracy destroyed by a powerful tyrant is like watching a snake strangle a beautiful bird...

1 posted on 05/02/2014 4:48:33 PM PDT by BurningOak
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To: BurningOak

I don’t know if it is quite that poignant.

But note well that Putin hasn’t had the balls yet to push his own forces across the border.


2 posted on 05/02/2014 4:51:21 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: BenLurkin

In before the name-calling!


3 posted on 05/02/2014 4:55:32 PM PDT by Uncle Miltie (Mohammed was a Child Rapist and Islam is a Totalitarian Death Cult.)
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To: BurningOak

That beautiful “democracy” is going to get swallowed by a snake or an alligator. It is their choice.


4 posted on 05/02/2014 4:55:41 PM PDT by dforest
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To: BenLurkin

Well, he did, but they weren’t wearing insignia. And he did it to great effect, so he’ll probably do it again.


5 posted on 05/02/2014 4:56:15 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: BenLurkin

He doesn’t need to - the Maidan regime is burning its own house down without Russia having to lift a finger.

After Friday’s events in Odessa - things are spiraling downwards.


6 posted on 05/02/2014 4:56:22 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: BurningOak

Lessay Russia mucked around in Puerto Rico —how would we feel..?

SOME fights belong to other people.


7 posted on 05/02/2014 4:57:39 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: BurningOak

shooting down one is possible, two in a row, Russia is giving them weapons, there isn’t any doubt.

UN is spineless to do anything.


8 posted on 05/02/2014 5:00:44 PM PDT by dila813
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To: BurningOak

“Seeing a young democracy destroyed by a powerful tyrant is like watching a snake strangle a beautiful bird...”

As I understand it, the current Ukraine Gov. is the result of an coop a few months back. Why do you call it a young democracy?


9 posted on 05/02/2014 5:01:57 PM PDT by babygene ( .)
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To: BurningOak
It's a good news story...and great to discuss...but there is nothing the US can do about it.
CLIMATE CHANGE!, Palestine, and making everyone equal in the US is much more important. Just "axe" Obammy.
10 posted on 05/02/2014 5:05:06 PM PDT by Dallas59 ("Remember me as you pass by, As you are now, so once was I, As I am now, so you will be")
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To: BurningOak

Lunch? I haven't *touched* Obama's lunch.

11 posted on 05/02/2014 5:06:04 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Stalin Blamed The Kulaks,Obama Blames The Tea Party)
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To: BurningOak
Yeah, there isn't a single Ukrainian fighting another Ukrainian because you can always call Ukrainians "ethnic Russians" just like the people going to Dachau were all not really Germans.

Please, the powerful tyrant stuff should be reserved for the coup "government" in Kiev who unleashed the Army on protesters after throwing out a legally elected government that would not unleash the Army on protesters. A very interesting contrast, that, and a good indication of who is a tyrant in the Ukraine.

12 posted on 05/02/2014 5:06:23 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: goldstategop
Russia "never lifted a finger." [snort]

Funny, how things always seem to break Russia's way, without it doing a damn thing.

13 posted on 05/02/2014 5:07:18 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Rashputin; babygene

The Ukrainian president was impeached for good reason. Our neo-Bolsheviks, never, ever bring up why.


14 posted on 05/02/2014 5:09:21 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Gay State Conservative

Obama is utterly useless on foreign policy, he sucks at everything, but the impotence on foreign policy makes Jimmy Carter look like Patton. Not only would Ted Cruz be better, but ANYONE would be better (except for the Ron Paul nut). The guy is worthless.


15 posted on 05/02/2014 5:12:47 PM PDT by BurningOak (Live Free or Die)
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To: BurningOak

I’m not nearly as idealistic as all that. Joining the European union is hardly my definition of Democracy and our Democracy is a fiction dominated by oligarchs and an elitist political class. I may not love Russia but when weighed against the EU and our government its hard not to find ourselves wanting. I also think it is healthy to have an antagonist that makes people wake up to a reality of a dangerous world and world where having a government debt that represents 87% (EU) of GDP is dangerous beyond belief.
We need not delude ourselves the old America that we could be loyal and love is nearly gone. We have only a few more elections left to pull back from the abyss. Russia isn’t our threat. Our threat is in the white house and on TV and represented by a political/corporatist class that has enslaved us in all way but chains but that will come in time whether it be to bind our hands or just to our minds.

http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21601536-crisis-ukraine-hurting-already-weakening-economy-tipping-scales


16 posted on 05/02/2014 5:14:08 PM PDT by Maelstorm
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To: BurningOak

“Looks like Ukraine is going the way of Syria thanks to”

Ukraine is going the way of Syria because the Obama administration spent a TON of US taxpayer money to make it that way, to “get back” at Putin for daring to deny the greatness of Obama, and block his attack on Syria.


17 posted on 05/02/2014 5:14:33 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: BenLurkin

“But note well that Putin hasn’t had the balls yet to push his own forces across the border.”

A strong leader is not one who declares war every week. Putin is a KGB spy, he prefers to do things by cloak and dagger. He declares war when he has no other way to get his way. Here he seems to be succeeding without the need for open invasion (so far).


18 posted on 05/02/2014 5:15:25 PM PDT by BurningOak (Live Free or Die)
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To: 1rudeboy

“Well, he did, but they weren’t wearing insignia. And he did it to great effect, so he’ll probably do it again.”

Seems that the Russians learned well from Kosovo, Tunisia, Libya, and Egypt....


19 posted on 05/02/2014 5:15:30 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: dila813
". . . two in a row, Russia is giving them weapons, there isn’t any doubt"

So the current "government" in Kiev was lying when they said protesters had taken over Army stores at bases and armories in a half dozen cities?

No, no one needs to give the Ukrainians anything for them to have the resources to shoot down helicopters and blow up tanks. They have more than enough already and they'll be having more Army units defect to the separatists if they keep trying to bulldoze their way through civilian protesters.

20 posted on 05/02/2014 5:15:54 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: tcrlaf

Well, I guess it’s ok then. /s


21 posted on 05/02/2014 5:16:20 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: tcrlaf

Obama is not the mastermind of anything, least of all events in Ukraine. I agree that he is awful, but due to his impotence and weakness, not because he is some kind of evil puppet string puller.


22 posted on 05/02/2014 5:17:01 PM PDT by BurningOak (Live Free or Die)
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To: Rashputin

Dude, give it a friggin’ rest. Putin himself admitted that he sent soldiers into Crimea. Now we are to expect that he didn’t send them elsewhere?


23 posted on 05/02/2014 5:17:44 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: dila813

Every Soviet male had to serve at least two years in the military until 1993.

That town is sitting on the largest storehouse of infantry weapons, including TOWS and MANPADS, in the old Soviet Union, in a salt mine, that the rebels have had control of for over a month.

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to operate this stuff.


24 posted on 05/02/2014 5:20:07 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: BenLurkin

Why I get the feeling going be scene from 1925 Silent movie classic Battleship Poltkerin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLEE2UL_N7Q


25 posted on 05/02/2014 5:21:16 PM PDT by SevenofNine (We are Freepers, all your media bases belong to us ,resistance is futile)
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To: 1rudeboy

“The Ukrainian president was impeached for good reason. Our neo-Bolsheviks, never, ever bring up why.”

It does not matter WHY, it only happens that it happened. A coup is not “Democracy”, no matter how hard you try to spin it.


26 posted on 05/02/2014 5:22:02 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: SevenofNine

Yep, The Odessa Steps.


27 posted on 05/02/2014 5:23:40 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: BurningOak

In the meantime, Obama tees up on hole 12 and prepares to attempt to make a 9 on the hole.


28 posted on 05/02/2014 5:24:38 PM PDT by RetiredArmy (MARANATHA, MARANATHA, Come quickly LORD Jesus!!! Father send thy Son!! Its Time!)
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To: 1rudeboy
Oh, so then the Kiev Kiddies did lie when they said amories were taken over or you're just changing the subject? So there are Russian troops in Odessa? How about the other cities in the Ukraine? Are they in Kiev because it won't be long until the Army is needed there as well?

Sure, he said he sent troops to Crimea and I believe him. I also believe he did so because the Crimea is of strategic importance to Russia. The rest of the Ukraine isn't and he's more than happy to watch it tear itself apart.

My guess is someone will turn up sneaky military types from the EU or US before they ever find a sneaky Russian in the Ukraine because the Russians are getting everything they want without lifting a finger.

How about you give it a rest with pretending the PR releases and total fabrications out of Kiev are facts as well as with your BS about Russian troops behind every bush when there's no evidence of it other than the paranoia of the Kiev Kiddies?

29 posted on 05/02/2014 5:24:43 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: 1rudeboy

Sorry, I forgot the obligatory, “Dude” with my “you give it a rest”.


30 posted on 05/02/2014 5:25:43 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: BurningOak

“Obama is not the mastermind of anything”

That is very, VERY true.

This was thought up by some idiot minion, who thought it would be a good way to get back at Putin, so they started throwing around money to Ukraine’s most radical elements via the Omidyar Network, Soros Renaissance, and USAID via the US Embassy in Kiev.

You cannot deny this.


31 posted on 05/02/2014 5:26:12 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: BurningOak

As though the Ukraine is as pure as the wind driven snow.


32 posted on 05/02/2014 5:26:16 PM PDT by CodeToad (Arm Up! They Are!)
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To: gaijin

Do you honestly think U. S. messing around is that same as Russian messing around?

We lobby the Ukraine to join the E. U., and Russia invades Crimea and annexes it.

That’s equal?

If it were Puerto Rico, do you think Puerto Rico would ever be free again?


33 posted on 05/02/2014 5:28:05 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: BurningOak

“Seeing a young democracy destroyed by a powerful tyrant is like watching a snake strangle a beautiful bird...”

You are completely out of touch with reality. The regime in Kiev came to power in a coup and the people they are attacking are supporters of the deposed president who won the last election. Whatever your take on the situation, it is an outright lie to frame the conflict in those terms.


34 posted on 05/02/2014 5:28:43 PM PDT by Monmouth78
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To: Rashputin

Anybody who didn’t think that Western and Southern Ukraine would go into unrest after the coup in Kiev, simply has no understanding of regional politics.

I stated this would happen on Jim Robinson’s thread about it, the night the government fell.

It doesn’t take a genius to figure this out. Putin is a MACHIAVELLIAN. And he’s been kicking dirt in the wimp Obama’s face at every turn since before Syria.


35 posted on 05/02/2014 5:29:38 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: BurningOak
Not only would Ted Cruz be better, but ANYONE would be better...

Makes ya wonder if Obama wants to hand a Republican successor a world on the brink of annihilation.

36 posted on 05/02/2014 5:30:55 PM PDT by gundog (Help us, Nairobi-Wan Kenobi...you're our only hope.)
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To: Rashputin
Deflection, diversion. The weapons could have come from anywhere, but Putin admitted the soldiers came from Russia (in Crimea). Why should I assume these soldiers (and these weapons) are home-grown?
37 posted on 05/02/2014 5:31:21 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Monmouth78

Just curious. Why was the president impeached? Interested in hearing your spin on the matter.


38 posted on 05/02/2014 5:32:52 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: dfwgator

That what I thinking

Yes I have DVD LOL!


39 posted on 05/02/2014 5:35:14 PM PDT by SevenofNine (We are Freepers, all your media bases belong to us ,resistance is futile)
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To: gaijin

Actually put Laker fans rioting in Ukraine we have good match


40 posted on 05/02/2014 5:35:43 PM PDT by SevenofNine (We are Freepers, all your media bases belong to us ,resistance is futile)
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To: BurningOak

Seeing a young democracy destroyed by a powerful tyrant is like watching a snake strangle a beautiful bird...

Seeing a 200+ year old democracy destroyed by a powerful tyrant makes me want to puke.


41 posted on 05/02/2014 5:38:39 PM PDT by VerySadAmerican
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To: All

Just so everyone is aware, Pertaining to the crew of impotent hyperpatriots that hang out on the Russia/Ukraine threads accusing people of spreading propaganda for Putin and the like....

So far I have invited about half of them to put on their big boy panties and report us ‘Russian propogandists’ to DHS or at the very least, to JR. Which one would thing a fitting action. We are Russian propogandists and worse right? Not one of them believes enough in the accusations they make towards those refusing to agree with them to do their obvious patriotic duty and have us foreign agents arrested or even zotted.

That pretty much shows you how little they stand behind the crap coming off their keyboards while disrupting every thread on the subject.

Oh, and you will also note that when confronted with the well reported ‘Occupy Ukraine” scam that out state Dept ran that pretty much started this mess, there is dismissal or silence.

Just a heads up for lurkers and other posters who don’t feel like wasting their time.


42 posted on 05/02/2014 5:38:57 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart (How's that 'lesser evil' workin' out for ya?)
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To: BurningOak

Democracy? What democracy? They ran the elected guy out of the country, and replaced him with Svoboda-party thugs... because he wouldn’t join the European Union. Take a look at the US debt-to-GDP ratio, the go looks at the folks the EU calls “PIIGS,” and see what the Bundesbank did to them.


43 posted on 05/02/2014 5:41:29 PM PDT by dangus
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To: Norm Lenhart

It’s not an internet forum, unless it operates the way you wish . . . right, Norm?


44 posted on 05/02/2014 5:44:51 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: DoughtyOne

Ukraine is on the other side of the world from the USA and we have no important interests there. Ukraine was also part of Russia going back a thousand years. Crimea was moved from Russia to Ukraine during the 1950’s by Khrushchev.

How America acquired PR is an interesting story and not in a way that supports your point.


45 posted on 05/02/2014 5:45:46 PM PDT by Monmouth78
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To: 1rudeboy

Impeached? With gunmen storming the parlaiment?

Do you know what he was impeached for? When Yulia Tymoshenko dealt with Gazprom, she pocketed the cash; when Yanukovich dealt with Gazprom, the funds went to the treasury. But Tymoshenko gets released from prison and Yanukovich gets exiled. But funny thing is when rebels had literal guns to their heads, the parliament changed their opinion of who was innocent and who was guilty.


46 posted on 05/02/2014 5:46:31 PM PDT by dangus
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To: Norm Lenhart
report us ‘Russian propogandists’ to DHS or at the very least, to JR. Which one would thing a fitting action.

Even if somebody believes with all their heart somebody is a 'Russian propagandist'...why would they report you them DHS? It is not illegal. That would be like calling 911 over your chicken nugget order.

47 posted on 05/02/2014 5:46:52 PM PDT by Irenic (The pencil sharpener and Elmer's glue is put away-- we've lost the red wheelbarrow)
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To: DoughtyOne

>> We lobby the Ukraine to join the E. U., and Russia invades Crimea and annexes it. <<

Funny... I didn’t see lobbyists in the news; I saw armed gunmen.


48 posted on 05/02/2014 5:47:31 PM PDT by dangus
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To: 1rudeboy

It’s not an internet forum unless you can accuse people of crap you don’t have the willpower to stand behind right Rude?


49 posted on 05/02/2014 5:49:43 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart (How's that 'lesser evil' workin' out for ya?)
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To: 1rudeboy

Yanukovitch’s big crime was brokering a gas deal with Putin wherein the Ukraine would no longer get subsidies in exchange for their $16 billion debt being written off. Contrast that to Tymoshenko who pocketed billions from her gas deal while the Ukrainian government collapsed into debt.


50 posted on 05/02/2014 5:50:21 PM PDT by dangus
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