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Russian separatists down 2 choppers, fighting spreads to Odessa as Ukraine teeters
Fox News ^ | May 02, 2014 | Fox News

Posted on 05/02/2014 4:48:33 PM PDT by BurningOak

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To: Irenic

Unregistered foreign agents are very much illegal.


51 posted on 05/02/2014 5:50:40 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart (How's that 'lesser evil' workin' out for ya?)
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To: Irenic
why would they report you them to DHS?
52 posted on 05/02/2014 5:50:42 PM PDT by Irenic (The pencil sharpener and Elmer's glue is put away-- we've lost the red wheelbarrow)
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To: dangus

I believe the timeline was more closely: Yanukovich put Tymoshenko in prison (rightly or wrongly), then he tried to seize more power for himself, then his people revolted (in the west, the Russians are big on the distinction), he shot them, he was impeached, and he fled.


53 posted on 05/02/2014 5:50:44 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: BurningOak

this is barry’s “flexible” position with putin.

after all he’s marxist so a revived soviet union is really a wonderful thing to him.


54 posted on 05/02/2014 5:50:50 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: 1rudeboy

You never address the points others make. You only make lame one liners. Every post from you is some sarcastic insult. Try debating and arguing with facts and logic sometime.


55 posted on 05/02/2014 5:52:20 PM PDT by Monmouth78
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To: Norm Lenhart
In lieu of posting an image of a shirtless Putin, I'll leave you with the following:


56 posted on 05/02/2014 5:53:44 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

The horse pic. PLEASE post the horse pic. He’s SSOOOOO DREAMY!


57 posted on 05/02/2014 5:54:52 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart (How's that 'lesser evil' workin' out for ya?)
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To: Monmouth78

I wish I could but when I do, the Russians can’t handle it for some reason.


58 posted on 05/02/2014 5:55:27 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Secret Agent Man

The word “Marxist” is misused in American conservative media. Obama is not a Marxist, Fidel and Mao and Stalin were Marxists. A real Marxist is somebody with balls fighting for a very evil cause. Obama is not a Marxist. He is a pinko socialist, tofu breathed, gamma male, tree hugging, flower fondling, grass groping, pinko socialist. Basically he is a Marxist without the cojones.


59 posted on 05/02/2014 5:58:10 PM PDT by BurningOak (Live Free or Die)
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To: SevenofNine

Ah yes — the original Red Diaper Baby!

Rolling, rolling, rolling, down the stairs...

A cinema classic — and a scene oft imitated in one way or another. Best recent example I can think of was in Costner’s lamentable “Untouchables” movie.


60 posted on 05/02/2014 6:00:53 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: Monmouth78

Ukraine is on the other side of the world from the USA and we have no important interests there. 

Did we have an important interest in Austria in the 1930s?  How about Poland?  What about France?  What about Northern Africa?  What about Russia?  Did we sanction state adventurism when Germany was doing it?

I don't think Reagan thought of the Ukraine as of no interest.  He cared about everyone behind the Iron Curtain and wanted them to be free to live out their own best destiny.  Do I think he would commit all our troops to the defense of the Ukraine?  No, but I do believe he would be taking it to Russia big-time in the media, and doing whatever he could behind the scenes to help.

Ukraine was also part of Russia going back a thousand years. Crimea was moved from Russia to Ukraine during the 1950’s by Khrushchev.

Who moved Crimea from Russia to the Ukraine?  The Politboro did it.  Khrushchev as merely the mouthpiece.  If they hadn't wanted him to do it, it wouldn't have happened.  And if he had tried without them, he wouldn't have lived on in retirement..

How America acquired PR is an interesting story and not in a way that supports your point.

That could be.  None the less I do believe you are sharp enough to understand the difference between U. S. medling and Russian medling in this era.


61 posted on 05/02/2014 6:00:55 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: tcrlaf
Western Ukraine is a much a powder keg as Eastern Ukraine but for different reasons. At least that's what I hear from folks with family who live there. From what I hear that's part of the reason the "government" in Kiev stays tight with the Right Sector types and their affiliates.

Like I've said before, I'm amazed Ukraine has stayed in one piece this long.

62 posted on 05/02/2014 6:01:22 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Uncle Miltie

Not me!

I’m going to start lurking on these threads — they have gotten as bad as the Crevo-Devo threads were.


63 posted on 05/02/2014 6:02:15 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: dangus

So you’re saying the U. S. had armed gunmen there?

Oh, you’re talking about Crimea. That’s right. Tanks and the like...

I agree.


64 posted on 05/02/2014 6:02:51 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: 1rudeboy

The great mystery of today is who shot the Ukrainians in Odessa. Right Sector? Monsanto?


65 posted on 05/02/2014 6:05:33 PM PDT by lodi90
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To: Monmouth78

“Every post from you is some sarcastic insult. Try debating and arguing with facts and logic sometime”

It can’t, because the facts in evidence simply don’t support it’s “position”.

It is merely here to flame troll, and to divert the conversation way from the topic.


66 posted on 05/02/2014 6:06:11 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: Norm Lenhart
Wait for it ...... "PUTINISTA" !!!!

Yeah, if you don't swallow every PR puff piece out of Kiev and the EU you're probably Russian Special Forces with a laptop somewhere in Eastern Ukraine. I know how you feel, I didn't believe the stuff about the Parachute Brigade being clever and displaying a separatist flag to save lives, not displaying it because they defected. Silly me, huh?

Now I don't believe the Army shooting protesters armed exactly like the protesters in Kiev were is really the Army slaughtering evil Russians who deserve it. So . . . we'll see.

67 posted on 05/02/2014 6:06:37 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Monmouth78

I do not believe that belligerent dictators building empires is something American can afford to ignore. The world changed, isolationism has been destroyed by technology. We can no longer be untouchable seating on our little island and sticking our head in the sand.

As for the excuses for why Russia is justified to take Crimea, all of these can be used to justify a Mexican reconquest of Texas.


68 posted on 05/02/2014 6:06:44 PM PDT by BurningOak (Live Free or Die)
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To: lodi90

“The great mystery of today is who shot the Ukrainians in Odessa. Right Sector? Monsanto?”

The evidence is pretty clear about that. All you have to do is google the videos, and search the tweets.


69 posted on 05/02/2014 6:07:22 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: lodi90

Russia Today tweeted that the shooters were English speakers. /s


70 posted on 05/02/2014 6:07:52 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Rashputin

Well being a Palinista already I could see Russia from my house ;)


71 posted on 05/02/2014 6:09:23 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart (How's that 'lesser evil' workin' out for ya?)
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To: tcrlaf

Hey man, if you’re not going to give me the courtesy of a ping when you’re speaking about me, then quit your whining, forever.


72 posted on 05/02/2014 6:10:04 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: BurningOak

” do not believe that belligerent dictators building empires...”

Like Obama?


73 posted on 05/02/2014 6:10:15 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart (How's that 'lesser evil' workin' out for ya?)
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To: Norm Lenhart

Help me with the logic, again: when Obama does it, it’s bad; when Putin does it, it’s . . . .


74 posted on 05/02/2014 6:13:08 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: BurningOak

Guess one could say God knows the reasons.


75 posted on 05/02/2014 6:15:21 PM PDT by no-to-illegals (Scrutinize our government and Secure the Blessing of Freedom and Justice)
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To: Norm Lenhart

-”I do not believe that belligerent dictators building empires...”

-”Like Obama?”

Obama has not invaded Canada. Russia under Putin crashed an insurgency (so much for loving separatists) and invaded/occupied two nations.


76 posted on 05/02/2014 6:15:26 PM PDT by BurningOak (Live Free or Die)
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To: BurningOak
". . .all of these can be used to justify a Mexican reconquest of Texas."

The difference is, Texans say,

and the Kiev Kiddies say,


77 posted on 05/02/2014 6:17:30 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: no-to-illegals

I know that God is in control. But that does not mean he is on our side, The Lord can and does use evil men to punish those that fail in his eyes.


78 posted on 05/02/2014 6:18:51 PM PDT by BurningOak (Live Free or Die)
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To: Rashputin

The Earth was last night affair, one guesses.


79 posted on 05/02/2014 6:19:19 PM PDT by no-to-illegals (Scrutinize our government and Secure the Blessing of Freedom and Justice)
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To: 1rudeboy

“The Ukrainian president was impeached for good reason. Our neo-Bolsheviks, never, ever bring up why.”

Why don’t you tell us why? (probably because you have no idea)


80 posted on 05/02/2014 6:19:29 PM PDT by babygene ( .)
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To: BurningOak

Would it be better I offer my soul?


81 posted on 05/02/2014 6:20:43 PM PDT by no-to-illegals (Scrutinize our government and Secure the Blessing of Freedom and Justice)
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To: babygene

yes, none know why ... thus we argue.


82 posted on 05/02/2014 6:21:53 PM PDT by no-to-illegals (Scrutinize our government and Secure the Blessing of Freedom and Justice)
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To: babygene

Rewriting the Constitution, packing the Supreme Court, draining the Treasury, handing over state assets to himself and his friends, ordering troops to shoot his citizens . . . and that’s just off the top of my head. Any other questions?


83 posted on 05/02/2014 6:21:54 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: BurningOak

Missed that whole Occupy Ukraine scam huh?

No, Obama and the dems just invaded America and destroyed it from within. With help from the libs in the GOP.

Trashed our freedom, trashed our laws, imprisoned our soldiers, purged the brass, can’t abort kids fast enough, lied to everyone about everything...So he sent his minions to destroy other countries.

And his minions have his full support doing it.

So no prob I guess.


84 posted on 05/02/2014 6:22:02 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart (How's that 'lesser evil' workin' out for ya?)
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To: 1rudeboy

Got ice-cream?


85 posted on 05/02/2014 6:22:34 PM PDT by no-to-illegals (Scrutinize our government and Secure the Blessing of Freedom and Justice)
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To: Rashputin

Many Americans simply cannot relate to the idea of being a small fish in a big pond. It is easy to be brave when you are the mightiest nation on the face of the earth, Ukraine has good reason to be terrified of Russia. They remember what it is like to have a world war waged on your soil, and what it is like to be occupied by people who wish to wipe you out.


86 posted on 05/02/2014 6:23:07 PM PDT by BurningOak (Live Free or Die)
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To: Norm Lenhart

Am walking away ... This is none of America’s affair.


87 posted on 05/02/2014 6:23:49 PM PDT by no-to-illegals (Scrutinize our government and Secure the Blessing of Freedom and Justice)
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To: tcrlaf

Show me a video or pics of pro-Russians being shot at in Odessa. There are none that I am aware of. The shooters were among the Russian “protesters”. Strange place for pro-Ukrainians to be. Correct?


88 posted on 05/02/2014 6:25:56 PM PDT by lodi90
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To: 1rudeboy

It’s ....possibly a reaction to what Obama did along with the EU in the Ukraine perhaps? Just perhaps it wouldn’t have happened had we and the EU not started it? Or at minimum not happened as it did GIVING HIM A REASON?

Which of course, they wanted. And got. To the applause of idiots.


89 posted on 05/02/2014 6:25:56 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart (How's that 'lesser evil' workin' out for ya?)
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To: Norm Lenhart

Norm, please ping me when needed, please.


90 posted on 05/02/2014 6:26:07 PM PDT by no-to-illegals (Scrutinize our government and Secure the Blessing of Freedom and Justice)
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To: no-to-illegals

Libs started it, let them go fight it. With their supporters. Yup, leave the rest of us out of it.


91 posted on 05/02/2014 6:27:03 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart (How's that 'lesser evil' workin' out for ya?)
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To: BurningOak
Ukraine had good reason not to sell off it's most modern military equipment and cut their defense budget to next to nothing. That much is true. However, they did get rid of equipment and cut their defense spending to the bone.

My goodness, the people who had a good reason to have a strong means of defense decided not to and now we're supposed to make up for their not being willing to defend themselves?

Sorry, if they won't do what it takes to be a small fish in a big pond and survive so be it, they wrote their own epitaph; "Here lie a fools who weren't prepared to defend themselves".

92 posted on 05/02/2014 6:27:17 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: no-to-illegals

Needed is so subjective. I mean look at these people. Who would need help? ;)


93 posted on 05/02/2014 6:28:50 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart (How's that 'lesser evil' workin' out for ya?)
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To: Norm Lenhart

Kudos.


94 posted on 05/02/2014 6:29:59 PM PDT by no-to-illegals (Scrutinize our government and Secure the Blessing of Freedom and Justice)
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To: Rashputin

Postedt this earlier today...fits here

Norm Lenhart to Mariner

Begin rant:

It’s things like this (and many likewise braindead examples) that make me shake my head on the Russia threads and people spazzing out there.

These countries do not want to defend themselves or each other. they want their cash for their welfare programs to buy votes/power for more liberal elitism. It’s no secret.

Someone tell me why America should care. Someone tell me why as a nuclear power, we should care. We defend ourselves. Or should, Obama not withstanding. Is it wrong for these parasite places to defend themselves?

The answer is that it doesn’t really matter ultimately if it is right/wrong or not. If they refuse to spend on defense, then they DESERVE what happens to them. And no one reading this go liberal please and tell me Geneva and human rights and the rest of that crap.

We each as humans have the ‘right’ to defend our persons. That does not mean some other person cares about your ‘rights’. You only have ‘rights’ as long as you can defend them.

America has a Constitution. That is a meaningless document unless you defend it. Land an army from China/Russia on American soil, then walk up to them with a pocket constitution and say “Sorry Dong Long, We have rights and you can’t strip them. After he caps you, you don’t have a right to burial either. Best to cap him first or better yet, not let them land.

The NATO countries, with no US aid are like that person but for real. And just as that person had his ‘rights’ overruled by a Chinese soldier with an AK, so too will any person or country that chooses to depend on a collective idea with nothing behind it and no one willing to defend it.

If the Ukraine was that worried about it’s rights, it would have planned to defend them from a traditional aggressor state like Russia. If Europe was worried about the same, it too would have prepared. It too did not.

So now it’s ‘rights’ are a meaningless idea that no one will defend. And so their ‘rights’ will be taken by force. If not this year, soon. By Russia, by China, by Muslims.

It is not our ‘right’ or responsibility to care. As a republic, not an empire, it would be Imperial for our armies to interfere with their international concerns. Those are for them to deal with via their people, their govts, their militaries and their cash as they see fit.

For those that scream ‘Isolationist!” AlexJonesPaulbot and the rest, I ask where the above is in any way inconsistent with the words of the founders who warned specifically against foreign entanglements like NATO. Show me how you are smarter than they. Or sit silently with no answer worth speaking.

We have enough weaponry, energy and manpower to defend against any direct attack facing us. That other countries did not prepare is not our problem. Even childrens fables have taught this wisdom for centuries. Businesses that entangled themselves globally with said countries... it is the problem of the businesses involved and have to deal with the reality they willingly entered into. Such is the responsibility of a free capitalist life. We as a people do not believe them too big to fail. Others will form in their place and fill the need. That is how the market works.

There is no argument to be made in fact, that results in anything but the obvious. It is NOT our problem.

Now do we WANT to go involve ourselves in a war with Capt. Bhenghazi leading a purged military under insane ROEs?


95 posted on 05/02/2014 6:32:22 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart (How's that 'lesser evil' workin' out for ya?)
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To: Rashputin
Please, the powerful tyrant stuff should be reserved for the coup "government" in Kiev who unleashed the Army on protesters after throwing out a legally elected government that would not unleash the Army on protesters. A very interesting contrast, that, and a good indication of who is a tyrant in the Ukraine.

Who would take this comment seriously? Yanukovich killed a hundred people on Maidan, the new Kiev government advance gets bogged down when the village folk blocks the road and the military refuses to open fire on civilians. Can you even appreciate the contrast? The criticism against the Kiev government in Ukraine is they haven't done very little while separatists run around with guns (up till yesterday). Right now in Slaviansk, Yanukovich might have done what Putin has done to Grozny, carpet bomb, artillery the hell out of it.

96 posted on 05/02/2014 6:32:47 PM PDT by Ivan Mazepa
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To: Norm Lenhart

Excellent, thanks for reposting.

Regards


97 posted on 05/02/2014 6:36:07 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: BenLurkin

Yup that movie this remind me of the movie ALOT
BTW TCM show it other month on their channel AGAIN


98 posted on 05/02/2014 6:38:39 PM PDT by SevenofNine (We are Freepers, all your media bases belong to us ,resistance is futile)
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To: dangus
Do you know what he was impeached for? When Yulia Tymoshenko dealt with Gazprom, she pocketed the cash; when Yanukovich dealt with Gazprom, the funds went to the treasury.

LOL, he's a great guy, he should come back and run for the president again

99 posted on 05/02/2014 6:40:16 PM PDT by Ivan Mazepa
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To: tcrlaf

I watched the live stream. The active shooters were on the pro-Russian side of the street and under the protection of the police. The bodies were dropping on the Ukrainian side. Obvious Green Men shooting to kill. And they did. You want pics?


100 posted on 05/02/2014 6:47:05 PM PDT by lodi90
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