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What Vladimir Putin chooses not to know about Russian history
Los Angeles Times ^ | May 1, 2014, 5:04 p.m. | Patricia Herlihy

Posted on 05/04/2014 6:30:42 AM PDT by WhiskeyX

KGB agents are apparently not taught history, or so it would seem from Vladimir Putin's recent statement that only "God knows" how a portion of southeastern Ukraine ever became part of that country. The Russian president refers to the region as "New Russia," an old idea that has always been — and remains — an aspiration rather than a fact. Luhansk, Donetsk, Odessa and other New Russian cities have been a part of Ukraine for nearly a century. And even before that, they were never truly Russian.

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Russia
KEYWORDS: novorussiya; putin; russia; ukraine

1 posted on 05/04/2014 6:30:42 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: WhiskeyX

Unlike the wise Obama, we find that Putin has areas of ignorance.


2 posted on 05/04/2014 6:35:56 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy
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To: WhiskeyX
When I read “news” stories about Obama, and/or Putin, I fell like I have been transported back to 1939
with only a slight change of characters.
The MSM has their propaganda machine in high gear.
3 posted on 05/04/2014 6:41:09 AM PDT by Tupelo (I feel more like Philip Nolan every day)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Putin knows a lot, he was/is KGB.

Does that make him a good guy? NO WAY.

He despises any hint of freedom.


4 posted on 05/04/2014 6:45:44 AM PDT by Texas Fossil (Texas is not where you were born, but a Free State of Heart, Mind & Attitude!)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Putin is not superman. He will soon learn he isn’t the only one capable of irregular warfare.

Russian chauvinism and propaganda is inflaming the entire region. Armchair Putinistas haven’t a clue what is going on there.


5 posted on 05/04/2014 6:46:15 AM PDT by lodi90
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To: ClearCase_guy

I’m pretty sure that Putin knows Russian history far better than the Western media and many posters on this board.


6 posted on 05/04/2014 6:47:48 AM PDT by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: WhiskeyX

Interesting read.


7 posted on 05/04/2014 6:47:58 AM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: WhiskeyX

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irredentism

Irrendentism is a historic claim on land. This land is ours because it was ours in (pick-a-date.) Or, this land is ours because it was settled by our culture before your culture came along. This claim has been the cause of wars and bad peace settlements like those of World War 1 where practically the whole of Europe was redrawn based on the irredentism of the winners. Often you’ll hear liberals accuse Americans born here of not being natives because they aren’t Indians. (Except for Elizabeth Warren who beat that by declaring she’s an Indian.)

The conclusion I’ve come to is that irredentism is meaningless. It’s what the current owner wants that matters. The problem with irredentism is, to take for example, the area between France and Germany, which history are you referring to? It has changed hands so often that you need charts to keep track. You could say it belongs to Rome if you want to go back that far. There were numerous kings before then too. The point is that the people living there now can’t make a claim that they’re exclusively French or German. Nor can France or Germany make that claim on those people. They simply are what they are and that’s people sharing a very mixed past. But what matters is the present and what the current owner thinks.


8 posted on 05/04/2014 6:50:13 AM PDT by Gen.Blather
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To: WhiskeyX
The Soviet Union did control Ukraine through proxy so I'm not really sure what the article is getting at.

Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic (1919–1991)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Soviet_Socialist_Republic
9 posted on 05/04/2014 6:52:23 AM PDT by VitacoreVision
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To: WhiskeyX

According to the author, most of Ukraine was not historically Russian...nor Ukrainian, but rather a melting pot of nationalities. Sort of like the US in general, and NYC in particular.


10 posted on 05/04/2014 6:56:16 AM PDT by Cowboy Bob (They are called "Liberals" because the word "parasite" was already taken.)
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To: VitacoreVision

Do you think Obama will reinstitute the Berlin Airlift when Putin moves West, like in did in Afghanistan?


11 posted on 05/04/2014 6:57:32 AM PDT by BilLies (sharyl attkisson is alive and well HOORAY!!!!!)
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To: Cowboy Bob

Historically much of Russia itself was not majority ethnic Russian. Only Sovietization changed that.

So get back to me when Putin gives “federalization” to the Komi, Chechens, etc.


12 posted on 05/04/2014 7:05:52 AM PDT by lodi90
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To: lodi90

You’re welcome to the Chechens!


13 posted on 05/04/2014 7:07:42 AM PDT by Cowboy Bob (They are called "Liberals" because the word "parasite" was already taken.)
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To: Timber Rattler
I’m pretty sure that Putin knows Russian history far better than the Western media and many posters on this board.

So it is possible that he doesn't know very much of it.

14 posted on 05/04/2014 7:08:34 AM PDT by Tijeras_Slim
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To: BilLies

Do you think Obama will reinstitute the Berlin Airlift when Putin moves West, like in did in Afghanistan?


Not needed. Ukrainian patriots will give him an ass kicking. Nobody likes Russian chauvinism in Eastern Europe. The bumbling Russians are currently doing their best to inflame the entire region. The old expression don’t write a check with your mouth you can’t cash comes to mind here.


15 posted on 05/04/2014 7:09:17 AM PDT by lodi90
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To: lodi90
Not needed. Ukrainian patriots will give him an ass kicking.

Like they did in the 1920s and 1930s?

16 posted on 05/04/2014 7:15:02 AM PDT by fso301
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To: ClearCase_guy
Unlike the wise Obama, we find that Putin has areas of ignorance.

Yep - and the leftist "author" doesn't find it hypocritical that the Left has a habit of forgetting (or rewriting) history so they can ignore what it says about their own movements - - - convenient.

17 posted on 05/04/2014 7:19:55 AM PDT by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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To: WhiskeyX
These guys look like REAL fierce Ukrainians
18 posted on 05/04/2014 7:25:34 AM PDT by UMCRevMom@aol.com
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To: ClearCase_guy
It is sad that America's response is so weak. USA is 10 times stronger than Russia, but acting as a weakling. Obama will say something about costs again, but at least the actions the public sees are meager.


19 posted on 05/04/2014 8:19:14 AM PDT by Krosan
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To: fso301

Like they did in the 1920s and 1930s?


No like they did Friday and like they will do today.

Traitor Ukrainian police in Odessa just let the foreign national terrorists out of jail. Now the Ukrainian patriots of Odessa will clean up the mess.


20 posted on 05/04/2014 8:45:07 AM PDT by lodi90
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To: WhiskeyX

I have a feeling that at this point, Russian history is whatever Putin says it is.


21 posted on 05/04/2014 9:15:37 AM PDT by Argus
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To: Gen.Blather
It’s what the current owner wants that matters.

The land belongs to those with the strength and the will to hold on to it.

Period.

22 posted on 05/04/2014 9:25:32 AM PDT by uglybiker (nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-BATMAN!)
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To: WhiskeyX
Patricia Herlihy

In her haste to publish a book, she ignores a
thousand years of history of Kievan Rus'

Including the Baptism of Prince Vladimir


23 posted on 05/04/2014 10:20:53 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your teaching is my delight.)
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To: WhiskeyX

Russia has not changed in centuries even as the names and ideologies of the teams in charge have changed hands - the Soviet Union took over where the old imperial Russia left off and now Putin wants to resurrect the same Russian historical legacy. Why?

From the beginning, the Muscovites (the Russ that settled Moscow) realized their state could not be a “major power” in Europe or anywhere else - it lacked all the natural advantages for one - unless it could absorb, bully, intimidate and/or in some way control it’s near neighbors; otherwise it would always be left a minor player. The Russian people - enough of them - have always accepted that view and goal from their top leaders. Putin is not a “retrograde”. That would imply that Russia changed and Putin was trying to “take it backward”. No. From Putin’s and many Russian’s point of view, Russia did not change, in spite of the setbacks it had to TEMPORARILY accept with the fall of the Soviet Union.


24 posted on 05/04/2014 10:52:47 AM PDT by Wuli
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To: Wuli
From the beginning, the Muscovites (the Russ that settled Moscow) realized their state could not be a “major power” in Europe or anywhere else - it lacked all the natural advantages for one - unless it could absorb, bully, intimidate and/or in some way control it’s near neighbors; otherwise it would always be left a minor player

Which was exactly how the Prussians and Nazis thought about Germany. They saw the British Empire and envied their colonies. Meanwhile, here is Poland, stuck smack dab in the middle.

25 posted on 05/04/2014 10:57:37 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

“Meanwhile, here is Poland, stuck smack dab in the middle.”

That may be true today, but it was not always so. At one time the Poles were the “Russians” of their day, and together with the Lithuanians held an empire that included almost all of the Ukraine as well as parts of many other states we see on today’s maps. Even “neutral” Sweden was once not so neutral and herself put together a set of conquests in the region.

The difference is that most of western Europe now sees that attitude as ending in war and wiping out any advantages it temporarily gave any of the people, while Russia, in spite of major losses in two World Wars and dismemberment of the Soviet Union seems to think that bullying and conquest will be a net positive for it. My guess is that like Spain and Italy sooner or later Russia will have to accept minor-player status, either by choice or by provoking a reaction that leaves it no choice.


26 posted on 05/04/2014 11:06:59 AM PDT by Wuli
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To: lodi90

The Russian Empire was famously known as a “prison house of nationalities.” The Russians wanted to Russify the others (Poles, Finns, etc.).


27 posted on 05/04/2014 2:55:44 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: Cowboy Bob

Hawaii, Texas and Vermont were once countries.


28 posted on 05/04/2014 7:13:04 PM PDT by Mogger (Independence, better fuel economy and performance with American made synthetic oil.)
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