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Odessa police free 67 detained in deadly clashes
AP ^ | 8 minutes ago | Associated Press By NICOLAE DUMITRACHE and PETER LEONARD

Posted on 05/04/2014 10:00:09 AM PDT by Mariner

ODESSA, Ukraine (AP) — Hundreds of pro-Russian demonstrators stormed police headquarters in Odessa on Sunday and won the release of 67 people detained after deadly clashes in the Ukrainian port city.

More than 40 people died in the riots two days earlier, some from gunshot wounds, but most in a horrific fire that tore through a trade union building.

Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk, who hinted strongly that he saw Moscow's hand in the unrest spreading through southeastern Ukraine, visited Odessa on Sunday to try to defuse the mounting tensions.

Odessa is the major city between the Crimean Peninsula, which Russia annexed in March, and the Moldovan separatist region of Trans-Dniester, where Russia has a military peacekeeping contingent.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: coldwar2; communism; kgb; putin; russia; sovietunion; ukraine
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It's apparent these clashes will not be limited to the East.

Russia built Odessa, and in fact it was Catherine the Great who named the city. It's population is at least 1/2 ethnic Russian.

I will not pretend to know how the majority in the region aligns politically.

1 posted on 05/04/2014 10:00:09 AM PDT by Mariner
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To: Mariner

Catherine the Great.... this is apparently Russian for a long time. Why are we meddling in Russia .....

The west has, once again, started civil war and once again is proving completely unable to control and win it. So we resort to whining ....

The unrest started in Kiev with western backed militants upset they lost an election.


2 posted on 05/04/2014 10:03:22 AM PDT by wonkowasright (Wonko from outside the asylum)
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To: Mariner
I will not pretend to know how the majority in the region aligns political

One can suspect how they align now, after protestors were left to burn alive in a building.

3 posted on 05/04/2014 10:03:24 AM PDT by grania
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To: grania

Someone just posted photos over a crowd trying to save the people in that building. So “left to burn alive” is somewhat of a stretch.


4 posted on 05/04/2014 10:07:28 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Mariner

OH great we going have scene of silent movie classic Battleship Polikatin pretty soon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLEE2UL_N7Q


5 posted on 05/04/2014 10:07:51 AM PDT by SevenofNine (We are Freepers, all your media bases belong to us ,resistance is futile)
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To: wonkowasright
"The unrest started in Kiev with western backed militants upset they lost an election."

I believe their argument is that Yanukovych and his party deceived the electorate.

6 posted on 05/04/2014 10:09:04 AM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: Mariner

Probably. And of course politicians never do that :).

In all seriousness I can think of myriad cases where we have started civil unrest in a nation and completely lost control of it. The State Dept and/or the Alphabet Agencies just cannot seem to win at this game.

When we go in with a huge military presence, like Afghanistan or Iraq, in the near term we certainly do wind up allowing governments favorable to ourselves to rise.

But I have yet to see us successfully do that with the more subtle approach. Usually we loose complete control and wind up letting some other group seize control. As, ultimately, we will do here too.

Ineptness is pretty much the only way to explain it, I cannot fathom its a strategy.


7 posted on 05/04/2014 10:17:58 AM PDT by wonkowasright (Wonko from outside the asylum)
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To: Mariner

In fact Odessa was a long term Jewish enclave of Imperial Russia and USSR.


8 posted on 05/04/2014 10:18:18 AM PDT by wetphoenix
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To: wonkowasright
In all seriousness I can think of myriad cases where we have started civil unrest in a nation and completely lost control of it.

Can you think of any cases where Russia fomented civil unrest and then intervened, militarily?

9 posted on 05/04/2014 10:21:49 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Mariner
Russia built Odessa, and in fact it was Catherine the Great who named the city. It's population is at least 1/2 ethnic Russian.

No. Ethnic Ukrainians make up a majority 62% of the city of Odessa's population. Ethnic Russians are 29%. This according to the last census.

And Odessa Oblast has even a higher percentage of ethnic Ukrainians and lower percentage of ethnic Russians.

10 posted on 05/04/2014 10:24:20 AM PDT by FreeReign
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To: grania
One can suspect how they align now, after protestors were left to burn alive in a building.

You need to stop reading Putin news releases.


11 posted on 05/04/2014 10:28:13 AM PDT by FreeReign
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To: FreeReign
Thanks for those pictures. I do hope all of us keeping up with the horror from afar, whichever side we've favored, can join together and pray that a horror like that never happens again. Perhaps even agree that in a situation like that everyone joins hands to save those people.

As a member of the human race, in the 21st century, watching the potential for all of civilization to devolve into Nazi-style horrors. I'm sick at heart.

12 posted on 05/04/2014 10:35:19 AM PDT by grania
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To: wonkowasright
"Ineptness is pretty much the only way to explain it, I cannot fathom its a strategy."

You pretty much nailed it, right there.

Egypt being the previous version...and Libya.

13 posted on 05/04/2014 10:35:25 AM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: FreeReign
Yes, you are correct.

There WAS a Russian majority until WWII and the regions assimilation into the Soviet Union. Then many Ukrainians migrated there.

But it look like Russia stole it fair and square from the Ottoman Empire:

During the Russian-Turkish War of 1787–1792, on 25 September 1789, a detachment of Russian forces under Ivan Gudovich took Khadjibey and Yeni Dünya for the Russian Empire. One part of the troops came under command of a Spaniard in Russian service, Major General José de Ribas (known in Russia as Osip Mikhailovich Deribas), and the main street in Odessa today, Derybasivska Street, is named after him. Russia formally gained possession of the area as a result of the Treaty of Jassy (Iaşi) in 1792 and it became a part of Novorossiya ("New Russia").

14 posted on 05/04/2014 10:47:12 AM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: FreeReign
So, who started the fire?


Pro-Kiev Ukrainians making Molotov cocktails in central Odessa


Right Sector

Video shows despite clear evidence that pro-Kiev people started the fire, the mainstream media acts as though it's a mystery: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1tykLCTVlw

15 posted on 05/04/2014 10:50:43 AM PDT by PaulCruz2016
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To: PaulCruz2016
Video shows despite clear evidence that pro-Kiev people started the fire,

Where in the video is the clear evidence?? I watched the first 2:30 and disn't see it.

16 posted on 05/04/2014 11:06:48 AM PDT by FreeReign
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To: Mariner

How about the whole Shah of Iran debacle.... its non stop since at least then.


17 posted on 05/04/2014 11:08:49 AM PDT by wonkowasright (Wonko from outside the asylum)
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To: Mariner

How about the whole Shah of Iran debacle.... its non stop since at least then.


18 posted on 05/04/2014 11:08:49 AM PDT by wonkowasright (Wonko from outside the asylum)
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To: PaulCruz2016
I would add that reports I have see have describe both sides throwing Molotov cocktails. Russians from the roof top. Ukrainians from down below.

I would add this all occurred after Russians attacked and killed unarmed Ukrainian demonstrators and the pro Russians were followed back to their camp and then the building.

I notice you make no mention of that.

19 posted on 05/04/2014 11:10:59 AM PDT by FreeReign
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To: FreeReign
(correction)

I would add that the reports I have seen describe both sides throwing Molotov cocktails. Russians from the roof top. Ukrainians from down below. I would add this all occurred after Russians attacked and killed unarmed Ukrainian demonstrators. The pro Russians were then followed back to their camp and then the building.

I notice you make no mention of that.

20 posted on 05/04/2014 11:14:33 AM PDT by FreeReign
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To: Mariner

I believe their argument is that Yanukovych and his party deceived the electorate.

And they were systematically looting the country for the benefit of Russian mobsters. That has been pretty well demonstrated.


21 posted on 05/04/2014 11:57:02 AM PDT by JimSEA
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To: grania

Dang. Your post gave me chills. Living in this muck and watching things unfold a world away, I haven’t notice how close we are to arriving at that level of cruelty. Here we are.


22 posted on 05/04/2014 12:02:38 PM PDT by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: PaulCruz2016

I like how everyone who isn’t killing people for Putin are Right Sector.


23 posted on 05/04/2014 12:05:10 PM PDT by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: Mariner

The thing is, that happens all the time in a democracy. You would be hard pressed to find a US president who didn’t lie in the campaign about what he would do. Bush promised a “humble” foreign policy that didn’t involve unnecessary wars. Bush senior said “no new taxes.” Obama implied that he would do away with mass surveillance of the American people, then defended it after it was exposed as being even worse than we thought.

Russia was offering a much, much more generous deal than the EU was that would have been better for Ukraine’s economy and for the people’s standard of living IN THE SHORT TERM. As president, Yanukovych had the right to take that offer. There was nothing illegal or unconstitutional about that. US and EU actions emboldened the protesters, who started getting very violent and attacking the police with deadly weapons when the police were still being extremely lenient. This was a classic provocation strategy, where one side attacks the other repeatedly and then freaks out and cries “I’m a victim” when the other side finally fights back.

Everyone in the world can see that the US worked to destabilize Ukraine and orchestrated a coup. That’s a mainstream, widely accepted truth among educated people who follow the news everywhere. Maybe it was the right thing to do, maybe not, but there is no denying that’s what happened. Our leaders are acting like they have a monopoly on information and that people will just accept their rather absurd black/white narrative on the matter.

We need leaders who understand that things don’t work like that these days.


24 posted on 05/04/2014 12:14:39 PM PDT by Monmouth78
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To: Monmouth78
As president, Yanukovych had the right to take that offer. There was nothing illegal or unconstitutional about that. US and EU actions emboldened the protesters, who started getting very violent and attacking the police with deadly weapons when the police were still being extremely lenient. This was a classic provocation strategy, where one side attacks the other repeatedly and then freaks out and cries “I’m a victim” when the other side finally fights back.

Here's the Timeline of the Euromaidan.

I don't think that you're describing the events accurately. The first violence occurred the night of Nov. 30th by Berkut special police units. That was also the night the Yanukovich administration suppressed cell phone service.

25 posted on 05/04/2014 12:32:06 PM PDT by FreeReign
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To: FreeReign

Get real. Protesters attacking government building in DC and throwing molotov cocktails would have been machine gunned by the hundreds. Police were exceptionally restrained in Kiev, because they understood the provocation strategy being used. The provocateurs among the protesters kept upping the ante.

Look at what happen to one women in DC who was unarmed and not threatening anyone but simply acting strangely:

http://www.bing.com/search?q=miriam+carey&go=Submit&qs=n&form=QBRE&pq=miriam+carey&sc=8-12&sp=-1&sk=&ghc=1&cvid=f1d37fd100d04099acc3782fd22c831f

Imagine protesters trying to storm the White House because they don’t like NAFTA, hardcore neo-Nazi skinheads leading the charge. The secret service would use gatling guns on them.


26 posted on 05/04/2014 12:42:15 PM PDT by Monmouth78
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To: Monmouth78
Get real. Protesters attacking government building...

Stop!

Your "get real" comment is ironic.

You didn't address my post.

The first violence occurred the night of Nov. 30th by Berkut special police units. That was also the night the Yanukovich administration suppressed cell phone service.

There was NO occupation of government buildings at that time.

27 posted on 05/04/2014 12:58:56 PM PDT by FreeReign
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To: 1rudeboy
"So “left to burn alive” is somewhat of a stretch."

Oh horse hockey

You can watch the videos and on the same film clip whoever shot it points the camera one way and there are people helping those in the building escape then points in another direction and there are uniformed police shooting at the people trying to escape. Point somewhere else, and there are police protecting the people escaping from the mob trying to get at them and point in another direction and there are people kicking and beating people who escape.

There clearly were elements in the mob that wanted to let the people in the building burn to death.

28 posted on 05/04/2014 4:06:16 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Monmouth78
As president, Yanukovych had the right to take that offer.

And his citizens had the right to protest. He didn't have to shoot them.

29 posted on 05/04/2014 4:39:40 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

People who “protested” in the same manner in the US would have been shot long, long before anyone was shot Ukraine.

Throw a molotov cocktail at police guarding the White House and see what happens to you.


30 posted on 05/04/2014 4:53:01 PM PDT by Monmouth78
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To: Monmouth78

Before or after the president issues an executive order outlawing your protest, and sends goons to shoot you?


31 posted on 05/04/2014 4:55:08 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

Second point you’ve conceded.


32 posted on 05/04/2014 4:59:00 PM PDT by Monmouth78
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To: Monmouth78

I’m conceding nothing. If you can’t respond, don’t bother.


33 posted on 05/04/2014 5:02:04 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
You mean the order Kiev just put out after the IMF told them they better unleash the Ukrainian Army on Ukrainian civilians, right?

When the Army units they sent east start defecting I bet that will be due to their not being ethnically pure enough. Or is there some other BS already planned for that eventuality like the "the Parachute Brigade flew a Separatist flag to fool the crowds" the day before the unit was dis-banned?

(And wasn't it you who assured everyone that if Kiev said that's what happened anyone who didn't believe it was a "Putinista", or something of the sort?)

34 posted on 05/04/2014 5:02:53 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Rashputin

Are you sure it was the IMF? I thought it was George Soros and Monsanto.


35 posted on 05/04/2014 5:04:11 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

It wouldn’t matter when you threw molotov cocktails at the police guarding the White House, they would shoot you every time. You’re question was totally stupid.


36 posted on 05/04/2014 5:05:39 PM PDT by Monmouth78
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To: Monmouth78

So back to my original question: how often does the Secret Service shoot peaceful protestors?


37 posted on 05/04/2014 5:09:33 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

When they are part of a huge mob, many of whom are armed and attacking police, all kinds of people can get shot. Remember, police were shot in the fracas as well.

Now when are you going to admit that the police in Ukraine showed extreme restraint in dealing with people who were literally setting them on fire for months until things blew up at the end?


38 posted on 05/04/2014 5:12:23 PM PDT by Monmouth78
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To: PaulCruz2016
So, who started the fire?

-------

Vladimir Putin and the thousands of the Russian foreign national unlawful combatants and agents he has ordered into the sovereign state of Ukraine.

some_text

some_text

39 posted on 05/04/2014 5:13:27 PM PDT by lodi90
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To: 1rudeboy
I see that as usual you are grossly misinformed or deliberately avoiding every aspect of truth and reality.

I think it was the German press that first reported what the IMF dictated to Kiev and the news services all carried the story. One day the IMF tells Kiev they'd better use whatever force was necessary to regain control of the East or their loans to the Ukraine would be reconsidered. The next day Kiev sent troops east with orders to use whatever force necessary to get the protesters out of the streets.

Even the propaganda rag in Kiev carried the story so apparently the propaganda rag you so frequently quote is not trustworthy, right?

Now, if you want pretend that's a conspiracy theory you go right ahead.

40 posted on 05/04/2014 5:15:27 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: 1rudeboy
I wonder how Team FSB will feel about say a few dozen Latvian patriots going to Ukraine and killing Russian soldiers?

some_text

41 posted on 05/04/2014 5:18:35 PM PDT by lodi90
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To: lodi90
LOL.

You just screwed yourself. Enlarge and brighten that picture and the guy in the orange helmet clearly has on a bullet proof or assault vest over his Police shirt. LOL, not to even mention the two police looking right at him, he's probably their superior, not Vlad the Impaler lurking in the shadows.

Hoist on your own petard, retard. ROTFLMAO

42 posted on 05/04/2014 5:23:38 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Rashputin

German press, or Russia Today, I wonder? /s


43 posted on 05/04/2014 5:31:42 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Rashputin

You are having a daydream. There are many pic/videos of Ukrainians being fired and dying in the first street battle. I am thinking about starting a thread and posting them all. Keep talking and I will.

Actually, I’m more interested in your reaction to the Latvian photo. What’s the Team FSB plan when foreign nationals arrive on Ukraine’s side and start killing Russians? Bomb Riga? Pull out Russian nukes and threaten nuclear war?

Russia has let the transnational irregular warfare genie out of the bottle. Putin will rue the day he did that.


44 posted on 05/04/2014 5:32:18 PM PDT by lodi90
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To: Monmouth78

What the Russian timeline about the protests, anyway? I note that our Russians here avoid mentioning it whatsoever. Were the Maidan protests violent from the beginning? If not, how many months did they go until they became violent?


45 posted on 05/04/2014 5:33:56 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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What is
46 posted on 05/04/2014 5:34:22 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: lodi90
The people stirring the pot work for Kiev and are paid by Kiev, it's that simple. If they can't convince someone to send in a fairly large number of troops to keep their coup clique in power their little house of cards is going to collapse on them. Since they're making bigger fools of themselves.

The current crowd in Kiev has ordered the Ukrainian military to attack Ukrainian civilians with lethal force, period.

Now you just keep on calling that "democracy and freedom".

Maybe when this propaganda gig of yours is up you can get a job with Hillary Clinton's PR crew or even the BLM if you like working out of doors.

47 posted on 05/04/2014 5:47:36 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Rashputin

You didn’t answer my question. What’s the Team FSB plan when “war tourists” arrive on Ukraine’s side and kill Russians. Maybe post a few pics on twitter of dead Russians. Vova will love that.

So what will Putin do? Bomb Riga? Threaten nuclear war?

The answer is you haven’t thought about that question and neither have the Russians. Well you better get a plan because it’s going to happen eventually.


48 posted on 05/04/2014 5:51:21 PM PDT by lodi90
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To: 1rudeboy

It doesn’t matter whether or not the overall protests had turned violent or if everyone else were peaceful. Anyone in the USA who throws a molotov cocktail at the police will be shot. You know that. Stop talking around the issue.

Heavy attacks on the police with molotovs were seen in numerous videos by Dec., maybe it happened before too, IDK. Officers were on fire and the people who did it were standing a few meters away. The police simply retreated and smothered the fires. If that scenario played out in the USA, everyone in sight who appeared to be with the fire throwers would have been shot at by the police. They would have pumped bullet after bullet into them long after they were dead because “you can’ take any chances.”

Recently, some neo-hippie losers who were protesting in the US got 5-8 year sentences simply for making molotov cocktails that were not used. The prosecutor wanted MUCH longer sentences.


49 posted on 05/04/2014 5:52:36 PM PDT by Monmouth78
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Comment #50 Removed by Moderator


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