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44th anniversary of Kent State shooting: victims and students remember May 4th, 1970 shooting
Newsnet5 Cleveland ^ | 05-04-2014 | Michael Baldwin

Posted on 05/04/2014 7:40:43 PM PDT by PaulCruz2016

KENT, Ohio - A large crowd gathered just after 11 p.m. Saturday behind the Taylor Hall at Kent State University to honor the fallen. The crowd stood near the Victory Bell holding candles in remembrance of May 4th, 1970.

It was 44 years ago that four students were killed after 67 shots were fired in 13 seconds by the National Guard.

The students were pushed over to the parking lot of Prentice Hall as they were protesting the Vietnam War.

Students and volunteers are still standing in the parking lot area where the four students died. The students will stand there for 12 hours honoring the victims in the very spot where they were shot and killed.

Around 7 p.m. Saturday, a forum was held where survivors answered questions and spoke about the day they will never forget.

"To me, May 4th means life, but it also means death and murder," said Dean Kahler, who was shot and will never walk again.

(Excerpt) Read more at newsnet5.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: anniversary; college; kent; kentstate; kentstateuniversity; nationalguard; ohio; shooting; university
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1 posted on 05/04/2014 7:40:43 PM PDT by PaulCruz2016
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To: PaulCruz2016

This was worse than Waco.

They were unarmed.


2 posted on 05/04/2014 7:47:53 PM PDT by lightman (O Lord, save Thy people and bless Thine inheritance, giving to Thy Church vict'ry o'er Her enemies.)
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To: lightman
No one knows who fired first at Kent State. 4 dead in Ohio. 87 dead in Waco. Many children. Waco wasn't an accident -- Waco was deliberate.

Waco was obscene.

3 posted on 05/04/2014 7:49:48 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy
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To: ClearCase_guy

There seems to be some support for the idea that the first shot at Kent State came from a Bill Ayers/SDS type.

I used to have a name for an informant but I’m not going to dig around for it tonight.


4 posted on 05/04/2014 7:54:11 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin.)
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To: ClearCase_guy

I disagree. I will say nothing more.


5 posted on 05/04/2014 7:54:14 PM PDT by The Toll (e)
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To: PaulCruz2016
And the hypocritical b@st@rds commemorating the event want all legal firearms to be owned by police and soldiers.

Idiots.

6 posted on 05/04/2014 7:55:14 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: PaulCruz2016

Didn’t this put an end to the campus protests for the most part?


7 posted on 05/04/2014 7:55:32 PM PDT by ealgeone (obama, borderof)
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To: PaulCruz2016

Google paid tribute to Audrey Hepburn and what would have been her 85th birthday today.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/05/04/google-doodle-audrey-hepburn-actress-birthday/8695579/


8 posted on 05/04/2014 7:56:20 PM PDT by ConservativeStatement ("World Peace 1.20.09.")
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To: PaulCruz2016

University of Alabama football coach Nick Saban is a Kent State Alumnus and was a student there when this happened. He tells the story that he would have been in the vicinity of the shootings, but a friend asked him to have lunch so that delayed his movement about the campus that day.


9 posted on 05/04/2014 7:56:58 PM PDT by Will88
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To: PaulCruz2016

SDS Radicals whipped the students into a frenzy then slinked off when the National Guard shot at the students.


10 posted on 05/04/2014 7:59:16 PM PDT by MuttTheHoople (Nothing is more savage and brutal than justifiably angry Americans. Don’t believe me? Ask the Germa)
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To: PaulCruz2016
I remember that day. I was a working man trying to support myself after 4 years in the military. No time for college or protests on daddy's dime.

All of those where I worked considered this the elimination of bad rubbish.

11 posted on 05/04/2014 8:00:49 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need 7+ more ammo. LOTS MORE.)
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To: ealgeone
Your right!

Even college students in the 1970s were smart enough to never again bring rocks to a gunfight! After a decade of litigation State AGs learned never allow the National Guard to get involved with “campus riots” / panty raids / ROTC building arson / etc. Also that was a lesson to the National Guard to be allow itself to be used by politicians in Race Riots.

Kent State was a “teachable moment” in US history.

12 posted on 05/04/2014 8:04:21 PM PDT by texican01
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To: ConservativeStatement

I found that appalling.


13 posted on 05/04/2014 8:05:13 PM PDT by originalbuckeye (Moderation in temper is always a virtue; moderation in principle is always a vice. Paine)
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To: PaulCruz2016

I also suspect that this was a set-up. Radical anti-Vietnam protestors were popping up at colleges all over the place, and no one knew how to handle it. Classes were disrupted. Some colleges were shut down for lengthy periods of time (Columbia, for instance). At the uptown campus of NYU, where I was teaching, someone set fire to the library.

We’ll never know for sure exactly what happened. But the National Guard Troops really were unready to deal with these potentially violent protestors. I think they were frightened by the prospect of Molotov cocktails being thrown at them, or something similar.

Of course, it was very unfortunate. The left made instant use of it as a propaganda tool, and one could say that it led eventually to our losing the Vietnam War—not because our troops couldn’t have won it, but because the politicians lost heart and gave up.


14 posted on 05/04/2014 8:06:10 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: lightman

Your memory is a little dim. These “unarmed” rioters had burned a Federal Building down the night before.

Moral of the story-—do not throw rocks at someone who has you bore sited!


15 posted on 05/04/2014 8:07:18 PM PDT by texican01
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To: ealgeone

“Didn’t this put an end to the campus protests for the most part?”

Yes. It also helped in large part for us to lose the war.


16 posted on 05/04/2014 8:08:16 PM PDT by 21twelve (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2185147/posts 2013 is 1933 REBORN)
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To: PaulCruz2016

Kent State was a big deal at the time.

Now, after Ruby Ridge, Waco and the all too common SWAT team forced entries and shootings throughout the nation, it seems like a quaint notion that government authorities should not run wild, shooting and killing innocent civilians without due process.

Yet, in the prevailing Police State climate, government entities claim the right to do so and for the most part the courts agree with them.


17 posted on 05/04/2014 8:11:34 PM PDT by Iron Munro (Malaysia Flight MH370 Black Box signals reported in Bermuda Triangle)
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To: ealgeone
Didn’t this put an end to the campus protests for the most part?

I think the protests were already dying down. The first draft lottery was held December 1, 1969, and that informed a large number of students (including Slick Willie) of the probability whether they might be drafted.

1968 was the worst year of all for protests (and assassinations), and things began to settle some after that year. Nixon took office January of 1969 and began to reduce the number of US ground troops eary in his first term.

The fewer who had any reason to fear the draft, the fewer the protests and demonstrations.

18 posted on 05/04/2014 8:12:05 PM PDT by Will88
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To: PaulCruz2016

These “students” were not protesting the Vietnam war; they had firebombed the ROTC building, had doused trees in gasoline and caught them on fire, basically terrorized the town residence for weeks and, at the time of the shootings, were throwing bricks and other debris at guardsmen, chanting “kill! Kill! Kill!”

The guardsmen were justified in their very restrained response.


19 posted on 05/04/2014 8:12:15 PM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: PaulCruz2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Unn8wIQzAeE

Beach Boys, Student Demonstration time.

American was stunned on May fourth 1970, when rally turned to riot at the Kent State University.....

20 posted on 05/04/2014 8:15:18 PM PDT by where's_the_Outrage? (Held my nose to vote.)
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To: fwdude
Using an M1 Garand also showed that the 30-06 had lots more power than the M-16 mouse gun. The M2 bullet kept on going and going and going. Besides, it could have been worse.


21 posted on 05/04/2014 8:20:13 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need 7+ more ammo. LOTS MORE.)
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To: PaulCruz2016

They deserved getting shot. I doubt I will find any politician or reporter who will agree with me but they were running wild destroying property and hurling stones, bricks etc.

Someone needed to stop them even with deadly force.


22 posted on 05/04/2014 8:21:45 PM PDT by yarddog (Romans 8: verses 38 and 39. "For I am persuaded".)
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To: PaulCruz2016
They weren't all students.

At least one of them was just hanging around the revolution.

I was on the ground at Ohio State when this madness went on. I saw a lot--including organizers with walkie-talkies, and the same girl carried out of "battle" three times for the benefit of cameras.
23 posted on 05/04/2014 8:24:04 PM PDT by Nepeta
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To: PaulCruz2016
Almost everybody is familiar with the iconic photo of Mary Vecchio kneeling by the dead student. There was actually another photo taken of the same scene about 30 seconds prior. In the photo below, you can see Mary Vecchio at the far right as she approaches the body.

Just thought some would find that interesting for historical purposes. Don't know who the middle-age guy is in the foreground. Kind of looks like Albert Grossman - Bob Dylan's manager. I like all this history but damn, didn't anybody carry color cameras on that day? It's 1970 after all.


24 posted on 05/04/2014 8:24:46 PM PDT by SamAdams76
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To: lightman
This was worse than Waco.

What a stupid statement.

You can argue about whether or not Kent State was bad, but what does Waco have to do with it?

Is it a contest?

Or does the Left get One Free Pass at Waco because the Right killed students at Kent State?

25 posted on 05/04/2014 8:28:48 PM PDT by Haiku Guy (Health Care Haiku: If You Have a Right / To the Labor I Provide / I Must Be Your Slave)
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To: PaulCruz2016

No soldiers and Obama’s sleeping,
We’re always on our own.
This summer I hear the drumming,
Four dead in Benghazi-O.

Gotta get down to it
Al Qaeda is cutting us down
Should have been done long ago.
What if you knew them
And found them dead on the ground
How can you run when you know?

Gotta get down to it
Al Qaeda is cutting us down
Should have been done long ago.
What if you knew them?
And found them dead on the ground
How can you run when you know?

No soldiers and Obama’s sleeping,
We’re always on our own.
This summer I hear the drumming,
Four dead in Benghazi-O.


26 posted on 05/04/2014 8:30:11 PM PDT by Nachum (Obamacare: It's. The. Flaw.)
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To: 21twelve

Can you guess which age group most supported the war, and which was most against it?


27 posted on 05/04/2014 8:32:48 PM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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To: Nepeta

I wasn’t there but from what I read about it, two of those who were killed weren’t even at the demonstration but were in a parking lot that happened to be in the line of fire. Why the campus was carrying on as if it was business as usual, I don’t know. In the aftermath Governor Reagan closed all the public universities in California for several days.


28 posted on 05/04/2014 8:37:28 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: texican01; EagleOne

Demonstrations did not end entirely. I was at the University of Kentucky after Kent State. There were large street demonstrations, marches. The ROTC building was burned to the ground and the governor shutdown the campus with the National Guard arriving in personnel carriers, apparently well armed. The next few days there were sporadic demonstrations, somewhat quelled by tear gas.

Only later was it revealed that a disgruntled employee had taken the opportunity to torch the ROTC building, an event totally unrelated to the demonstrations.

I had not taken part in the demonstrations but I did after the Guard arrived as some of them had threatened to shoot one of my classmates, a girl trying to get to class, who did not know the campus was shutdown.


29 posted on 05/04/2014 8:37:29 PM PDT by DeFault User
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To: Haiku Guy

Raw goverment power against unarmed civilians.

I was saddened but not shocked by Waco because I’d lived through Kent State.


30 posted on 05/04/2014 8:39:57 PM PDT by lightman (O Lord, save Thy people and bless Thine inheritance, giving to Thy Church vict'ry o'er Her enemies.)
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To: lightman

This was unfortunate, and at worst a result of things going wrong, Waco was a mass massacre of innocents, that was formally dealt out with planning and preparation, and ruthless execution, yet with no explanation, it appeared to be a message massacre.


31 posted on 05/04/2014 8:43:13 PM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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To: Verginius Rufus
Why the campus was carrying on as if it was business as usual, I don’t know.

Because no one ever expected the military to start gunning them down.

32 posted on 05/04/2014 8:45:31 PM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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To: Verginius Rufus
Why the campus was carrying on as if it was business as usual, I don’t know.

Because there were a lot of us trying to get on with getting an education who were NOT raising hell. Most students were NOT involved. In the classes I took, heavily into the sciences, hardly anyone vanished during those days. The art majors were out there playing merry hell. They didn't fall out of bed until at least noon, so you could go just about anyplace without a problem until then.

I had to step over filthy hippies to get to some of my non-science classes. (And they did smell.)

Campus police always knew when things were going to get rough--I'd see them out by the Ag school taping up the glass in their cars.
33 posted on 05/04/2014 8:58:04 PM PDT by Nepeta
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To: MuttTheHoople

Correct.


34 posted on 05/04/2014 8:58:57 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: SamAdams76
Vecchio was a Junior High School runaway from Florida who was just hanging out and enjoying the demonstrations. Her iconic picture was on the cover of Time magazine. (a once somewhat credible publication)


35 posted on 05/04/2014 8:59:32 PM PDT by Baynative (How much longer will the media be able to prop up this administration?)
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To: ansel12
Because no one ever expected the military to start gunning them down.

The National Guard I dealt with when I showed my ID to get onto campus were always polite, but then, I was not screaming, rushing them, or throwing bricks at them.
36 posted on 05/04/2014 9:00:00 PM PDT by Nepeta
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To: PaulCruz2016

I was 16 at the time. I’ve read a bit on the event just like a lot of people.

I do know that many of the protesters were throwing bottles, bricks and rail spikes at the guardsmen.

Sooner or later, something was going to happen. There were some innocent bystanders that were killed, but how can the protesters escape at least some or most of the blame along with the National guardsmen for creating this situation?

I also remember that every left leaning idiot used the Kent State shootings as examples of American oppression - from Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young, to Life Magazine, to every talking head at the time.

A lot of working Americans, whom Nixon dubbed the “silent majority”, were not that upset because after the years of riots in the streets from 1967 to the 1968 Democrat Convention riots to Kent State, it seemed like traditional authority was unable or unwilling to deal with these so-called revolutionaries - who were nothing but Marxist/Communist instigators (Jerry Rubin, Abbie Hoffman, etc.).

The SDS and the Weathermen and other Marxist groups were absolutely jubilant after the shootings because they thought this would be the impetus to the “revolution” by the “people”.

So, my impression was that this whole thing was what the left wanted to happen as a propaganda event. Just as the left wants to use every gun related killing as justification for taking firearms away from American citizens.

Anyway, that was my memory of the event.


37 posted on 05/04/2014 9:04:25 PM PDT by rusty schucklefurd
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To: Nepeta

The National Guard of the time were nice, once when I was in a federal detainment camp with about 3,000 people who weren’t being fed or issued blankets for the days we were there, the Guard, who were supplying the bulk of the guards, fed us a tiny meal, I think a small hamburger, and the rumor was that they had raised the funds for us themselves, since no one else was going to give us anything and we hadn’t eaten since we had been scooped up, days before.


38 posted on 05/04/2014 9:09:17 PM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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To: SamAdams76

***Mary Vecchio kneeling by the dead student. ***

According to an article years ago, she later became a prostitute.


39 posted on 05/04/2014 9:11:52 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need 7+ more ammo. LOTS MORE.)
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To: ealgeone

This event slowed things down enough that the 1960s were clearly ending, since the adventure of the 60s was wrapping up, I adventured some more, won my permanent draft deferment in mid 1971, and then enlisted in the Army a few months later.


40 posted on 05/04/2014 9:14:52 PM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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To: PaulCruz2016

Well if the government said its was a justified execution them it must have been.

They know best. Just ask Obama.


41 posted on 05/04/2014 9:15:03 PM PDT by sickoflibs (Obama : 'You can keep your doctor if you want. I never tell a lie ')
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To: PaulCruz2016

I was doing business with a gentleman nearly twenty years now. He said his sister was involved with the radicals at Kent State and that when the lines were drawn between the students and National Guardsmen. That several of the radicals who were armed with handguns opened fire on the National Guard. Thus the soldiers were provoked into firing back.


42 posted on 05/04/2014 9:17:14 PM PDT by pleasenotcalifornia
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
All of those where I worked considered this the elimination of bad rubbish.

Really. I remember it quite well. Sandra Scheuer was my cousin.

She was shot through the throat with an M-1 rifle from a distance of 130 yards (119 m) while walking between classes and died within five or six minutes from loss of blood. According to the account of Bruce Burkland, a close family friend, Scheuer "was walking with one of her speech and hearing therapy students across the green.

Some friends you hang around with.
43 posted on 05/04/2014 9:19:55 PM PDT by PA Engineer (Liberate America from the Occupation Media.)
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To: rusty schucklefurd; 21twelve
People really have some wrong impressions of the youth of the time.
They also don't know that Vietnam was fought overwhelmingly by volunteers, unlike the draftee war, WWII.
They don't know that the under 30 year old vote, easily went republican in 1972.

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

44 posted on 05/04/2014 9:20:54 PM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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To: fwdude
These “students” were not protesting the Vietnam war; they had firebombed the ROTC building, had doused trees in gasoline and caught them on fire, basically terrorized the town residence for weeks and, at the time of the shootings, were throwing bricks and other debris at guardsmen, chanting “kill! Kill! Kill!”

The guardsmen were justified in their very restrained response.


Really?
45 posted on 05/04/2014 9:24:11 PM PDT by PA Engineer (Liberate America from the Occupation Media.)
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To: yarddog

all public opinion polls from that time supported what the guardsman did that day. The left and the media thought for sure this would bring down Nixon in 1972...when the man tells you to stop rioting, you stop rioting.


46 posted on 05/04/2014 9:24:52 PM PDT by basalt
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To: pleasenotcalifornia
I was doing business with a gentleman nearly twenty years now. He said his sister was involved with the radicals at Kent State and that when the lines were drawn between the students and National Guardsmen. That several of the radicals who were armed with handguns opened fire on the National Guard. Thus the soldiers were provoked into firing back.

Bullshit.
47 posted on 05/04/2014 9:26:59 PM PDT by PA Engineer (Liberate America from the Occupation Media.)
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To: ansel12

re: “People really have some wrong impressions of the youth of the time.”

I said nothing about the young people of that era. I was 16 when the Kent State shootings occurred. I was in college 2 years later myself. There were idiot leftwingers there at the time, but most of us just wanted to go to school and live our lives. I was one of those who voted for Nixon in 72.

There were idiot young people at the time and there were brave, courageous young people at the time as well - just like now. I guess I’m not sure why you directed your post to me.


48 posted on 05/04/2014 9:30:52 PM PDT by rusty schucklefurd
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To: ansel12

I was only 12 at the time. But I recall having Nixon Now bumper stickers on my book binders! But I seem to recall reading in one of Nixon’s memoirs how it was clear that America was in upheaval, and the war could not go on much longer, and that we needed to have “peace with honor” or whatever it was called.

As we withdrew, we handed over control to South Vietnam and they won a few more battles with our supplies (and air support?). But then after Watergate and Nixon’s resignation, and wanting all of it behind “us”, the democrats didn’t come through on our promised continued support. And it was only then that we loaded up what we could from the embassy roof and fled. Leaving our allies to bear the brunt.


49 posted on 05/04/2014 9:35:09 PM PDT by 21twelve (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2185147/posts 2013 is 1933 REBORN)
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To: rusty schucklefurd

It was an accident, I took awhile writing that post and it had nothing to do with you, or anyone really, it was just random information and I forgot that it would go to an individual, who would naturally be puzzled by it, think it was some kind of a strange response to something that he had said.


50 posted on 05/04/2014 9:36:45 PM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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