Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

UKRAINE: Intercepted Phone Calls Show Putin Called The Shots On European Hostages In Ukraine [AUDIO]
FORBES ^ | 5/04/2014 12:02PM | Paul Roderick Gregory

Posted on 05/05/2014 3:51:25 PM PDT by UMCRevMom@aol.com

As the Kremlin claims it cannot control separatist forces in east Ukraine, its clear orchestration of the release of kidnapped international observers shows the exact opposite.

Overshadowed by the Ukrainian assault on occupied towns in the Donbass industrial region, and by bloodshed in Odessa, is yesterday’s release of eight international observers from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) held hostage in Russia’s command and control center of Slovyansk. With Slovyansk under siege and the risk of Russian operatives being captured, Putin probably concluded he needed to get the black mark of the hostage taking of OSCE international observers off the agenda. It is enough that Putin’s local commanders would face murder charges for the well-documented killing of a local pro-Ukrainian politician.

Russia has publicly asserted that the hostage taking was a purely local matter, over which they have no influence or control.

Russia’s lie is exposed by tapped phone calls, obtained by the Ukraine Security Service (SBU), that took place on May 1 and 2 between Colonel Igor Girkin (alias Igor Strelkov), the military commander of the “People’s Republic of Donetsk,” and Putin’s special envoy, Vladimir Lukin.

(Excerpt) Read more at forbes.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: putin; ukraine

1 posted on 05/05/2014 3:51:25 PM PDT by UMCRevMom@aol.com
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: UMCRevMom@aol.com

“tapped phone calls, obtained by the Ukraine Security Service (SBU),”

Ukraine doesn’t have the capability to intercept comms.
The NSA, however....


2 posted on 05/05/2014 4:04:55 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: tcrlaf

It’s overseas where the NSA should be directing it’s efforts.

I don’t have a problem if the NSA did do this.

Now, what about Putin’s actions here?

You have nothing to say about the core issue?


3 posted on 05/05/2014 4:48:44 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: tcrlaf

I hope the NSA is helping the Ukrainians.


4 posted on 05/05/2014 4:54:47 PM PDT by vladimir998
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: DoughtyOne

SO, this is the gospel truth, but the Russian intercepts of Nuland and the US State Department never happened??

Make up your mind, will ya?


5 posted on 05/05/2014 4:58:52 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: tcrlaf

Nuland and the US State Department were conspiring to take hostages and or control their fate after the fact? Really?

I guess I missed that.


6 posted on 05/05/2014 5:08:57 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: DoughtyOne

Agree, this is what the NSA is supposed to do. Only they are not supposed to leak out.


7 posted on 05/05/2014 5:19:12 PM PDT by Defiant (Let the Tea Party win, and we will declare peace on the American people and go home.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: DoughtyOne
It's a voice recording any reasonably capable person much less an intelligence group could put you in that recording if they have a sufficiently clear sample of your voice to begin with. They're way, way, beyond cutting and pasting words from multiple samples together and they can whip out whatever they think will float.

Besides, didn't Merkel ask Putin to do whatever he could to get them released?

So, he assigns someone to work that out if possible and they do work it out, it's proof that he wasn't doing what the people who want the hostages out asked him to do?

I'm missing how this is anything other than proof that Putin tried to do what he was asked to do and succeeded. That's sinister?

8 posted on 05/05/2014 5:28:59 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Defiant

They didn’t. The Ukraine claimed the find...


9 posted on 05/05/2014 5:42:54 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Rashputin

If it is precisely as you described it, no.

To the extent it varies from your description, the more it does seem problematic.


10 posted on 05/05/2014 5:54:46 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: tcrlaf

With Snowden keeping Putin informed I doubt he’s stupid enough not to know his phones are tapped.


11 posted on 05/05/2014 5:54:58 PM PDT by VerySadAmerican
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: tcrlaf
They're voice recordings so they're probably both bogus or at least edited, have parts "redacted", etc.

Show me proof the people on the recordings were where at the two ends of the link they claim to have recorded at the time of the recording and the odds they're accurate, genuine, recordings like they claim to be goes all the way up to 50/50.

12 posted on 05/05/2014 5:55:25 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: DoughtyOne
Too many chefs stirring in the stew and claiming to find nuggets of gold for me to believe any of them.

The SBU? Please, they don't have an agenda, do they? Those guys couldn't even tell the people in Kiev their Parachute Brigade was unreliable and shouldn't be sent to East Ukraine but they're wizards with intelligence?

13 posted on 05/05/2014 5:57:47 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Rashputin

I don’t necessarily disagree with that. None the less, there is the element of plausible denyability, and that’s essentially all a clandestine operation needs to defer responsibility.

Do you see this as an evil act on the part of the NSA, providing it is the entity that provided the information?

There is the off chance that the Ukraine came up with this on their own.


14 posted on 05/05/2014 6:03:17 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: DoughtyOne
If it's the NSA then intercepting is doing their job instead of breaking both the letter and intent of the law that governs them, why would that be evil? It would be a refreshing change from putting most of their resources into watching the US, but not evil by any means unless they created a fake which, technically, they cannot do.

That's what the CIA is for and they're only supposed to generate fakes pursuant to a specific National Security directive signed by the President. Now, the President wouldn't specify means, just "disinformation guys" and they'd be off and running but you see what I mean I'm sure.

As for the transcript, I don't even see someone trying to maintain plausible denyability in those, that's one of the red flags to me. There are just too many ways they could have talked about other things and made all the same points with no one the wiser.

It's like they're trying to keep casual listeners who might overhear them from knowing the exact timing or some such. Maybe the local guy was concerned that everyone wouldn't go along with the release and such a concern on his part seems to fit the bill better than hiding some scheme that Moscow has been running.

Hey, you can read it a lot of ways. It just seems a little odd that when the hostages are released and someone somewhere may say that's a sign Putin is interested in keeping the lid on the SBU comes up with "proof" of what? That a Russian guy got the people released, so, the Russians must have been behind the whole thing.

That's a little like King Barry suddenly releasing his phone conversations with a half dozen different groups in the ME telling him there's no way he can rescue the people on the ground now that the lid's blown off of Libya. Convenient.

15 posted on 05/05/2014 6:20:33 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Rashputin
If it's the NSA then intercepting is doing their job instead of breaking both the letter and intent of the law that governs them, why would that be evil? It would be a refreshing change from putting most of their resources into watching the US, but not evil by any means unless they created a fake which, technically, they cannot do.

Welll, technically, they can do it.  Hell, you and I could do it.   Legally?  No.  I'm not convinced they have placed anywhere near their total resources in domestic intercepts.  I am unahppy they have put any into this.

That's what the CIA is for and they're only supposed to generate fakes pursuant to a specific National Security directive signed by the President. Now, the President wouldn't specify means, just "disinformation guys" and they'd be off and running but you see what I mean I'm sure.

Yes.  I believe so.

As for the transcript, I don't even see someone trying to maintain plausible denyability in those, that's one of the red flags to me. There are just too many ways they could have talked about other things and made all the same points with no one the wiser.

Perhaps so...

It's like they're trying to keep casual listeners who might overhear them from knowing the exact timing or some such. Maybe the local guy was concerned that everyone wouldn't go along with the release and such a concern on his part seems to fit the bill better than hiding some scheme that Moscow has been running.

Clandestine waters become merky at some point...   Smiles....

Hey, you can read it a lot of ways. It just seems a little odd that when the hostages are released and someone somewhere may say that's a sign Putin is interested in keeping the lid on the SBU comes up with "proof" of what? That a Russian guy got the people released, so, the Russians must have been behind the whole thing.'

There's some reason in that.  I agree...  (hating it all the way mind you)  LOL

That's a little like King Barry suddenly releasing his phone conversations with a half dozen different groups in the ME telling him there's no way he can rescue the people on the ground now that the lid's blown off of Libya. Convenient.

Pershaps so, but lets not go there while we're in somewhat of an agreeemnt to agree to a certain extent prior to the interjection of this fine mess... LOL

16 posted on 05/05/2014 6:49:39 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: UMCRevMom@aol.com

Ok, so if Putin does nothing. He is responsible for them being held. But If he calls the hostage takers and uses his considerable influence to have them released, he is responsible. That’s a neat trick.

And by this logic, Obama and the CIA is calling the shots in Kiev. After all, they contact them and tell them what they should be doing.

So which is it young feller?


17 posted on 05/05/2014 9:22:20 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998

“I hope the NSA is helping the Ukrainians.”

Oh,,I’m almost certain they are. They side with evil worldwide. They illegally spy on the American people and hounded Snowden for telling us about it, they supported the moslem brotherhood in Egypt and Libya, they support Al Qeida in Syria, and the Moslems in Kosovo. I don’t see any reason they wouldn’t support national socialists doing the EUs bidding in Kiev.


18 posted on 05/05/2014 9:27:33 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: DoughtyOne
"Welll, technically, they can do it. Hell, you and I could do it. "

I wasn't clear, I used technically with regard to the tecnincalities of the law.

19 posted on 05/05/2014 11:13:58 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: tcrlaf

.....”Ukraine doesn’t have the capability to intercept communications”.....

Correct. However that has now become the focus of the Kiev Gov. “insiders” to change that.

Recalling now how Commuications were completely gone between Crimea Military and their Base and why they couldn’t act...no orders were getting in or out.

When you add to the mix many Ukranians do not want to fight what they “perceive” is their own people....so the Military has that issues as well as the Military itself has been infilitrated for some time.

I believe that might be why Keiv. Gov. hired the Right Sector, (under the disguise of a “New National Guard), as the Right are brutal as we’ve seen already, and will not hesitate from going after Russians.


20 posted on 05/05/2014 11:26:54 PM PDT by caww
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: DesertRhino

I think it was after Brennan went there that it was clear the Ukraine Army couldn’t communicate with their equipment....and Anti-Kiev forces could easily pick up their communication...heck they were posting it on twitter!

They really aren’t well trained, even the head guy said the Military wasn’t even close to being battle ready. 20% I believe he had mentioned. So all this heavy fighting going on is coming from “other” sources.

There’s not only Americans there, but Italians and others now. Ukraine can’t fight their own battle by any means without outside military and this has been well known and understood from the get go.


21 posted on 05/05/2014 11:32:29 PM PDT by caww
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Rashputin

Okay, thanks for the clarification.


22 posted on 05/05/2014 11:37:07 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: DesertRhino

I am neither young (64) nor a man
(UMCRevMom=United Methodist Clergy Reverend Mom)

Condescension aside, This Forbes article establishes the case extremely well.

Putin is responsible for putting infiltrating Ukraine government over years & “feet on the ground” recently.
You may fine the ‘taped’ phone messages interesting. Especially, this point extremely illuminating: “In their calls, Lukin refers to “verification from the highest levels.” As the President’s special envoy, I imagine this refers to Putin himself. It also appears that Girkin/Strelkov has to make calls to clear new “things” with higher-ups, such as admitting Council of Europe members along with Lukin.”

So, Putin is indited both and then some...


23 posted on 05/06/2014 3:21:37 AM PDT by UMCRevMom@aol.com
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: DesertRhino

“. I don’t see any reason they wouldn’t support national socialists doing the EUs bidding in Kiev.”

Maybe you should step back from the Russian propaganda and realize that even Jews support Maidan.


24 posted on 05/06/2014 4:43:35 AM PDT by vladimir998
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson