Posted on 05/07/2014 8:09:15 PM PDT by smokingfrog
Ever since a 10-year-old boy was shot and killed in Pike County over the weekend when his uncle was showing off weapons he thought were unloaded, There has been attention and scrutiny on the safety of the gun that went off.
Northeast Firearms in Honesdale sells the Glock 27, the weapon used in the shooting death of Hunter Pedersen.
State police said his uncle was showing off the weapon and pulled the trigger not realizing there was a bullet in the chamber.
The question now is: Could the gun be made safer?
Mike Jones took apart a Glock 27 for us at his gun shop. He said the Glock 27 is a popular model, one that comes without a so-called “external safety.”
It was the same gun, equipped with a laser sight, that wound up killing a 5th grader from Wayne County over the weekend.
Hunter Pedersen was killed when his uncle showed off the weapon Saturday and pulled the trigger.
People came out to support the boy’s family during a candlelight vigil near Honesdale Tuesday.
“I don’t want to ever see another family go through something like this. We are all heartbroken,” said Linda Honickel, the boy’s grandmother.
Chad Olm, the boy’s uncle, is charged with homicide. Investigators said he never checked to see if there was a bullet in the chamber.
“All guns are dangerous and sometimes people disrespect them. And that’s where the problems begin,” said Jones.
Jones said the first rule of gun safety is not to point the gun at anything or anyone unless you intend to shoot. Jones doesn’t believe the gun is to blame for Hunter’s death. The Glock, he said, does not go off unless you pull the trigger.
(Excerpt) Read more at wnep.com ...
Have at it.
sepuku!
I agree, my safety is my trigger finger.
The gun was almost certainly double-action, and it was not fired accidentally, unless you count an idiot in action as 'accidental'.
The only time I’m sure my gun is unloaded is when it is fully disassembled on the table.
I like your Grandpa.
I have only rarely shown a weapon to a non family member. They were all current, former, or future military. In every case step one upon picking up the weapon was to drop the mag or confirm mag well empty, then visually inspect the chamber, then rack the action several times to functionally confirm the weapon was empty. Even if you know it is people, do it! You are training yourself to make this automatic habit.
I’ve never handled a Glock. I own a few Rugers and S&Ws.
What is it about Glocks that creeps you out?
Stupid people + stupid Glock design = time bomb.
Fella brought a Sig 9mm to me to have a reduced hammer spring installed, to make the double action manageable for his wife. When he took it out of the cloth wrap he brought it over in I asked if it was loaded. He assured me it was not and removed the mag to show me it was empty. He then pulled the slide back to show it had nothing in the chamber, but he didn't have it where I could see the empty barrel. There was a discernible 'smack' when he released the slide.
Turns out he did not pull the slide back any where near far enough eject a round and the extractor was ot working 100 percent.
He handed the gun to me and said the double action pull was too stiff (used military police pistol). I accepted the pistol from him and used the hammer drop to lower the hammer. But when I tested the double action trigger --pointed in a safe direction at the floor away from any people-- the weapon fired when the hammer dropped.
Nice 9mm hole in my hardwood flooring! ALWAYS do the full checklist for yourself if anyone hands to you a gun, of any kind, even a BB gun.
“You can’t make guns idiot-proof, unfortunately. “
Safe gun handling alone would have prevented this tragedy of stupidity. Every gun is to be treated as though it is loaded at ALL times.
Mechanical safeties and gun mechanisms in general can also fail no matter how they are designed.
Oh, I absolutely clear the gun of all rounds before starting to take it apart. But I still treat it like its loaded: I don’t allow it to point toward any person, I keep my finger off the trigger. I don’t let it out if my direct control.
But once the barrel is separated from the fun, I’m not concerned about what is in front of it.
personally i don’t want the safety in the trigger itself.
My kids could recite the safety rules forwards and backwards. They would recite them to me on their own as we were pulling into the range parking lot. It just saved time since I would not let them out of the car until they did so.
Today son and daughter are both safe gun owners and good shots too.
Yep. Good thing you pointed it in a safe direction. That's why the 4 rules work - overlap. Even when human nature or mistakes negate one of them, the others (if followed) can save your backside.
I've noticed that at gun shops the guy/gal will check a weapon pulled out of a case and hand it to you. I always check it myself before examining it further. When handed back to the guy/gal he/she will always check it again before returning it to the case. When my son asked about that "Dad, do you think he made a mistake? Does he think you loaded it before handing it back?" I told him honestly no - neither of us believed the weapon to be loaded. However, we weren't worried about that weapon, we are training ourselves so that safety becomes habit - for the next weapon we pick up.
Not trying to start a flame war. I know Glocks are fine. But to me it feels like a 1911 with the safety flicked off. I know it has internals that are very reliable to prevent discharge unless the trigger is pulled. But there it is, a trigger that’s not really double action. I can’t shake the feeling that I’m basically holstering a 1911 or a Browning 9mm with the safety off.
“However, we weren’t worried about that weapon, we are training ourselves so that safety becomes habit - for the next weapon we pick up.”
To me it is also good manners to show it is empty. Also having muzzle control. Nothing worse than being in a gun store and some yahoo crosses your body with the barrel. Even in a gun case mine is always pointed away from anything.
An aside. I went trap shooting with my young son. He learned the safety rules on his BB gun, and follows them with whatever weapon he has. (Getting your bb gun taken away for a week at the age of 8 or whenever it was leaves an impression).
After a frustrating first day of it, I hired the local instructor for an hour just for some basic tips for my son. (He was doing really well after the guy pointed out three things.)
Anyway, I didn’t know - but the instructor told him to point the gun out towards the grass when chambering a round, rather than down. In case of a shell firing when chambered, and hitting the asphalt in front of you and getting crap back at you.
The instructor WAS very impressed by my son’s trigger finger always being in a safe spot until firing. (Made me proud). “Yeah, except whenever I’m watching a movie I’m always looking at their trigger finger, and it bothers me when they’re doing it wrong.”
And really the Glock design is brilliant for its intended purpose. It was designed to be a service pistol for the Austrian Army. Soldiers generally carry pistols in a webgear holster full mag, empty chamber. Running the slide upon imminent use.
In that world its a masterpiece. The finish is utterly impervious too the elements. The frame is too. The manual of arms couldn’t be simpler. Its perfect for the Armorer to keep going. It’ll handle very hot loads.
But in the other world of shooters, carried round chambered, Mexican style in your jeans waistband, shoved into a low-end Kydex holster, or a sloppy leather or ill fitting generic nylon cloth holster, you’re asking for trouble in my opinion. Triggers will work as advertised when touched by bad equipment just as with a finger.
BTW, we both remained perfectly still, deafened from the sound of that 9mm going off in my shop! I now keep electronic earmuffs beside my bed.
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