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Russia orders Ukraine to pre-pay for gas
Global Post/ Agence France-Presse ^ | 5-8-2014 | AFP

Posted on 05/08/2014 6:29:52 PM PDT by tcrlaf

Russia ordered crisis-hit Ukraine on Thursday to pay upfront for all its future natural gas deliveries because of billions of dollars in outstanding debts.

The largely-anticipated announcement imperils supplies to a large swathe of the European Union because nearly 15 percent of all Russian gas consumed by the 28-nation bloc transits through Ukraine.

Ukraine has refused to meet the deadline in protest over Russia's decision to nearly double the price it charges its neighbour for gas imports following the February overthrow of a Kremlin-backed regime in Kiev.

(Excerpt) Read more at globalpost.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: civilwar; gas; putinsbuttboys; russia; surrendermonkeys; ukraine
Putin/Gazprom just laid down a "red-Line" to Ukraine.
1 posted on 05/08/2014 6:29:52 PM PDT by tcrlaf
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To: tcrlaf

M&M Enterprises: Milo says MIF for Ukraine


2 posted on 05/08/2014 6:32:24 PM PDT by NonValueAdded (Operating out of weakness? Imagine if he was working from a position of strength!)
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To: tcrlaf

Next step would be Ukraine say it’s half the market price is ‘unfair’ and refuses to pay it at all, Russia cuts supply and Ukraine is stealing it’s ‘fair share’ from Russian export bound Europe via pipelines on it’s territory.
Then EU blames Russia for failure to resolve.

I have no problem with pro-Western Ukraine if not for the one thing. Obama and EU wants their political control over Ukraine to have a leverage over Russia, but at the same time they want Russia to support Ukraine.
Why won’t EU or Obama pay for Ukrainian gas and constantly bailout Ukrainian industries looted by Ukrainian politicians?
It would be fair to demand Russian navy out of Ukraine in this case.
On the other hand Russia would tax the extra revenue from Gazprom, earned via free trade like that to build a warm water port in Cuba or Venezuela.
What do you think about it?


3 posted on 05/08/2014 6:49:56 PM PDT by wetphoenix
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To: tcrlaf

“Putin/Gazprom just laid down a “red-Line” to Ukraine.”

No, Russia owes the Ukraine upwards of $15 Billion in overpayments for the natural gas, more money for the breach of contract when Russia contracted for lower rates in exchange for basing privileges in the Crimea, and even more money in ongoing damages and punitive damages for the occupation and looting of the Ukraine’s Crimean territories.

Ukraine overpays almost USD 15 billion to Gazprom - expert
Ukrinform ^ | 08.05.2014 16:08 | Ukrinform

KYIV, May 8 /Ukrinform/. The Ukrainian side overpaid almost USD 15 billion over duration of the gas contract between Gazprom and Naftogaz of Ukraine.


4 posted on 05/08/2014 6:52:44 PM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: WhiskeyX

When I was first out of college my apartment was heated by an oil furnace. I was on a “budget” plan, and of course I did not budget well and I fell behind. After 30 days I had to pay cash up front for my oil for six months before I could get any credit.

In New England you need to make sure your oil was delivered regularly. It gets awful cold.

I learned if you don’t pay your bills life can get very expensive.


5 posted on 05/08/2014 7:02:11 PM PDT by Vermont Lt (If you want to keep your dignity, you can keep it. Period........ Just kidding, you can't keep it.)
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To: tcrlaf
They didn't "order" them to do anything.

They are demanding advance payment as Ukraine tends to be late on its bills.

6 posted on 05/08/2014 7:06:01 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: Vermont Lt

Stop making sense! It sounds so capitalist to him /s


7 posted on 05/08/2014 7:07:46 PM PDT by wetphoenix
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To: Mariner

Yeah, a neutral headline would have read, “Gazprom declines to extend further credit to Ukraine.”


8 posted on 05/08/2014 7:12:18 PM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know...)
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To: Vermont Lt

Evidently, the Ukraine already paid its bill for the Russian natural gas, but Russia is cheating in an effort to destabilize the Ukrainian economy and political affairs. News reports indicate the Ukraine is taking the dispute to arbitration and court with a case strong enough to very likely win a court decision against Russia that Russia will then ignore. See:

Ukraine overpays almost USD 15 billion to Gazprom - expert
Ukrinform ^ | 08.05.2014 16:08 | Ukrinform

KYIV, May 8 /Ukrinform/. The Ukrainian side overpaid almost USD 15 billion over duration of the gas contract between Gazprom and Naftogaz of Ukraine.

Then there are the damages Russia owes to the Ukraine for Russia’s breach of contract. Russia contracted to charge certain lower rates for deliveries of certain quantities of natural gas to the Ukraine in exchange for the privilege of using Ukrainian naval ports and military bases in the Crimea for a limited period of time. Russia abrogated that contract with its invasion and conquest of the Crimea, termination of the agreement, and theft of the Crimea. Also do not forget that the Ukraine has the right to claim actual damages and punitive damages from Russia for the occupation and looting of the Ukraine’s territories in the Crimea.

If anyone owes anything to anyone, Russia is liable for ruinous criminal damage to the Ukraine for breach of contract, criminal theft, criminal breach of the peace, and criminal breaches of human rights.


9 posted on 05/08/2014 7:17:34 PM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: Mariner

“They are demanding advance payment as Ukraine tends to be late on its bills.”

That is a lie and the further dissemination of Russian false propaganda. Russia has been overcharging the Ukraine and failed to fulfill its contractual obligation to make the required deliveries called for in the contract. Russia owes the Ukraine upwards of $15 billion in overpayments, and not the other way around.


10 posted on 05/08/2014 7:21:29 PM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: tcrlaf

Russia could demand pre-payment for future gas deliveries in gold.

Russia could charge a surtax on fuel deliveries to EU member states that could be used to provide gas at no cost to Ukraine. Letting them put their money where their mouths are...I wonder what they would say about such a thing? I think Ukraine would love the idea... Everyone wins! Putin gets more $$, the EU gets the satisfaction of providing free fuel to the hapless Ukrainians, and the IMF has to shell out less money (this means the US taxpayer gets relief).

Russia controls the entire situation because they control the fuel. They can demand payment in gold. They can add a surcharge to pay for Ukrainian fuel and to pay down Ukraine’s past-due fuel debt. They could even add a surcharge to pay for the cost of any sanctions taken against them. The EU can pay for the fuel and the surcharges in gold or go without fuel or ship in fuel at much higher prices from another provider.

One thing is certain, if Ukraine/EU get fuel from other providers it will end up being the US taxpayer that will pay the entire additional cost.

The only way that Russia comes out the loser in any of this is if the US taxpayer is forced to pay the enormous cost that would be incurred to provide fuel for the EU and Ukraine. Russia is better able to absorb the loss of fuel revenue from sales to the EU than the US is able to pay the cost if they undertake to ship fuel by sea to The EU...the cost for the US would be crippling...and no one else would be willing to absorb any part of such a cost, the US will foot the entire bill alone.

It would make me very happy if someone could detail a plan of action that would force Russia to provide gas if they do not wish to do so. The EU has allowed themselves to be put in such a miserable position. I sincerely hope the US taxpayer does not end up the big loser in this gas war.


11 posted on 05/08/2014 7:28:21 PM PDT by Bobalu (What cannot be programmed cannot be physics)
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To: The_Reader_David

Ukraine overpays almost USD 15 billion to Gazprom - expert

KYIV, May 8 /Ukrinform/. The Ukrainian side overpaid almost USD 15 billion over duration of the gas contract between Gazprom and Naftogaz of Ukraine.

This was announced by director of energy programs of the Centre Nomos Mykhailo Honchar at a press conference in Kyiv, Ukrinform reports.

“On the gas contract with Gazprom, Ukraine overpaid USD 14-15 billion,” Honchar said.

The expert said that considering the European market prices for gas, at which Gazprom is selling hydrocarbons, Ukraine was paying more to the provider throughout the whole period of the gas contract.

“Even the price of USD 268.5 per 1,000 cubic meters, which Russia presented as preferential for Ukraine, was at that time higher than the price on the spot market in Europe,” the expert said.

He also noted that Gazprom under the existing contract had to transport through Ukraine annually to 112 billion cubic meters of gas, which it did not observe (last year, 87 billion cubic meters were transported - Ed.), due to this Ukraine has suffered losses of about USD 5 billion.

“For the first time, not a backstage dispute will be resolved in relations between Ukraine and Russia, but openly at the Stockholm Chamber of Commerce, and Ukraine has all chances to win,” Mykhailo Honchar noted.


Note, Russia breached and then abrogated its contract with the Ukraine which exchanged the privilege of using naval and military bases in the Crimea for deliveries of natural gas at prices substantially lower than the spot market.


12 posted on 05/08/2014 7:29:02 PM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: WhiskeyX

Have you ever read this contract?


13 posted on 05/08/2014 7:34:11 PM PDT by wetphoenix
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To: wetphoenix

“Have you ever read this contract?”

There were multiple agreements and associated contracts, not just one contract. Putin’s regime recently passed a Russian law authorizing the Russian Government to terminate a number of those agreements and the associated contracts. Russia is not trying to impose a new contract without the Ukraine providing an agreement to do so.


14 posted on 05/08/2014 7:49:28 PM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: wetphoenix

Gee. March 19 2014 sign up and already trolling for Putin full time or did something happen to the previous account?

So you believe everything spat out by the Russian KGB propaganda machine but you question someone outed the Putin lie machine?


15 posted on 05/08/2014 7:52:28 PM PDT by ncalburt ( Amnesty-media out in full force)
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To: tcrlaf

The EU can go freeze in the dark!!!


16 posted on 05/08/2014 8:03:14 PM PDT by dalereed
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To: WhiskeyX
" Russia has been overcharging the Ukraine and failed to fulfill its contractual obligation to make the required deliveries called for in the contract. Russia owes the Ukraine upwards of $15 billion in overpayments, and not the other way around."

OK, I'm interested.

Is there a non-Ukrainian source for that contention?

17 posted on 05/08/2014 8:37:07 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: Mariner
"Is there a non-Ukrainian source for that contention?" As of October 2013 Lithuania, Poland, Ukraine, and perhaps others were taking action against Gazprom for overcharging by billions of dollars. One of the sources for these stories is the official Russian government controlled news agency. Their complaints like that of the Ukraine today were being taken to a Swedish venue for a resolution. See the new post: Lithuania wants Gazprom to pay back $1.5 billion it has overpaid ITAR-TASS News Agency ^ | October 04, 13:09 | Russian Press Review Posted on ‎5‎/‎8‎/‎2014‎ ‎9‎:‎14‎:‎34‎ ‎PM by WhiskeyX
18 posted on 05/08/2014 9:19:34 PM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: WhiskeyX

Sorry there was no link or URL that I could copy from that.


19 posted on 05/08/2014 9:36:06 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: Mariner

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3153943/posts


20 posted on 05/08/2014 9:38:09 PM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: Mariner

Although the allegation originated with the Ukrainian government in this article, it did so in 2013, before Yanukovych quit the Ukraine. See:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3153946/posts


21 posted on 05/08/2014 9:41:25 PM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: WhiskeyX
OK, I just looked it up.

Honestly it looks to me like both Lithuania and Ukraine (and a few others) are pissed because they believe Gazprom is charging unfair prices.

The numbers you cite are what these countries contend they SHOULD have paid if Gazprom was fair.

Gazprom contends that's the price, pay it or we stop shipping our gas to you.

Sheesh, that's like me going to the gas station and filling up for $80, driving the tank empty and then telling Chevron they owe me $20 because they artificially increased the price above fair market value.

If they don't like what Gazprom charges they can buy it someplace else. There are bunches of LPG tankers in the world.

22 posted on 05/08/2014 9:46:08 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: WhiskeyX
Yes and several EU countries are going after Gazprom for anti-competitive practices, monopoly and arbitrarily raising prices.

And every one of them knew what the price would be before the gas shipped.

They're likely to recover substantial monies if Gazprom and Russia decide to play along and admit they were charging more than necessary to make a modest profit.

But if they decide not to play, they just turn off the spigot and tell them to buy elsewhere.

It make take time to re-jigger things but BOTH parties can find alternatives.

23 posted on 05/08/2014 10:01:35 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: Mariner

“Honestly it looks to me like both Lithuania and Ukraine (and a few others) are pissed because they believe Gazprom is charging unfair prices.”

“The numbers you cite are what these countries contend they SHOULD have paid if Gazprom was fair.”

No, you are misrepresenting the facts. The complaints from the many European nations against Russia’s Gazprom monopoly is its noncompliance with the terms of the contracts and regulatory laws. Gazprom is alleged to have overcharged the prices and quantities set forth in the terms of the contracts. These allegations have already been confirmed in at least one case by an arbitration court ruling in favor of Germany’s RWE complaint against Gazprom overcharges. See the Freerepublic post.


24 posted on 05/08/2014 10:04:52 PM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: ncalburt

~Gee. March 19 2014 sign up and already trolling for Putin full time or did something happen to the previous account?

So you believe everything spat out by the Russian KGB propaganda machine but you question someone outed the Putin lie machine?~

It is a projection on your part.
You have picked side and ignoring any wrong with it. I guess the reason is that you hate everything Russian.
I’m fully aware that both sides are using propaganda and I’m not even a Putin supporter but I don’t think Russia is wrong all the time.
Both sides are wrong in Ukraine right now but I can see more sense behind Russian actions, much less behing Ukrainian self-appointed government.


25 posted on 05/08/2014 10:35:53 PM PDT by wetphoenix
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