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Ukrainian Crisis is about Taxes
American Thinker ^ | May 9. 2014 | Chriss Street

Posted on 05/09/2014 4:04:00 AM PDT by Rashputin

The bloody crisis between the pro-Western two thirds of Ukraine and pro-Russian third of the country is about taxes. The recent $17 billion International Monetary Fund (IMF) loan required Ukraine on May 1st to raise taxes and increase natural gas prices by 50%. With about 58% of the Ukraine’s industry in the eastern zone and workers there making about 50% higher wages, the east is paying the majority of the tax increase. Although residential users will not feel pain from the natural gas price increase until fall, eastern heavy industry is feeling the pain immediately. With the corrupt west raising taxes for the IMF, why is there any surprise the east is rebelling?

(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: agitprop; coup; economy; imf; irs; obama; putin; putinsbuttboys; russia; surrendermonkeys; taxburden; taxes; ukraine
Apparently everyone doesn't buy the propaganda about it being all the fault of Russia that Eastern Ukraine is in an uproar ever since the mob took over in Kiev.
1 posted on 05/09/2014 4:04:00 AM PDT by Rashputin
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To: Rashputin
And that is what the EU is about....The money comes from the World Bank...which is funded chiefly by the USA.

We gain absolutely nothing and the only thing Ukraine gains is new obligations which will hurt its own people.

2 posted on 05/09/2014 4:11:17 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: Rashputin

So Putin invading a sovereign nation is justified? Wherever there’s corruption and high taxes.

That pretty much sums up all of Europe.


3 posted on 05/09/2014 4:14:40 AM PDT by samtheman
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To: Sacajaweau
Van Rompuy: If The Public Doesn't Want EU Expansion, 'We Do It Anyway'
4 posted on 05/09/2014 4:29:15 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin.)
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To: Rashputin

In was clear since the beginning that one of the objectives of Kiev authorities is to kill off Ukrainian industries and turn their country into a source of cheap export labor and a market for Western Europe.
One in two jobs in Ukraine is working for Russian market, and probably 8 in 10 highest paid jobs.
Yet, former government which has opted for tariff-free exports to Russia and $15 billion bailout are ‘sellouts’, and imposing unbearable EU regulations on national businesses and closing Russian market for a prospect to ‘probably once in a future’ allow Ukrainians travel to EU to be immigrant labor is a good thing?
I guess non-working and low-wage Ukraians are backing their new government dreaming about German EBT-card and urban ‘intellectual’ useful idiots are all about hope and change dope.
What about educated hard-working people, who are building ships and aircraft and won’t keep their jobs?


5 posted on 05/09/2014 4:35:25 AM PDT by wetphoenix
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To: samtheman
Invading?

Please, if Russia were even giving Eastern Ukraine serious help the "anti-terrorist" Ukrainian troops now shooting Ukrainian civilians here and there would be nothing but a burning column of APCs.

6 posted on 05/09/2014 4:35:37 AM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Rashputin

We don’t have to exonerate Putin in order to see that a great deal of East Ukraine will willingly cleave to Russia.

Just as we can see that Western Ukraine will never abide Russia - because of long, tyrannical, genocidal repression by Russia.

The fault lines in Ukraine are obvious. The US has a sensible self-interest in preventing the re-establishment of the USSR: we must (for instance) defend Poland from falling back into a new Warsaw pact. We should at the same time be strongly in favor of self-determination for both West and East Ukraine.

And we should absolutely drill, baby drill. If Gazprom had had competition in Europe from American LNG exports these last five years, then Putin wouldn’t be flexing his muscles.


7 posted on 05/09/2014 4:37:06 AM PDT by agere_contra (I once saw a movie where only the police and military had guns. It was called 'Schindler's List'.)
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To: samtheman

~So Putin invading a sovereign nation is justified?~

Of course no. But you are looking from a samtheman perspective.
Now imagine you are Putin, you are sitting in Kremlin and you have an ugly turmoil with your ally which is responsible for export of your major commodity (and it is only one thing why Ukraine is important for him).


8 posted on 05/09/2014 4:39:05 AM PDT by wetphoenix
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To: Sacajaweau
we gain absolutely nothing and the only thing Ukraine gains is new obligations which will hurt its own people

The EU gains another source of labor to exploit and a country that won't have to follow EU rules for manufacturing and farming. The oligarchs get even richer and more powerful and the people get impossible debt, and they'll never see membership in the EU or NATO.

There are things that are being ignored that are disturbing. First of all, does the temporary gov in Kiev have the right to accept this financial deal for Ukraine? Will voting them out negate the obligation? The other thing is those darn neoNazis being organized into military units. The EU has to be concerned that there's nothing to stop them and their movement from spilling over into the EU. Do Germany, Poland, and Latvia seriously want to worry about that?

I have to assume there is stuff going on behind the scenes to stop the insanity....before it spreads to Europe, with the problems it's already created for itself.

What am I missing here?

9 posted on 05/09/2014 4:41:40 AM PDT by grania
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To: wetphoenix
What about educated and hard-working people who are building ships and aircrafts and won't keep their jobs?

What about them? Will the jobs and those people, already part of the Russian culture move to Russia and the parts of Ukraine that gain independence or join Russia? It would give Russia a boost in population that speaks the language, is part of the culture, is educated, hardwoking, and gives Russia a population and economic boost. And Ukraine keeps....the oligarchs, neoNazis, and cheap exploited labor.

10 posted on 05/09/2014 4:47:30 AM PDT by grania
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To: Rashputin
IMF warns Ukraine on bailout if it loses east. In other word suppress the revolution in Eastern Ukraine or no money for you. Can you say extortion?
11 posted on 05/09/2014 4:52:00 AM PDT by McGruff (Don't believe everything you read on the Internet. And anything from the MSM.)
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To: McGruff
Oddly enough, just coincidence I'm sure, the next day the Kiev crowd announced they were resuming "anti-terrorist" opoerations that had been suspended when a Parachute Brigade defected to the locals in Eastern Ukraine.

They did what the guy they overthrew never did, they commanded the Ukrainian Army to attack Ukrainiuan civilian protesters and use lethal force where they saw fit to do so.

You have to wonder what sort of squealing and crying there would be from the Kiev PR regurgitators had the guy they threw out done the same thing in Kiev they're doing all over Eastern Ukraine.

12 posted on 05/09/2014 4:59:30 AM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: grania

~What about them? Will the jobs and those people, already part of the Russian culture move to Russia and the parts of Ukraine that gain independence or join Russia? It would give Russia a boost in population that speaks the language, is part of the culture, is educated, hardwoking, and gives Russia a population and economic boost. And Ukraine keeps....the oligarchs, neoNazis, and cheap exploited labor~

I don’t believe Obama and EUSSR would let these people be independent, let alone join Russia.


13 posted on 05/09/2014 5:20:46 AM PDT by wetphoenix
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To: Rashputin
"Ukrainian Crisis is about Taxes"

Sounds like the American Revolution.

14 posted on 05/09/2014 5:21:19 AM PDT by mikey_hates_everything
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To: wetphoenix
I don't believe Obama and EUSSR would let these people be independent, let alone join Russia

At some point, the US and the EU won't be able to keep their globalist-banker thing (that brings to mind Darth Vader and the evil empire) together. Demands for autonomy are getting louder. There is international disgust that govs can blow up civilizations but until everyday people finally said ENOUGH were ignoring the plight of 300 teenage girls kidnapped to be sold into slavery. Will the EU-US be able to stop independence movements eveywhere?

Even if they succeed at that, what about eastern Ukraine? They can't hold industries and ethnic Russians slaves. What I'm saying is that part of the population and industry could move to underpopulated Russia. Sochi's just sitting there, a very fine place for a major Russian city.

15 posted on 05/09/2014 6:03:52 AM PDT by grania
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To: Rashputin

So what. Wait until the Soviets get there and redistribute everything by force.


16 posted on 05/09/2014 6:05:54 AM PDT by Thunder90 (All posts soley represent my own opinion.)
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To: Thunder90

It is a question who are the Soviets there. Have you read this article?


17 posted on 05/09/2014 6:10:45 AM PDT by wetphoenix
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To: grania

~At some point, the US and the EU won’t be able to keep their globalist-banker thing (that brings to mind Darth Vader and the evil empire) together. Demands for autonomy are getting louder. There is international disgust that govs can blow up civilizations but until everyday people finally said ENOUGH were ignoring the plight of 300 teenage girls kidnapped to be sold into slavery. Will the EU-US be able to stop independence movements eveywhere?~

Demands for autonomy are getting sunk in blood right now and not a peep from the media, as far as ‘good’ guys are doing the killing.

As for moving to Russia, have you ever been an immigrant? It is a really tough choice, not for everyone.

The majority will stay in place to suffer they demise.


18 posted on 05/09/2014 6:16:33 AM PDT by wetphoenix
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To: wetphoenix
What I'm saying is it won't be tough for the ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine who would choose such a move. By all accounts, they're already Russian. The protests started when Kiev puts stops to using Russian as the language and airing Russian TV. Many were born Russian. The WW2 vets fought for Russia against Nazis.

It would be ironic if the EU ended up controlling an even worse economy with even less manufacturing and skilled workers.

19 posted on 05/09/2014 6:23:34 AM PDT by grania
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To: wetphoenix

“At some point, the US and the EU won’t be able to keep their globalist-banker thing (that brings to mind Darth Vader and the evil empire) together.”

Why is it that every former Warsaw Pact country...has flailed itself into the West and the EU to take part in Western capitalism? They are all fleeing the real evil, Russia, for the West.

Equivocating the Western capitalist system and the US to the real evil that comes from Russian autocratic ruling is a joke.

You guys have really chugged the Putin Kool Aid.

Jailed journalists, murdered journalists and dissidents to the leap toward authoritarianism, real state media controlling the information, annexing sovereign nations’ land, allying with rogues like NKorea and Iran.


20 posted on 05/09/2014 6:24:43 AM PDT by rbmillerjr (Russians to the Left of me, Useful Idiots to the Right...)
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To: Rashputin

1) Donbas is in an uproar, not Eastern Ukraine. Kharkiv at the moment seems to be contained, Zaporizhia quiet, Dnipropetrovsk as Ukrainian as Kiev and Lviv. Donbas, the most depressed part of the country survives on subsidies. One of the reason it’s in the uproar (besides the Russian commandos) is they’re feeling left out, because their previous contribution to the country, Yanukovich, almost bankrupted the country.

2) No one in “Donetsk Peoples Republic” talks about it being a tax revolt. They don’t have an economic plan, nobody is talking about taxes, revenues, or alternative economic policies. Their “plan” (loosely described as one) is to ask papa Putin to pick up the bill.

3) If a government subsidizes the costs of gas and electricity, then moves to reduce that subsidy, doesn’t that help to remove the distortion? Also, tax increase may be what the IMF is recommending, but implementing one in Ukraine is hopeless - the country already has the highest number of taxes in Europe, and few are paying them. What the country needs is tax reform, simplify the code to make operating a business easier, because the number of taxes is simply stifling (if I recall, the number of taxes was something like 70, could be mistaken, anyway it’s a large number)

The new government has a whole lot to do. Time will only tell if they will succeed.


21 posted on 05/09/2014 11:11:01 AM PDT by Ivan Mazepa
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To: Rashputin

He did, the guy killed a hundred people in February


22 posted on 05/09/2014 11:16:38 AM PDT by Ivan Mazepa
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To: Rashputin

“Apparently everyone doesn’t buy the propaganda about it being all the fault of Russia that Eastern Ukraine is in an uproar ever since the mob took over in Kiev.”

I certainly don’t. Russia has a lot of BETTER things to do with their money and manpower than to try to occupy part of Ukraine. If they are there, it is for a DAMN GOOD REASON.


23 posted on 05/09/2014 5:08:39 PM PDT by BobL
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To: rbmillerjr

Let’s see.
People in the East are making stuff ranging from cookies and chocolattes to motor vehicles and spacecraft components getting invovled in free enterprise and effectively selling their products on foreign markets.
People in the West aren’t interested in such activity. Their major source or income, short of smuggling cigarettes and diesel fuel to Poland, are grants to research Russian, German and Polish atrocities towards Ukrainian people to have someone ‘held responsible’.
The fact that their torturers have all died long time ago and there is no Stalin in Kremlin anymore doesn’t bother it. Their idea is to hold ‘moskals’ responsible for generations to come and they aren’t planning any productive activity as a career choice.
It is not surprising after all that the Eastern Ukrainian contribures average $13000 to national GDP and the rest of the country is below $5000.
Yet, for Western Ukrainians Easterner’s are ‘moskal filth’ and ‘unwashed masses’ because they are mostly blue collars dominated by local industrialists. The problem for the Easterners that they are interested in earning from hard work and free enterprise and largely despise public sector. For Westerners it is quite opposite because they have known tricks to benefit from public office and that is why they are dominating the government, they have their ethnic pimps preaching for ‘Russian guilt etc’ and numerous intellectuals advocating ‘European choice’ who has no idea about original ideals behing European culture.
As a result their idea of ‘backward East’ projects into reality.
‘Rich moscals’ are getting progressively taxed 30% and ‘Humble patriots’ 1-5%.
Needless to say that all the Eastern taxes are grabbed by ‘patriots’ in central government (no federalism) and ‘fair share’ goes to a more deserving folks. As a result eastern cities are crumpling with car-sized potholes in the streets and in the west they have new stadiums getting built and subsidized housing.
And I’m not saying here about unofficial ways of central government and their agencies to benefit from said businesses which is widespread.
Yet, they have a nerve to call Eastern businessmen and their employees communists and themselves con artist cronies in high offices, lawyers, neonazi thugs, liberal ‘intellectuals’ and the rest of useful idiot dupes a ‘freedom fighters’? The reason you are believing them is that they also have time, resources and expertise to influence media, to dupe ‘intellectuals’ and public officials in Europe and America. And the other side only has RT for this matter.

Bottom line is both parts are used by EU and Russia and both has their propaganda lines. Both operates some big and small lies but it doesn’t mean there are only wrongs are covered with these lies. There are truths behind it as well.

You are constantly accusing others in Russian propaganda but at the same time pushing the opposite Ukrainian line and ignoring any facts indicating any wrongs with it. Is it needed as far as Ukrainian propaganda is already overrepresented in media?

The truth is in the middle and it is not relativism to say it in this case.


24 posted on 05/09/2014 7:57:44 PM PDT by wetphoenix
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To: wetphoenix; SierraWasp

“I guess non-working and low-wage Ukraians are backing their new government dreaming about German EBT-card and urban ‘intellectual’ useful idiots are all about hope and change dope.”

Sounds like what is happening here in America and in particular, states like California, where the producing counties are taxed more and more to keep the Rat Voters in LA/Gay Frisco/Oakland/Sacramento happy.

In California, the discussions of dividing the state up into basically red and blue counties is starting to heat up again.


25 posted on 05/10/2014 7:45:12 AM PDT by Grampa Dave ( Herr Obama cannot divert resources from his war on Americans!)
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To: wetphoenix

“Let’s see.
People in the East are making stuff ranging from cookies and chocolattes to motor vehicles and spacecraft components getting invovled in free enterprise and effectively selling their products on foreign markets.
People in the West aren’t interested in such activity. Their major source or income, short of smuggling cigarettes and diesel fuel to Poland, are grants to research Russian, German and Polish atrocities towards Ukrainian people to have someone ‘held responsible’.
The fact that their torturers have all died long time ago and there is no Stalin in Kremlin anymore doesn’t bother it. Their idea is to hold ‘moskals’ responsible for generations to come and they aren’t planning any productive activity as a career choice.
It is not surprising after all that the Eastern Ukrainian contribures average $13000 to national GDP and the rest of the country is below $5000.”

Sounds just like our country with supposed ancestors of slavery wanting more and more from those of us where no slavery owning has been documented for over 150 years.


26 posted on 05/10/2014 7:48:58 AM PDT by Grampa Dave ( Herr Obama cannot divert resources from his war on Americans!)
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To: Grampa Dave

~In California, the discussions of dividing the state up into basically red and blue counties is starting to heat up again.~

Look at Ukraine as an example if you think it would be easy.
When former government confronted an ‘Occupy Kiev’ mob and a dozen of armed firebombing cop-killing thugs were shot by yet to be identified snipers, Obama was throwing tantrums and it was an impeachable offence for a Ukrainian president.
Now we have ‘Occupy’ activists in power as unelected acting government and it is ok to use tanks and airpower to strafe productive areas of the country, who aren’t happy about being ‘Occupied’.
Women, children and elderly declared ‘Russian special forces’, killed by the hundreds and no tantrums from Obama this time, and media is silent as well.
Loudmouth leftist freeloaders won’t ever let their milking cow go. You are a catch for them and your riches is a fair share.
And it is ok to grab power by ‘Occupy’ when they do it, but it is highly illegal if ‘Occupied’ ones wants election to get rid of occupiers, just ask Obama and alphabet news.


27 posted on 05/10/2014 8:26:10 AM PDT by wetphoenix
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To: wetphoenix; kronos77

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3154563/posts

House grilled Nuland over US’ Cooperation with Neo-Nazis in Ukraine
NSNBC ^

Posted by kronos77

nsnbc : A two-hour hearing of US Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland at the House Foreign Affairs Committee over the Obama administration’s and the US’ role in the developments in Ukraine nailed down Nuland over the United States overt cooperation with and use of neo-Nazis. Nuland tried to dodge questions, explained US plans for Ukraine and told the Committee outright lies about Kiev having “upheld the obligations of the Geneva agreement”. Nuland omitted that Kiev has mobilized Ukraine’s military forces and the presence of large contingents of Ukrainian troops near the Russian border.

Hard times covering-up cooperation with neo-Nazis. It becomes increasingly difficult for the Obama administration and the corporate US press to cover-up the fact that the main driving force behind the coup in Ukraine are neo-Nazis and ultra-nationalists, supported by the US.

While the Obama administration is pushing for Ukrainian elections on May 25, it transpires that about half of the 30.000 troops Kiev deployed to southeastern Ukraine are members of the National Guard, created in March, and “special regional military units” created this month, consisting predominantly of members of the neo-Nazi Pravy Sector and UNA-UNSO, militant members of the ultra-nationalist and overtly anti-Semitic Svoboda party and other radicals dressed in uniform to give the impression of “legality”.


28 posted on 05/10/2014 4:51:52 PM PDT by Grampa Dave ( Herr Obama cannot divert resources from his war on Americans!)
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To: Grampa Dave

Neither Svobda, nor Right Sector, have anti-Semitic leanings, nor are they a neo-Nazi group.

And, Obama has been negligent in the situation in Ukraine, going so far as to lead me to believe that Obama wants Russia to win this thing and take Ukraine.


29 posted on 05/10/2014 5:20:01 PM PDT by Thunder90 (All posts soley represent my own opinion.)
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To: Thunder90

You have to research them better.
An idea that every Occupy Kiev protester is a Nazi is a central lie of Russian media propaganda, but it is absolutely true about respective organizations.


30 posted on 05/10/2014 6:18:35 PM PDT by wetphoenix
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To: Grampa Dave

Thanks, Grampa Dave!


31 posted on 05/10/2014 6:47:49 PM PDT by wetphoenix
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To: All

Putin celebrates Victory Day in Crimea, honoring defeat of Nazi Germans, by annexing territory and being like Nazi Germans....

The sweet irony of it.


32 posted on 05/11/2014 2:10:02 AM PDT by rbmillerjr (Russians to the Left of me, Useful Idiots to the Right...)
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To: Rashputin

Shale gas reserves and major fields of Ukraine
14.06.2013

According to the Energy Information Administration’s estimates published in June, 2013 technically recoverable Ukrainian shale gas reserves constitute 3.6 trillion cubic meters (1,75% of world shale gas reserves). Earlier in 2011 Energy Information Administration has estimated technically recoverable shale gas reserves of Ukraine as 1.2 trillion cubic meters (0.6% of estimated world reserves), and total reserves as approximately 5.6 trillion cubic meters. According to the report of Dixi Group, estimates of shale gas reserves in Ukraine vary and range from 5 to 8 trillion cubic meters, 1-1.5 trillion cubic meters of which are technically extractive.

There are two major deposits of shale rocks in Ukraine, from which an extraction of natural gas is possible, namely Lvov-Lublin basin on the west (extractive shale gas reserves are estimated at the level of 1,47 trillion cubic meters) and the Dnieper-Donets basin on the east (extractive shale gas reserves are estimated at the level of 2.15 trillion cubic meters).

(...)

http://shalegas.in.ua/en/shale-gas-resources-in-ukraine/


33 posted on 05/12/2014 6:11:21 AM PDT by Fitzy_888 ("ownership society")
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