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Russia’s brutality with Ukraine is nothing new
The Washington Post ^ | March 17, 2014 | George F. Will

Posted on 05/10/2014 7:38:40 AM PDT by WhiskeyX

While Vladimir Putin, Stalin’s spawn, ponders what to do with what remains of Ukraine, remember: Nine years before the January 1942 Wannsee Conference, at which the Nazis embarked on industrialized genocide, Stalin deliberately inflicted genocidal starvation on Ukraine.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Russia
KEYWORDS: holodomor; russia; ukraine
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Apologists for Putin and his Russian regime have asked what is so wrong about the alleged Russian Government proposal to ration the food supply in occupied Crimea. Will's editorial addresses the very problem with subjecting the Ukrainians to the tender mercies of the Russians and Russian control of Ukrainian food supplies in the not so distant past.
1 posted on 05/10/2014 7:38:40 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: WhiskeyX

No reporting in the MSM on this historical fact.


2 posted on 05/10/2014 7:41:44 AM PDT by DIRTYSECRET (urope. Why do they put up with this.)
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To: WhiskeyX

There is a coordinated PR campaign by Putin to bully Ukraine politically. Putin’s military campaign in Ukraine has failed. So he is now terrorizing them and trying to blame the violence on Ukraine govt.


3 posted on 05/10/2014 7:43:35 AM PDT by lodi90
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To: WhiskeyX

But...but...they voted to be Russian!

Guess starvation and depopulation wasn’t mentioned on the ballot.


4 posted on 05/10/2014 7:43:59 AM PDT by Regulator
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To: Regulator
“But...but...they voted to be Russian!”

Actually, they did not vote to be Russian, even according to a Russian Human Rights group who traveled to the Crimea and conducted a survey of the voters and non-voters. Even the ethnic Russians who voted were little more than a majority in the vote. Given the large number of ethnic Russians who did not vote, the actual number of ethnic Russians who voted in favor of Russian annexation represented far less than the majority of eligible ethnic Russian voters.

5 posted on 05/10/2014 7:51:39 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: Regulator

No, Russia’s relationship with Ukraine is nothing like that of the US and Canada. The former is predatory and violent, the latter cooperative and peaceful, the very model of state-to-state relationships. You hear that cited often in the lamestream media.


6 posted on 05/10/2014 7:58:52 AM PDT by huckfillary
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To: WhiskeyX

Yeah. I know.

It was sarcasm.


7 posted on 05/10/2014 7:59:19 AM PDT by Regulator
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To: WhiskeyX

oh, but Putin said it was 95% in favor! Or some such...the devil in disguise, of a human.


8 posted on 05/10/2014 8:01:02 AM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo in laughter")
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To: WhiskeyX
Everyone I've discussed Ukraine with, maybe a dozen folks, know about the Stalin's starvation of Ukraine in the 30's.

That's not to say we shouldn't keep talking about it...but I'm not sure it applies to the events of today.

There's rationing in Crimea because Russia has some real logistical problems without a land bridge.

That is the sole cause.

Putin's obvious strategy is to win the hearts and minds...to the extent possible...of new and prospective territory. A deliberate program of starvation would be counter to those goals.

And to compare Putin to Stalin is ludicrous. Putin is much smarter and far more sophisticated than Stalin.

And, depending on his end objectives, potentially more dangerous.

Because it's not like anyone in the West is going to oppose him.

9 posted on 05/10/2014 8:03:25 AM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: Mariner

The shortages of food and water are being used by Russia to justify the further takeover of Southern and Eastern Ukraine. In addition to the ethnic claims, that drive the increasing violence the shortages, while real, will increase the Ukrainians are nazis meme.


10 posted on 05/10/2014 8:18:49 AM PDT by JimSEA
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To: Mariner

“There’s rationing in Crimea because Russia has some real logistical problems without a land bridge.”

Rationing was proposed and not yet implemented. Virtually every Ukrainian family lost family members in the Russian starvation of the Ukrainians known as the Holomodor. Try telling the Ukrainians and Tatars the Russian rationing of food supplies in the Holomodor doesn’t apply to the rationing of food supplies in today’s Crimea.


11 posted on 05/10/2014 8:19:30 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: WhiskeyX

It appears some armchair analysts here don’t realize that these current events are part of a living tapestry over there.

Most everybody in Russia’s neighboring states has someone in their family who was killed, exiled or otherwise abused by Kremlin stooges. So when you talk about food rationing by Russia it is a VERY serious matter to them because they’ve seen this movie before. And it doesn’t have a good ending.


12 posted on 05/10/2014 8:30:56 AM PDT by lodi90
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To: WhiskeyX

This was a continuation of what had been happening under the Czar when the Jewish people of Ukraine was subject to pogroms. I just finished a terrific historical novel entitled, “The Little Russian” which is set in Ukraine at the beginning of 20th Century. The writer, Susan Sherman, did an unbelievable level of research and presents the book in wonderful prose.


13 posted on 05/10/2014 8:36:53 AM PDT by Portcall24 (aer)
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To: lodi90
Most everybody in Russia’s neighboring states has someone in their family who was killed, exiled or otherwise abused by Kremlin stooges. So when you talk about food rationing by Russia it is a VERY serious matter to them because they’ve seen this movie before. And it doesn’t have a good ending.

No it doesn't: Harvest of Despair (hour long movie).

14 posted on 05/10/2014 8:44:11 AM PDT by Stepan12
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To: lodi90

Yes, Ivan the Terrible earned his reputation.


15 posted on 05/10/2014 8:59:50 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: JimSEA; All

“will increase the Ukrainians are nazis meme.”

It isn’t hard to push that meme, when you have hard-right Ukrainian idiots running things, like this fool from the “Fatherland Party”, who is the Governor of Kherson.

Kherson governor calls Hitler ‘liberator’ addressing veterans on Victory Day
http://rt.com/news/158032-kherson-governor-hitler-liberator/

“Governor of Kherson region Yuri Odarchenko was booed by thousands including WWII veterans when he told the previously cheering crowd that the Soviet Union tried to enslave Ukraine, while Hitler on the other hand tried to bring freedom to their land.

“Those [Soviet] aggressors justified their capture not only by their desire to seize others’ territory and enslave the people, but they also put forward slogans about liberating nations and people that inhabit the lands which Hitler hoped to capture,” Odarchenko told the crowd.”

Video of the event:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A05s6GrztbQ#t=136

Note what happens about two minutes in, when the mother and small child knock the mic out of his hands.


16 posted on 05/10/2014 9:00:01 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: Mariner

Not to mention Ukraine is blocading and cut off water supply.
Nice way to win hearts and minds, on par with tanks and choppers in E Ukraine.


17 posted on 05/10/2014 9:02:16 AM PDT by wetphoenix
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To: Mariner

“There’s rationing in Crimea because Russia has some real logistical problems without a land bridge.”

That is where the report last weekend about moving heavy pontoon bridging equipment from all over Russia comes in to play. Everything is bottle-necking at the crossing.

They plan to open a pontoon bridge across the Kerch Straights for light vehicles, while reserving the ferry space for heavy trucks, buses, and pedestrians.

There was also an article about the Ferry company trying to lease another ferry from Greece a few days ago.


18 posted on 05/10/2014 9:06:09 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: Mariner
That's not to say we shouldn't keep talking about it...but I'm not sure it applies to the events of today.

I think the point of the argument is that Putin himself was educated by and dedicated to, the same regime that perpetrated the unthinkable barbarities and genocide on Ukraine. Therefore his mind and sensibilities we cannot expect to be what we consider sane and normal.... Putin was raised as, and still is, a barbarian.

It would be as if the Prime Minister of modern Germany was raised a Nazi, and had been a Gestapo officer, and had stated that the fall of the 3rd Reich was the worst catastrophe in the 20th Century.... (this never happened and is unthinkable in post-war Germany). Still, if we imagine that, there's no doubt we would be thinking that such a leader would still be a dangerous heartless Nazi in his heart.

Similarly, Putin--ex-high-ranking KGB officer--is still a Russian Nationalist (if not necessarily a Communist), raised with barbarous and brutal totalitarian assumptions on the role of government--who would no-doubt defend Stalin's genocide in Ukraine. In comparison, he's being mild there....

Putin-as-unreformed-barbarian is the real problem.

19 posted on 05/10/2014 9:13:03 AM PDT by AnalogReigns (Real life is ANALOG!)
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To: AnalogReigns
U.S. policymakers, having allowed their wishes to father their thoughts, find Putin incomprehensible. He is a barbarian but not a monster, and hence no Stalin. But he has been coarsened, in ways difficult for civilized people to understand, by certain continuities, institutional and emotional, with an almost unimaginably vicious past. And as Ukraine, a bubbling stew of tensions and hatreds, struggles with its identity and aspirations, Americans should warily remember William Faulkner’s aphorism: “The past is never dead. It’s not even past.”

20 posted on 05/10/2014 9:31:14 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: lodi90; WhiskeyX

” Putin’s military campaign in Ukraine has failed. So he is now terrorizing them and trying to blame the violence on Ukraine govt.”

Ukrainian soldiers are surrendering their weapons en masse, they aren’t going to fight. Watch this video, like it or not, the Russians have already won.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtube_gdata_player&v=VNig07RtWxA

.


21 posted on 05/10/2014 9:40:28 AM PDT by FBD
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To: FBD

So you actually posting Putin propaganda here ?
Putin thanks u and all of his useful idiots in the west!


22 posted on 05/10/2014 9:48:07 AM PDT by ncalburt ( Amnesty-media out in full force)
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To: FBD

“Ukrainian soldiers are surrendering their weapons en masse, they aren’t going to fight. Watch this video, like it or not, the Russians have already won.”

You sure are desperate to misrepresent the events. That is already an old Ostrovsky video report, and it certainly fails to represent “surrendering their weapons en masse.” Everyone who has followed the news at all already knows Yanukovych, his Region of Partys, the Communists, and the small number of extremists are infiltrated throughout the police and military of the Ukraine. All it takes is a disloyal commander here and there to create chaos and surrender a unit of troops to the separatists and their Russian military commanders. So, you can drop the poor attempt at using false propaganda to misrepresdent the news report, because we’re not the least bit impressed with the obvious falsity.


23 posted on 05/10/2014 9:53:02 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: ncalburt; WhiskeyX; tcrlaf

Propaganda? ??
That video I posted was put together by a Vice news reporter (Simon Ostovsky) who was ARRESTED AND BEATEN BY PRO-RUSSIAN forces in Sloviansk. He was held for a couple days, and the Russians threatened to kill him. Do you two really want to face the truth, or do you just want to be the opposite equivalent of tcrlaf and RT NEWS who are basically propagandists for the Kremlin?

-Watch this video below of Simon Ostovsky’s detainment by the Russians, , then try to tell me I’m selling Russian propaganda. (Shaking my head in disgust)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tQGRJN4Radk


24 posted on 05/10/2014 10:08:26 AM PDT by FBD
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To: ncalburt; All

We get it.

Anything not filtered through EuromaidenPR is “Putinista propaganda!”

And still, none of the pro-coup people can tell me WHO is EuroMaidanPR? I wonder why....


25 posted on 05/10/2014 10:13:48 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: WhiskeyX

FACT: The Ukrainian army is, at best, “Unreliable”.

FACT: Kiev is bolstering Ukrainian Army Units with Right-Sector National Guard acting as NKVD-type political units to “Insure loyalty”

FACT: These very same Right-Sector National Guard units are being used not to restore order, but to PUT DOWN DISSENT, leading to massacres like we saw yesterday.


26 posted on 05/10/2014 10:18:19 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: tcrlaf

Actually, I believe that you squeal like a stuck pig when someone points out to you that RT is Russian propaganda. Don’t know about the rest.


27 posted on 05/10/2014 10:20:33 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: FBD

We’ve been posting Ostrovsky’s videos for weeks now, so these are nothing new to us. The propaganda is not Ostrovsky’s news report. The propaganda is your statements misrepresenting the content of Ostrovsky’s videos. That was made very clear in my previous remarks. If the Ukrainian government wasn’t susceptible to some defections by Communists and ethnic Russians, Yanukovych would never have been able to be in a position to abuse his powers. Your misrepresenting a small number of defectors as representative of the far greater majority of the nation is the false propaganda.


28 posted on 05/10/2014 10:23:30 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: tcrlaf
"They plan to open a pontoon bridge across the Kerch Straights for light vehicles, while reserving the ferry space for heavy trucks, buses, and pedestrians."

Yes and they are actively surveying for a suspension bridge over the Kerch Straits.

Ice in the winter has always been the problem but not insurmountable.

29 posted on 05/10/2014 10:29:51 AM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: AnalogReigns
"Putin-as-unreformed-barbarian is the real problem. "

With decent technology, nukes and the will to exert power.

Hell, their propaganda teams are superior to anything in the West.

30 posted on 05/10/2014 10:31:57 AM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: WhiskeyX

I’ve watched several videos of Ukrainian soldiers surrendering their firing pins to the Russians. You can call that whatever you want, but they’re not fighting for Ukraine. The fact that you’re calling that statement propaganda, is delusional, in light of the current events on the ground in at least half of Ukraine.

I supported an independent Ukraine since they started protesting in Maiden. But if their own soldiers aren’t going to fight for Ukraine, then there’s no reason for any of us to fight their battles. I wish them the best, but we need to stay out of it.


31 posted on 05/10/2014 10:40:35 AM PDT by FBD
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To: FBD

“I’ve watched several videos of Ukrainian soldiers surrendering their firing pins to the Russians. You can call that whatever you want, but they’re not fighting for Ukraine. The fact that you’re calling that statement propaganda, is delusional, in light of the current events on the ground in at least half of Ukraine.”

The videos show us about two units of the Ukrainian Ground Forces at Sloviyansk disarming after their commanding officers ordered the troops to do so. It appears the troops are being told the disarming was to prevent an incident in which the pro-Russian insurgents could be killed or injured in a confrontation. At least a few of the Ukrainian soldiers appeared to be rather unhappy at being ordered by their commanders to remove the firing pins from their small arms. So, the video shows us about two officers or perhaps a few more ordering the Ukrainian soldiers to disarm whether or not some of the soldiers agreed with such an order. Now you have taken this handful of soldiers, willing and unwilling, as an excuse to claim the Ukrainian ground forces are overwhelmingly prepared to surrender to the Russians and their Ukrainian separatist insurgents. You then try to say I am delusional for observing your remarks misrepresent the videos and the facts. Unfortunately for your argument, the mathematics of two or a few officers and fewer than about fifty to a hundred men does not reach anywhere remotely close to being a significant majority, plurality, or minority of the Ukrainian soldiers defecting to the separatists. The Ukrainian Ground forces before their recent reinforcements numbered about 144,000 soldiers. The ethnic Russian portion of the Ukrainian population is about 17.2%. If the entire ethnic Russian percentage of the Ukrainian Ground Forces defected to the separatists, they would number somewhat less than 25,000 soldiers. If half of those same soldiers defected, they would number around 12,500 soldiers. If just one hundredth of those soldiers defected to the separatists, they would number about 250 soldiers. Somehow I cannot see 250 soldiers defecting in those videos, willingly or unwillingly. So, what we have here is you making propagandistic remarks falsely claiming the actions of less than 1% of the ethnic Russian part of the Ukrainian Ground forces and less than one-tenth of one percent of the Ukrainian Ground Forces is in some magical way representative of the overwhelming majority of the Ukrainian Ground Forces. That is one humdinger of a wild delusion you’ve got there.


32 posted on 05/10/2014 11:10:00 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: WhiskeyX

You can keep on with the propagandist label if that’s your shtick. We’re just having an internet discussion. Nothing you or I say or think here, effects anything on the ground in Ukraine, and there’s not a damn thing you or I can do about this civil war, other than comment on what we see on the Internet. And from what I can see, Ukraine’s army is a bunch of amateurs going up against a pretty well organized Russian group, and they haven’t fired a single round at each other yet. Pretty tough to fire a rifle that’s had it’s firing pin removed, however.


33 posted on 05/10/2014 11:38:23 AM PDT by FBD
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To: 1rudeboy
“The past is never dead. It’s not even past.”

True, and why progressivism is total waste of blood sweat and tears.

34 posted on 05/10/2014 11:57:31 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: FBD

TimeBomb2000 has a very active ongoing thread about Ukraine with many photos and videos, a good resource.

http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showthread.php?445470-Russia-Authorizes-Military-to-Enter-Ukraine-and-Crimea-to-Stabilize-Region-RussianSpring/page221


35 posted on 05/10/2014 2:43:47 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: FBD

Hysterical agitprop post. I’m not even going to watch your link

All quiet in Odesa. Putin’s plan is in shreds. Green Men withdrawn and dime bag terrorists shooting, looting and burning. That’s not going to win the locals over to Pro-Putin.

45 million Ukrainians. They ain’t going no where. Deal with it.


36 posted on 05/10/2014 2:47:23 PM PDT by lodi90
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To: FBD; WhiskeyX
Cabinet Ministers of Donetsk Republic:

some_text

37 posted on 05/10/2014 2:55:58 PM PDT by lodi90
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To: lodi90

I don’t know, something seems “off” about them. Maybe their eyes?


38 posted on 05/10/2014 3:15:53 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy; FDB; WhiskeyX
Heroes of Donetsk Republic (Terrorists, 2nd Class):

Another view, same dupes:

Is that the best Pro-Putin's got? Pot shots behind human shields. Really, really bad game plan. Russia will be in no position to dictate anything politically after this Mariupol fiasco.

39 posted on 05/10/2014 3:21:59 PM PDT by lodi90
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To: 1rudeboy

Maybe they could color coordinate their balaclavas? Red for fire department. Blue for police. Brown for Parks & Rec. ETC.

It would be a funny if it wasn’t such a tragedy. Like a Borat movie or something.


40 posted on 05/10/2014 3:27:18 PM PDT by lodi90
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To: lodi90
As another freeper commented, what the hell do I know, I'm just another dummy sitting behind a computer in the USA commenting on the news that I see happening 9,000 miles away. >

I hope the Ukrainian people do win this, and finally get their liberation from the Russian oligarchs. But nothing I've seen so far, (including watching soldiers surrendering their firing pins to pro-Russian troops) indicates that the majority of Ukrainians want to fight for independence. I'm guessing that Ukraine will be split up.

But if you think your comments on an Internet site, and exchanging insults with your fellow freepers about the conditions on the ground will change things for the better for Ukrainians, well, man your post and have at it, keyboard warrior.

41 posted on 05/11/2014 10:18:27 AM PDT by FBD
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To: little jeremiah

Thanks LJ, I appreciate the link. If I had my wish, I’d like to see Russia stay out of Ukraine. They’re good at pretending to be *anti-imperialist*, but are the most imperialist country of all. They’re not in Ukraine to stabilize it. They’re trying to section it off, IMO.


42 posted on 05/11/2014 11:06:07 AM PDT by FBD
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To: FBD; caww

Caww has the most complete news. Also the link above I posted. It is not a “Putin is the Devil/Ukraine Gov are Saints” scenario. Despite some loud posters say, people like me and caww are not “siding” with Putin. But the truth is the truth, and the current Ukraine gov is even worse than the one they through out. The Svoboda party and Pravi Sektor, its paramilitary, are neo Nazis and butchers. And they have big influence in the current gov, holding many positions. It’s terrible in Ukraine and the US involvement taking the side of Svoboda only makes it worse.


43 posted on 05/11/2014 11:40:37 AM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: lodi90

Do you have any idea who those men are?

Apparently not, if you think they are pro-Russians.


44 posted on 05/11/2014 11:42:02 AM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: little jeremiah; caww

Its RT, so I take it with a grain of salt, but when I see videos like this one, of ordinary Ukrainian people (including women) of Russian ancestry who are really opposed to Maiden rule, I realized this thing isn’t cut and dry at all. It’s a civil war, and getting uglier by the minute.

https://m.youtube.com/results?q=southeast%20Ukraine%20crisis%20diary&sm=3

...


45 posted on 05/13/2014 12:16:57 PM PDT by FBD
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To: FBD

It’s a civil war, and if the US and the EU had not funded the Pravi Sektor and Svoboda in the beginning, things might not have come to this pass.

Did you see the news today that Biden’s son is now head of some Eastern Ukrainian gas company? I think the biggest one in Ukraine.

Here it is:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3155271/posts

Hunter Biden [son of US VP Joe Biden] joins the team of Burisma Holdings [Ukraine gas producer]
Burisma website ^ | May 12, 2014 | media@burisma.com
Posted on 5/12/2014 8:45:51 PM by CMB_polarization


46 posted on 05/13/2014 2:34:56 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: FBD

Yes of course it’s RT...did you expect the US media to report????....it was the same during Egypt’s Revolution with Aljazzera reporting..as much as we didn’t trust Aljazera at least we were informed ‘of happenings’ sufficiently enough to ‘search further for verification’...so to now with RT. Therefore I do check with RT along with several others...It does take time for the major US and EU news to even report , when permitted to do so, as all must go through the editing process and bias.

Currently is being reported from those on the ground in Eastern Ukraine...Nato helicopters confirmed now in the war zones and active..... and heavy fire enough to call it a battlefield as people seek basements to escape the artillery shooting as their homes are being also hit from fraying motors etc. Kiev Gov. confirms as well there are battles there.

To say this is messy...it was as such from the beginning.


47 posted on 05/13/2014 4:23:06 PM PDT by caww
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To: FBD

Yes of course it’s RT...did you expect the US media to report????....it was the same during Egypt’s Revolution with Aljazzera reporting..as much as we didn’t trust Aljazera at least we were informed ‘of happenings’ sufficiently enough to ‘search further for verification’...so to now with RT. Therefore I do check with RT along with several others...It does take time for the major US and EU news to even report , when permitted to do so, as all must go through the editing process and bias.

Currently is being reported from those on the ground in Eastern Ukraine...Nato helicopters confirmed now in the war zones and active..... and heavy fire enough to call it a battlefield as people seek basements to escape the artillery shooting as their homes are being also hit from fraying motors etc. Kiev Gov. confirms as well there are battles there.

To say this is messy...it was as such from the beginning.


48 posted on 05/13/2014 4:23:07 PM PDT by caww
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To: huckfillary
......”cited often in the lamestream media”....

Our media is under specific orders from the administration what they can and cannot report on and how it's to be framed. Just as the Russian media and Germany particular are.

I believe for a complete picture you have to draw from all sources including those on the ground....also social media, where currently there's also a war as twitter and facebook ‘remove’ and “suspend” accounts which do not correspond to the Eu/NATO/US agenda regarding Ukraine.

However, while on the social media you get a grasp of the rhythm and can often see photos and videos before they take them down.

Meanwhile you have the Atlantic Council and EU Parliament people “think tanks” and various teams in the field attempting to continue with the EU expansion as they entice other nations to join such as Moldova, Georgia and others along the Baltic Sea. In midst of all these there are many "elections" soon for head officers in the EU Parliment, and across several nations as well...so the political arena is as much in chaos as those in Ukraine!

49 posted on 05/13/2014 4:37:37 PM PDT by caww
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To: lodi90

Those pictured in the photos have already been long identified as Maidin private sector and others opposing the citizens......this was already posted on another thread another thread....and then of course take a look at the fellow in the front with his firebottle ready to go....likly one of the nazi guys as they love fire.

I realize you’ve made it apparent you are totally anti-Russian but really, borrowing photos from other threads to twist to make your point is exactly what you have accused Russia doing...and here you are doing so.

As was state before.....Private Sector had been proven to have infiltrated the crowd that day and at that event..as well as those of the Kiev Nat’l Guard dressed in civilain clothes.


50 posted on 05/13/2014 4:44:34 PM PDT by caww
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