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Ukraine’s poor military can only hope it never has to fight Russia
McClatchy DC News ^ | May 9, 2014 | By Matthew Schofield

Posted on 05/10/2014 8:55:17 PM PDT by Mariner

KIEV, Ukraine — Understanding the depths of the crisis Ukraine faces today takes only a visit to historic St. Volodymyr’s Cathedral.

There, beneath distinctive blue and gold onion domes, as the cathedral’s patriarch prays for “calm and security for all Ukraine,” parishioners peel away to visit two donation boxes. Each box is labeled. One is “For the church” while the other is “To support our armed forces.” On a recent night, parishioners typically slid folded bills into each.

Boxes urging support for Ukraine’s armed forces can be found seemingly everywhere: in shops, along Kiev’s Independence Square, or Maidan, and in thousands of other spots around the country. In the past month, they’ve gathered about 116 million Ukrainian hryvnia, or $10 million.

In the scheme of a modern military, that amounts to pennies. But Adm. Ihor Kabanenko, Ukraine’s deputy minister of defense, used a news conference this week to express the gratitude of a traditionally woefully underfunded military.

(Excerpt) Read more at mcclatchydc.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: ukraine; ukrainecrisis; ukrainemilitary
What a mess.

This is what happens when you don't spend anything on defense.

You'd think their "friends" in the EU would offer some money and basic equipment.

But not even those countries in Eastern Europe have any spare change?

1 posted on 05/10/2014 8:55:17 PM PDT by Mariner
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To: Mariner

Russia will send them all the military they need, in short order.


2 posted on 05/10/2014 8:58:19 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

Russia will send them all the military they need, in short order.


Nope. 45 million Ukrainians. 5 cities of a million people. Putin wants no part of policing that. It’s all psywar right now to bully Ukraine politically.

Putin has pulled the fist team FSB/GRU and they are long gone from UKR. Now it’s a Pro-Putin rabble with pistols, Chechen terrorists, etc. Huge mess for the Ukrainians to clean up. No worries. They will do it.


3 posted on 05/10/2014 9:05:11 PM PDT by lodi90
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To: lodi90

Yep! I’m not sure if Putin blinked. But something happened.


4 posted on 05/10/2014 9:07:53 PM PDT by meatloaf (Impeach Obama. That's my New Year's resolution.)
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To: Mariner

Obama says such action will bring Russia ‘consequences’

And his word is better than action.


5 posted on 05/10/2014 9:10:01 PM PDT by sickoflibs (Obama : 'I never said that you can keep your doctor . Republicans lie about me ')
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To: Mariner

"You not say Ukraine weak."

6 posted on 05/10/2014 9:11:24 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: lodi90
"Nope. 45 million Ukrainians. 5 cities of a million people. Putin wants no part of policing that. It’s all psywar right now to bully Ukraine politically."

It's somewhere in the middle of those two.

Putin will not walk away from the East NOR Odessa.

He will by hook or crook bring the eastern 1/3 together with a coastal strip (which includes a land bridge into Crimea) that runs through Odessa into Transwhatever.

You may not see annexation or Russian tanks, but it won't matter.

He's very likely to take it. And take his time doing it.

7 posted on 05/10/2014 9:19:07 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: Mariner
“Weaponry and machinery are undeniably important, but there is no point in them without the due moral and psychological condition of the military as an important indicator of battle-readiness,” he wrote. “The moral and psychological condition is below poor. Why? Because servicemen don’t believe that the state, commanders, let alone the government, need them. The parliament which does not want to finance their needs doesn’t need them either. How much does the government plan to spend on housing for the military? Nothing. What else can be said?”

Nothing good will come from this


8 posted on 05/10/2014 9:24:26 PM PDT by darkwing104 (Forgive but don't forget)
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To: darkwing104
"Nothing good will come from this "

Ukraine is a resource rich country of 45million educated people. They have industry and technology.

And they can't even put a few credible combat brigades together.

But, don't look now because neither can Romania or Bulgaria. Two of the dumbest ideas NATO ever had.

9 posted on 05/10/2014 9:30:48 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: Mariner

Did I copy the article title of your thread correctly?

” - - - Obama’s poor military can only hope it never has to fight Russia - - - “

If I have hit the wrong keys, I apologize, as that would have been a bone-headed mistake!

Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/05/09/227043/ukraines-poor-military-can-only.html?sp=/99/100/&ihp=1#storylink=cpy


10 posted on 05/10/2014 9:31:57 PM PDT by Graewoulf (Democrats' Obamacare Socialist Health Insur. Tax violates U.S. Constitution AND Anti-Trust Law.)
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To: lodi90
Nope. 45 million Ukrainians. 5 cities of a million people. Putin wants no part of policing that.

And? That's really not much.

Iraq defeated Kuwait, which had a population of over two million, with an army of 120,000 in a single day.
265,000 coalition forces steamrolled through Iraq (population: 25,000,000) in 2003.

It really doesn't take many soldiers to hold down a large population of civilians, many of which are too young, elderly, disabled, unwilling, or, in the case of east Ukraine, about one-third on the side of Russia.

11 posted on 05/10/2014 9:32:44 PM PDT by PaulCruz2016
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To: meatloaf

If it is true that Putin blinked, Obama and his MSM lackeys will make sure he gets the credit for it.


12 posted on 05/10/2014 9:52:40 PM PDT by 353FMG
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To: PaulCruz2016

Ukraine is not Kuwait. It’s Texas size. With 10 cities with more than 500k people. If the Ukrainian people fight, the army will. If the people and Army fight, Putin has a big problem. That’s why he won’t be invading. Crimea integration is estimated at $30 billion cost to Russia. Invasion and occupation of Ukraine would be hundreds of billions obviously. There is no way the a kleptocratic petrostate like Russia could afford that.


13 posted on 05/10/2014 10:07:21 PM PDT by lodi90
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To: Mariner

Odesa is off the table. The local citizens are very organized and will give Putin another butt kicking if his Green Men show up again. He would need an outright invasion to take Odesa and that won’t be happening.

Mariupol seems to be the big developing battleground. Total anarchy there right now as the corrupt local police have gone AWOL. Seems Putin intends to terrorize the city and use the chaos to bully Ukraine politically.


14 posted on 05/10/2014 10:16:31 PM PDT by lodi90
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To: Mariner
It's somewhere in the middle of those two. Putin will not walk away from the East NOR Odessa. He will by hook or crook bring the eastern 1/3 together with a coastal strip (which includes a land bridge into Crimea) that runs through Odessa into Transwhatever.

I agree with that assessment. I doubt Putin wants any part of policing the western half of Ukraine, which is anti-Russian and more naturally allied with Poland. But eastern Ukraine is a different matter. Aside from the large pro-Russian population in the east, Russia has strategic interests in its provision of a broad land bridge to Crimea and the Black Sea and in the key military industries centered around Donetsk. This in an area Putin must and will hold, one way or another.

15 posted on 05/10/2014 10:33:28 PM PDT by Always A Marine
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To: lodi90
If the Ukrainian people fight, the army will. If the people and Army fight, Putin has a big problem. That’s why he won’t be invading.

The makeup of the "Ukrainian people" depends upon where in Ukraine you go. In the east, a great many "Ukrainian people" will be fighting on the side of Russia against Kiev. Ukraine as presently constituted is a demographic and political basket case, and untenable. Russia will likely dominate the area east of the Dnieper River.

16 posted on 05/10/2014 10:39:39 PM PDT by Always A Marine
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To: Mariner

You are right about that one.


17 posted on 05/10/2014 10:58:26 PM PDT by Bogie
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To: Mariner

Nobody wants to challenge Russia. They are too dependent on them for energy and, except perhaps Britain, in no place to challenge them militarily.


18 posted on 05/10/2014 11:20:44 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
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To: Mariner

The best Ukraine can really do is small resistence movements throughout the country, trying to bog down Putin.


19 posted on 05/10/2014 11:21:44 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
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To: Always A Marine

“Ukraine as presently constituted is a demographic and political basket case, and untenable. Russia will likely dominate the area east of the Dnieper River.”

That is yet more false propaganda designed to dishearten would be defenders of the Ukrainian people. The ethnic Russians represent no more than about a quarter to a third of the mainland Ukrainian Oblasts. In other words, the ethnic Russians are a small minority of the Ukrainian citizens. Even among the ethnic Russian Ukrainians, support for Putin’s Russian takeover of their Ukrainian Oblasts is a minority of their opinions. This is why Russia has sent its covert military forces into the Ukraine with large sums of money to incite the small fraction of ethnic Russians to use armed force and terrorism against the unarmed majority of people supporting the right of the Ukraine to remain independent of Russian conquest.


20 posted on 05/10/2014 11:26:59 PM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: Mariner; All

Ukraine has a standing army of 88,000 men. A modern army of that size should be able to EASILY wipe aside the poorly armed and disorganized militias in the East.

That Kiev has only been able to field a couple of hundred men in any operation, and those being mostly expensive failures, should speak VOLUMES as to the military, and their reliability.

An Airborne Company surrendered their weapons and equipment to a mostly unarmed civilian mob in Slovyansk, as but one example.

The Right Sector National Guard, as the slaughter in Mauriupal has clearly shown, is poorly-trained, and even more poorly disciplined.


21 posted on 05/10/2014 11:46:31 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: Mariner

The Putin puppet and former Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych would never have been allowed by Putin to support the strengthening of the Ukraine’s military. During the Cold War, we used the phrase Finlandization to describe how the Soviet Union would keep its neighbors weak and politically neutral. That’s what happened to Ukraine during its brief time without direct Putin dominance and his Russian-backed warriors disrupting the Ukraine, as they are today. Putinista supporters of Putin buy into arguments about pan-Russian chauvinism and how picked on Russians are, but behind that cynical justification is Putin playing power politics for the benefit of his former KGB buddies and the oligarchs in Russia.


22 posted on 05/10/2014 11:47:04 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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To: Always A Marine

“Russia will likely dominate the area east of the Dnieper River”

Which has been my call from day one.
Putin is playing Obama like a violin.


23 posted on 05/10/2014 11:51:37 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: WhiskeyX
That is yet more false propaganda designed to dishearten would be defenders of the Ukrainian people.

To which "Ukrainian people" do you refer, and who are these would be defenders that are so disheartened? Ukrainians are on both sides as Ukraine is sinking into civil war, without Western outsiders supporting and advising the new Kiev government in the west, and Russian outsiders actively supporting and advising the pro-Russian separatists in the east. The fight will likely end with either an official or a de facto partition of Ukraine, with Russia controlling the east.

24 posted on 05/11/2014 12:17:20 AM PDT by Always A Marine
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To: Always A Marine
That's "with Western outsiders supporting and advising the new Kiev government..." It's late!
25 posted on 05/11/2014 12:18:59 AM PDT by Always A Marine
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To: Always A Marine
I doubt Putin wants any part of policing the western half of Ukraine, which is anti-Russian and more naturally allied with Poland. But eastern Ukraine is a different matter. Aside from the large pro-Russian population in the east, Russia has strategic interests in its provision of a broad land bridge to Crimea and the Black Sea and in the key military industries centered around Donetsk. This in an area Putin must and will hold, one way or another.
Correct. Putin wants the East... and he will get it.
26 posted on 05/11/2014 2:23:24 AM PDT by samtheman
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To: Mariner

Between underfunding and corruption Ukraines military is in poor condition. When they were with us in Iraq we handled all of their logistics. They ate better were healthier and in all around better condition than at their home bases


27 posted on 05/11/2014 3:33:17 AM PDT by Jimmy Valentine (DemocRATS - when they speak, they lie; when they are silent, they are stealing the American Dream)
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To: meatloaf

“Yep! I’m not sure if Putin blinked. But something happened.”

Indeed. Russia hasn’t even recognized the fake sham of a referendum.

With Russia in a bad recession and investment pouring out of Russia over the last month...maybe the economic sanctions (which are very minimal at this point) are beginning to have Puti’s financier’s moaning.

I’m not sure what is up...but something is up.


28 posted on 05/13/2014 1:56:30 AM PDT by rbmillerjr (Russians to the Left of me, Useful Idiots to the Right...)
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To: Jonty30

“Nobody wants to challenge Russia. They are too dependent on them for energy and, except perhaps Britain, in no place to challenge them militarily.”

You can’t support those statements. NATO would crush Russia on the battlefield. In detail. You overestimate Russia, they are a paper tiger bully who will only pick on weak and isolated nations. And you highly undervalue the West’s technology on the field.


29 posted on 05/13/2014 2:01:42 AM PDT by rbmillerjr (Russians to the Left of me, Useful Idiots to the Right...)
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To: rbmillerjr

Should, could, would, but they will not. Europe does not have the will to oppose Russia, otherwise Russia would not have invaded the Ukraine.


30 posted on 05/13/2014 7:12:25 AM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
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To: Jonty30

“Should, could, would, but they will not. Europe does not have the will to oppose Russia, otherwise Russia would not have invaded the Ukraine.”

LOL, you have it backwards.

Russia only annexes and invades Ukraine because NATO and the West did not bring it into membership.

You will notice Russia hands off Poland, Estonia, Latvia etc. Putin knows better.


31 posted on 05/13/2014 7:28:05 AM PDT by rbmillerjr (Russians to the Left of me, Useful Idiots to the Right...)
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