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Insurgents say Ukraine region opts for sovereignty
The Miami Herald ^ | 05-11-2014 | Peter Leonard

Posted on 05/11/2014 4:12:33 PM PDT by PaulCruz2016

DONETSK, Ukraine -- Ninety percent of voters in a key industrial region in eastern Ukraine came out in favor of sovereignty Sunday, pro-Russian insurgents said in announcing preliminary results of a twin referendum that is certain to deepen the turmoil in the country.

Roman Lyagin, election chief of the self-styled Donetsk People's Republic, said around 75 percent of the Donetsk region's 3 million or so eligible voters cast ballots, and the vast majority backed self-rule.

(Excerpt) Read more at miamiherald.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Russia
KEYWORDS: apologistsforgulag; conchita4potus; donetsk; freedom4ukraine; freedomiscouptothem; helloputinlovers; idiots4slavery; idiotsaginstfreedom; idiotsmockingfeedom; idiotstakingovefr; keywordabuse; kgbidiotshatefreedom; kremlinversion; longlivemaidan; patheticpropagandist; propagandistsonfr; putinsbuttboys; putinsfrpropaganda; putinsusefulidiots; russia; somelovetyranny; sudetenland; surrendermonkeys; ukraine; usefulidiotsspeak
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1 posted on 05/11/2014 4:12:33 PM PDT by PaulCruz2016
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To: PaulCruz2016

Anyone who believes this result is a fool.


2 posted on 05/11/2014 4:16:22 PM PDT by Bogey78O (We had a good run. Coulda been great still.)
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To: PaulCruz2016

Why not 99%? Isn’t that the soviet average?


3 posted on 05/11/2014 4:16:56 PM PDT by samtheman
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To: PaulCruz2016

Impossible! Dick Morris predicted the opposite.


4 posted on 05/11/2014 4:22:58 PM PDT by SeeSharp
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To: PaulCruz2016

Putin scores another victory by any means necessary. Meanwhile at the White House...

Moochelle: Barack, shall we eat at the Ritz or somewhere more expensive?

Barry: What do we care? It’s all taxpayer funded. tee hee


5 posted on 05/11/2014 4:24:02 PM PDT by Viennacon (p)
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To: SeeSharp

The only way Russia could have lost the vote is if we had sent Karl Rove over to manage the campaign. Why not do that next time.


6 posted on 05/11/2014 4:24:48 PM PDT by Viennacon (p)
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To: Bogey78O

Oh I’m sure that number had help. No question. But I cannot understand why people find it so hard to believe that a big chunk of those people WANT Russia. If I was there with the chaos of the Ukraine and the EU as an alternative, I probably would as well.

Fortunately that’s a choice I don’t have to make in America...yet.

The world press tells them that WE love Obama. It is ALL BS. All of it.


7 posted on 05/11/2014 4:27:57 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart (How's that 'lesser evil' workin' out for ya?)
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To: Norm Lenhart
Oh I’m sure that number had help. No question. But I cannot understand why people find it so hard to believe that a big chunk of those people WANT Russia.

I bet the Putinistas here probably think if such a referendum were held stateside, 90% of the population would vote to be annexed by Russia.

8 posted on 05/11/2014 4:30:03 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: PaulCruz2016

Come on, It is several days old news.


9 posted on 05/11/2014 4:30:43 PM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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To: Zhang Fei

Wouldn’t result in a lot of difference if it was actually. Pick your flavor of dictator.


10 posted on 05/11/2014 4:31:20 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart (How's that 'lesser evil' workin' out for ya?)
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To: PaulCruz2016

Putin just got his pretext to invade. The question is whether the Ukrainian military has its ducks in a row. Either way, the blood is about to start flowing.


11 posted on 05/11/2014 4:32:55 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Norm Lenhart
I know the EU is a weak bureaucratic system.

But we cannot and should not forget that Putin is a SOVIET!!!!!

He isn't a lesser Evil.

He is a greater one.

The EU is a wanna be Mini-USSR, but it will crumble under it's own weight just like the real thing did.

But Putin is NOT our friend. He wants the days back when Russia Truly Dominated a Quarter of the Planet.

12 posted on 05/11/2014 4:42:12 PM PDT by KC_Lion (Build the America you want to live in at your address, and keep looking up.- Sarah Palin)
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To: PaulCruz2016

Wow peddling more Putin Propaganda f!

You joined this website when?..Newbie Troll !

Paul Cruz ia nice cover fiorva Putin KGB troll


13 posted on 05/11/2014 4:48:42 PM PDT by ncalburt ( Amnesty-media out in full force)
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To: Norm Lenhart

CNN was crying about “double voting” by someone in one of the Donetsk voting locations.

Which I find a bit ironic, since they can’t seem to find it in Cincinatti, Cleveland, Gary, Detroit, Chicago, Baltimore, Philly, Memphis, LA, etc,etc,adn....


14 posted on 05/11/2014 4:51:05 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: ncalburt

the Mexicans will try this before the end of Obama’s term


15 posted on 05/11/2014 4:51:38 PM PDT by molson209 (Blank)
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To: ncalburt

Pipe down the adults are trying to have a conversation.


16 posted on 05/11/2014 4:52:47 PM PDT by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: KC_Lion

“that Putin is a SOVIET”

No, he isn’t. He a Russian nationalist.

Today’s Russia is VERY different from Yesterday’s Soviet Union.


17 posted on 05/11/2014 4:52:54 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: tcrlaf
“Today’s Russia is VERY different from Yesterday’s Soviet Union.”

Not so “VERY” but indeed, they are moving from pure Sovietism to a mix of that and Mussolini style fascism.

18 posted on 05/11/2014 4:55:55 PM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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To: tcrlaf
Today’s Russia is VERY different from Yesterday’s Soviet Union.

Can you expand on that--I am interested in your take on the differences.I am not as up on Russia as I used to be.

19 posted on 05/11/2014 4:57:16 PM PDT by exit82 ("The Taliban is on the inside of the building" E. Nordstrom 10-10-12)
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To: tcrlaf

“Today’s Russia is VERY different from Yesterday’s Soviet Union.”

No, it isn’t. Well, it’s poorer, and more alcoholic, and possibly even more corrupt. Oh, and the porn business is way more out in the open. But even granting all that, there ain’t a dimes worth of difference between Putin and Brezhnev.


20 posted on 05/11/2014 4:57:17 PM PDT by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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To: Lurker

Puti is far wealthier...


21 posted on 05/11/2014 5:01:21 PM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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To: Grzegorz 246

“Not so “VERY” but indeed, they are moving from pure Sovietism to a mix of that and Mussolini style fascism”

That is a road too far, I think. The USA has rushed headlong into fascism at a much faster pace than Russia is doing.

The Administration has almost total control of the American Mainstream media, with clear punishments for those that don’t play along.
The administration now picks and chooses which laws it will/will not enforce.
The administration now uses the force of Government to pick winners and losers in business.
The Democrat-connected Oligarchs line up at the treasury for their wheelbarrows full of taxpayer money, etc...

Now, if Russia starts using their IRS on political enemies...


22 posted on 05/11/2014 5:01:59 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: molson209

Most Mexicans would like to have the Southwest back. I know a lot of Mexican Americans, my great grandfather was a Mexican Indian. I know two who would support a Mexican takeover because they are basically racist. Everyone else would be horrified at any real possibility of a Mexican takeover. The know all too well why their ancestors came here, most during or just after a bloody revolution and later a one party socialist authoritarian corruptocracy.


23 posted on 05/11/2014 5:02:46 PM PDT by JimSEA
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To: tcrlaf

“The USA has rushed headlong into fascism at a much faster pace than Russia is doing.”

Yes, evil America... yawn...

“Now, if Russia starts using their IRS on political enemies...”

Dude, they just kill them over there.


24 posted on 05/11/2014 5:03:34 PM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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To: Bogey78O

“Anyone who believes this result is a fool.”

Do you REALLY think the people there, mostly Russians, want to be part of the Ukraine? If so, you’re in a VERY SMALL group, limited to the Administration and yourself - not even the media buys that line.


25 posted on 05/11/2014 5:05:46 PM PDT by BobL
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To: KC_Lion

Of course he’s not. I don’t mean to suggest he is.

Our current dictator also is Soviet and has killed more actual people than Putin...while bragging how good he’s getting at it... while giving more cash and weapons to terrorist muslims than Putin.

Ultimately we have a choice in this. Invade or sit down and shut up. Personally, I would be miffed if a bunch of Ukrainians stuck their noses into America’s internal conflicts, OR external conflicts. It’s their country to so with as they see fit. If they go Soviet, that’s their call and we will deal with it if we ever have to.

But while this collection of communists in DC runs the show, I do nor one drop of American blood or treasure involved with ANYTHING related to a nuclear armed country because they only EVER MAKE IT WORSE.

You know I like Fallout. I just don’t want to experience it for real anytime soon.


26 posted on 05/11/2014 5:07:00 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart (How's that 'lesser evil' workin' out for ya?)
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To: tcrlaf; Grzegorz 246; exit82; Lurker; cripplecreek
They are cut from the Same Totalitarian Cloth.

I am going to break godwin's law but it needs to be said, it's like the difference between National Socialism and International Socialism.

Similar Products but marketed differently and to different people.

But Putin's sure as Hell is not a disciple of Thomas Jefferson or John Locke.

27 posted on 05/11/2014 5:07:13 PM PDT by KC_Lion (Build the America you want to live in at your address, and keep looking up.- Sarah Palin)
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To: tcrlaf

You pathological liar !

Younpost a bold faced lie that .
The KGB was never shut down

Read all sbout the Hell that Putin has created .

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2624817/How-Putins-walking-Six-years-ago-EDWARD-LUCAS-branded-scaremonger-warning-danger-posed-West-today-threats-alarming-ever.html

If Outin such a nationalist then why is he setting up military
outposts in Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua !

All fellow Leftist dictatorship.


28 posted on 05/11/2014 5:08:34 PM PDT by ncalburt ( Amnesty-media out in full force)
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To: PaulCruz2016

What a bunch of murdering liars. Wow


29 posted on 05/11/2014 5:08:42 PM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo in laughter")
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To: Norm Lenhart; cripplecreek

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHWjlCaIrQo

30 posted on 05/11/2014 5:09:08 PM PDT by KC_Lion (Build the America you want to live in at your address, and keep looking up.- Sarah Palin)
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To: exit82

read all about the KGB tyrant Putin these trolls lie to yiur face about.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2624817/How-Putins-walking-Six-years-ago-EDWARD-LUCAS-branded-scaremonger-warning-danger-posed-West-today-threats-alarming-ever.html


31 posted on 05/11/2014 5:10:29 PM PDT by ncalburt ( Amnesty-media out in full force)
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To: tcrlaf

“Today’s Russia is VERY different from Yesterday’s Soviet Union.”

That is SO TRUE. Russians today are a happy people and PROUD of their country. They also don’t mind helping out Russians that are stuck in other, unfriendly, places.

It AMAZES me that people here are SO QUICK to believe Dan Rather and the Administration when they tell us that Russia is pure evil. Why? I thought most of us were inherently suspicious of these types telling us what to believe. Why believe them now?


32 posted on 05/11/2014 5:10:35 PM PDT by BobL
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To: PaulCruz2016

Whether true or not, the result matters insofar as it repudiates all the Western polls that purported to show eastern Ukrainians were in love with the Maidan regime. Clearly, in Donetsk they’re not. There is widespread disaffection and the fact people turned out to vote under circumstances nothing short of an outright civil war is stunning.

It may not be legal but it strengthens Russia’s hand and if the results are close like that also in Lugansk, it only reveals how unrepresentative the upcoming May 25 presidential elections are going to be. Of course Kiev and its Western backers will close their eyes and pretend it means nothing. How very convenient.


33 posted on 05/11/2014 5:10:44 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: exit82

“Can you expand on that—I am interested in your take on the differences.I am not as up on Russia as I used to be”

The average Russian under 35 or 40 has no real recollection of what life was like under the Soviets, other than some classroom propaganda in elementary school for the oldest of that group.

They are free to travel, in Russia and abroad. They have free access to the same info that we do. 200 channels of TV, foods and goods from other countries, cars, etc...

What they do know is that life in Russia under Putin has improved dramatically from their parents had to endure.

Huge infrastructure projects are going on all over Russia, bringing jobs and wealth with them, and the future is brighter for them, than for their parents.

Yes, crime and corruption still are rampant, but not nearly on the same scale as after the fall. In the Soviet Union, the Black Market economy was larger than the real economy. Today, it is only for illegal drugs, etc...

They have open elections, with opposition, on all levels from local to national. And frankly, they aren’t any more corrupt than ours are.

We have to take these changes into account in any calculation involving Russia.


34 posted on 05/11/2014 5:12:41 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: BobL

Oh please...holding an election under the threats of invasion and with a angry mobs going about in the streets smashing symbols of the ukrainian government is coercion..period.


35 posted on 05/11/2014 5:14:25 PM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo in laughter")
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To: BobL
Russians are not majority over there, more like 35-40%, there's no way 75% of people voted, even if they wanted, there were not enough “voting stations”, results were known days ago, one of leaders of “separatists” was discussing them with Russian officials days ago in intercepted communication, there's no way any voting with such a mess going on over there is legitimate. Undoubtedly many people over there are pro-Russian, normally without chaos and instability fueled up by Russia, local leaders should sit at the table with Kiev gov, If they wanted to go for autonomy or even independence and held a referendum without any external pressure, I wouldn't say a word but now It is Balkan style disaster in the making, mainly due to involvement of that large asiatic shit from the east.
36 posted on 05/11/2014 5:16:52 PM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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To: fabian

“Oh please...holding an election under the threats of invasion and with a angry mobs going about in the streets smashing symbols of the ukrainian government is coercion..period.”

If you understood the demographics of that region you’d understand that the Russian side would win in a landslide, coercion or not. The election means nothing...either way - the people there simply WANT OUT of the Ukraine and that is it.


37 posted on 05/11/2014 5:17:45 PM PDT by BobL
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To: tcrlaf

How many Putin propaganda posts have made here today?...

Who do you work for?..

Why are you posting nothing but Putin lies and misinformation....?.
How many Putin Propaganda lies in one day ?

Lets count the amount of KGB spin you have shot off today!!


38 posted on 05/11/2014 5:18:29 PM PDT by ncalburt ( Amnesty-media out in full force)
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To: Grzegorz 246

“The native language of 74.9% of the population of the Donetsk region is Russian, compared with 24.1% Ukrainian.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donetsk


39 posted on 05/11/2014 5:21:01 PM PDT by BobL
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To: BobL

“That is SO TRUE. Russians today are a happy people and PROUD of their country. They also don’t mind helping out Russians that are stuck in other, unfriendly, places.”

LOL !!!


40 posted on 05/11/2014 5:21:50 PM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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To: tcrlaf

Thanks for coming out of the closet, comrade. Before you posted that I wasn’t absolutely sure. Now I know you’ve been into the Kool Aid. As for access, they little or no access to anything other than the party line.


41 posted on 05/11/2014 5:23:25 PM PDT by meatloaf (Impeach Obama. That's my New Year's resolution.)
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To: ncalburt

Then call DHS and report it. You and the rest of the wannabee hyperpatriots need to either, as I have said repeatedly, report people as Russian foreign agents or at least JR. But until you man up and back up your empty screaming, it’s all just hot air.

And be sure of your convictions because it is a felony to make false reports like that.

In the meantime the rest of us will go back to discussing the issue like adults.


42 posted on 05/11/2014 5:24:06 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart (How's that 'lesser evil' workin' out for ya?)
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To: ncalburt

You aren’t helping your cause by acting like a sixth-grader, you know.


43 posted on 05/11/2014 5:24:22 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: ncalburt

Thanks for the link—I actually saw that excellent article through Twitter yesterday.

I confess I am not straight in my understanding on what is actually going on in the Ukraine.

I know I am viewing it through my post WW2 Cold War American lenses. The history of Europe, and of changing borders and ethnic political groupings goes back centuries in this part of the world.

So, who is right and who is wrong is not always clear.

I also am interested in what folks here think Putin’s endgame is. Is the absorption of parts of the Ukraine part of a bigger overall strategy he has in order to dominate other Slavic and ethnic Russian nations, or all of Europe?

I tend to view the notion that we “won” the Cold War as a ruse, which has acted to allow time for the Soviet Union—Russia—to spin off trouble making and costly Muslim and polluted republics and to concentrate on its knitting.

Putin to me seems to be a Russian nationalist, not happy with seeing his nation’s “defeat” in the Cold War, and wanting to make Russia powerful again. He’s KGB trained, so his methods are ruthless, no doubt.

But he is not different than many others throughout history who have built empires to benefit their homeland at the expense of others.

I also believe that our very own Barack Obama and his key Administration personnel are not just leftist, but hard core Communist radicals, trained and and placed for what they are accomplishing right now—the destruction of American as a global power, with the added bonus of stripping away its wealth in the process.

I am trying to see what is happening from a higher level—strategically, realizing I have my own biases.

That is why I am seeking other opinions on what is actually taking place.


44 posted on 05/11/2014 5:25:28 PM PDT by exit82 ("The Taliban is on the inside of the building" E. Nordstrom 10-10-12)
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To: ncalburt
How many Putin propaganda posts have made here today?

How much are Soros, Bork Obunga, the DNC and our libtard/neocon state department paying YOU for this little propaganda schtick??

45 posted on 05/11/2014 5:25:45 PM PDT by varmintman
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To: Norm Lenhart

The Mods have taken to removing Ukraine stories, as they invariably deteriorate into a shouting match with the 5 or 6 EuroMaidan trolls, that IMMEDIATELY pop up on any UK thread within minutes, and all at the same time.

Why they are still allowed to post is beyond me.


46 posted on 05/11/2014 5:26:55 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: tcrlaf

They may as well pull them. I have yet to see one NOT attract the crew. It is like PDS on steroids for these people.


47 posted on 05/11/2014 5:28:03 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart (How's that 'lesser evil' workin' out for ya?)
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To: varmintman

Most likely they are Omidyar Network “Internet Opinion Engineers”.

There have been many media stories about the Maidan internet propaganda operation.


48 posted on 05/11/2014 5:28:09 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: BobL

Just like for 30% in Kiev, language is not a major factor here, in many other areas with majority of Russian speakers there’s no sign of separatism, you could as well claim that Taiwan should be annexed by the PRC because people over there speak Chinese.


49 posted on 05/11/2014 5:28:17 PM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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To: tcrlaf

Who are you trying to fool here.

You been posting NON STOP Putin propaganda here all day
like a paid Troll ,

When your outed you do what the Left always does which is accuse your enemies of what you have been up to!

The fact you lie and deny the Putin KGB police state is dangerous out of control military aggressor shows exactly what you are!

You don’t like your Putin misinformation and lies being uncovered.


50 posted on 05/11/2014 5:30:15 PM PDT by ncalburt ( Amnesty-media out in full force)
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