Skip to comments.Ukrainian speakers leave Donetsk amid pro-Russia surge
Posted on 05/13/2014 10:00:35 AM PDT by FreeReign
Ukrainian speakers in the eastern region of Donetsk have started leaving the area, fearing for their safety as pro-Russian militants tighten their grip.
The declaration on Monday by separatist leaders that their self-declared "Donetsk People's Republic" was now an independent, sovereign state which could ultimately be absorbed into Russia is likely to hasten the exodus.
"If a separate Donetsk People's Republic is founded here, I will have to leave," says Olga, a businesswoman and single mother with a young daughter.
(Excerpt) Read more at bbc.com ...
Like the India-Pakistan breakup, there will likely be a two-way exodus.
Hopefully this time, without the muzzie-like violence.
Eastern Ukraine is going to be a lot like Belfast circa early 1970s.
Percent who consider themselves “Russian” (as opposed to “Ukrainian”): 38%
Percent who consider “Russian” to be their “native” (as opposed to primary) language: 74%
Percent who speak Russian in their own homes: 94%
Ukrainian universities teaching in Russian: 0%
Ukrainian media sources broadcasting in Russian: 5%
Russian recognized as a language of the Ukraine: No.
Language is nationality. America had better learn that quick.
“the aim of the referendum was to break up Ukraine”
The aim of the referendum for Putin to gobble Ukraine.
Hard to know for sure whether Russia is truly democratic. If it is, Putin would be committing electoral suicide by adding 50m Ukrainians who don’t want to be part of Russia. It would be as if the GOP decided to add Mexico to the union by coercive means.
Looks like there is some basis for Pro-Russian vote. These folks might well think life would be better under Putin. The Ukrainians can leave—they will be replaced by Russian Speakers from West Ukraine. This looks to be a re-ajustment of poorly drawn borders-—Russians are on the right side of this—I support them. BUT If they try to take the rest of Keiv—I believe we should help the Kiev Government! This much—and no more. If the Allies had given Sudetenland to Hitler but refused to let him take the rest of The land—it might have avoided WW II.
"Freedom is the sure possession of those alone
who have the courage to defend it."
Just by speaking Russian does not make one a Putinist. Ukraine is a bilingual country and always has been, with Russian being used alongside Ukrainian in Kyiv itself. Russians (at least racially) were involved in the Maidan from the very beginning. It wasn't a racial thing. The polls that have come out of East and South Ukraine show that the vast majority of people, even ethnically Russian, desire a United Ukraine. The Separatists are a minority, but they are armed.
“If the Allies had given Sudetenland to Hitler but refused to let him take the rest of The landit might have avoided WW II.”
You got this history confused. When the Brit/France appeased Hitler and signed over the Sudetenland, the primary concession was that Hitler would NOT make any more land claims. This was solidified in the Munich Pact, I believe, officially.
Then 6 months later, Hitler, invade and took the entire country.
Despite the FR Borscht Bridage’s zeal to support Russian propaganda. Don’t expect Ukraine to give up the east without a fight, after the elections are over. The West is holding Ukraine back until after the elections.
Looks like the recipe for trouble.
No not at all.
Folks who don't want to be part of Russia will now leave Donetsk and Luhansk.
Folks who want to be part of Russia could have done so before the current events in E. Ukraine so there won't be any additional movement in that direction.
“Folks who want to be part of Russia could have done so before the current events in E. Ukraine so there won’t be any additional movement in that direction.”
You could be correct.
BINGO! CAPTAIN OBVIOUS, you’ve been badly needed around here.
Unless they WANT to join Russia, absorbing them can only cause trouble for Putin. Crimea was a special case; Crimeans have regretted joining Ukraine for decades. Kiev should have let them depart peacefully. Instead, they gave Donestk and Luhansk separatists plenty of gray area. You’ll notice Russia has been a lot slower to pounce on these oblasts... because Putin is far less certain that he’d be better off with them as Russian voters.
The only place to go to keep on speaking Ukrainian much longer is going to be the ancient history department of some university...
I think tcrlef believes that without the rest of Russophones in Eastern Ukraine, the Russophone minority in Western/Northern Ukraine would feel much more like a threatened minority. Picture being a Republican in New Hampshire if the South and Big West states seceded: you’d have no hope of political influence in your own nation. You might decide you have more reason to move to Texas.
A bit more to it than that. TV and the internet are shinking the world at an accelerating rate. Even fifteen years from now, there are going to be no more than ten or twelve languages which anybody still speaks: Two Germanic languages (English and German), three Romance languages (French, Spanish, and Italian), one Slavic language (Russian), Hebrew, Ababic, one subcontinent language (Hindi), both flavors of Chinese, Japanese, and Korean, and that's about it.
Ukrainian is a dead language walking. The interviews we're seeing from Ukrain are all in Russian. Everybody in Ukraine who isn't retarded speaks Russian now and even the retards will catch up in five years.
Switzerland does fine with three official languages.
It’s shared values and customs.
I’m certain it’s too late for national reconciliation. The Kiev regime has a choice: negotiate a peace and allow a small portion of their nation to secede, or put down the insurrection by force, and rule by repression with unrest not only in Donetsk and Luhansk, but throughout most of Ukraine in a Northern-Ireland like situation (at BEST!) that lasts for decades. I don’t even hold out much hope for some high-autonomy confederation, since way back in the 90s, Kiev unilaterally suspended Crimean autonomy, abolished the legislature and presidency of Crimea, and subjected Crimea to autocratic rule from Kiev.
“The Kiev regime has a choice: negotiate a peace and allow a small portion of their nation to secede, or put down the insurrection by force, and rule by repression”
The ball is in the insurgents court. They can lay down their arms and come out of the buildings they are holding illegally... and by agreement by Russia, were to come out weeks ago.
Don’t misunderstand me: Ukraine COULD HAVE been a bilingual state. But that ship has sailed. Both languages are getting their propaganda from opposite sides, and there’s not enough in common. (Actually, Switzerland has FOUR official languages,... but also highly autonomous cantons.)
I think the comparison with Northern Ireland is apropos, many parallels, “Holomodor” = “Potato Famine”
For now, “Ukrainian” persists by suppressing Russian. More Ukrainians speak Russian than “Ukrainian” in their own home. In the last census, many of these call Ukrainian their native language because they regard themselves as Ukrainian, not Russian, and Ukrainian is the language of Ukraine. And I think this is where outsiders tragically misunderstood the situation on the ground: they figured Russians were a 17% minority, but when the Western press demonizes “Russians”, all of the 34% of Ukrainians who identified Russian as their “native language” probably identify with those demonized. And that’s a massive supermajority of Donetsk and Luhansk.
Beyond that, the 45% of Ukrainians who choose to speak Russian in their homes (including nearly 100% of Donetsk and Luhansk residents), in the face of official discrimination against Russian, are probably more effective propagandized by Moscow than Kiev. And this is where the portion of Donetsk and Luhansk voters who favor secession could have grown so quickly as unarmed civilians get killed.
Thanks, I'd forgotten about that one...
I disagree about the internet killing off languages. The internet will create a limited number of linguae franca (is that pluralization correct?), but international, internet English (for instance) is shallow, inarticulate, and useless for legal, technical, religious or literary purposes.
One of the revolutions of Anglosphere Protestantism was the elimination of using separate languages for writing vs. speaking, and even in the pre-internet era, there were strongly distinct tones in writing vs. speaking English. We forget that for a millenium, Europe spoke dozens of languages while writing exclusively in Latin. Or that the Islamic world speaks 100 languages, but writes chiefly in Arabic. This is NORMAL. And when Dutch or Norwegian or Swedish people use the internet, they will write in English, but speak in Dutch, Norwegian or Swedish.
There is practically no ethnic difference between Ukrainians and Moscowites. The languages are similar (not the same, but similar) and their histories are intertwined.
no, sudentenland was not the end. If you read the Mein K, Hitler was very clear on what he wanted to do.
Russians (racially)?? the “race” of both Moscowites and Ukrainians are the same, both East Slavic peoples.
Sorry, that's false, and here's why:
There are more languages than that in Africa...
You sure you're not talking about the regime in Kiev?
And they’ll all be gone in 20 years...
Repeating your Russian propaganda narrative makes it no less a lie. It is Russian propaganda no matter how many times you say it. lol
The Russian stooge is back in Russia and was removed legally from office after he quit. He quit because he was going to go to jail for betraying and stealing money from Ukraine.
it would seem to be the correct strategy were one not to wish to assume room temperature..