Skip to comments.Should America Open Its Borders? Reason Presents a Debate on Immigration
Posted on 05/14/2014 9:29:21 PM PDT by ObamahatesPACoal
Does America need more or less immigration? Should we let the free market decide how many immigrant workers the economy can support? Or should a responsible government manage the flow of labor?
On Tuesday, April 22, Reason Foundation Managing Editor Tom Clougherty moderated a debate on immigration reform featuring Cato Immigration Policy Analyst Alex Nowrasteh, Professor of Economics at George Mason University Bryan Caplan, and Executive Director of the Center for Immigration Studies Mark Krikorian.
(Excerpt) Read more at reason.com ...
imagine 50m people pouring into the country (up from the 1-2m/yr now)
then realize they’ll work under the table... no taxes... while straining all our public services. fire, police, medical, correctional, roads, etc. this would result in a required expanse of those public sector services in order to meet the demand. this would mean tax revenues would have to increase... but the number of taxpayers has not.
we all just get hosed.
but don’t worry... they’d all be able to vote for those services by voting dem
seriously, how do we get a divorce from these gold diggers whores?
It always gets to me, that we have millions of illegals in this country, and at the same time, have millions of able bodied people on public assistance.
Anecdotal evidence is that many people not born in this country, are working in fast food, retailing, construction, janitorial work, and farm work.
Of course I can’t say that all of these people are here illegally, but we know many illegals are here working. I never understand why we allegedly need to import people for lower skilled types of jobs, such as fast food and retail, when we have so many unemployed here, who could do these jobs.
Oh yeah, we need another 75 million at least...
Just damn. How many foreign nationals do we need anyway?
Our people are out of work. There’s no pressure on wages to increase. We’ve got a large portion of our populace barely hanging on.
What part of no more more room in the inn, do these idiots not understand?
The people with the appropriate skill to perform fast food, janitorial and farm work are already employed in government.
and, here I thought some of these unskilled people on public assistance, could be easily trained to do a lot of these jobs. Silly me..............
As long as we attract illegals with freebies, the "free market" has very little to do with immigration outcome.
Borders provide structure to a society at every level. Without borders, there is no rule of law, except as a rather primitive form of might makes right.
As an example, the organization holding this debate established a structure that included “borders” relating to time and place, a defined constitution regarding the purpose and the “borders” between participants and spectators, and a governing moderator. Without these structures - definitions, borders and boundaries, limits and laws - this would have merely been chaos.
Entirely “open” borders are no borders at all, and chaos ensues. And when chaos ensues, people will desperately ask for the imposition of orderliness and structure again. Those advocating for open borders are merely hoping to foment such chaos, so that they can be the ones to step into the vacuum and impose a new structure again, a structure of a tyrannical nature of their own choosing. Thus have the Marxists always operated. They’ll accept being voted into tyranny by the shifting demographics of immigration, or they’ll accept imposing tyranny after dismantling the orderly structure of society - either way they win.
“The issue [open borders] is never the real issue - the real issue is always the revolution. The cause [immigration reform] is never the real cause - the real cause is always the acquisition of power.”
Borders, language, culture.
It’s not the people it is the resources they consume.
Should a cell shut down its defense mechanisms and allow any strand of DNA to enter?
Liberals are a cancer.
And what are they now?!
Just keep your nose to the grindstone and keep transferring your wealth to the soetoro so he can redistribute it to whom it really belongs.
And when we have to foot the bill for their benefits while they pay nothing into it? Not just no. Hell no.
You know if I really wanted to screw up a country I’d just open the borders and say hey you! Yeah you. You want free food, free housing, free medical care, be paid under the table tax free so you can save it and move back to your own country and retire like a millionaire? Come and get it. Then payback the white man by forcing him to pay for it all while I lived the high life and laughed my a$$ off...: )
There are literally billions who want to come to the US. The businesses that employ them don't have to pay the social and infrastructure costs.
We bring in 1.1 million LEGAL IMMIGRANTS A YEAR. This isn’t about illegal immigration.
“Alexander “Alex” Nowrasteh is an analyst of immigration policy currently working at the Center for Global Liberty and Prosperity of the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank located in Washington D.C. Nowrasteh is an advocate of freer migration to the United States. He previously worked as the immigration policy analyst at the Competitive Enterprise Institute, another libertarian think tank.”
Here is how the libertarian position looks when they write it down formally.
COMPLETE PLATFORM TEXT
INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS AND CIVIL ORDER
THE ISSUE: We welcome all refugees to our country and condemn the efforts of U.S. officials to create a new Berlin Wall which would keep them captive. We condemn the U.S. governments policy of barring those refugees from our country and preventing Americans from assisting their passage to help them escape tyranny or improve their economic prospects.
THE PRINCIPLE: We hold that human rights should not be denied or abridged on the basis of nationality. Undocumented non-citizens should not be denied the fundamental freedom to labor and to move about unmolested. Furthermore, immigration must not be restricted for reasons of race, religion, political creed, age or sexual preference. We oppose government welfare and resettlement payments to non-citizens just as we oppose government welfare payments to all other persons.
SOLUTIONS: We condemn massive roundups of Hispanic Americans and others by the federal government in its hunt for individuals not possessing required government documents. We strongly oppose all measures that punish employers who hire undocumented workers. Such measures repress free enterprise, harass workers, and systematically discourage employers from hiring Hispanics.
TRANSITIONAL ACTION: We call for the elimination of all restrictions on immigration, the abolition of the Immigration and Naturalization Service and the Border Patrol, and a declaration of full amnesty for all people who have entered the country illegally.
Importing poor people who support big government, while pushing more Americans out of employment and onto welfare is a recipe for a socialist majority. Libertarians for Socialism aren’t ideologues. They are mentally ill.
If you want to hear the libertarian’s, immigration expert speak, go to minute 23.
I lived in Reno and one franchise owner owned 4 or 5 McDonalds around town. There was a rumor one day that ICE was going to raid a McDs and all of a sudden all of their staff bolted.
‘you can have open borders or a welfare state, but not both’...Milton Friedman
Who’s letting Americans in? Maybe theiropinion would be worth listening to.
You overlook what may be the most important issue in the long term. Many immigrants, most now patriotic, productive citizens, spent years and resources to come here. They honored the law and set a wonderful example to their families, friends, and neighbors.
Blanket amnesty and other “immigration reform” measures slaps them in the face and tells the world that their respect for this country and our laws represents foolishness and that those who held our country and our laws in contempt did it the smart way.
The only credible motivations for “immigration reform”, in my opinion, are to create more Democrat voters and promote dependency on big government programs — free stuff!
A ridiculous premise pushed by libertarians.
I understand that the true libertarian view is that when you have a libertarian society, you don’t need the borders. Until then, of course, you do.
If you want to hear the libertarians, immigration expert speak, go to minute 23.
Libertarian society? Do you mean globally? If we are the only country with open borders, how can that be beneficial to us as a nation? Or are we no longer a nation with borders and sovereignty?
We support the removal of governmental impediments to free trade. Political freedom and escape from tyranny demand that individuals not be unreasonably constrained by government in the crossing of political boundaries. Economic freedom demands the unrestricted movement of human as well as financial capital across national borders. However, we support control over the entry into our country of foreign nationals who pose a credible threat to security, health or property.
Of course I cant say that all of these people are here illegally, but we know many illegals are here working.
Open borders is the libertarian philosophy, and it has always been their position.
See post 19.
Open borders is the libertarian philosophy, and it has always been their position.
There are pure libertarians and the basic libertarian philosophy as written into real world politics with the party they formed, and then there are libertarians who are not pure, and have varying degrees of disagreements with libertarianism.
Some oppose Capitalism and promote a socialist view (like Noam Chomsky), some are not for totally open borders, a few are even pro-life, or believe in strong national defense, a few even oppose things like gays in the military and gay marriage, but I’m not really interested in learning each and every individual’s personal level of purity when discussing libertarianism and how it is at war with conservatism.
I am interested in where libertarianism reveals it’s anti-Americanism, anti-God, anti-conservative goals and foundational beliefs.
“...libertarianism and how it is at war with conservatism.”
What kind of meaningless response was that?
Libertarinanism is at war with conservatism.
It is why they are two different “isms”, and why you are promoting one to defeat the other.
The adult in the room is the one againt open borders.