Skip to comments.Can China's New Destroyer Find U.S. Stealth Fighters?
Posted on 05/15/2014 7:56:35 AM PDT by Fennie
Can China's new Type 052D Luyang III destroyers successfully see through the stealth of the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter?
U.K., Chinese and Russian media report the radar on China's new destroyer could track and engage the F-35; however it is not clear if such claims have any validity.
Konstantin Sivkov, director of the Russian Academy for Geopolitical Issues, asserted that the destroyer's active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar system can detect, track and launch weapons against the F-35 at a range of 350 kilometers or about 189 nautical miles, according to a Voice of Russia report.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.usni.org ...
It sounds as if the Russians and the Chinese are blowing smoke here.Since the U.S. has had stealthy aircraft since the 1980’s.At that time the Russians had radars that were not as good as an American radar and even if the Russians improved their radar capabilities the U.S. has had the time and experience to update its stealth aircraft capabilities.
it wouldn’t surprise me if they could - hell, we prolly gave the technology to them to do it with - we’re pretty stupid that way
Or a Democrat voting traitor sold it to them. Anyone seen Bill Clinton, Al Gore or Obama today?
Geez, this will be a “fun” and “informative” thread...
Can’t wait for all the resident FR self-proclaimed “aviation and F35 experts” to weigh in.../s
They are not blowing smoke. What they look for is the absence of radio signals. Stealth tends to be a black hole for all radio emmissions, so... instead of looking for radio reflections (looking for a white dot on a grey field) you look for a lack of ambient radio signals (looking for a black dot on a grey field).
Questions about how effective the stealth capabilites are is one of the reasons why the Navy has requested funding for additional EF-18G aircraft.
So they are claiming to have an SAM with a 189 NM range?
Right there I’m calling BS.
And harking back to my old NAVAIR days, no ship was going to see me in my non-stealth aircraft, until I broke the radar horizon at about 20 miles.
F117A was shot down by using obsolete 1950s radar.
And this obsolete radar made stealth gimmick obsolete overnight.
For some reason Chicoms decided to make their own copy through R&D (reverse engineer and Duplicate).
A quiz question for aviation aficionados:
F-35 can be considered stealth only when 2 internal weapon bays are used and no external weapons attached to the hardpoints.
When using only 2 internal weapon bays F-35s can be easily outgunned.When using under-wing missiles it can be out-maneuvered.
True or false?
You know what else is a black hole for radio emissions? The entire rest of the sky. The emissions don't reflect back off of nothing.
The F-117 got shot down by being predictable and by having the bomb bay open too long.
The F-117 shotdown over Serbia was flying the same flight path that it had been flying on a previous mission if I recall.
The plane was also shot down by AAA not a SAM.Which only tells me that sooner or later if you fire enough rounds into the air your likely going to hit something sooner or later.
In this case it was a luckey shootdown on behalf of the Serbians.The case of the Golden B.B.
I would think launching say 1,000 cruise missiles at targets all at once would destroy any fleet of ships or land targets. Follow up with aircraft after that for any left over targets. I think the future combat will be cruise missiles. The first side that runs out will lose the war.
The “mission planners”, NATO conops, NATO ROE, spies in Italy and an open weapons bay were the reasons 786 was shot down...they failed to follow the highly successful tactics used during DS to ensure the aircraft wouldn’t be compromised.
In my opinion, it was a deliberate act that cost us that aircraft and almost the pilot.
Sorry, not 786, 806...
Not to mention the civilian observers in Italy that watched the F-117s take off and reported that back to the Serbs.
If you know where to look, and you know when to look, you can find them.
SM-2 Block IV has that kind of range, and our fearless leaders have no doubt given the ChiComs all the specs.
Yep, the “observers” I call spies.
During DS the earliest we took off was at dusk based on the mission profile, flight time to target, etc.
We were so far removed from the Iraq border that none had a chance to “know where and when” to look. The aircraft didn’t follow a prescribed egress/ingress flight path into Iraq everynight.
When leaving Italy to Serbia, they were flying in a corridor. Stupid, absolutely stupid or outright treachery...I vote for the latter.
Considering the the Soviets did the math that described stealth, I’m sure they can find a way to detect stealthy aircraft.
The question is, can they target missiles or aim guns with it.
If I understand correctly, they detect stealth aircraft using emitters that are distant from the receivers.
“Stealth” deflects radar waves and prevents them from going back to the emitter. However, separated receivers can receive the deflected radio waves - and find the aircraft.
The "hole return theory" would require unbelieavable power (for area coverage) and pencil beam radar, smaller (from 150 miles up) than the aircract width itself.
Additionally, radio beams difuse, just like waves on the surface of water, so holes close up after a fairly short distance. i.e. if you form a ripple on the surface of water and block its propagation with your finger in one spot, the edges of the ripple will come back together as it expands.
In Yugoslavia, the emitters were cell-phone towers. China and Russia may be relying on those kind of signals, or they may generate some signals using drones.
Cell phone towers sufficed.
Enhance the sensitivity of the receivers and you have a solution in a non-cell area.
The Chinese use the HQ-9, which is advertised to have a range of ~110NM (close to 189km, so maybe typo or I misread). Given its size, I'd say that is about right. The practicality of extreme long range, surface-to-air missiles is limited anyway, because the curvature of the earth puts the radar horizon extremely high and easy to fly under. At 200NM the radar horizon is ~25,000ft. So the radar is blind to everything below that.
So, how is your defense against the F-22? By the time you could possibly “see” it, you are dead.
Take out their airbases before they get airborne is one way.
Cell tower use isn’t based on power, or a hole, it’s based on scatter. Stealth aircraft scatter the reflected signal. With heavy computing it’s theoretically possible to get a rough location of aircraft, but I doubt it’s capabilities. It would be easily spoofed. But at best you couldn’t use such a network for targeting
I admit it. I am, on stealth tech.
I can design you a pretty hacker-resistant professional B2B website though.
I'm sure there is more money in website development, than in my sharing of 25 years of radar experience on FR ;-)
Good luck taking out LAFB before the F-22s can scramble ...
Maybe - but when they turn on these radars do their ships light up like beacons? Do they become missile magnets?
They will have to be forward based. I don’t see them doing US to overseas fighter missions. Those things don’t have toilets.