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How two votes could diminish Britain's role in the world forever
csmonitor.com ^ | May 15, 2014 | Sara Miller Llana

Posted on 05/16/2014 1:05:20 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper

The UK is set for a major shift in its place in the world, as Scots vote on independence this fall and PM David Cameron looks to hold a referendum in 2017 on leaving the EU.

(Excerpt) Read more at csmonitor.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: britain; forkinit; uk

1 posted on 05/16/2014 1:05:20 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
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To: Berlin_Freeper
Today, the Cutty Sark now sits on display on the banks of the Thames in Greenwich. Keith Merritt stands admiring the ship,where he chose to bring his six-year-old grandson on his first visit to London to see “all the good bits of where we were.” But the engineer can’t help but lament that Britain in 2014 is not gazing outward, but increasingly inward, thinking smaller instead of big.
Cutty Sark destroyed by fire
Fire has ripped through the Cutty Sark, reducing the iconic 19th century tea clipper to a charred wreck.
2 posted on 05/16/2014 1:13:02 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
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To: Berlin_Freeper

Cutty Sark:

The ship was badly damaged by fire on 21 May 2007 while undergoing conservation. The vessel has since been restored and reopened to the public on 25 April 2012.


3 posted on 05/16/2014 1:28:04 AM PDT by moose07 (the truth will out ,one day.)
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To: Berlin_Freeper
Scotland puts the great into Great Britain, says Cameron: Prime Minister heads north to 'love-bomb' voters amid poll fears

4 posted on 05/16/2014 2:04:20 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper (You can't be passive and moral.)
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To: Berlin_Freeper
It is interesting and somewhat ironic that Great Britain is working at cross purposes within itself. On the one hand Nigel Ferage is leading an exciting and ever growing movement, UKIP, to take Britain out of the European Union which is at minimum a threat to the integrity of the European union. On the other hand, little Scotland is moving toward independence from Great Britain because the European Union and other multinational organizations like NATO offer tiny breakaway movements like Scotland, the Basques, and the Flemish the prospect of surviving in a new world order under the protection of these multinationals.

As Scotland's breakaway movement succeeds, its survival depends on the vitality of the European Union which is under threat from Nigel Ferage. The Scots want home rule which is certainly more democratic in the sense that their votes would count more than they currently do in London. The indictment led by Nigel Ferage against the European Union is that the European Union is essentially undemocratic, overly bureaucratic, and entirely elitist where the votes of an individual residing in any European country is diluted and swamped among 315 million votes and then frustrated by elitist bureaucrats in Brussels.

The Scots might find they will have traded more democracy for less, more security for less, more prosperity for less.


5 posted on 05/16/2014 2:07:13 AM PDT by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: nathanbedford
It's no more odd than the ongoing fight within the US between proponents of Federal power and those who favor States Rights, an argument that has been going on since, well, since the country was founded pretty much. But I agree, it is kind of odd that nationalism and internationalism are major forces in world today, and in the case of Scottish Nationalists being touted at one and the same time!

I agree with you. The Scots Nationalist case is basically for a larger slice of a much smaller pie. I personally think they will be much the worse for the exchange.

6 posted on 05/16/2014 2:58:54 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: Berlin_Freeper

If Scotland leaves, and the UK also leaves the EU customs union - it will be like all the chains coming off at once.

Scotland has twice as many MPs per person as England: most of them are liberal. Without Scotland, England becomes Conservative.

And without the EU, England becomes free.


7 posted on 05/16/2014 3:19:01 AM PDT by agere_contra (I once saw a movie where only the police and military had guns. It was called 'Schindler's List'.)
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To: agere_contra

“Without Scotland, England becomes Conservative.”

This must worry Cameron no end as he is the biggest CINO politician I have ever seen in English politics!

Mel


8 posted on 05/16/2014 3:59:02 AM PDT by melsec (Once a Jolly Swagman camped by a Billabong.)
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To: agere_contra

Yep, free from trade and travel. The consensus on the street here is that England will give Scotland enough autonomy to stay in the UK, and the EU referendum will fail miserably.


9 posted on 05/16/2014 4:23:19 AM PDT by AnAmericanInEngland
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To: nathanbedford

Consider Scotland and then Neoeuropa...... the American Northeast.

There is no question that if the Neoeuropa was purged, America would be a better place

What was does not need to continue to be what is


10 posted on 05/16/2014 4:28:12 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... History is a process, not an event)
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To: melsec

We need one of the Bushes making a speech there for Euro NWO integration and Scotland attachments... would fly real well...


11 posted on 05/16/2014 5:12:00 AM PDT by lavaroise (A well regulated gun being necessary to the state, the rights of the militia shall not be infringed)
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To: lavaroise

Bailing from the EU might be the best thing England has done for a long time. Loosing Scotland may not be to their advantage though.


12 posted on 05/16/2014 5:30:59 AM PDT by DaveA37
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To: AnAmericanInEngland

The EU is a sinking ship. Its a just a matter of how many more years it will soldier on before finally failing.

The UK will likely vote to leave the EU especially if Nigel Farage manages to become PM in the next few years.

Countries like Greece, Portugal, and many eastern European nations never had the economies to be able to function in the EU and never should have been allowed in. Now they are nothing but a drag on it.


13 posted on 05/16/2014 9:09:00 AM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose o f a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: Berlin_Freeper; UKrepublican; BillyBoy; AuH2ORepublican; fieldmarshaldj; Clintonfatigued

England would well be rid of Scotland’s Labour MPs if you ask me.


14 posted on 05/17/2014 11:02:42 PM PDT by Impy (RED=COMMUNIST, NOT REPUBLICAN)
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To: Impy

Scotland is already a basketcase and politically moonbat, like a giant White Detroit with better scenery. The best of the Scots already left for America long ago. A Conservative in England not wanting to cut them loose should have their head examined. It would also force Scotland to grow up (politically speaking).


15 posted on 05/17/2014 11:21:21 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (Resist We Much)
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To: fieldmarshaldj; BillyBoy

I agree completely.

The Tory leadership is completely against it (morons) but I would imagine the rank and file do not agree with them.

I’ve heard some UK freepers voice opposition though, national pride. I think you gotta put that aside for common sense. Would anyone here object if New England up and decided they wanted out of the union? I would bid fond farewell to their congressional delegations.

I do think it would benefit Scotland also, it’s possible one day they could have a right-of-center government after they’ve as you said “grown up”, and get a local right of center party not affiliated with the Tories, who are heavily disliked in Scotland.


16 posted on 05/18/2014 12:57:58 AM PDT by Impy (RED=COMMUNIST, NOT REPUBLICAN)
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To: Impy

Most of the Northeast, for that matter, the Black Hole of DC (including MD & NoVA), Philadelphia, Detroit, Chicago (Sorry, Impy), and pretty much the entire West Coast above San Diego to Puget Sound would pretty much free the rest of the country.

The Scottish “Right” ought to just start a new party and call it “Liberal” like Australia. Reclaim the name from the Communists who took a positive-sounding word and ideology (of the classic sense) and perverted it into something evil.


17 posted on 05/18/2014 1:19:36 AM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (Resist We Much)
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To: fieldmarshaldj

Last I checked Orange Co is just north of San Diego and one of the most conservative co in the USA.


18 posted on 05/18/2014 1:32:41 AM PDT by TJC (V)
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To: TJC

Excuse me, then above the O.C. northwards, starting at L.A. County. It’s getting late. :-P

Unfortunately, it’s also been trending leftward at an alarming rate like the rest of the state. While Dubya got 60% there in 2004, Zero still got 46% of the vote there in 2012, with Willard getting less than 52%, far below most suburban “Conservative” counties (and McCain barely eked out 50% in ‘08).

Go back to the last year the GOP won the state (1988) and the county voted 68% for GHW Bush to Dukakis’s 31%. Reagan won it with 75%(!) in 1984. That’s when it had its reputation as a premier GOP Conservative county in the nation. A long time ago when the nation was a saner place.


19 posted on 05/18/2014 1:45:13 AM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (Resist We Much)
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To: fieldmarshaldj

I am an English Conservative who, despite frequent periods of despair at the influence of Scottish lefties, still believes in the Union.

I do this because I see Scotland and its people as fellow Britons belonging to a common nation, not as disposable appendages to be cut off and thrown away in the name of present political expediency. I’m sure many Americans who are often exasperated by the attitudes and influences of the Blue States will feel the same.


20 posted on 05/18/2014 2:28:27 PM PDT by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan; Impy; AuH2ORepublican; sickoflibs; Clintonfatigued; BillyBoy

It might be a different story if it were merely a situation of the short term. I say this as a Scottish-American, it’s time to let them go. When the shared ideology and cultural values have become so estranged, it’s wrong to hold one or the other side hostage out of old-time nostalgia.

I have no hesitation to let go (as an American) parts of the United States that similarly share morals, values, ethics, et al, that are absolutely repulsive to mine and antithetical to our Constitution (indeed, taking delight in flagrantly violating it with no repercussions). Let those that champion the values of cultural rot, profligate spending, and leftism be wholly in charge of their own destinies while those that champion values set down by God and explicitly wish to follow the edicts of our Founding Fathers and personal responsibility have their own nation.

Allowing the degenerate aspects of our various nations to drag us ALL down in the name of historical unity is insanity. You don’t allow advanced gangrene to kill the patient, you act swiftly to amputate. If at some point in the distant future when these areas have finally recognized their follies and have extinguished the forces of darkness that led to separation, they can petition to come back.

Better a thousand peaceful states of shared interests and values within each than a few mega-states of hopelessly divided interests and values constantly in internecine battle.


21 posted on 05/18/2014 4:18:50 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (Resist We Much)
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To: fieldmarshaldj

I can see your point, but the emotional tug of being part of a common demos is still a strong one. Besides which, there are still many Scots who despise SNP leftism. It seems wrong to just abandon them to their fate in Salmond’s proposed people’s socialist republic...


22 posted on 05/18/2014 5:09:17 PM PDT by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan

To them I say move south, or fight to change the Socialist state from within once it is independent. Socialism is always unsustainable, which is why it’s better to cut the parasite states loose and let them feed on themselves until they either destroy themselves or figure out the right way to do things.


23 posted on 05/18/2014 5:14:55 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (Resist We Much)
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To: fieldmarshaldj; BillyBoy; AuH2ORepublican; campaignPete R-CT

Making USSA exclaves out of every rat area would be weird , but I would gladly move to America if Chicago left the union.

In which case Del Norte county CA and southwest Oregon should stay.

Where would you put the new capital?

<<<<<The Scottish “Right” ought to just start a new party and call it “Liberal” like Australia. Reclaim the name from the Communists who took a positive-sounding word and ideology (of the classic sense) and perverted it into something evil.<<<<<<<<

YES. The old UK Liberal party wasn’t leftist until the early 20th Century.


24 posted on 05/18/2014 6:30:18 PM PDT by Impy (RED=COMMUNIST, NOT REPUBLICAN)
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To: Impy

The question is how to create a new capital without the old bureaucracy, which would merely make another DC horror show elsewhere. Perhaps putting it in the middle of a rural Kansas or Nebraska county, somewhere decidedly unattractive to the elites, and making it a largely “virtual” government.

Erect a few modest buildings for ceremonial purposes, otherwise the business of governance should be done online. No hundreds of thousands of bureaucrats, elected officials and their flunkies.

Small and efficient for “national” purposes, a return to explicit Constitutional boundaries with all non-federal affairs the purview of states and localities.


25 posted on 05/18/2014 6:46:34 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (Resist We Much)
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan; fieldmarshaldj; BillyBoy; campaignPete R-CT; AuH2ORepublican; NFHale; ...

I live in a so called “blue state”, which is what we should call REPUBLICAN states, but I digress.

Anyway, while it would be sad if say NYC were no longer part of America, I say it’s more than worth it to rid us of all those socialists they send to Congress. I’m tired of half this country’s population being screwed over by the ignorance of the other half.

It’s true millions of decent people live in commie red areas, outnumbered, some trapped by circumstance. It’s an extreme solution to be sure but I think we’re just about there. If we don’t get the White House back with a decent Republican in 2016 then we’re gonna have conservatives on the Supreme Court replaced with pinkos which is probably game over.


26 posted on 05/18/2014 6:46:56 PM PDT by Impy (RED=COMMUNIST, NOT REPUBLICAN)
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To: Impy; NFHale; sickoflibs; Clintonfatigued; fieldmarshaldj; BillyBoy

“...It’s an extreme solution to be sure but I think we’re just about there.”

The time of try to get along is gone. The time of getting pissed and pooped on is done.

Action needs to be taken. I’ve been preaching about splitting up/Civil War 2 back when posts like that were pulled by the mods.

Some of us get it. Too bad “our” side is saddled with Socialist “Conservatives” and the Lawrence Welk Society. They need to go too. I actually see them as a bigger threat than the out-and-out leftist pinkos in many ways.

And 2016 is 100% it. One more lib on the SCOTUS and for real it’s game-set-match.


27 posted on 05/19/2014 8:43:24 AM PDT by GOPsterinMA (Khent is not stable... be advised...)
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