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Drug Legalization: Why It Wouldn't Work in the United States
Police Chief Magazine ^ | May 2014 | By Edmund Hartnett, Deputy Chief and Executive Officer, Narcotics Division, New York City Police Dep

Posted on 05/17/2014 4:07:46 PM PDT by mgist

The issue of drug legalization is a complex one. Most Americans do not favor it, yet there is a strong and very vocal lobby in the United States that feels that legalization would be the proper course to take. When this vocal minority raises the issue in any community, citizens look to the police chief to speak to the issue. Police chief are encouraged to borrow from this article as they prepare their speeches.

Proponents’ Arguments Proponents of drug legalization believe that the current policies regarding drugs have been harmful to individuals, families, and society as a whole. They strongly oppose current drug laws and policies for a variety of reasons. Some see the laws as an impingement of individual freedoms. Some see them as a colossal waste of government resources citing the opinion that the legalization of drugs could produce millions in tax revenues while at the same time putting drug dealers out of business and ensuring quality controls in the production of drugs. Some feel that legalization would reduce overall crime. Some argue that the laws are a form of institutionalized racism designed to keep minorities as a permanent disenfranchised underclass by keeping them in prison, addicted, or completely dependent on government aid. Others take what they view as a humanitarian approach, arguing that certain substances should be made legal for medicinal purposes. Some have chosen to refer to the issue as harm reduction instead of drug legalization in an apparent effort to soften the issue and give it a more humanitarian tone. Still others view the prohibition against drugs as an inherently flawed and impossible strategy that has exacerbated crime and violence and has contributed to a sense of despair and hopelessness for millions of Americans.

It is also interesting to note that the proponents of legalization include supporters from across the political spectrum, from progressives on the far left to libertarians on the far right. Liberal Democratic Congressman Charles Rangel is adamantly opposed to drug legalization, while conservative icon and columnist William F. Buckley has long been a proponent of making drugs legal. Congressman Rangel has referred to legalization as “a very dangerous idea” that should “be put to rest once and for all.”1

Opponents to Legalization Although it is clear the majority of U.S. citizens are in favor of keeping the use, sale, and possession of drugs illegal, much of the writing from the antilegalization viewpoint comes from law enforcement and government officials. Former New York City Mayor Ed Koch once described drug legalization as “the equivalent of extinguishing a fire with napalm.”2 Although many acknowledge that the so-called war on drugs has had mixed success, they believe that the alternative would have catastrophic effects on the nation. They believe that the legalization of drugs would increase use, lead to more experimentation by youth, and exacerbate the existing deleterious effects that drugs have on society. They are of the opinion that government subsidization of addicts would have crippling effects on the economy. They also feel that legalization would help to create a large black market for drugs. Antilegalization proponents also point out that drug dealers and hardcore addicts would not suddenly become productive, law-abiding members of society. The antilegalization point of view is that dealers will still be involved in crime and violence and that users will still need to support themselves by engaging in criminal activity. Basically, they believe that the legalization of drugs would lead to increases, not reductions, in crime because there would be more addicts and because of the aforementioned black market. Also, opponents of legalization often cite statistics that show that drug prevention initiatives, drug awareness curricula in schools, and drug treatment programs are working. They point to the fact that there are fewer addicts today than there were 20 years ago.

Drugs and Crime There are two schools of thought on the issue of drug legalization and crime. Do drugs cause crime? Does drug use inevitably lead to crime? If drugs were made legal, would there be less crime? If the government subsidized addicts, would they still engage in criminal conduct? What would happen to drug dealers and drug gangs if drugs were legalized? Although the issue is complex, both groups agree that drugs and crime are inexorably linked.

Many legalization supporters believe that property crime, particularly burglary, larceny from persons (purse snatchers, chain snatchers, and pickpockets), auto theft, theft from autos, and shoplifting would decrease by 40-50 percent if drugs were made legal. Similarly, many believe that the terms “drug-related murder” and “drive-by shooting” would become outdated once drugs were legalized. In their view, turf wars would be eliminated because there would no longer be a need to fight for one’s turf.

Additionally, there are those who point out that drug enforcement is a waste of valuable law enforcement resources since statistically most drug users do not get caught. Thus, the deterrent effect of criminalization is lost. Todd Brenner uses the example of marijuana arrests. In 1987 approximately 25 million people in the United States used marijuana, the most easily detectable drug, yet only 378,000 arrests were made; roughly one arrest for every 63 users.3 His point is that the public would be better served if the police targeted crimes in which they had a better success rate. Also, legalization supporters believe that once drugs were legalized, the government could pay less attention to drug-related crime and spend more time and money on treatment, rehabilitation, education, and job training programs. Other benefits cited would be reduced prison populations, more manageable caseloads for judges and attorneys, and better relations between the public and the police.

Many believe that traditional organized crime would be seriously affected by legalization. Benjamin and Miller write: “The Mafia would not disappear, because organized crime would be able to survive on other criminal activities, such as loan sharking, gambling, prostitution, and child pornography. But drug legalization would remove the backbone of organized crime’s profits, causing it to diminish in importance.”4

Opponents to legalization obviously do not see legalization as a panacea that will make crime go away. They see a clear connection between drug use and crime and, perhaps more importantly, between drug use and violence. Joseph Califano, the author and a member of President Johnson’s cabinet, stated: “Drugs like marijuana and cocaine are not dangerous because they are illegal; they are illegal because they are dangerous.”5 The DEA reports that six times as many homicides are committed by persons under the influence of drugs than those looking for money to buy drugs and that most arrestees for violent crimes test positive for drugs at time of arrest.6 Speaking to a Congressional subcommittee on drug policy in 1999, Donnie Marshall, then deputy administrator of DEA, spoke of drug use, crime, and violence. He said that there is “a misconception that most drug-related crimes involve people who are looking for money to buy drugs. The fact is that most drug-related crimes are committed by people whose brains have been messed up with mood-altering drugs.”7

Legalization opponents are convinced that the violence caused by drug use “will not magically stop because the drugs are legal. Legal PCP isn’t going to make a person less violent than illegally purchased PCP.”8 Susan Neiberg Terkel echoes these sentiments by saying that legalizing drugs “cannot change human nature. It cannot improve the social conditions that compel people to engage in crime, nor can it stop people from using drugs as an excuse to be violent.”9 The belief is that drugs, legal or not, often lead to violence. Erich Goode, a SUNY professor and a proponent of harm reduction, writes: “It is extremely unlikely that legalization will transform the violent nature of the world of heavy, chronic drug abuse very much. That violence is a part of the way that frequent, heavy drug users live their lives; it is systemic to their subculture.”10

It is interesting to note that the federal approach to drugs and crime is not solely linked to arrest and incarceration. In Congressional testimony in 1999, Barry McCaffrey, then-director of the U.S. Office of National Drug Control Policy, stated: “We cannot arrest our way out of our nation’s drug problem. We need to break the cycle of addiction, crime, and prison through treatment and other diversion programs. Breaking the cycle is not soft on drugs; it is smart on defeating drugs and crime.”11

Public Health Concerns Opponents of legalization seem to be just as committed as the prolegalization lobby. They believe that the legalization of drugs would have devastating effects on public health, the economy, quality of life, American culture, and society as a whole.

The advocacy group Drug Watch International points out that drugs are illegal “because of their intoxicating effect on the brain, damaging impact on the body, adverse impact on behavior, and potential for abuse. Their use threatens the health, welfare, and safety of all people, of users and nonusers alike.”12 Legalization advocates contend that the same statement could be made about alcohol.

William J. Bennett, former director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy, responds to that claim, arguing “that legalized alcohol, which is responsible for some 100,000 deaths a year, is hardly the model for drug policy. As Charles Krauthammer has pointed out, the question is not which is worse, alcohol or drugs. The question is, can we accept both legalized alcohol and legalized drugs? The answer is No.”13 Morton M. Kondracke of the New Republic magazine discusses another comparison between drugs and alcohol: “Of the 115 million Americans who consume alcohol, 85 percent rarely become intoxicated; with drugs, intoxication is the whole idea.”14

Legalization opponents believe that our already burdened health care industry would be overwhelmed if drugs were legal. This would come in the form of direct results of drug use (more overdoses, more AIDS patients, and more illness stemming from addiction) and indirect results of drugs (more injuries due to drug-related violence, accidents, and workplace incidents). They also believe that legalization would increase the number of emergency room visits, ambulance calls, and fire and police responses. The ONDCP reports that in 2002 direct health care costs attributable to illegal drug abuse were $52 billion.15

In addition, legalization opponents disagree with legalization advocates regarding whether legalization would increase drug use. Legalization opponents believe that drug use would increase dramatically if drugs were made legal and easy to obtain. William J. Bennett uses the example of crack cocaine. He writes: “When powder cocaine was expensive and hard to get, it was found almost exclusively in the circles of the rich, the famous, or the privileged. Only when cocaine was dumped into the country, and a $3 vial of crack could be bought on street corners, did we see cocaine use skyrocket —this time largely among the poor and disadvantaged.”16 The DEA also takes issue with the legalization lobby on the link between easier access to drugs and an increase in addiction from a humanitarian standpoint: “The question isn’t whether legalization will increase addiction levels —it will—it’s whether we care or not. The compassionate response is to do everything possible to prevent the destruction of addiction, not make it easier.”17

Drugs Tied to Terrorism In the aftermath of September 11, it was evident that enormous amounts of money were part of a global terrorist network. Much of this money was hidden in ostensibly legal outlets, primarily banks, investments, and charitable organizations. They were correctly targeted by law enforcement agencies and, in many cases, frozen; thereby denying terrorists access to the money. Many experts believe that terrorists are now using narcotics trafficking to fund their activities. Although much of this activity seems to be centered in the Afghanistan and Pakistan region (sometimes referred to as the Golden Crescent in law enforcement circles), all international narcotics investigations now have to add terrorism to their list of concerns. Legalization would only exacerbate this problem and put more money into the terrorists’ bank accounts.

The DEA has identified links between drug suppliers and terrorism. Their investigations, again primarily in Afghanistan and Pakistan, have shown connections among traffickers in heroin and hashish, money launderers, and al Qaeda members. They also suspect a drug-related connection involving al Qaeda and the train bombings in Madrid. According to DEA, “The bombers swapped hashish and ecstasy for the 440 pounds of dynamite used in the blasts, which killed 191 people and injured more than 1,400 others. Money from the drugs also paid for an apartment hideout, a car, and the cell phones used to detonate the bombs.”18

Economy Issues Legalization advocates claim that if drugs are legal it will be a financial windfall for the American economy. They believe that all the public funds now wasted on the enforcement of drug laws and related matters could then be used for the good of society in areas such as education, health care, infrastructure, and social services. As mentioned earlier, some believe that drugs could eventually be taxed and thus create much-needed revenue. The DEA’s response is: “Ask legalization proponents if the alleged profits from drug legalization would be enough to pay for the increased fetal defects, loss of workplace productivity, increased traffic fatalities and industrial accidents, increased domestic violence and the myriad other problems that would not only be high-cost items but extremely expensive in terms of social decay.”19

Medical Marijuana The antilegalization point of view rejecting the use of marijuana to ease the pain of those suffering from a variety of illnesses and conditions may appear harsh and insensitive. Their view is that there are safer, more effective drugs currently available and that there is therefore no need to rely on medicinal marijuana. The DEA states that the “clear weight of the evidence is that smoked marijuana is harmful. No matter what medical condition has been studied, other drugs have been shown to be more effective in promoting health than smoked marijuana.”20 They also believe that many proponents of the use of medicinal marijuana are disingenuous, exploiting the sick in order to win a victory in their overall fight to legalize drugs. They point to studies that show that marijuana smoke contains hundreds of toxins, similar to cigarettes, and that prolonged use can lead to serious lung damage. This, they feel, can only exacerbate existing health problems, especially for people with compromised immune systems. The DEA cites the fact that marijuana has been rejected as medicine by the American Medical Association, the American Glaucoma Society, the American Academy of Ophthalmology, the International Federation of Multiple Sclerosis Societies, and the American Cancer Society.21

Harm Reduction The term “harm reduction” is anathema to the antilegalization lobby. They believe that “harm reduction, a cover-all term coined by the legalizers, is a euphemism encompassing legalization and liberalized drug policy, and can best be defined as ‘a variety of strategies for making illicit drug use safer and cheaper for drug users, at the expense of the rest of society, regardless of cost.’”22 The passion surrounding the issue of harm reduction is illustrated by Drug Watch International: “Harm reduction abandons attempts to free current drug users and encourages future generations to try drugs. It asserts that drug use is natural and necessary. Rather than preventing harm and drug use, harm reduction feebly attempts to reduce the misery level for addicts. Harm reduction forsakes a portion of the population, often the poor and minorities, to lifetime abuse of drugs.”23

Opponents of harm reduction see it as a very dangerous message. They complain that, instead of addressing and eventually eliminating the problems of addiction, harm reduction creates a situation that prolongs the agony of the addicted, their families and their community.

Public Reaction A 1998 poll by the Family Research Council showed that eight out of 10 responders rejected the legalization of cocaine and heroin. The same poll asked whether they would support making these drugs legal in a manner similar to alcohol; 82 percent responded “No.” A 1999 Gallup poll revealed that 69 percent of Americans are against the legalization of marijuana. In addition, another Gallup poll showed that 72 percent were in favor of drug testing in the workplace. However, one of the better indicators of the public’s disdain for drugs is the fact that an estimated 50 million Americans who have used drugs in their youth have now rejected them.24

The U.S. Department of Justice National Drug Intelligence Center (NDIC) reveals some additional alarming statistics. In 2002 an estimated 35.1 million people aged 12 or older reported using an illegal drug within the past year; approximately 3.2 million people were drug-dependent or drug abusers.25 Based on this set of figures, there is still a significant demand for drugs in America and multitudes willing to supply the drugs. It is this demand for drugs that is at the heart of the issue. Speaking from a law enforcement perspective, it is clear that we can make millions of drug arrests, but if we don’t address the demand side of the problem, the best we can hope for is maintenance of the status quo.

Progress in this regard has been achieved and considerable inroads have been made through years of proactive prevention and education efforts. By 1999 the Office of National Drug Control Policy reported that drug use in America had been cut in half and cocaine use was reduced by 75 percent.26 Nevertheless, in spite of these promising statistics, the across-the-board nature of the drug problem in America indicates that we are far from declaring victory.

Speaking Out The process of completing this project has led to a reexamination of my personal opinions and values on the issue of drug legalization. I assume that it is normal to be introspective when exploring both sides of a broad and complex problem. As a parent, a citizen, and a law enforcement official, I am clearly a stakeholder in this issue. I was concerned that my views in light of my police background would make me sound like an ideologue. As a public administrator, I hope that I reinforced my opinions against the legalization of drugs with sound logic and analysis.

My research allowed me to see the issue from a broader outlook. I now understand the pro-legalization viewpoint much better. Although I am still strongly opposed to the notion of drug legalization, I realize that, for the most part, they are Americans, from a broad field, who are truly committed to a cause in which they believe. Although they are pursuing a course that is dangerous for America, I respect their passion and edication. But they are woefully wrong on this issue.

I encourage police executives to speak out against drug legalization, and I hope the information in this article has provided some of the resources they need as they prepare to make these speeches. ■


TOPICS: Government
KEYWORDS: druglegalization; legalizeddrugs; wod
Very good article from a police chief. Bottom line, Soros and the cartels he launder money for are sponsoring it.

They are pouring $BILLION into this campaign. It is repleat with the anti war Sheehan's (in pain this time), the endless reports from "subject matter experts" of how great marihuana is, and the armies go bloggers singing it's praises.

As soon as it's done, and the cartels run free under the smoke of legalization, all these people will dissappear.

1 posted on 05/17/2014 4:07:46 PM PDT by mgist
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To: mgist

Yeah, that prohibition has worked out so well for the rest of us...


2 posted on 05/17/2014 4:21:35 PM PDT by Mechanicos (When did we amend the Constitution for a 2nd Federal Prohibition?)
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To: mgist

The job of the police is to enforce the law not to tell us what the law should be.


3 posted on 05/17/2014 4:24:58 PM PDT by arista
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To: Mechanicos

We must have perpetual warfare to achieve peace!


4 posted on 05/17/2014 4:28:22 PM PDT by EEGator
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To: mgist

Uh, maybe we could do with fewer than half of the LEO’s currently employed?

I not a druggie sympathizer but something has to change. The war on drugs has caused a major erosion of our civil rights.

How about this?

You can put anything you want into your body but if you end up a heap of shit in a gutter as a result don’t expect the rest of us to bail you out with our tax dollars.

Never mind. It’ll never work because we’ve become a silly culture, society, and country.


5 posted on 05/17/2014 4:31:41 PM PDT by x1stcav ("The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there.")
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To: mgist

Too bad drug abusers don’t live in isolation where they can’t inflict their addictions on innocent bystanders.


6 posted on 05/17/2014 4:32:50 PM PDT by RginTN
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To: mgist

The police chief repeatedly relies on stats from 1999. There’s no ‘punch’ to using stats from 16 years ago. Does he mean from 1979 to 1999 there was a drop in number of addicts or is he speaking of another time period? And how does 1987 stats relate to a different world in 2014? Nicely written but no meat. (and no, I’m not for the legalization of heroin or cocaine or PCP etc)


7 posted on 05/17/2014 4:36:41 PM PDT by blueplum
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To: mgist
Druggies should be given as much of whatever substance of abuse they choose, for free.

Darwin will take care of the rest.

Once all the druggies have gone to their just reward, the rest of us can live in peace.

8 posted on 05/17/2014 4:37:43 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ("The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government." --Tacitus)
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To: All

The statists will always find a reason to tell others how to live their lives. They can’t help themselves.


9 posted on 05/17/2014 4:39:00 PM PDT by andyk (I have sworn...eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.)
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To: mgist

This is a difficult issue for sure. I doubt if you could get an overwhelming majority for either side of the argument even here at FR.

But we are running an interesting experiment in Colorado. Will we get big increases in health problems, absenteeism and the like? Fair chance.

Will we see increases in the use of hard drugs? Fair chance.

Will we see real reductions in convictions for drug use? Fair chance.

Will we see real reductions in crime. Now that is the question.

I say let the experiment run and let us view the data honestly and make rational decisions based on what we learn. (Yes, I realize that politicians don’t normally make rational decisions but one can at least hope that it can happen in this case).


10 posted on 05/17/2014 4:42:40 PM PDT by InterceptPoint
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To: mgist
The author wasted a lot of words. The simple reason that legalization won't work in the United States is that the "war on drugs" is the most profitable industry in America. While the drugs themselves corrupt users and their families, the mere fact that they are illegal has corrupted our entire society with artificial profits created solely by the illegality of the drug trade. Our law enforcement and courts have been incentivized to corruption, a culture of violence has replaced the open competition of legal markets, and our prisons are now filled with nonviolent inmates. The war on drugs has shredded our Constitution with a police state in which criminal intent is no longer required for conviction of possessing a banned substance, so now innocent citizens can be set up with planted contraband to justify conviction of a crime or seizure of their property.

That's why the chief insists that legalization will never work here. Freedom is too dangerous in the Land of the Free.

11 posted on 05/17/2014 4:47:31 PM PDT by Always A Marine
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To: mgist

If one wants “Zombie America” ... then, sure, legalize these illegal drugs and let them all go all out and crazy. These kinds of drugs (most of which are illegal now in most locations) are the SCOURGE of our society. These people who want to legalize them are stupid and crazy.


12 posted on 05/17/2014 4:53:56 PM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: mgist

As a former Prosecutor (and know almost all the Prosecutors in my office felt the same) I completely disagree.

On the front lines you see that the War on Drugs is mostly just a business. Billions are made by keeping the “war” going. Also, in NOVA we had some great education and clinics which worked wonders.

While I’m not going to write and article, the side benefit would be the end of Cartels and it would defund Terrorists.

We did our jobs and prosecuted. Bt legalization would work. Could not disagree more.


13 posted on 05/17/2014 5:01:53 PM PDT by RIghtwardHo
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14 posted on 05/17/2014 5:17:50 PM PDT by RedMDer (May we always be happy and may our enemies always know it. - Sarah Palin, 10-18-2010)
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To: blueplum

This is an old article, he refers to William F. Buckley as if he were still alive and Charley Rangel as if he were still a congressman.


15 posted on 05/17/2014 5:26:42 PM PDT by eclecticEel ("The petty man forsakes what lies within his power and longs for what lies with Heaven." - Xunzi)
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To: mgist

Legalize it and tax it. Taxes are the quickest way to put anything out of business.


16 posted on 05/17/2014 5:43:15 PM PDT by jmacusa
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To: mgist

Why is something that has never been tried automatically deemed a failure?


17 posted on 05/17/2014 5:45:28 PM PDT by jmacusa
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To: RIghtwardHo
RIghtwardHo said: "... the side benefit would be the end of Cartels"

Absolutely. Imagine trying to make a profit on a weed that almost anybody could grow and would grow if not for the legal consequences.

Even in Colorado the legal stuff is in short supply and that, coupled with the attractiveness of it being legal and the taxes on it, are supporting prices that are higher than the illegal stuff. This won't last long I hope.

The entire distribution channel of illegal drugs has to be implemented by people who expect a financial reward that justifies the risk of prison or death at the hands of competitors.

Legal drugs could be manufactured using legal mass production, transported in trucks driven by drivers who face no legal consequences for doing their job, and by retailers forced to price their product competitively.

I see no indications that the War on Some Drugs has done anything but increase the financial rewards of criminality and fill the prisons with people who would otherwise have to get a 9 to 5 job.

The War on Some Drugs has almost destroyed the Bill of Rights. Only criminals need guns. Anybody carrying cash is obviously breaking the law and the money should be confiscated. Drug dealers are so wary of being ripped off that the cops have to conduct dark-of-night no knock raids, shooting any dogs in the vicinity.

I personally don't care if people destroy their lives by using drugs, failing to get an education, or not providing value to an employer sufficient to survive. I should not be forced to pay for the results of these human weaknesses.

18 posted on 05/17/2014 6:10:59 PM PDT by William Tell
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To: jmacusa
Good point. Actually what is being dicussed is the re-legalization of substances that were at one time not criminalized.

So its not IF it these can be legal - they already have been; and with much less mayhem and corruption.

19 posted on 05/17/2014 6:17:17 PM PDT by corkoman
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To: mgist

The push from influential political constituents for legalizing harmful drugs is another indication of increasing corruption in business, academia and politics.


20 posted on 05/17/2014 6:21:26 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of corruption smelled around the planet.)
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To: mgist

It used to work just fine. And if done correctly a lot of problems go away, the black market just can’t compete with Pfizer and DuPont on quality, price or distribution network.


21 posted on 05/17/2014 6:24:20 PM PDT by discostu (Seriously, do we no longer do "phrasing"?!)
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To: mgist

Did you know that if you score too high on the test, the police won’t hire you? Today, they only want drones and mules in uniforms. Head knockers to the front of the line. Remember, you are no longer a “Citizen” to the folks-in-blue, you’re a “Civilian”.

This article is written at a high school level with old stats, long-winded sentences and poor structure.

If you want to smoke weed, go ahead. Tain’t no bidness of nobody. You give up the Maker’s Mark, and they’ll give up the sinsemilla. Why are LEO’s trying to control people’s personal/private/non-violent behavior?
I’m pro-choice. You smoke ‘em if you want ‘em.

BTW -Grand Pops rode an Indian when he was a cop back in the bad old days. Pops had to settle for a Harley.


22 posted on 05/17/2014 6:42:29 PM PDT by Macoozie (1) Win the Senate 2) Repeal Obamacare 3) Impeach Roberts)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Drug Legalization: Why It Wouldn't Work in the United States

The only thing worse than drug legalization is drug Prohibition.

Tyrannical contraband law will never solve such a problem; it will only invariably make it worse. We saw the same thing with alcohol (a drug worse than all other drugs combined).

The crusading prohibitionist mind, with its hysterical, self-assured embrace of overt Tyranny, is more of a threat than any drug.

Asset forfeiture, no-knock warrants, long prison sentences for non-criminals, destruction of the Fourth Amendment, corruption in law enforcement, black markets, violent crime: all are predictable corollaries of the Tyrannical War on Drugs.

Prohibitionism is the only "treatment" which is far worse than the problem it seeks to address!

23 posted on 05/17/2014 6:53:38 PM PDT by sargon
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
I'm with you. Plus I'll add that they only need to register as drug users first and agree to cancel their voter registration and driver's licenses.

Most substances of abuse are comparatively cheap to manufacture, particularly compared to the societal costs of the war on drugs and the parallel druggie war on the populace to plunder them for the drugs.

24 posted on 05/17/2014 7:05:39 PM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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“legalization would help to create a large black market for drugs”; Just like the black market for alcohol and nicotine after it was made legal... er ah... wait...


25 posted on 05/17/2014 7:16:43 PM PDT by RC51
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To: RC51

PROHIBITION is a lesson in history, and those unwilling to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Some will always seek that which is forbidden fruit while young.....so the wisdom is that ‘regulating morality’ is difficult at best. Some things need to be controlled, but to what extent do we continue to lock up teenagers and young adults....

That’s the system creating criminals where none otherwise would have existed long term. Most young people outgrow a tendency to criminal activity. Even the hardest criminals are only institutionalized repeat offenders at a rate of 4-5%...


26 posted on 05/17/2014 7:26:36 PM PDT by Kackikat
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To: RIghtwardHo

I agree...a lesson that should have been learned from Prohibition.


27 posted on 05/17/2014 7:27:35 PM PDT by Kackikat
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To: mgist

With most criminal activity either directly, or indirectly related to illegal drugs, imagine the effect on law enforcement if drugs are legalized? What will be done with all the excess police? Reassign them to Obama’s private security force?


28 posted on 05/17/2014 7:31:34 PM PDT by fso301 (uires that you believe)
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To: jmacusa

Since the ‘War on Drugs’ there has been no ability to control use and look at the cartels infiltrations of our borders, increase in US use, and the under ground black markets...not to mention the turf wars and murders by gangs. Other groups trying to control the drug channels like Jamaican Posse in 1970s, Asian Gangs 1990s, etc.

Even government agencies like CIA involvement, it’s been total corruption of our governments local, state and federal, which is now leading to Tyranny by destroying our search and seizure laws implementing police state tactics and where does it end? We hear of mistakes where innocents have their doors knocked down, family members injured or killed...why? The results are screaming wrong approach!


29 posted on 05/17/2014 7:35:26 PM PDT by Kackikat
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To: mgist
Marijuana prohibition is dead, Chief. It's not coming back.


30 posted on 05/17/2014 7:35:53 PM PDT by Ken H
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To: arista

“The job of the police is to enforce the law not to tell us what the law should be.”

Excellent point and the only point I think is worth mentioning I response to this article.


31 posted on 05/17/2014 7:47:02 PM PDT by CodeToad (Arm Up! They Are!)
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To: Ken H

Also by Quinnipiac, Hillary Clinton defeating GOP candidates. Vote for Hillary then because she has overwhelming support in the polls???


32 posted on 05/17/2014 8:25:08 PM PDT by RginTN
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To: Abathar; Abcdefg; Abram; Abundy; albertp; Alexander Rubin; Allosaurs_r_us; amchugh; ...
The stench is strong with this one...



Libertarian ping! Click here to get added or here to be removed or post a message here!

33 posted on 05/17/2014 9:29:43 PM PDT by bamahead (Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master. -- Sallust)
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To: Always A Marine

Bravo, brother. Well said!

Our oath is to the Constitution. The WOSD trashes it. Outlaw the drug war and arrest drug warriors and their groupies!

Semper fi,

D. C. Wright
USMC Retired
III/OK


34 posted on 05/17/2014 11:04:03 PM PDT by dcwusmc (A FREE People have no sovereign save Almighty GOD!!! III OK We are EVERYWHERE!!!)
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To: mgist
There's one big flaw on the drug prohibition side. They ignore the fact that drugs are illegal, but they are still available to anyone, who wants to get them. So, what does drug prohibition actually accomplish. They also ignore the constitutional issue. The Federal Government has zero authority to do squat about drugs. They ignore any cost-benefit analysis. What is accomplished by drug prohibition and what is the cost?

I believe in freedom. Individuals, families, friends, organizations can accomplish alot more in minimizing the harm from drug use than a cumbersome, expensive, corrupt, police/legal system. The little battalions are more effective than big bureaucracies.

35 posted on 05/17/2014 11:34:42 PM PDT by Jabba the Nutt (You can have a free country or government schools. Choose one.)
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To: Jabba the Nutt

we don’t have prohibition of drugs, or even a war on drugs. We are inundated with deadly drugs. Imagine if people like you are deceived by the cartels/Soros $BILLION campaign, imagine children? They are told its’ medical and good for you.

Pharmaceutical drugs are a perfect example of how drug legalization doesn’t work. Opiates have become the leading cause of accidentals deaths in the US, surpassing alcohol and even car accidents. Afghan poppy fields, protected by our government, have historically the highest production ever. Pure heroin is flooding world markets, and world governments are complicit. We are being deceived like children.

Opiates today are the #1 killer in accidental deaths in the US. Surpassing car accidents and alcohol related deaths.

http://elitedaily.com/news/world/prescription-painkillers-overtake-car-crashes-leading-accidental-death-us/

There is no war on drugs, we are a narco nation. Obama is beholden to the Middle Eastern Muslim Brotherhood and Al Qaeda heroin cartels. Benghazi, Egypt, Syria, Lybia, talks with Iran etc are examples of Obama using the US military, and resources to help the Muslim Brotherhood. Everything he has done in the middle east, proves that.

The drug legalization efforts are funded by drug cartels, and bankers who launder their money. They want more access to American markets and have a need to launder enormous amounts of cash with ease. Those thinking for a minute that the sociopaths who make their money off the misery of others, will bring their products into regulated, taxed, markets, and sing Koombaya, are horribly mistaken

The cartels murder competitors, they kill women and children for revenge of anyone else who gets in their way, and buy off politicians and judges. Chavez “legalized” drugs and turned Venezuela into the murder capital of the world. They have cocaine on every corner, but no toilet paper.

Remember that heroin is produced in Afghanistan. These levels of pure cheap heroin aren’t getting without some level of government complicity. Gang members have testified that the DEA has agreements with the Sinaloa cartels to bring the drugs Chicago. Remember the ATF gave murderous Sinaloa arsenals of weapons in Fast and Furious? Just like the State Dept is doing with Muslim Brotherhood, a heroin carel, in the middle east.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/03/us-bank-mexico-drug-gangs

“We are under the same yoke that China was under during the opium wars. This is not accidental or by chance.” Heroin was always part of the legalization strategy, it is legal in Rx, the FDA has even approved it for children. Heroin turned China, Iran, Afghanistan, into slave nations. It was intentional.


36 posted on 05/18/2014 4:26:30 AM PDT by mgist (.)
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To: mgist

Interesting article on zerohedge, Friday. Or maybe it was the comments.

How Marijuana Legalization in America Is Destroying Mexican Drug Cartel Business

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-16/how-marijuana-legalization-america-destroying-mexican-drug-cartel-business


37 posted on 05/18/2014 6:26:42 AM PDT by KGeorge (Till we're together again, Gypsy girl. May 28, 1998- June 3, 2013)
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To: mgist

With respect, it’s a very dated article that is groping for a cohesive argument. And writing as a chief of a narcotics division, he can save us the crocodile tears of concern for those poor unfortunates who are addicted. It sort of begs the question whether they exhibited that concern before or after they smashed down some doors in a no knock raid, or if they were consumed with angst before or after they received the proceeds from asset forfeitures.

While I’m no particular fan of legalization, I am strongly opposed to the police state abuses that have come about as a result of prohibition. Interestingly, the chief doesn’t really discuss that in the article.

I don’t necessarily view this as an all or none issue where the restriction policy on the one hand prevents a legalization or decriminalization argument on the other. But as time passes, it is becoming harder and harder to justify the actions being taken against citizens as a result of a generally failed “war” on drugs. I’ve seen the evils of the current failed policy and am willing to try something else including legalization.


38 posted on 05/18/2014 6:33:25 AM PDT by RKBA Democrat (Two parties, one agenda. It's the uniparty.)
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To: mgist

The war on drugs is a war against America, it’s people, and it’s freedom. Supporters of the war on drugs have brought is more death, destruction, misery and loss of freedom than any drug would. This police chief is just trying to protect his own power to abuse citizens and the constitution.


39 posted on 05/18/2014 7:37:41 AM PDT by zeugma (Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened - Dr. Seuss)
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To: Kackikat

‘’The War on Drugs’’ has been a total failure from it’s inception. It has made criminals rich, filled prison, trampled civil liberties,s and never once prohibited anyone from getting any drug desired. Drug dealers don’t ask for id.That’s why it’s available to kids. Legalization would put an end to the criminality of it as did the repeal of Prohibition put an end to Al Capone and the ‘’bootleggers’’.


40 posted on 05/18/2014 10:34:41 AM PDT by jmacusa
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To: zeugma

Amen!


41 posted on 05/18/2014 10:35:20 AM PDT by jmacusa
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To: mgist
"we don’t have prohibition of drugs, or even a war on drugs."

Someone coined the term 'anarcho-tyranny' to describe our current system of government. I think this is exactly what you're trying to describe. We have tyrannical drug laws that are flouted with the compliance of a corrupt government. Tyranny and lawlessness are combined in one ugly package.

42 posted on 05/18/2014 7:05:48 PM PDT by Jabba the Nutt (You can have a free country or government schools. Choose one.)
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To: mgist

Bump, save, bookmark and add to favorites.

Next time I meet up with some of the FR surrender monkeys; I’ll use this as a reference tool to counter their idiot liberal arguments for legalization.

Also worth noting that drug trafficking (legal or illegal) also adds to the illegal immigration problems.


43 posted on 05/19/2014 12:44:52 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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