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Separatists are demoralized. They can be finished off
Inforesist ^ | 5/9/2014 | Catherine Shapoval

Posted on 05/19/2014 8:02:47 PM PDT by WildSnail

Interview of Sergiy Shapoval, who spent three weeks in captivity of Donetsk separatists.

A journalist of Lutsk’s newspaper “Volin Post” Sergiy Shapoval spent more than three weeks in captivity of Donetsk separatists. He was captured on the 26th of April after he tried to subscribe as a volunteer in Donbas people’s militia. Shapoval was going to join separatists to write a report about people who support the protest.

According to Sergiy, there is a real spy-phobia among separatists: they interrogate all volunteers fearing that members of the “Right Sector” will join them. After they found Sergiy’s journalist ID, he was tortured by electric shock, and for greater impact they put a wet cloth on his shoulder.

During interrogation there were present journalist of Anna News. After the torture, as if nothing happened, they recorded a video with the beaten journalist. Sergiy was forced to say that he is OK and that he is in Slavyansk.

Later this video was removed for YouTube. In total there were recorded 4 videos, in which Shapoval spoke a prepared in advance by separatists and Russian journalists text. They were also publishing articles on Sergiy’s behalf, which were portraying separatists move in a positive light.

Sergiy Shapoval told in his interview to Hubs who and what are these separatists.

Are the ideas of the Donetsk People’s Republic supported in Donetsk?

Ordinary people in Donetsk do not support Donetsk People’s Republic. Do you remember on Maidan there were hundreds of volunteers, who cooked and brought food.

In Donetsk the militants make their own sandwiches, and there are few announcements a day from the stage that they need women to cook food. I saw and heard it all, because I was in a room, which windows overlook the main entrance to the Donetsk Regional State Administration.

They didn’t even had enough mattresses. Some militants slept on the floor; they could not organise their everyday life.

In the evening there are patrols in town, presumably to protect the rule of law and at the same time take phones from locals. In the morning they show off who stole better phone.

The parking in front of the Regional Administration is packed with stolen cars. How do I know this? They talk about it – stolen cars.

Are separatists really afraid of the “Right Sector”? Or they understand that the rumors about this organisation are exaggerated?

This is their universal horror story. Whoever is caught is declared to be a member of the Right Sector. Whatever happens – this is all the Right Sector. They are wound up by the Russian TV, which even calls the National Guard the Right Sector.

Who are the people on the rally in front of the administration?

When I came there in the end of April there were many romantics, idealists, adventurers. The audience is 25 to 33 years old.

After the fire in Odessa’s House of Trade Unions on the 2nd of May there was a surge of volunteers. The corridors were packed with people. Some miners squads came.

After the referendum all thinned out. Now there are only young people there. Even on Saturday and Sunday, when there should be many people, there are only a couple of dozens of them. Maximum a hundred, when there is a meeting.

Compare this to the self organisation of participants in EuroMaidan, where they were able to create some structures, organise everyday life, cooperate. Separatists are only capable of impulse, which thins down rather quickly.

This is a very glaring fact. Separatist, who say that they will go all the way to the Polish border, take off their Georgian ribbons when them move more than 100 metres away form the Regional Administration. I have seen it myself. When I asked one girl why it is the case she answered – Don’t you understand how many fascists are here?

Then why the Regional Administration is still not freed?

Because they have machine guns. There are a lot of arms there. I have seen Kalashnikovs, I have seen antitank grenade and objects, which looked like anti-tank mines

There was information in the media that almost in every office in the Administration there is a prisoner. Is it so?

Yes, I have heard cries, heard how they lugged someone though the corridors. One can stand near the building and see how they walk people with hands cocked and heads wrapped in cloth. And so every day. In the best case scenario these people are forced to wash toilets, in the worst – they are tortured.

I was tortured in the editorial office of the newspaper “Life”. They have such editorial office and there I was tortured. Then, after interrogations, Russian journalists came, put a flag on the wall and told me to speak into camera and say that I am in Slavyansk. And say the text that they wrote for me.

What do people in the seized Regional Administration say about Akhmetov?

Bad thing in general. They were saying that he fires people form the mines for taking part in rallies. They also hate the Party of Regions and Tsaryov.

What does the place of protests, the tents village looks like?

Tents village is a loud name for it. There are two or three tents.

There is a stage, but it is always empty. Not like it was on Maidan, where everyone wanted to come out and say something. There, they either play “Get up, enormous country” (old Soviet song – ed.) or a granny reads her poems or a granddad tells how much he should like to throttle Liashko. Or they show reports and news of the channel “Russia 24″

A song “A war with people is bad. Maidan zip it” is very popular. They also have their own “Heaven’s Guard” and slogans “Glory to Russia – Glory to Donbas!”.

The Regional Administration itself is smashed. Everything, which could be taken out was taken out.

How did you mange to break free?

I would not be able to break free by myself. I would get caught and would be killed, that’s why I simply sat and waited. Yesterday a man came and told me that I have to eat and wash and that I was to be swapped. Three hours later a man in civilian came for me. He led me to a car. We went to what looked like the Donetsk airport. There were many people there, I recognised Victor Medvedchuk and Nestor Shufrich. I came to Medvedchuk and asked – why do you need this, why did you free me? He answered that this is his position – to help people who are in need.

What is your forecast for the development of events?

Separatists can be easily finished off. If they are not given any surge, like the one in Odessa. They are demoralised, they do not know what to do. They do not see any outcome. Donetsk People’s Republic, for which they live half hungry and die exists only in the Donetsk Regional Administration.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: journalist; torture; ukraine
The translation is from Inforesist. The original article is at http://hubs.com.ua/authority/separatistyi-demoralizovanyi-ih-mozhno-dodavit.html
1 posted on 05/19/2014 8:02:47 PM PDT by WildSnail
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; cardinal4; ColdOne; ...

Thanks WildSnail.


2 posted on 05/19/2014 8:05:58 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: WildSnail

Thanks for the article!


3 posted on 05/19/2014 10:25:33 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: WildSnail

Thank you for this post. This article supports the information I have received


4 posted on 05/20/2014 1:19:55 AM PDT by UMCRevMom@aol.com
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To: UMCRevMom@aol.com

Same here. While the Russian disinformation program continues the reality is breaking through. Time is not on the Russian’s side.


5 posted on 05/20/2014 3:10:41 AM PDT by meatloaf (Impeach Obama. That's my New Year's resolution.)
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To: UMCRevMom@aol.com

Why do you refuse to post your opinion about Svoboda’s platform, which you yourself posted on the thread below? I’ve aksed you several times and in 2 days so far, you have refused to answer. It is in important request, since many of the platforms of Svoboda are downright fascist. Do you support Svoboda on their platform or not?

I am reposting this because I think it is very important everyone understands (a) Svoboda’s platform and (b) that you yourself posted it, and apparently support it.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3157427/posts?page=8#8

I found this info of Sveboda Party platform:

Svoboda’s platform is called “Our Own Authorities, Our Own Property, Our Own Dignity, on Our Own God-Given Land.” and includes the following points:

1. Ukraine—a presidential republi
c, head of state is the head of government
2. Lustration of state authority: publication of lists of all Soviet KGB agents that served or continue to serve in Ukraine, dismissal of such people as well as members of the former Communist Party of the Soviet Union from state leadership positions, replace them with graduates of the Ukrainian universities
3. Criminal prosecution for “Ukrainophobia”
4. Only those born in Ukraine can become Ukrainian citizens, with the exceptions for those who have lived in Ukraine for more than 15 years, know the Ukrainian language, culture and Ukrainian Constitution
5. Renunciation[nb 2] of the 2010 Kharkiv agreements
6. Impeachment of President Viktor Yanukovych
7. Ban on abortion, except in cases of medical necessity, or rape; and imprisonment from three to seven years for those who violate this ban
8. Criminalization of public promotion of abortions or calls for abortions (by introducing a fine for doing so)
9. The right to keep and bear arms
10. Occupied Khmelnytskyi Regional Council, January 2014
11. Cancelling taxes on Ukrainian language products — films, music and literature — and instead imposing taxes on non-Ukrainian language products. The proceeds obtained this way will be channeled into developing Ukrainian language products
12. Nationalization of major enterprises, greater state control of the banking system and a ban on privatization of land
13. Energy independence for Ukraine
14. The development of competitive industries, particularly food processing and aircraft engineering, shipbuilding, machine-tool construction, machine manufacturing, the military industrial complex and the aerospace industry
15. Ban on the import of the food products that are also produced inside Ukraine and import only exotic food that is not domestically grown
16. The restoration of the Soviet practice of indicating ethnic origin on passports and birth certificates
17. Proportional representation on executive bodies of ethnic Ukrainians, on the one hand, and national minorities, on the other
18. Ban on adoptions by non-Ukrainians of Ukrainian children
19. Preferential treatment for Ukrainian students in the allocation of dormitory places, and a series of similar changes to existing legal provisions
20. Ordained persons should have no right to be elected to state authorities or local self-government authorities
21. Abolition of Crimean autonomy
22. Abolition of value added tax
23. Farmlands are to be state-owned and given to farmers in hereditary use
24. The state is to implement a firm pro-family policy
25. Dismissal of employees of state structures who had been active in the Soviet apparatus before 1991
26. Decommunization of public space (monuments, names of streets and places)
27. Russia should apologize “for its communist crimes”
28. Ukraine is to leave the Commonwealth of Independent States “and other post-Soviet structures”
29. An explicit guarantee of accession to NATO within a set period of time
30. Ukraine should again re-acquire tactical nuclear weaponry


6 posted on 05/20/2014 7:36:00 AM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: little jeremiah

I see that their platform calls for a ban on abortion and the right to bear arms.

When should we expect to hear the conservative hero Colonel Putin support an abortion ban and the right to bear arms in Russia?

Which part of the Svoboda platform exactly do you have a problem with?


7 posted on 05/20/2014 10:15:53 AM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe
These ones especially. If you don't see the danger, you need to take off your blinders.

3. Criminal prosecution for “Ukrainophobia”

A useful umbrella term to imprison and maybe execute (as said should happen by members of Svoboda already) all political enemies.

12. Nationalization of major enterprises, greater state control of the banking system and a ban on privatization of land

History has shown what happens when business and land are no longer privately owned, but owned by the government. These freaks hate communism? They're proposing communism!!! Are they insane?

14. The development of competitive industries, particularly food processing and aircraft engineering, shipbuilding, machine-tool construction, machine manufacturing, the military industrial complex and the aerospace industry

Would these be among the ones nationalized, I would assume so.

16. The restoration of the Soviet practice of indicating ethnic origin on passports and birth certificates

What does "ethnic origin" mean, precisely? "Russian" and "Jewish"? I assume so it's easier to know who to send to the camps or killing fields and who to starve to death.

18. Ban on adoptions by non-Ukrainians of Ukrainian children 19. Preferential treatment for Ukrainian students in the allocation of dormitory places, and a series of similar changes to existing legal provisions

Does "non-Ukrainians" mean ethnic Russians living in Ukraine? I think it does, maybe Jews and other "creatures".

23. Farmlands are to be state-owned and given to farmers in hereditary use

Hmm, owned by the government but "given" to farmers? Sounds like giving other peoples' land to political favorites. Also sounds like setting up the country for starving the "non-Ukrainians" or those with "Ukraine-phobia". Nationalizing Ukrainian farmland worked out so well under Stalin.....These people are madmen. Those who control the food, decide who eats and who does not.

30. Ukraine should again re-acquire tactical nuclear weaponry

Just what the world needs. Nukes in the hands of the Svoboda and the Pravi Sektor.

8 posted on 05/20/2014 12:29:55 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

The passports with “ethnic origin” or being deemed having “Ukrainophobia” will no doubt take away the right to bear arms.

They’re setting up their own little Stalinist type hell. If they implement these.


9 posted on 05/20/2014 12:31:05 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: little jeremiah
It sounds to me like they are only emulating the conservative Putin. After all Putin has nationalized major enterprises and controls Russian banking almost completely. When the richest man in Russia wanted to sell his oil company to the west, Putin exiled him to Siberia and nationalized the company.

Putin's adoring fans often say how much he loves his country. We certainly hear Putin label anyone who disagrees with him as a “Russophobe.” Could it be that Svoboda are pursuing similar policies to Putin because they also love their country too? Could it be they just don't want gays adopting Ukrainian children? Putin fans even say they like him and his policies so much, they would like him to be President of the USA. If Putin's ideas are good enough for the USA, then why not Ukraine?

Putin threatens to murder millions with nuclear missile strikes on the USA, why should Ukraine not have the same ability? Clearly they made a mistake when they gave up their nukes. Shouldn't they be more like Putin and threaten their neighbors with nuclear missile attacks like Putin does? Shouldn't everyone try to be as much like Putin as they can?

10 posted on 05/20/2014 1:04:43 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

I don’t know why you think I love Putin.

I do not.

I’m talking about Svoboda, the neo Nazis who idolice Bandera and Hitler.

Thanks for playing and ignoring the nastiness of Svoboda and its Pravi Sektor. It’s possile, believe it or not, to not like EITHER side. And point out honestly what’s going on in Ukraine without taking Putin’s side. I take no one’s side, but I do object to MY government siding with Neo Nazis for ulterior motives, including monetary. Note that Biden’s son just got a lucrative position in a big Ukraine gas company, the largest in the country.

They got rid of one set of criminal oligarchs for another set of criminal oligarchs. This time puppets of the 0bastard administration. An improvement over the old oligarchs? Count the dead and let’s see. But it’s not over yet.


11 posted on 05/20/2014 3:00:00 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
Putin threatens to murder millions with nuclear missile strikes on the USA, why should Ukraine not have the same ability?

Yeah, and why shouldn't Syria, Iran, Indonesia, Somalia and Sudan have nukes, while we're at it? Chavez? Let all dictators, fascists, communists and Moslems have nukes! We have them, Russia has them, let's let every two bit dictator madman have them! It's only fair! Party time!

12 posted on 05/20/2014 3:02:45 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: little jeremiah
Right sector are not nazis, they are patriots. Yes I support them proudly. Right sector and svoboda are two separate things. You don't seem to be aware of the difference between them, and you accept Russian lies uncritically. I don't. I don't believe one word the dirty Russian scum have to say. American patriots should help Ukrainian patriots annihilate the Russian traitors who promote racist ethnic separatism in Ukraine. Ukraine is not a nazi country, Russia is, and it must be destroyed.
13 posted on 05/20/2014 3:16:31 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: little jeremiah

Russia is helping Iran get nukes. The USA should help our allies who are threatened by Russia and Iran get nukes too.


14 posted on 05/20/2014 3:18:33 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: little jeremiah; Tailgunner Joe
Svoboda platform directly from the source
15 posted on 05/20/2014 3:26:21 PM PDT by FreeReign
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Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

To: Tailgunner Joe

They aren’t Nazis?

I’m sorry, you’ve really gone off the deep end.


17 posted on 05/20/2014 6:34:04 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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Comment #18 Removed by Moderator

To: little jeremiah; Tailgunner Joe
LJ, your analysis and research skills and logical thinking serve you well on the eligibility threads. Use them on these topics, as well. Many of your ideas are coming directly from Russian state-run media.

First of all, you are entirely too obsessed with the supposed Nazis running Ukraine. It seems like you think that everything Ukraine does is bad, because it's all controlled by Nazis. Instead, you need to consider what the government and the people are doing without looking at what political party they belong to, but whether or not their actions are supportive of the country and it's people.

Have you even read through the Svoboda platform linked in #15? I'd like to see a Republican platform as conservative (in our sense) as most of that document. If I'm counting correctly, there are 211 items in the platform. You've picked out seven you object to. It that's all you can find, you need to reconsider your position. But let me address the seven you highlighted:

3. Criminal prosecution for “Ukrainophobia”

A useful umbrella term to imprison and maybe execute (as said should happen by members of Svoboda already) all political enemies.

I'm not sure what the purpose of this item is, but leaping to the conclusion that it's for imprisonment and execution is highly questionable. But I'll let you have that one.

12. Nationalization of major enterprises, greater state control of the banking system and a ban on privatization of land

History has shown what happens when business and land are no longer privately owned, but owned by the government. These freaks hate communism? They're proposing communism!!! Are they insane?

If you actually read the platform, you would notice that this is in the section for getting rid of corruption and control by the oligarchs. And it's not a complete ban on private property. They want to require 30% government control of national finances. i.e. establish a national bank. There is no restriction on private bank ownership. There is also no restriction on property ownership. In fact, other items talk about requiring that condominium owners be allowed to own a proportional share of the land and building, not just their apartment. There are low cost, no interest, and free housing proposals. It sounds to me like they're trying to increase private ownership.

14. The development of competitive industries, particularly food processing and aircraft engineering, shipbuilding, machine-tool construction, machine manufacturing, the military industrial complex and the aerospace industry

Would these be among the ones nationalized, I would assume so.

Here, they are trying to encourage local production and improve the national economy. The only things nationalized are the enterprises (not entire industries) that make the oligarchs rich and violate laws. I didn't see anything at all in the platform that says the state needs to own and control these things. They even propose low or no-interest loans to small and medium business to help them compete and grow.

16. The restoration of the Soviet practice of indicating ethnic origin on passports and birth certificates

What does "ethnic origin" mean, precisely? "Russian" and "Jewish"? I assume so it's easier to know who to send to the camps or killing fields and who to starve to death.

I'll have to double-check with my wife, but I believe this is pretty much a non-issue for the vast majority of Ukrainians. It's kind of a "it's always been done this way" until fairly recently. But I'll leave the question open for now.

18. Ban on adoptions by non-Ukrainians of Ukrainian children 19. Preferential treatment for Ukrainian students in the allocation of dormitory places, and a series of similar changes to existing legal provisions

Does "non-Ukrainians" mean ethnic Russians living in Ukraine? I think it does, maybe Jews and other "creatures".

If you would actually read the document, you wouldn't jump to such asinine conclusions. Ukraine's population desperately needs to grow. They're trying to keep Ukrainian kids in their home country. They also have quite a few proposals to encourage Ukrainians to stay in Ukraine, and to encourage those who moved to other countries to return. And they're giving preferential treatment to Ukrainian citizens in their universities. Is there something wrong with that? Try taking away in-state tuition preferences in the U.S. and you'll have a revolution on your hands.

Speaking of population building, their platform calls for banning almost all abortions. You're for that, aren't you?

23. Farmlands are to be state-owned and given to farmers in hereditary use

Hmm, owned by the government but "given" to farmers? Sounds like giving other peoples' land to political favorites. Also sounds like setting up the country for starving the "non-Ukrainians" or those with "Ukraine-phobia". Nationalizing Ukrainian farmland worked out so well under Stalin.....These people are madmen. Those who control the food, decide who eats and who does not.

Again, please read the document. It doesn't say what you claim at all. Basically, they're saying that land ownership needs to be allowed to pass to your children. And that land that is being abused (by oligarchs, criminals, etc.) or not being used for it's intended purpose can be confiscated by the government. It would then be either public land, or sold to someone who would take care of it properly. Sounds like "land management" to me, and not as intrusive as BLM or EPA.

30. Ukraine should again re-acquire tactical nuclear weaponry

Just what the world needs. Nukes in the hands of the Svoboda and the Pravi Sektor.

Again, you're confusing an alleged Nazi conspiracy with legitimate national security goals. Ukraine gave up their nukes in exchange for agreements that have been broken by everybody except them. They had nukes and gave them up! Considering their neighborhood, I don't blame them.

Now I know a party platform doesn't guarantee anything (see the Republican platform vs how many Republican representatives actually vote) but it is a pretty good indication of how the party actually wants things to be.

Yes, there are some things I don't agree with in Svoboda and Pravi Sektor, and other groups. But if you stop looking at them with nothing but hate, you will find a lot of good things there.

19 posted on 05/20/2014 7:15:34 PM PDT by WildSnail (The US government now has more control over the people than the old Soviet Union ever dreamed of)
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To: little jeremiah

Basically what they are proposing is no different than what Lukashenko has in Belarus.


20 posted on 05/20/2014 7:19:38 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: WildSnail

There are some good things there.

And some really bad things.

There is no “good” side in this. And that is why the US should butt out. And any foreign policy decided upon by this administration is guaranteed to be the very worst thing for America, at the very least.


21 posted on 05/20/2014 7:22:18 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: dfwgator

See my snips in comment 18.


22 posted on 05/20/2014 7:23:40 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: little jeremiah

LJ, GlobalResearch is a terrible source. It’s anti American, pro OWS, pro Global Warming...etc. I wouldn’t use them to critique Svoboda...and there are indeed some problems with their criticisms of Svoboda.


23 posted on 05/20/2014 7:51:33 PM PDT by FreeReign
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To: FreeReign

I’d like to know the specifics of the problems. I realize that GR has some real crap on it. So does every single other news source. That is the problem.


24 posted on 05/21/2014 12:33:07 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: FreeReign

Do you think Paul Craig Roberts is a notorious propagandist too? I’m curious what news outlet or journalists you deem more accurate. NYT?

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/03/29/western-looting-ukraine-begun-paul-craig-roberts/

Western Looting Of Ukraine Has Begun

Of course, his articles may appear on GR sometimes, so maybe that taints him?


25 posted on 05/21/2014 1:02:19 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: little jeremiah
....”It’s possible, believe it or not, to not like EITHER side. And point out honestly what’s going on in Ukraine without taking Putin’s side”....

That is true, however to those who are insistent on taking a side they cannot be open to finding the truth. Instead will defend their mindset and oppose those who do not agree.

One thing we know...when debate is silenced truth will never be known.

26 posted on 05/21/2014 1:31:05 PM PDT by caww
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To: little jeremiah
I think it's absurd for the journalist to ‘frequently’ compare Maidan to the Anti-Kiev citizens who desire Self-Rule. Maiden was a violent coup of Ukraine's Nation Government. What is happening in Eastern Ukraine is a resistance to the unelected officials, who they see as fascists, supported by the US Gov. and a threat to the very Unity Maiden claimed.

Maidan was not in the middle of a war between outside factions as is happening in Eastern Ukraine.......nor have they had the financial backing of billions of dollars over a long period of time, or that of “organizers” to establish their intentions as Maidan had.

This has been a ground roots uprising of the people, and identified as that from the beginning until the Private Sector and their hired thugs began opposing and infiltrating their protests, just as they did with Maidan. Even the Atlantic Council and the international Leaders identify that Private Sector and their cohorts are a serious problem .....and there has been an effort in the EU now to call Private Sector a terrorist group..because they are.

However, you cannot even remotely convince those here, who somehow think Svodboda and Private Sector have reformed their ways, yet at the same time they refuse Russia that same reformation..... Dogs don't change their spots....and in Ukraine we are seeing this remains so.

Furthermore...any Journalist who steps into Ukraine knows well these are a violent and easily suspicious people...and that BTW with good cause. This guy knew the risk and also the brutality that might occur by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. He assumed that risk all on his own.

27 posted on 05/21/2014 1:55:59 PM PDT by caww
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To: FreeReign; little jeremiah
All sources today are biased.....that's pretty apparent in our own country as the MSM appears to be just as anti-American in their supporting the Obama administration. I think it's better to see all sources regardless if we agree with them or not....it does give us then a broad understanding in why people think as they do and their perspective...and a better idea of what is happening worldwide as the MSM here is very lax in reporting world affairs.

Further....In Ukraine you have a suppressed people, and often violent, who have lived under one strong arm or another 'for generations'.......robbed and stolen from by their ruling government officials with no regard to the peoples affairs..... We ourselves have had only a taste of that suppression through the Obama Administration....and that for a very short time. So how Ukrainians see this crisis is beyond most understanding why they fight as they do now..and that all sides of the equation...and there are many in "divided" Ukraine.

28 posted on 05/21/2014 2:06:51 PM PDT by caww
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To: Tailgunner Joe
According to my information Russia has infiltrated Right Sector and Svoboda as well as many right wing groups in Europe.
29 posted on 05/21/2014 2:25:25 PM PDT by AdmSmith (GCTGATATGTCTATGATTACTCAT)
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To: AdmSmith

I’d appreciate what your sources are.

That would be interesting if Russians are killing ethnic Russians in Urkaine, burning them alive etc.


30 posted on 05/21/2014 2:56:48 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: caww

Yes, condemning the source but not proving the facts in the “bad” source... somehow not convincing enough for me.


31 posted on 05/21/2014 9:06:40 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: little jeremiah
some info in the public domain:

http://windowoneurasia2.blogspot.se/2014/05/window-on-eurasia-right-wing-parties.html

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/117838/putins-far-right-european-admirers-run-european-parliament-may

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/21/world/europe/europes-far-right-looks-to-russia-as-a-guiding-force.html

Jobbik MEP accused of working for Russia
http://euobserver.com/eu-elections/124156

32 posted on 05/22/2014 2:03:23 PM PDT by AdmSmith (GCTGATATGTCTATGATTACTCAT)
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To: AdmSmith; UMCRevMom@aol.com

Many thanks for the links!

UMCRevMom, Ping to this post


33 posted on 05/22/2014 6:48:44 PM PDT by WildHighlander57 ((WildHighlander57, returning after lurking since 2000)
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To: WildHighlander57

Thank you Adm Smith & Wildhighlander 57


34 posted on 05/23/2014 3:55:35 AM PDT by UMCRevMom@aol.com
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