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U.S. And NATO Say No Russian Troop Withdrawal
RFE/RL Radio Free Europe / Radio Liberty ^ | Tuesday, May 20, 2014 | RFE/RL Radio Free Europe / Radio Liberty

Posted on 05/20/2014 12:57:00 AM PDT by WhiskeyX

The United States and NATO say they've seen no sign Russian troops have moved away from the border with Ukraine, after Russian President Vladimir Putin said he had ordered such a move.

(Excerpt) Read more at rferl.org ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Russia
KEYWORDS: nato; russia; ukraine; us

1 posted on 05/20/2014 12:57:00 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: WhiskeyX

No kidding? So you mean the second time in a row he’s “ordered troops away from the border” didn’t happen? Will maybe next week he’ll order them away from the border again?


2 posted on 05/20/2014 12:59:48 AM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: WhiskeyX

I didn’t see that coming. /s


3 posted on 05/20/2014 1:09:20 AM PDT by jospehm20
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Must be troops that defected and are no longer following orders /sarc I wonder why the travelers posting to FR haven’t mentioned that.


4 posted on 05/20/2014 2:55:52 AM PDT by meatloaf (Impeach Obama. That's my New Year's resolution.)
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To: WhiskeyX

What do you expect. He waves a magic wand an they are magically teleported to their home bases.


5 posted on 05/20/2014 2:59:10 AM PDT by McGruff (What if I told you your leaders were lying to you?)
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To: WhiskeyX

U.S. And NATO Say No Russian Troop Withdrawal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Those withdrawing are NOT Russian?/s


6 posted on 05/20/2014 3:26:51 AM PDT by Candor7 (Obama fascism article:(http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/barack_obama_the_quintessentia_1.html))
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To: WhiskeyX
Should they be court martialed for disobedience?
7 posted on 05/20/2014 4:41:56 AM PDT by The_Victor (If all I want is a warm feeling, I should just wet my pants.)
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To: WhiskeyX

I expect the Russian invasion on or about May 28.

I hope I’m wrong.


8 posted on 05/20/2014 4:51:48 AM PDT by Kozak ("It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal" Henry Kissinger)
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To: WhiskeyX

By now Russia’s lies are no longer told as they would expect people to believe it. When they say 2+2=5 and have their sycophants repeat it, then it is a show of force and not advocacy for new mathematics.


9 posted on 05/20/2014 5:02:32 AM PDT by Krosan
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To: WhiskeyX

I’m telling your father!


10 posted on 05/20/2014 5:08:33 AM PDT by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: WhiskeyX

Putin found out about this the way the rest of us did, by watching it on television. He’s really upset about it and wonders why no one told him.


11 posted on 05/20/2014 6:07:41 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: meatloaf
Why should Putin move any troops away from the Russian/Ukraine border...it's his border and there are bases near.

Furthermore, I can't see Putin giving a rip about what the US/Kiev Government wants him to do with his troops anymore than they give a rip Putin's called them to stop shelling and killing their own people in Ukraine.

As the Us/Nato/EU focus on Ukraines crisis Putin continues consolidating his alliances with China, India and other Bric countries......while Obama plays catch with little leagues on his way to fund-raising events.

12 posted on 05/20/2014 9:01:08 AM PDT by caww
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To: meatloaf
Why should Putin move any troops away from the Russian/Ukraine border...it's his border and there are bases near.

Furthermore, I can't see Putin giving a rip about what the US/Kiev Government wants him to do with his troops anymore than they give a rip Putin's called them to stop shelling and killing their own people in Ukraine.

As the Us/Nato/EU focus on Ukraines crisis Putin continues consolidating his alliances with China, India and other Bric countries......while Obama plays catch with little leagues on his way to fund-raising events.

13 posted on 05/20/2014 9:01:09 AM PDT by caww
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To: caww

That’s not the point. Putin doesn’t have to move the troops away from the border. The question remains why he would lie about moving them when their presence and lack of movement can easily be verified?

That’s the strength of Russian disinformation. As long as enough people are fooled, it’s served its purpose.


14 posted on 05/20/2014 9:12:51 AM PDT by meatloaf (Impeach Obama. That's my New Year's resolution.)
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To: Kozak

What is your reasoning?


15 posted on 05/20/2014 10:01:22 AM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: meatloaf

....”The question remains why he would lie about moving them when their presence and lack of movement can easily be verified?”......

No...there is no question... it doesn’t matter what Putin says regarding the troops...he has a right to move them when and how he wants on his border, especially with a War-Zone in Eastern Ukraine, his border state. Further it was ‘understood’ whatever mass withdrawal, if any, would be within 24 hours minimum.

Most recognize the communication ‘being reported’ between US and Russia isn’t exactly trustworthy at this time, as the deals etc. are surely going on behind the scenes.


16 posted on 05/20/2014 10:04:41 AM PDT by caww
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To: meatloaf

....”The question remains why he would lie about moving them when their presence and lack of movement can easily be verified?”......

No...there is no question... it doesn’t matter what Putin says regarding the troops...he has a right to move them when and how he wants on his border, especially with a War-Zone in Eastern Ukraine, his border state. Further it was ‘understood’ whatever mass withdrawal, if any, would be within 24 hours minimum.

Most recognize the communication ‘being reported’ between US and Russia isn’t exactly trustworthy at this time, as the deals etc. are surely going on behind the scenes.


17 posted on 05/20/2014 10:04:41 AM PDT by caww
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To: caww

The war-zone is due to Putin’s manipulations of the criminal element in those cities. That’s why Rinat Akhmetov has stepped in.


18 posted on 05/20/2014 10:10:57 AM PDT by meatloaf (Impeach Obama. That's my New Year's resolution.)
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To: meatloaf
.....”The war-zone is due to Putin’s manipulations of the criminal element in those cities”.....

Well, would you expect him to go in with full troops to protect the Industrial and technology prime area of Ukraine? Of course not, anymore than the US would reveal the criminal element they are using....let alone the Kiev Government.

We would be protecting this Industrial area as well were it on our border and we had major deals pending, and in the future, as Russia does with Ukraine there.

Furthermore....without this area under Kiev Gov. control they have nothing else to offer the EU which would generate funds and employ swaths of people to pay back the Imf deals in any timely fashion. It's not wise not to mention the Kiev Army's mission in Eastern Ukraine....rather than simply the criminal elements.

As to "Akhmetov" billionaire stepping up....well he does own and operates a vast industrial empire in eastern Donbas. He certainly doesn't want to see his industry shelled by a conflict which moves across his area of concern. Further....Russia's Defense Ministry said its forces in the border regions of Bryansk, Belgorod, and Rostov regions were preparing to leave following a May 19 order from Russian President Vladimir Putin.........that it would take time for troops to dismantle their camps and load equipment on trucks for a march to railway stations. Most interesting is China and Putin have now stated the Ukraine crisis is a "domestic problem".

19 posted on 05/20/2014 10:39:04 AM PDT by caww
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To: caww

Did you forget that Putin was at one point making pronouncements about protecting ethnic Russians in Ukraine followed by conveniently massing troops on the borders and leaving them long after maneuvers had ended?

There were no disturbances in those regions until the Russian provocateurs showed up.


20 posted on 05/20/2014 10:43:47 AM PDT by meatloaf (Impeach Obama. That's my New Year's resolution.)
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To: meatloaf
What makes you think he lied. Just because Nato says so?
21 posted on 05/20/2014 10:52:18 AM PDT by duckln
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To: duckln

Putin has claimed to have moved the troops at two different times. They obviously weren’t moved out the first time. There are obvious blatant lies put out to manipulate public opinion and reaction.

the most obvious was claiming the crew of the Ukrainian flagship had defected only to have it dock in Odessa once it returned from the Med.


22 posted on 05/20/2014 11:01:39 AM PDT by meatloaf (Impeach Obama. That's my New Year's resolution.)
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To: meatloaf
Here's Akhmetov's stadium turnout...few showed though he had spoken that there would be a massive show of people why held in the stadium. Looks like Donbas people have again shown they will not be led around like sheep.


23 posted on 05/20/2014 11:04:34 AM PDT by caww
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To: meatloaf
Here's Akhmetov's stadium turnout...few showed though he had spoken that there would be a massive show of people why held in the stadium. Looks like Donbas people have again shown they will not be led around like sheep.


24 posted on 05/20/2014 11:04:34 AM PDT by caww
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To: caww
Here's how his rally ended apparently...


25 posted on 05/20/2014 11:07:10 AM PDT by caww
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To: meatloaf

All hearsay.


26 posted on 05/20/2014 11:13:13 AM PDT by duckln
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To: meatloaf
Well Putin has sent the militia's and hired guys to do just that when Kiev Gov. determined to fight against Donestk and other areas by killing their own people.

Forced submission to a people's who do not want a fascist gov. (from their perspective) never works...it simply drives them to protect what they desire...freedom from the suppression they can see coming from Keiv Gov. under the IMF and EU restrictions....while the same old Oligarch's continue to scam off the top.

27 posted on 05/20/2014 12:19:19 PM PDT by caww
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Next new moon.
Now is the best time for a military campaign to start. Spring rains are done, roads are dry, summer approaches.


28 posted on 05/20/2014 12:53:39 PM PDT by Kozak ("It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal" Henry Kissinger)
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To: caww

That’s an embarrassing turnout.


29 posted on 05/20/2014 2:43:13 PM PDT by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: Kozak

Hmmm, very wise, dry roads to move the tanks in, you are most likely correct, unfortunately.


30 posted on 05/20/2014 3:57:43 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: caww

That’s stupid, every poll and every individual escaping from that place tell us that the people of Donetsk do not support the separatists. You’re calling a gaggle of criminal thugs, communists, and some of the very poor, freedom fighters.


31 posted on 05/20/2014 3:59:49 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Krosan

“By now Russia’s lies are no longer told as they would expect people to believe it. When they say 2+2=5 and have their sycophants repeat it, then it is a show of force and not advocacy for new mathematics.”

I still don’t understand why we care whether they are telling the truth or not this time.

Its not like there are Russian troops occupying America, or anyone with-whom we have mutual treaty obligations to help liberate or defend.


32 posted on 05/20/2014 4:55:29 PM PDT by Monorprise
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

“That’s stupid, every poll and every individual escaping from that place tell us that the people of Donetsk do not support the separatists. You’re calling a gaggle of criminal thugs, communists, and some of the very poor, freedom fighters.”

That maybe true, although I hardly expect the individuals escaping from Crimia are the sort in favor of Russian annexation, as their very act of leaving seems to speak otherwise.

Still it makes very little difference. We are not going to War with Russia, and Russia is very unlikely to Leave it’s new territory.

Maybe in a handful of years you can persuade Russia to hold something amounting to a election secession there. But your not going to do that with the word or threats of Obama, or even theses united States seeing as the union did in West Virginia 150 years ago exactly what Russia is now doing crimia.

Is Obama going to disclaim the legitimacy of West Virginia’s independent Statehood or will he continue to follow Lincoln’s Might makes right Approach and respect Crimean independence and thus subsequent Russian annexation.

Either way we have a bit of a creditably problem in addition to a constancy and morality problem but such as been the case in this falling federation for many years now.


33 posted on 05/20/2014 5:11:32 PM PDT by Monorprise
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To: WhiskeyX

Maybe Eric Holder can press charges against Russian generals for spying on the US, that ought to get them to back off from Ukraine...


34 posted on 05/20/2014 7:10:02 PM PDT by Thunder90 (All posts soley represent my own opinion.)
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To: caww
Most interesting is China and Putin have now stated the Ukraine crisis is a "domestic problem".

Domestic problem is in Ukraine, or Domestic Problem is in the USSR? If it is the latter, then the Russians (and Belorussians and Kazakhs) will be invading soon.... Russia still considers the former USSR 'domestic'.

35 posted on 05/20/2014 7:12:57 PM PDT by Thunder90 (All posts soley represent my own opinion.)
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To: Thunder90

China and Putin are saying UKRAINE is a Domestic problem for Ukrianians. Meaning Ukrainians have to deal with the events happening in their country.

As suspected from the beginning......when EU/US and Russia got what they wanted from Ukraine....Ukrainians would be left holding their own bag.

I doubt very much anything will change in Ukraine for a very long time...they are stuck with the EU/US running their show and the IMF austerity to make sure everyone who “helped” Ukraine gets their share FIRST.

Add in the same old Oligarchs in Office....well...very little will change for the Ukrainian people.

Course the “She devil” Yulia says if she isn’t elected she will rise another maidan....(some things never change).


36 posted on 05/20/2014 10:58:40 PM PDT by caww
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
I'm sure glad that most people take polls with a grain of salt...especially any in Ukraine.....

Do consider...."Separatist" George Washington and cohorts planning armed militia operations....I wouldn't underestimate those in Eastern Ukraine fighting for their Independence.


37 posted on 05/20/2014 11:07:52 PM PDT by caww
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To: mac_truck
Yes it was......and now they've started the process to “Nationalize” his companies...in part because he attempted to raise the people against their drive for Independance....but also because he hasn't been paying his tax's. LOL....

The guy should have stayed out of it....the workers were really miffed because he told them if they didn't go along with his strike and stadium event they wouldn't have a job. They all rebelled and stayed home.....

38 posted on 05/20/2014 11:13:52 PM PDT by caww
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To: Thunder90

“Maybe Eric Holder can press charges against Russian generals for spying on the US, that ought to get them to back off from Ukraine...”

The Ukraine has filed a lawsuit against the Russian commander of the Russian Black Sea Fleet with the International Court of Justice.


39 posted on 05/20/2014 11:22:53 PM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: caww
I'm sure glad that most people take polls with a grain of salt...especially any in Ukraine.....

First that's deceptive. It is not just "Ukrainian" polls, but all measures of public support say the same thing, and have been saying the same thing for years now. It is not new. Furthermore, please show me the track record of these polls and show me where you find evidence of a "Zionist-EU-Soros-Obama" conspiracy to distort public perception. The same groups that have polled in Ukraine accurately predicted Bush's wins, Yanukovych, and many other successes, which you would have us believe they opposed, unless Bush was in on the Jewish conspiracy? Do consider...."Separatist" George Washington and cohorts planning armed militia operations....I wouldn't underestimate those in Eastern Ukraine fighting for their Independence.

You're comparing George Washington to communists and murderers. You're revealing your Red sympathies a little too much. Tone it back down.


40 posted on 05/20/2014 11:23:49 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: caww

“Do consider....”Separatist” George Washington and cohorts planning armed militia operations....I wouldn’t underestimate those in Eastern Ukraine fighting for their Independence.”

Thank you for so ably demonstrating your bottomless ignorance of American history and general stupidity on the subject. George Washington was already for many years a commissioned officer of the Royal Colony of Virginia with the rank of Colonel at the beginning of the Revolutionary War. His commission was granted by the same colonial government, the Virginia House of Burgesses which was lawfully chartered by the contemporary and prior English sovereigns, and the Virginia militia was organized under the authority of the Virginia government chartered and authorized by the King.

The revolutionary conflict began as an effort to defend the already existing rights under the Magna Carta and other laws of England which were being usurped unlawfully by the King, the king’s Ministers, and the Parliament. When the King and the Parliament refused to acknowledge those Englishmens’ rights in the American Colonies, the defenders of those rights were left with a choice between surrender to the usurpation of their rights, their properties, and the forfeiture of their very lives or seek to prevail independent of the usurpers.

The situation in the Ukraine with the pro-Russian separatists is the opposite situation from what George Washington and the American Revolutionaries were forced to confront. Rather than seeking to enforce their rights as Ukrainians, the separatists are a mix of foreigners from Russia and elsewhere who are using armed force and terrorism to subjugate the dissenting majority of the local population to the totalitarian governance of the foreign nation of Russia. Instead of using armed force to oppose the usurpation of their just rights as Ukrainians, the separatists are collaborating with foreign invaders to overthrow and usurp the rights of the Ukrainian citizens and subject them to the usurpation of their Ukrainian rights by the foreign government of Russia. Whereas the American colonial governments were lawfully chartered by England’s sovereigns, the separatist governments in the Ukraine were not lawfully chartered or organized by anyone, are not recognized by the international community, and have no lawful authority to grant military commissions or enlist combatants. In other words, your comparison of the Ukrainian separatists to George Washington and the American armed forces of the Revolutionary War are about as far opposed to each other in principle and practice as you can get.


41 posted on 05/21/2014 1:47:04 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

The red flags are photo shopped....as is much of your statist rhetoric.


42 posted on 05/21/2014 5:45:05 AM PDT by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: mac_truck

You’re free to provide evidence of the photoshopping!


43 posted on 05/21/2014 9:01:49 AM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: WhiskeyX
.....”Thank you for so ably demonstrating your bottomless ignorance”.....

Well with that introduction to your response there was no purpose or reason to continue reading further into your post...nor giving it any consideration whatsoever let alone a response beyond this.

44 posted on 05/21/2014 11:42:15 AM PDT by caww
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To: WhiskeyX
.....”Thank you for so ably demonstrating your bottomless ignorance”.....

Well with that introduction to your response there was no purpose or reason to continue reading further into your post...nor giving it any consideration whatsoever let alone a response beyond this.

45 posted on 05/21/2014 11:42:15 AM PDT by caww
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To: caww

“Well with that introduction to your response there was no purpose or reason to continue reading further into your post...nor giving it any consideration whatsoever let alone a response beyond this.”

No surprise there, given how your willful ignorance is as your willful ignorance does.


46 posted on 05/21/2014 1:41:55 PM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: WhiskeyX

47 posted on 05/21/2014 2:26:40 PM PDT by caww
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