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What STEM Shortage? The sector isnít seeing wage growth and has more graduates than jobs.
National Review ^ | 05/20/2014 | Steven Camarota

Posted on 05/20/2014 6:40:33 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

The idea that we need to allow in more workers with science, technology, engineering, and math (“STEM”) background is an article of faith among American business and political elite.

But in a new report, my Center for Immigration Studies colleague Karen Zeigler and I analyze the latest government data and find what other researchers have found: The country has well more than twice as many workers with STEM degrees as there are STEM jobs. Also consistent with other research, we find only modest levels of wage growth for such workers for more than a decade. Both employment and wage data indicate that such workers are not in short supply.

Reports by the Economic Policy Institute (EPI), the RAND Corporation, the Urban Institute, and the National Research Council have all found no evidence that STEM workers are in short supply. After looking at evidence from the EPI study, PBS entitled its story on the report “The Bogus High-Tech Worker Shortage: How Guest Workers Lower U.S. Wages.” This is PBS, mind you, which is as likely to report skeptically on immigration as it is to report skeptically on taxpayer subsidies for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

(Excerpt) Read more at nationalreview.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: jobs; stem; technology
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1 posted on 05/20/2014 6:40:33 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

And Obama is throwing $$$ at STEM programs. Our high school just got a couple hundred thousand dollar interest free loans to implement STEM.


2 posted on 05/20/2014 6:42:28 AM PDT by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: SeekAndFind

This article is BS .

Top flight technical people are always in short supply


3 posted on 05/20/2014 6:46:05 AM PDT by rdcbn
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To: SeekAndFind

What percentage of these degree holders actually have skills employers are looking for?


4 posted on 05/20/2014 6:46:49 AM PDT by proxy_user
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To: SeekAndFind

Anecdotal evidence, mind you, but I’m currently working about two dozen open requisitions for Mechanical and Electrical Engineers. Supply vs. demand ratio in our area is about 3:1...with three open positions for every one available engineer. It’s a candidate’s market, from where I sit. Probably 90% of the responses I get to advertisements for these positions are from foreign nationals looking for sponsorship.

There IS a candidate shortage, at least in my area of the country (Central KY).


5 posted on 05/20/2014 6:47:25 AM PDT by ItsOurTimeNow ("Scheming demons dressed in kingly guise, beating down the multitudes and scoffing at the wise.")
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To: SeekAndFind

I think American’s, real Americans, should develop shadow economies and shadow societies. Pay taxes and obey all the regulations, or rebel against them, that’s not the point, but only buy from other conservatives and only give charity to overtly conservative causes. Very rich conservatives should give grants to conservative scholars for “advanced conservative studies”. Real conservative studies, not just listening to an egomaniac talk about himself on the radio. Only hire conservatives and only work for conservatives. But how will we educate people? We can’t do any worse at educating people than we have.

I think we’re too entangled with the world.


6 posted on 05/20/2014 6:49:38 AM PDT by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: goodwithagun

Imagine if the tech companies set up specific training classes/courses catered to their needs in high schools and/or unemployment training centers around the country for Americans instead of spending money sponsoring foreigners.


7 posted on 05/20/2014 6:50:30 AM PDT by Grumpybutt (Look to November 2014)
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To: rdcbn
"Top flight technical people are always in short supply"

Your response is BS and laughable, although based on the logic, you sound like a socialist, so I shouldn't be surprised.
8 posted on 05/20/2014 6:52:31 AM PDT by indthkr
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To: SeekAndFind

First, having a tech degree and knowing what you’re doing may well be two different things. Freelancer.com is a legit site that offers consulting jobs to programmers, etc. However, I am amazed how many “projects” are students who want someone else to do their homework for them, or take online tests for them.

Second, Obozo has no clue what it would take to turn this sluggish economy around, nor do his Socialist cronies. The fastest-growing economy in the world got there by lowering taxes on corporations to the lowest rates on the planet, reducing personal income taxes to 15%, and reducing the gov’ts share of GNP from almost 37% to less that 25% in less than a decade. The country: Chile.

Hey, Stupid! Wake up!


9 posted on 05/20/2014 6:53:50 AM PDT by econjack (I'm not bossy...I just know what you should be doing.)
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To: indthkr
Your response is BS and laughable, although based on the logic, you sound like a socialist, so I shouldn't be surprised.

Tell us why you feel this way.

10 posted on 05/20/2014 6:55:13 AM PDT by econjack (I'm not bossy...I just know what you should be doing.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Hmm, I wonder what an “H1B Visa” is?


11 posted on 05/20/2014 6:57:31 AM PDT by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: rdcbn

Sure, top flight.

Top flight candidates are not what tech companies are using H-1 visas for, but for the jobs that competent American workers could do.


12 posted on 05/20/2014 6:58:05 AM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
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To: SeekAndFind

I dunno, I always looked at it this way. Someone with a STEM background can do anything with it. They can be, for example, work in their technical area of expertise. But, and this is the big but, they can also expand and work in business, technical sales, law, etc. You just can’t go wrong with a STEM background.


13 posted on 05/20/2014 7:01:10 AM PDT by FlipWilson
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To: Grumpybutt

That’s what I’m talking about in my last post. Conservatives, and Christians, should run their business according to their ideology, educate their kids based on ideology, spend money, etc. Come out from among them.


14 posted on 05/20/2014 7:01:18 AM PDT by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: Grumpybutt
Imagine if the tech companies set up specific training classes/courses catered to their needs in high schools

That's pretty much exactly what the STEM efforts by many in our area. It's less about getting STEM workers with bachelor's degrees than it is getting kids into votech and "non-college" training and education programs that give them hands-on experience and know-how rather than pure academia.

I'm not exactly sold on STEM, but I'm definitely not taking this article and its study at face value, either.


15 posted on 05/20/2014 7:05:40 AM PDT by caligatrux (...some animals are more equal than others.)
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To: SeekAndFind
...we find only modest levels of wage growth...

I think this is the key to the study. My experience is management wants the tech worker wage growth to be flat or negative.

16 posted on 05/20/2014 7:09:34 AM PDT by Menehune56 ("Let them hate so long as they fear" (Oderint Dum Metuant), Lucius Accius (170 BC - 86 BC))
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To: indthkr; rdcbn
Your response is BS and laughable, although based on the logic, you sound like a socialist, so I shouldn't be surprised.

Who peed in your Cheerios this morning?

He is absolutely right: Competent, experienced engineers and architects are always in short supply.

There are always localized surpluses: the boom/bust cycle of some industries cause a see-saw. And, there are geographical issues: different regions have different demands, and if you aren't willing to relocate, you can struggle to find another job.

But, I think the real cause of the mismatch described in this article is skill-based. An engineering, science, or IT degree can be worthless if you don't continually learn new skills. When I started, COBOL and FORTRAN were primary requirements. Then, it became C and C++. Java and .NET took the throne a while back, but in some places that is yesterday's technology.

Another issue is out-sourcing. Like manufacturing, technology jobs are migrating outside the US. The 'Net has made it much easier for someone to do technology work at home. But, if you can telecommute from home, then your job can be done by someone on the other side of the world.

It really comes down to performance: "average" isn't good enough in the US any longer. If you are exceptionally good at what you do, you won't have a problem getting and keeping a job. If you are just "doing what you have to do", it's a matter of time before you suffer the consequences.

17 posted on 05/20/2014 7:09:37 AM PDT by justlurking (tagline removed, as demanded by Admin Moderator)
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To: indthkr
“Top flight technical people are always in short supply”

Your response is BS and laughable, although based on the logic, you sound like a socialist, so I shouldn't be surprised.


Actually, top flight people in general are always in short supply. Top flight technical people are in even shorter supply because the subject matter is more difficult and the training required to obtain and maintain proficiency is rigorous

18 posted on 05/20/2014 7:11:44 AM PDT by rdcbn
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To: rdcbn

This article is 100%

I’m in and had been in the Chemical and Pharmaceutical industry

Whenever I have an entry level position open, I am flooded with Resumes from overqualified people with many years experience. I see many highly qualified people with long gaps in employment history, struggling to find any work.

Granted a big part of that is I am in New Jersey, but H1Bs (and Internships) have decimated salaries and jobs in this industry. Go to any pharmaceutical company, a quarter or half the science staff has the last name Patel.


19 posted on 05/20/2014 7:15:09 AM PDT by qam1 (There's been a huge party. All plates and the bottles are empty, all that's left is the bill to pay)
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To: rdcbn
Reports by the Economic Policy Institute (EPI), the RAND Corporation, the Urban Institute, and the National Research Council have all found no evidence that STEM workers are in short supply.

All these institutes are lying?

20 posted on 05/20/2014 7:20:20 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: proxy_user
What percentage of these degree holders actually have skills employers are looking for?

They probably have little to no skills.

My son, who is now in engineering school at Virginia Tech, was going to enter the STEM program that was just starting up at the time he was to enter high school. The teachers had a two week summer program to start the young children off and give them a flavor of what was to come so I dropped him off at the local high school and picked him up mid afternoon.

He was very upset as he said they spent most of the day surfing the Internet on the subject of rockets and then they made a couple of rolled up paper rockets.

An entire summer day wasted on nothing so I found out the list of teachers who would be doing the teaching for STEM and found none of them had the qualifications to teach any hard science or mathematics. On top of that many of the children enrolled had lousy GPAs and were not the children we thought would be attending a program developed for the express purpose of advancing children into science and engineering careers.

That first day was his last for the STEM program and he took all the real hard classes by himself.

The STEM program is nothing more than another waste of our hard earned money and a feel good for both low-level students and low-level teachers.

21 posted on 05/20/2014 7:22:19 AM PDT by OldMissileer
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To: skeeter

All these institutes are lying?

First, just because this guy says that all those institutes agree with him doesn't mean they actually do.

Secondly, they way they are looking at the data may be skewed. This guy says he was looking at people with bachelor's degrees in STEM. A lot of STEM focuses on high school kids and getting them into associate degree programs, votech, community college, etc., instead of a bachelor's degree.

Also, those institutes could have a biases against STEM. Maybe more government funding for STEM means less government money for research grants.

I'm not necessarily saying STEM is super awesome, rah rah rah. I'm just saying that this guy is selling a product, his research, and you should look at what he says just as carefully as you would the claims of one of those As Seen On TV infomercials.
22 posted on 05/20/2014 7:28:27 AM PDT by caligatrux (...some animals are more equal than others.)
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To: justlurking
"He is absolutely right: Competent, experienced engineers and architects are always in short supply"

No, you are both wrong.

Competant, experienced employees of ANY kind are in short supply. Apparently, a supply/demand pricing mechanism is no longer an acceptable approach (unless you are a Lawyer, CEO, Justin Timberlake, or a lobbiest).

As one US Defense Secretary once said, "You need to learn how to win the war with the Army you have, not the Army you want".

Maybe the problem is we need an H1B program for senior corporate managers and their K-Street lackeys.
23 posted on 05/20/2014 7:30:01 AM PDT by indthkr
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To: qam1
H1B visas area tool for companies to recruit foreign students, most of whom are graduating from US universities and are losing their student visas, to stay and work in the United States as high tech indentured servants.

The companies sponsor them in the US and they work for a number of years at 50-75% of the wages of a comparable US citizen.

Once the visa holder has a green card and is on track for citizenship, they either get a big raise or move on to a better paying job.

This ploy was pioneered by the Silicon Valley tech companies to recruit foreign Stanford, Berkley and other grads s cut rates and it has fueled the tech industry ever since.

These H1B visa holders are some of the most talented and productive members of our country and a huge fraction of the Silicone Valley elite stated their careers as H!B indentured slaves, doing the technical work American college students were too lazy to study for.

The reason America has a tech shortage is that American college students have historically been too lazy to study for.

Science and Engineering students often spend their Friday and Saturday evenings hitting the books, not the bars, while Gender Studies students are out at the bars studying gender with free government supplied contraceptives .

24 posted on 05/20/2014 7:33:53 AM PDT by rdcbn
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To: SeekAndFind

“The country has well more than twice as many workers with STEM degrees as there are STEM jobs. Also consistent with other research, we find only modest levels of wage growth for such workers for more than a decade. Both employment and wage data indicate that such workers are not in short supply.”

How will the “Sure, I’m against illegal immigration, but am all for those who want to come here legally” FReepers going to spin this one? That it’s O.K., since Big Business will be able to import more low wage employees, thereby displacing American workers who then can get on the 99-week unemployment gravy train and everything will be hunky-dory?


25 posted on 05/20/2014 7:34:26 AM PDT by SharpRightTurn (White, black, and red all over--America's affirmative action, metrosexual president.)
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To: proxy_user

Agreed. “STEM” is a mighty broad designation and many undergraduate degrees don’t count for much, while many employers are looking for experienced hires.


26 posted on 05/20/2014 7:34:52 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: indthkr

Actually, top flight people of ANY type are in short supply.

That’s what makes them “top flight”, every profession has a few elite practicioners.

Sometimes a few are sufficient for demand, sometimes there’s a need for more.

And there’s a solution for that: we call it the Free Market. . .


27 posted on 05/20/2014 7:35:27 AM PDT by Salgak (http://catalogoftehburningstoopid.blogspot.com 100% all-natural snark !)
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To: rdcbn

I hope you’re right. My son is starting college in August in astronautical engineering.


28 posted on 05/20/2014 7:35:41 AM PDT by cyclotic (America's premier outdoor adventure association for boys-traillifeusa.com)
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To: rdcbn

H1Bs are primarily used for foreign students graduating from US universities? That’s news to me!


29 posted on 05/20/2014 7:35:46 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: indthkr

If competent, experienced employees of ANY kind are in short supply, then it stands to reason that competent, experienced engineers and architects are in short supply.

I believe you must have meant to suggest that both previous posters are correct—not wrong.


30 posted on 05/20/2014 7:38:15 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: Yo-Yo

RE: Hmm, I wonder what an “H1B Visa” is?

The US H1B visa is a non-immigrant visa that allows US companies to employ foreign workers in specialty occupations that require theoretical or technical expertise in specialized fields such as in architecture, engineering, technology, mathematics, science, medicine, etc..


31 posted on 05/20/2014 7:39:15 AM PDT by SeekAndFind (If at first you don't succeed, put it out for beta test.)
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To: Salgak
"And there’s a solution for that: we call it the Free Market. . .

YES! We have a winner!
32 posted on 05/20/2014 7:45:44 AM PDT by indthkr
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To: 9YearLurker
H1Bs are primarily used for foreign students graduating from US universities? That’s news to me!


That's the way it works.

Foreign students make up a huge fraction of our countries STEM enrollment in many Universities because American public schools do a poor job of preparing high school grads for STEM studies and because Americans just don't want work hard enough to make through, much less excel, the STEM career programs

Eliminate H1B visas and the brain drain from our universities would be very problematic for the country.

I personally watched our POS immigration system deport a brilliant PhD Aeronautical engineer with a specialty in missiles for a paperwork error at the same time the Social Services jerks were recruiting illiterate illegal aliens to have government funded delivery of their anchor babies in American hospitals.

He went to China instead where he was welcomed with open arms , which was not a good thing for the United States

33 posted on 05/20/2014 7:50:28 AM PDT by rdcbn
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To: indthkr
Maybe the problem is we need an H1B program for senior corporate managers and their K-Street lackeys.

I think you've nailed it.

34 posted on 05/20/2014 7:51:08 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: rdcbn

Not exactly true.
Cheap technology people are in short supply.
Its all about “cheaper and shorter design cycles” right now.


35 posted on 05/20/2014 7:52:11 AM PDT by Zathras
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To: rdcbn
because Americans just don't want work hard enough to make through, much less excel, the STEM career programs

Ridiculous. This says more about where you're coming from than it does the point you're trying to make.

36 posted on 05/20/2014 7:53:26 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: FlipWilson

I have a son-in-law who is an expert in computer website design. He’s already quit two or three well-paying jobs because he didn’t like the way the company he worked for was going. He almost immediately got hired with better pay by other companies after quitting those jobs.


37 posted on 05/20/2014 7:56:58 AM PDT by driftless2 (:-))
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To: Zathras

Not exactly true.
Cheap technology people are in short supply.
Its all about “cheaper and shorter design cycles” right now.


It takes talented, top flight people to do things faster and cheaper and such people are hard to find.

If anyone knows where such people are in surplus supply please let me know because we are looking


38 posted on 05/20/2014 7:57:47 AM PDT by rdcbn
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To: qam1
"last name Patel"

As does it seem many of the people who run hotels and motels when the wife and I go out west on vacation.

39 posted on 05/20/2014 7:59:21 AM PDT by driftless2 (:-))
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To: rdcbn
Years ago a doctor told me about a horrible shortage of nurses... He said nurses were being brought in from the Philippines to assist...

I was puzzled - told him I knew of nurses who were having a hard time finding work.

Here's where it got real - he said, ‘American nurses want too much money’.... So the only ‘shortage’ was of desperate third world types willing to work for low wages.

40 posted on 05/20/2014 7:59:29 AM PDT by GOPJ (If dems will "death panel" our vets they'll damn sure death panel the rest of us...)
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To: rdcbn

I don’t know. As you can see here, more than half of the recipients come from India:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/HIB_by_nation_2006_to_2008.svg

and the top Indian companies import them by the thousands, whereas the top universities only give them out by the hundreds:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa#H-1B_demographics


41 posted on 05/20/2014 8:08:06 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: rdcbn

I have worked with a ton of H1b’s on my 25 years is semi design.
They are not brilliant, they are cheap and vindictive when proven wrong.

The “father” of H1b was a Sr Marketing Eng working for Intel on the original Pentium.

Even to this day, he calls himself “Father of the Pentium” even though he never worked on the design side.

To protect his job and stock options, he covered up the floating point flaw and lied to the CEO.

After he left several other companies, he landed back in India and started an outsourcing company.

Last I heard he is hiding from India gov on corruption charges.


42 posted on 05/20/2014 8:10:34 AM PDT by Zathras
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To: skeeter

because Americans just don’t want work hard enough to make through, much less excel, the STEM career programs
Ridiculous. This says more about where you’re coming from than it does the point you’re trying to make.


Oh, really?

Where I am coming from is about 20 years in STEM related higher education with a career focus on recruiting American High School grads for STEM careers and making sure they are better prepared for academic success at the University level and helping them with remedial course work so they can move forward with a STEM course of study successfully.

The rest of my career has been devoted to running cutting edge tech companies.

Where are you coming from?

Fact is many American High Schools have excellent advanced placement college prep course offerings that very few students take advantage of because they require hard work that high school students don’t want to put the effort into.

This attitude continues into their college studies. Most come in poorly prepared for success in STEM area studies and must take remedial courses to come up to speed.

Many find the work difficult and are unwilling to in the necessary efforts and move on to easier courses of study.

Foreign students on the other hand, almost uniformly have excellent preparation and come from societies were education is a privilege, not a right and is the only sure way to advance to a better life. They work hard like their lives depend upon it - because their lives actually do depend upon their striving for success.


43 posted on 05/20/2014 8:15:51 AM PDT by rdcbn
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To: SeekAndFind

While I don’t know much about engineering and mathematics employment, I can say that people with BS degrees in botany, zoology, geology, climatology, chemistry, etc, have a hard time getting employment. There just aren’t enough government-funded research projects or private business lab jobs to employ the number that are graduated every year. Even people with MS degrees find it difficult to get jobs better than bottle washers.


44 posted on 05/20/2014 8:19:12 AM PDT by VanShuyten ("a shadow...draped nobly in the folds of a gorgeous eloquence.")
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To: rdcbn
I could not care less what your credentials are.

Your comment "because Americans just don’t want work hard enough to make through, much less excel, the STEM career programs" is utterly ridiculous on its face.

Prove it.

45 posted on 05/20/2014 8:22:32 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: Zathras
I have worked with a ton of H1b’s on my 25 years is semi design.
They are not brilliant, they are cheap and vindictive when proven wrong.


Absolutely true. Many foreigners come with a very different third world background and can often be arrogant, corrupt, unethical, vindictive when proven wrong, exhibit difficulty admitting mistakes or failure and host of other interesting personality traits.

H1B indentured servitude jobs are like a high tech version of marine boot camp for beating these traits out of people and socializing them into US culture.

46 posted on 05/20/2014 8:24:51 AM PDT by rdcbn
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To: skeeter

Prove it.


Prove it?

I’ve lived it, sir for quite a few decades.

Including being one of those ill prepared and comparatively lazy undergrads who were dismissive of and who were laughing at the hard working Asian and Indian students who always seemed to be studying hard 24/7 in the Science library.

Those same Asian and Indians now run a huge fraction of the American tech economy.

Hard work, talent , training and ambition pay off and those traits simply don’t seem to be in as large of supply as they used to be in America. That includes the American children of those hard wring, highly motivated foreign H1B pioneers


47 posted on 05/20/2014 8:35:04 AM PDT by rdcbn
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To: rdcbn
You have no more than anecdotes. After three decades in high tech I have plenty of those also.

And aside from some cosmetic differences and occasional social behaviors there's very little to distinguish the guest worker from the native. Similarly driven, similar IQs. The only real difference is one was my fellow citizen, the other was not.

The argument that Americans are somehow inferior in motivation, intelligence or work ethic when compared to the foreign born is not only self serving and counter intuitive, its its generally destructive.

48 posted on 05/20/2014 8:50:58 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: skeeter
I think you mis interpret my comments.

My experience is that given similar background, skills and motivation Americans are much better than foreigners.

American values and culture provide Americans with an absolute advantage over most foreigners.

The problem is that highly talented young Americans are not choosing STEM careers and a large percentage are so poorly prepared by our public school system that those otherwise qualified Students who do try STEM ( i really hate that term, BTW) studies often drop out in frustration due lack of adequate background coming out of high school

49 posted on 05/20/2014 9:52:44 AM PDT by rdcbn
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To: rdcbn
YES, a plurality of teachers in public schools are far more interested in turning out liberal voters who won't mind funding the welfare state than they are independent citizens capable of critical thought.

May they choke on their pensions.

50 posted on 05/20/2014 11:03:03 AM PDT by skeeter
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