Skip to comments.The Article V Initiative: The way for the states to end Washington’s spending
Posted on 05/20/2014 11:16:14 PM PDT by kingattax
If youre frustrated by the refusal of Congress to stop its fiscal insanity and how could you not be? its time to start realizing that the Constitution gives states and the people more power over Congress than most realize. And right now there is an effort called the Article V Initiative that would wield and deploy that power.
Most people dont know, because they have never been taught, that Article V of the Constitution empowers the people through their state legislatures to propose amendments. Specifically, Article V proscribes a process in which two-thirds of state legislatures (34 total) can vote to direct Congress to call a meeting of the states for the purpose of proposing amendments.
This is not a constitutional convention, which would be for the purpose of writing an entirely new Constitution. It is solely for the purpose of voting to enact amendments. Once such a meeting of the states is called (and Congress cannot refuse if two-thirds of the states call for it), then any amendment would require a vote of three-fourths (38 total) of state legislatures for ratification.
I spoke this past weekend to the people leading the Article V initiative. They are determined to work with state legislatures to bring on board the 34 states that would call for this meeting of the states.
(Excerpt) Read more at canadafreepress.com ...
Not to be a negative nellie, but.....if the DC Imperium on the Potomac can not be compelled to obey existing clauses, articles and amendments....how will new restrictions fare any better?
very good question.
Oh, yeah. We can trust state and local politicians and their boss constituents. [Little irony there.]
Research links on the Article V process and the Liberty Amendments:
Convention of States - Alabama Way to go Alabama! A good introduction.
'Convention of states' to rein in government? Another great summary explanation.
The Case for an Article V. Convention. Fantastic explanation of Article V convention to the Mass State Legislature.
I would recommend watching the above three videos first and then:
Convention of States Lots of information here.
A Summary of Mark Levins Proposed Amendments by Jacquerie
Ulysses at the Mast: Democracy, Federalism, and the Sirens' Song of the Seventeenth Amendmentby Jay Bybee. Repeal the 17th!
Article V Convention: Path of Least Resistance by Robert Berry
Article V Handbook - for State Legislators An important resource.
State Legislators Article V Caucus State Legislators, Join up at this site!
Send this list of links to your State Representatives and Senators here: Contact your State Legislators.
Excellent Article V Letter to a State Assemblyman by Jacquerie
Lets all work together to get this going.
The Federal Government is broken. We owe it to The Founders and ourselves to attempt a rational Article V amendment process. If it doesn't work, or is hijacked, then fine, it's on to what we're all expecting anyway, revolution. It's your call America.
With structural amendments that cannot be ignored. Repeal of the 17th amendment would restore essential, freedom saving separation of powers between the states and the government they created.
A balanced budget statute is all well and good, but out of control spending is a symptom and not the cause of our distress.
Article V ping!
The old Constitution retarded the progressives for a century until they have degraded the document to the point where it has virtually no original meaning left to us today. We watch the Constitution, or what's left of it, being amended willy-nilly by a president with a telephone and a pen, a Congress with changing rules, or by four progressives and an unreliable, rootless, Justice and by an army of faceless, nameless, unelected bureaucrats.
Instead, why don't we at least try Article V and hold the bastards back for another century?
The realities of the the conservative count of the state legislatures are such that the downside risk is minimal and the upside potential is attractive.
2 + 2 = V
Our rulers are not even considering the Constitutional issues involved. Not once have I heard or read that 0bama , Reid, Pelosi or anyone in a position of real power has even brought up the Constitution as a serious matter for discussion in regards to the current expansion of government.
The only time our rulers invoke the Constitution is when they think they can use it for political advantage. But this tactic is waning rapidly as our rulers have come to understand that the vast majority of the electorate either dont understand what they are talking about or dont care.
The Constitution is now whatever our rulers say it is. It has no intrinsic meaning. Our rulers find rights where there are none and abrogate rights that are clearly stated in the document. We are now a nation ruled by caprice and political fad. This is a recipe for chaos and, eventually, tyranny and rebellion.
Well said, to a point.
For example “ - - - and hold the bastards back for another century - - - “ is a defensive stance.
In politics or War, one must go on Offense to win.
I support the Article V Initiative, and a many other defense and offense-based initiatives.
For example, if we are to benefit from what has and what has not worked in our Republic, we need to pause, from time to time and reflect on a skeptical examination of the basic assertions of the counterculture activists.
The Obamanation formula for the successful financial Fundamental Transformation of the United States of America can be defined, in part, as follows:
Mc + Vf = Sg
* Mc = Marxist Communism, defined by Englishman Intellectual Karl Marx as: FROM EACH ACCORDING TO HIS ABILITY, TO EACH ACCORDING TO HIS NEED.
* Vf = Volker Failure threshold of permanent financial failure as defined by Economist Intellectual Paul Volker: The Federally Regulated stimulation of financial debt, Private, State, or Federal, until that financial debt exceeds what can be recovered in a court-managed bankruptcy.
* Sg = Single Government, which is the system were everybody must pay a single Government entity, historically it has been an oppressive Dictator.
With over FOUR years of consistent refusal by Doormat Republicans, such as Boehner and Cantor, to enforce the Constitutional House Checks and Balances, Obama could not have asked for more gullible and unpatriotic enablers than Speaker Boehner and House majority Leader Cantor.
FORWARD, IN THE RACE TO THE BOTTOM !
It is time for those pushing an Article Five convention to tell us what is wrong with the current Constitution, they sound like a bunch of obama flakes yelling “Change, for changes sake”.
It’s not the current Constitution, it’s the way it’s been manipulated that’s the problem. You really need to go back up the thread to the post with all those RED LINKS and start reading through the material there. I’d suggest you start with any that reference Mark Levin.
History will record, (IMHO), that the current US House Republican Leadership failed for four long years to defend the US Constitution and implement the Constitutional Checks and Balances that they were given stewardship of.
Thus, the pathway has been cleared for all future incompetent wanna-be dictators that are elected to the White House to continue the Fundamental Transformation of the United States of America that has given Obama such progressively enjoyable, and EASY counterculture success.
The soft underbelly of the US Federal Government is now obvious to all: There is no effective penalty to those who violate the US Constitution, IF Federal politicians simply refuse to employ Constitutional Checks and Balances.
I call these current US House Republicans Leaders, and those House Members who keep the current House Leaders in power, DOORMAT Republicans. History will not be so kind - - - - .
I am in total agreement with you.
We should enact a constitutional limit on spending, as Switzerland has.
I knew that!
BTW, thanks for asking THE challenge question: “Put up or shut up, y’all!”
I like these type of threads,
Where - - -
Flame and Blame
Are put to shame,
Sweet dialogue prevails!
Maybe you didn't lurk very long before you joined FreeRepublic a couple months ago. Article V in general and repeal of the 17th in particular have been topics here since April 2013. Your gratuitous insult reflects your ignorance of why an Article V convention to recommend structural changes is absolutely necessary.
IF you wish to learn, check out as T-Bird45 recommended, post #5. You can also keyword Article V and 17th for dozens of posts.
I suspect this growing movement will make the national scene next month when the Assembly of States meet in Indianapolis on June 12th. Herman Cain is onboard, and other radio personalities will probably pick it up. If Judge Napolitano of FNN joins, it could be an issue in the November elections.
I have forgotten more about the US Constitution than you will ever know. Time here on FR has nothing to do with knowledge of our Constitution or this illegitimate g0vt.
Yet we agree on these:
I believe the Constitution means what it says. It is not a living document, nor does it contain any penumbras or emanations.
I believe the 17th Amendment is the primary reason our government is out of control. Instead of representing the states and tempering the passions of the mob in the House of Representatives as intended, Senators are no better than three term congressmen. They are however, far more pompous and dangerous.
I believe the founding fathers had a comprehensive knowledge of western civilization, from Plato, Aristotle, Augustine, Aquinas to Locke. They started with a blank slate and created, with the help of God, the best document ever written to direct the relationship of man and state to a federal government.
Thanks Teddy Roosevelt! The Ross Perot of his time.
If you would study Mark Levin's ideas, you would find that one of his proposals does exactly that.
Well then! Please educate us, professor! We're all eyes! Tell us what we should do! Shall we elect more Republicans?
If new restrictions are tied to their continuance in office or position of authority it becomes a very effective means of control — as an example I present my own thoughts on a fiscal responsibility amendment:
|Fiscal Responsibility Amendment|
| Section I
The power of Congress to regulate the value of the dollar is hereby repealed.
The value of the Dollar shall be one fifteen-hundredth avoirdupois ounce of gold of which impurities do not exceed one part per thousand.
To guard against Congress using its authority over weights and measures to bypass Section I, the ounce in Section II is approximately 28.3495 grams (SI).
The Secretary of the Treasury shall annually report the gold physically in its possession; this report shall be publicly available.
The power of the Congress to assume debt is hereby restricted: the congress shall assume no debt that shall cause the total obligations of the United States to exceed one hundred ten percent of the amount last reported by the Secretary of the Treasury.
Any government agent, officer, judge, justice, employee, representative, or congressman causing gold to be confiscated from a private citizen shall be tried for theft and upon conviction shall:
a. be removed from office (and fired, if an employee),
b. forfeit all pension and retirement benefits,
c. pay all legal costs, and
d. restore to the bereaved twice the amount in controversy.
The federal government shall assume no obligation lacking funding, neither shall it lay such obligation on any of the several States, any subdivision thereof, or any place under the jurisdiction of the United States. All unfunded liabilities heretofore assumed by the United States are void.
The federal government shall make all payments to its employees or the several states in physical gold. Misappropriation, malfeasance and/or misfeasance of funds shall be considered confiscation.
Section 6 is where the magic happens — note that it includes the elites: USSC justices, congressmen, etc.
[interstate] commerce clauseto allow congress to regulate intrastate- and non-commerce.
So the alternatives are to do nothing, or simply do more of the same... just keep electing conservatives. You do know what the definition of insanity is, don't you? The rude reality of the situation is that Washington, D.C. has more of an influence on our newly elected representatives than they have on Washington, D.C., plain and simple. That's the system, their system.
The Founders gave us Article V to use in the event of federal overreach, when Congress either fails or refuses to act in the best interests of the nation. Can there be a serious argument that that time has not come?
In the words of Ayn Rand: "The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it."
Precisely! The states no longer have representation in DC. The Founders envisioned a bicameral legislature as The House of Representatives being the house of the people, and the Senate being the house of the states. The 17th Amendment, although well-intentioned and arguably a necessity at the time, was, with now 100 years of hindsight, a mistake that needs to be remedied.
Prohibition seemed like a good idea at the time, too. We fixed it, and by God, the world did not end, and neither did the Republic.
Simply rectifying that one error, making Senators once again answerable directly to their respective state legislatures, will push the actions of the Senate more in a direction preferred by the states that sent them there.
You make my point... it's time for a change. Let's try a new idea... actually an old idea - George Mason's remedy: an Article V Convention of States strictly limited to proposing amendments to the United States Constitution that impose fiscal restraints on the federal government, that limit the power and jurisdiction of the federal government, and that limit the terms of office for its officials and for members of Congress.
At least that would be a good start, and it beats the hell out of sitting on our hands.
Members of society, its constituent parts participate in the government of republics.
In republican Rome, the landed families and the plebs shared legislative power. In similar fashion in Great Britain, the social orders of commons and nobles constituted law making in Parliament.
The people and states preexisted the founding of the American republic. A government was designed to act on both the people and the states, and both participated in lawmaking.
Since the major parts of society participate in republican government, it is essential the states participate in a government that has power over them.
Booting the states from the federal government made as much sense as booting the people from the House of Representatives. None.
Both are outrages, and the states MUST demand return to their rightful place in our republic.
That being said, there is a small likelihood that such a repeal would find favor even in an Article V convention because it runs against politically correct notions of democracy. Since the progressive movement generations have been brainwashed that more democracy is better than less and those who favor centralized government in Washington will be sure to argue that repeal of direct election of Senators is antidemocratic. The media will certainly be against it as will the blue states.
In the Context of an Article V movement, I wonder if the prize is worth the cost of political capital. I see the main problem to be rooted in the federal income tax which acts as a fire hose pouring money into Washington which it then distributes back to the states, albeit with strings attached, as bribes. Worse, the federal government now has virtually unlimited constitutional and legal power to borrow and, until the market crashes us back to reality, these monies are also funneled out to the states so that this combination of tax funds and borrowed money creates irresistible catnip to the voters who demand more and more.
Even with the election of senators by state legislatures I don't think the human nature will radically change. In other words state legislators are not more moral than federal legislators by nature and it will not take them long to send senators to Washington who will funnel money back to state legislators to distribute. We saw this him at work in the passage of Obamacare in which Democrat senators from states like Nebraska and Louisiana brought special advantages back to their states in return for their votes. I don't think that practice will change merely because the senator is elected by cronies in the state legislature because I don't think human nature is likely to change with the repeal of the 17th amendment. The root of the problem is in the income tax and the spraying out of money.
It is conservative to attempt to effect structural reforms rather than conceive that we have the godlike power to change human nature. The founders were wary of too much democracy and that's why they limited direct participation by the public in the election of federal officials to the House of Representatives. They were preoccupied with creating a structure that would limit the damage that humans with human nature would commit if operating unchecked. So they provided some direct election to check the power of the elites and they had institutions checking other institutions. The 17th amendment distorted the system by rendering the states less able to check the federal government. But worse structural distortions have occurred by the passage of the income tax and by the accretions of laws and Supreme Court decisions.
Therefore, if it is a question of allocating limited political capital, I would like to see The Article V movement direct its energies toward reform of taxes and other structural reforms such as the requirement that regulations must be ratified by Congress . If we have ample political capital, I would certainly spend it on repealing the 17th amendment. I hope you don't find my lack of relative enthusiasm too disappointing.
Move to Maine and help us secede, if you can and are willing to accept the risk and responsibilities that come with rights and freedom.
While that would probably help restore the republic (along with the simultaneous secession of the entire Northeast from Maryland on up - and take D.C. along with it), Missouri's winters are plenty cold enough for me, thank you.
Still, there is a building groundswell against statism. One doesnt have to be a conservative to see the screws tighten, to see the tandem decline of our personal/national wealth and freedom. A majority of Americans oppose Obamacare and mass amnesty. The states saw AZ border enforcement efforts get crushed. The states, as republics cannot even define marriage.
The Assembly of States will meet in about three weeks. The senior legislator of each state was asked to send at least one member from each party. Perhaps nothing will come of it, but it is worth the effort. Over a hundred legislators met last October in Mount Vernon.
As for human nature and the states, recall that federalism was generally left alone for twenty years after passage of the 17th. The federal tradition of the preceding 120 years, to avoid involvement in state police powers, held until the arrival of FDR. In similar fashion, if the 17th was repealed tomorrow, I would expect congress to conduct itself in much the same way for a period of years. However, that would change in time, when state legislators begin to feel the heat from constituents continually screwed by EPA, EEOC, FDA, HHS, DHS, Scotus, and all the other alphabet agencies with carte blanche to institute social justice. Senators from the states will have a hard time explaining why they supported judicial nominees with a track record of hostility toward the states. It will take time for citizens to realize their state rep and senator can influence Rome-on-the-Potomac.
Nothing is certain. We may collapse overnight into the hard tyranny Obama and the rats are working toward. Given their open efforts to stomp out political opposition, and rig elections, we may be past the time to save what remains of our republic.
Another obstacle, which supports your view of state immorality is the 1962 Baker v. Carr decision, in which a ham-fisted Scotus imposed one man one vote democracy on state legislatures. It is why big city constituencies dominate state government, and will work to prevent substantive reform and restoration of republican freedom.
We are on the same sheet of music. By my estimate, all good things are possible with repeal of the 17th, such as repeal of the 16th, return of legislative power to congress, and oversight of Scotus.
After last winter, anyone who speaks the words "Global Warming" Is labeled either a democrat or an idiot, to some of us the two words are synonymous. But, Oct, Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb, March, and April were all below normal here in Maine. Now in May, the nights are nice but the days are only in the 50's and 60's.
By the way, I agree with you, getting rid of the North East would do a lot as far as restoring the Republic is concerned, and I promise you we here in Maine will try our level best to get Maine out of the Union.