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China’s bullet train to Canada, a $2 trillion pipe dream on wheels
The National Post ^ | May 23, 2014 | Kelly McParland

Posted on 05/23/2014 1:01:34 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

I’m not an expert on the Chinese calendar, so it could be that April 1 comes in May in China, and everyone in Beijing is having a good chuckle at those gullible Canadians, who believe everything they read in the Chinese press. How else to explain reports, which have been circulating for some time, that China is discussing construction of a super-undersea railway-tunnel that would have high-speed trains barreling from China to the U.S., by way of Russia and Canada, faster than you can say “Mao’s your uncle”? As reported by Postmedia, where we believe everything we’re told, “the line would start in northeast China, run through Siberia, dive under the Bering Strait, daylight again in Alaska and continue into North America.

The rail journey from one end of the 13,000 kilometre route to the other would take less than two days at a speed of 350 km/h, according to Wang Mengshu, a railway expert at the Chinese Academy of Engineering who was quoted by China Daily. The distance from Russia to Alaska across the Bering Strait is around 80 kilometres, but the tunnel would be more than twice that length, at around 200 kilometres, the China Daily report states. That is about four-times the length of the Channel Tunnel, which connects England to France. . Fanciful as it may sound, the reports come from official Chinese media, so someone evidently thinks it’s true. But before you start lining up for tickets, there are some aspects of this report you should bear in mind....

(Excerpt) Read more at fullcomment.nationalpost.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Canada; Foreign Affairs; Russia
KEYWORDS: canada; china; russia; trains

1 posted on 05/23/2014 1:01:34 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Well, I’m guessing that the PLA took one look at the PLAN and demanded this.


2 posted on 05/23/2014 1:06:01 PM PDT by InMemoriam
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

What’s in Canada?


3 posted on 05/23/2014 1:10:48 PM PDT by Berlin_Freeper (You can't be passive and moral.)
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To: Berlin_Freeper

It goes through Canada to get to the USA.


4 posted on 05/23/2014 1:13:04 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I will raise $2Million USD for Cruz and/or Palin's next run, what will you do?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I’m not one to scoff at the technological possibility. As success writer Napoleon Hill once said, “What the mind of man can conceive and believe, it can achieve.” But there would have to be a much greater need for it than now exists to generate the will and capital to do it, even given the technical prowess.


5 posted on 05/23/2014 1:14:31 PM PDT by luvbach1 (We are finished. It will just take a while before everyone realizes it.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

This is a great idea, but it needs to be solar powered.


6 posted on 05/23/2014 1:14:33 PM PDT by Pearls Before Swine
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

A pits stop.


7 posted on 05/23/2014 1:16:23 PM PDT by Berlin_Freeper (You can't be passive and moral.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

On that train all graphite and glitter
Undersea by rail
Ninety minutes from New York to Paris
Well by seventy-six we’ll be A.O.K.

What a beautiful world this will be
What a glorious time to be free


8 posted on 05/23/2014 1:18:39 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Yet another “Sum Ting Wong” story.


9 posted on 05/23/2014 1:27:46 PM PDT by shove_it (long ago Orwell and Rand warned us of Obama's America)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
The only country China and Russia would like to conquer more than one another is the U.S.

(That's from the linked article.) The author is on drugs. Nobody on this Earth, China and Russia included, wants to conquer the USA. Why in the world would they want to do that? On the other hand, they might want to destroy the USA, physically or politically - and they have their reasons for that. However destruction is not a conquest. A conquest is impossible both technically and logistically, and it would serve no purpose - unless the new management wants to adopt 350 million dependents, and with them all the social problems that are already present in the US society.

The tunnel is technically possible; it can be made with today's technology, even considering high seismic activity in the area. However it won't be built simply because there is no purpose. Deliveries of Chinese goods to the USA are perfectly fine with cargo ships; it's not too expensive, and it requires no investments. There would be no other purpose, as the tunnel links two desolate, Arctic regions with no infrastructure.

The military concerns about the tunnel are laughable. It does not take more than two soldiers to inspect all incoming trains. Who, in author's opinion, would own the terminal in Alaska? If anything, shifting the balance from ships to trains will make the USA safer because the tunnel can be easily disabled if need be, and all trains have to reach a well defined point for unloading. Ships can go anywhere in the ocean, the ocean cannot be easily blocked, and the ships can unload stuff anywhere on or near the coast.

10 posted on 05/23/2014 1:37:14 PM PDT by Greysard
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
A bullet train from China to Canada is a great idea, especially if it could later be expanded eastward to Europe and southward to the United States.

In fact, I can see this as a great way to travel long distances, at least until the Wright brothers finish that new-fangled invention of theirs.

11 posted on 05/23/2014 1:38:19 PM PDT by Leaning Right (Why am I holding this lantern? I am looking for the next Reagan.)
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To: luvbach1

In the 1860s there was a question as to whether the transcontinental railroad made economic sense, considering the vast wasteland in between Omaha and California. But we filled in the wasteland with farms and cities. However, the same is not true here. The railroad would go through the most uninhabited area on earth, with no hope it will fill in unless global warming hits in a big way. At the top of every business cycle, there are always stupider and stupider projects funded, because all the more reasonable ones that have a return on investment have already been done.


12 posted on 05/23/2014 1:38:22 PM PDT by Vince Ferrer
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To: Berlin_Freeper
What’s in Canada?

Canada is underpopulated (they probably like it that way). China is overpopulated. I can read the tea leaves here! Besides, all those Chinese guys with no hopes of scoring with a woman in China will be the first on those trains to Canada.

13 posted on 05/23/2014 1:42:04 PM PDT by roadcat
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To: luvbach1

and if anyone can pull it off ... the Chinese can


14 posted on 05/23/2014 1:47:56 PM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true .. I have no proof .. but they're true.)
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To: Berlin_Freeper

massive amounts of resources.


15 posted on 05/23/2014 1:51:12 PM PDT by Bulwyf
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To: Vince Ferrer
In the 1860s there was a question as to whether the transcontinental railroad made economic sense, considering the vast wasteland in between Omaha and California.

Check out California history and the "Big Four" railroad tycoons. Building a transcontinental railroad to the West Coast made sense to them. They lined their pockets with riches fleeced off the government and passengers. So much riches that they built monuments (Stanford University, Crocker Bank, Huntington Hotel, etc.). The Big Four bought large tracts of land for cheap, and sold it to incoming passengers at sky-high prices.

The railroad had its detractors. The Big Four conned everyone into getting it built. Termination points and end destinations had nothing there, no infrastructure but they advertised it all as if it had everything to offer. They overcharged fees for passengers and freight. They overcharged the government for every mile that was built. They got extra reimbursement for every mile built through mountainous terrain versus the flatlands; hence they lied and stated few miles for flatlands. They over-promised laborers and scammed them for housing and amenities. The list goes on and on.

What doesn't make sense to the common intelligent man makes plenty of sense to those con artists looking to make bucks from government and regular folks.

16 posted on 05/23/2014 1:53:19 PM PDT by roadcat
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To: Vince Ferrer

Juneau doesn’t manage to have a road link to the outside world. Maybe they should start small before getting on with this larger project.


17 posted on 05/23/2014 1:56:44 PM PDT by RitchieAprile
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To: roadcat

It was more like the Big 3

http://mises.org/daily/2317

#4 was a bit different


18 posted on 05/23/2014 1:59:59 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

It seems to me that earthquakes would make a tunnel non-feasible.


19 posted on 05/23/2014 2:01:36 PM PDT by Savage Beast (Hubris and denial overwhelm Western Civilization. Nemesis and tragedy always follow.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
The rail journey from one end of the 13,000 kilometre route to the other would take less than two days at a speed of 350 km/h

And the 19 hour flight is no good because... ?

Half the time, likely the same (or less) cost, far more options for arrival location and time, the scenery (for Siberia, China, and the Pacific, especially) is just as good (if not better) from 35,000 ft... and the TSA will still be at the security gates for the train. I'll stick with flying, thanks.

You spend your $2 Trillion, China. It's a much bigger pool to skim from for all of the relevant players.

20 posted on 05/23/2014 2:05:29 PM PDT by Teacher317 (We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
The rail journey from one end of the 13,000 kilometre route to the other would take less than two days at a speed of 350 km/h...

I just completed a trip along the exact same route - from Los Angeles to Guangzhou. Passed very close to San Francisco, Anchorage, the Bering Strait, Magadan, Harbin, and Beijing. At 38,000 feet. In a bullet-shaped conveyance commonly known as an Airbus 380.

My ticket cost less than $1,000 USD.

What would be the business need for this boondoggle, again?

21 posted on 05/23/2014 2:07:52 PM PDT by Mr. Jeeves ([CTRL-GALT-DELETE])
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To: Greysard
A conquest is impossible both technically and logistically, and it would serve no purpose - unless the new management wants to adopt 350 million dependents, and with them all the social problems that are already present in the US society.

The value of human lives is very low, even to the common Chinese. There wouldn't be anything close to 350 million Americans here for long if China did make a successful stab at conquest. China also doesn't do Welfare for their own 600 million poor people. Why would they care to do anything for a "dependent" (and very lazy, especially in their 16-hour workday eyes) 50 million here? China and Russia both have solid histories with eliminating tens of millions of their own people that are inconvenient to the leadership. Both have done it more than once. Ripping up a hundred million or so Americans would not bother them in the least.

22 posted on 05/23/2014 2:12:30 PM PDT by Teacher317 (We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men)
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To: knarf
and if anyone can pull it off ... the Chinese can

The Chinese also have a very well-earned reputation for poor quality control. That's a lot of tunnel that needs to be perfect, and earthquake-proof, and uniquely prepared for the pressures of the Pacific... with technologies that are unprecedented (the Chinese are much better at copying than innovating)...

23 posted on 05/23/2014 2:15:43 PM PDT by Teacher317 (We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men)
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To: InMemoriam

“Well, I’m guessing that the PLA took one look at the PLAN and demanded this.”

That’s what I was thinking. They have a lot of soldiers but no way to get them here.

But then, why even bother. Can’t they just foreclose on the place?


24 posted on 05/23/2014 2:32:38 PM PDT by The Antiyuppie ("When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day.")
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To: Pearls Before Swine
This is a great idea, but it needs to be solar powered.

Or wind powered.

25 posted on 05/23/2014 2:37:59 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Hillary may have brain damage, but what difference does it make?)
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To: GeronL
#4 was a bit different

Actually, it was Big Four - Leland Stanford, Charles Crocker, Collis Huntington and Mark Hopkins. They all built huge mansions in San Francisco, for the most part destroyed in the 1906 Earthquake and Fire but parts rebuilt as hotels.

Your link about James Hill is a good one. So okay, some railroad tycoons are not robber barons! The Big Four were ruthless crooks. But they were largely responsible for the rapid growth in California after the Civil War.

26 posted on 05/23/2014 2:38:35 PM PDT by roadcat
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Won’t the Pacific ocean slow down a `bullet train’?
And make it soggy? Has this been thought through?


27 posted on 05/23/2014 2:56:50 PM PDT by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: all armed conservatives)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Shanghai to LA in a blink? ... Someday.. Wow.

I’d sure hate to ride the prototype

Until I know what the splat factor is.


28 posted on 05/23/2014 2:58:18 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi - Revolution is a'brewin!!!)
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To: roadcat

Government officials were the real crooks, without them the barons wouldn’t be able to rip off the taxpayers.


29 posted on 05/23/2014 3:02:14 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: The Antiyuppie
They have a lot of soldiers but no way to get them here. But then, why even bother. Can’t they just foreclose on the place?

I am sure they will foreclose; but not today. It will be at the time of their choosing. This will destroy the USD. The USA will follow within weeks, as old contracts expire and new contracts require payment in RMB (for example.)

30 posted on 05/23/2014 3:02:57 PM PDT by Greysard
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To: Pearls Before Swine

2 minus 0 ideas, trains and solar power!!!


31 posted on 05/23/2014 3:09:44 PM PDT by dalereed
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Two words... Jerry Brown

The Chinese want the Canadian oil and gas and they want to rid their country of population...... hence the bullet train concept


32 posted on 05/23/2014 3:19:17 PM PDT by Nifster
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Still makes more sense than the Pullit (as in my finger) train in California...


Ramirez's latest political cartoon LARGE VERSION
05/23/2014: LINK  LINK to regular sized version of Ramirez's latest, and an archive of his political cartoons.

In this political cartoon, Ramirez presents, "China and Our Technology"



FOLKS, THOSE OF YOU WHO CAN, PLEASE CLICK HERE AND PENCIL IN YOUR DONATION TO HELP END THIS FREEPATHONTHANK YOU!  We're over 79% now. Cool!
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33 posted on 05/23/2014 3:30:25 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: Greysard
owever it won't be built simply because there is no purpose. Deliveries of Chinese goods to the USA are perfectly fine with cargo ships; it's not too expensive, and it requires no investments.

I don't think so.

Ships are slow and the Chinese realize that the cost of fuel for those ships is increasingly expensive.

I think the Chinese realize that unless they can reduce the cost of transporting their crap to America, we might find it cheaper to make the crap in our own country.

I see this tunnel as a threat to jobs returning to America.

34 posted on 05/23/2014 3:43:54 PM PDT by Age of Reason
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

What a weird article. How do you talk about a train from China to Canada, while glossing over the fact that most expensive parts of the line would have to go through the US and Russia? I actually used to think this was a great idea, high speed rail connecting North America with the East Asian markets, but I also used to think that Russia was going to stop being an evil oligarchy at some point.


35 posted on 05/23/2014 4:15:45 PM PDT by Blackyce (French President Jacques Chirac: "As far as I'm concerned, war always means failure.")
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To: Blackyce

Are they more or less evil than our oligarchy?


36 posted on 05/23/2014 4:21:36 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I will raise $2Million USD for Cruz and/or Palin's next run, what will you do?)
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To: Age of Reason
Ships are slow and the Chinese realize that the cost of fuel for those ships is increasingly expensive.

Bulk goods do not care if they are delivered in one week or in two weeks. Water transport is cheaper than rail:

To move one ton of freight one mile by barge costs .97, by rail $2.53, and by semi-trailer truck $5.35.

There are other factors too. Ships require no railways; this means no one time investment and no maintenance fees. Ships can deliver to any port, whereas the railway of the proposed type will deliver from one terminal to another. One ship is not affected by an accident with another; but a railway (or a tunnel) would be blocked for weeks in case of a crash or a terrorist act. Ships can take the shortest route across the ocean; but trains have to go from Southern China all the way to the Arctic, cross there, then return back to SF or LA - across ten thousand miles of inhospitable tundra over permafrost, in the area of high seismic activity.

Cost of investments (such as the bank credit) will make this railway very expensive. As shippers will be preferring the ocean route, the railway will be starved of revenue, and this will further increase the price.

I think the Chinese realize that unless they can reduce the cost of transporting their crap to America, we might find it cheaper to make the crap in our own country.

I see no evidence of the theory that Chinese goods suffer from the high cost of transportation. This would create a price pedestal (a minimum price of an item) - but plenty of items are sold for peanuts. This means that their manufacturing and delivery are cheaper yet.

There is yet another consideration. For how long China is going to buy US debt and make products for the USA that are paid by that debt? If the USA is suddenly unable to pay, the ships can be easily rerouted to other destinations. But you cannot reroute the railway. China, of all countries, is the one that is most affected by this factor, and it would be very unwise to think that Chinese rulers do not look ten or twenty years into the future. The US debt stands at $17.5 trillion at this very moment. Who in his right mind would want to keep lending to a debtor who has no intention to ever repay? The US debt is a pyramid scheme, but other countries play along because pyramids are profitable all the way up to their collapse.

37 posted on 05/23/2014 4:33:27 PM PDT by Greysard
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To: All

If anyone in China has that much money to burn, they should apply it to the improvement of air quality in China.

If there’s any cash left over, use it to clean up all the junk in the oceans, a large portion of which originates from Asia.

Tunnels we don’t want or need, thanx.


38 posted on 05/23/2014 4:36:00 PM PDT by Peter ODonnell (It wasn't this cold before global warming)
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To: GeronL
Government officials were the real crooks, without them the barons wouldn’t be able to rip off the taxpayers.

Duh! It's also stupid taxpayers. It's a given that government officials become rich way beyond what their salaries would give them; hence they're in it for the kickbacks under the table. But stupid taxpayers vote them in, thinking they're getting something in return. It's greed all around. Look at this stupid bullet train that Gov Moonbeam Brown wants built in California. Everyone knows it's a stupid idea. But somehow they're convincing enough idiots to buy in, because those idiots are conned into believing they'll get jobs or riches in return.

The Chinese government just might be able to get a train built to North America, because they've got more idiots than us.

39 posted on 05/23/2014 10:37:59 PM PDT by roadcat
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“Are they more or less evil than our oligarchy?”

Would you rather live in the US or Russia?


40 posted on 05/27/2014 12:25:59 PM PDT by Blackyce (French President Jacques Chirac: "As far as I'm concerned, war always means failure.")
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To: Blackyce
Depends. How rich am I in this hypothetical and which part of Russia?
41 posted on 05/28/2014 4:18:08 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I will raise $2Million USD for Cruz and/or Palin's next run, what will you do?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

You make the same amount of money and you can live wherever you want.


42 posted on 05/30/2014 6:32:11 AM PDT by Blackyce (French President Jacques Chirac: "As far as I'm concerned, war always means failure.")
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