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Six Reasons Why Putin Seems To Have Lost In Eastern Ukraine
Forbes ^ | 05/23/2014 | Paul Roderick Gregory

Posted on 05/24/2014 6:46:10 AM PDT by Agog

There is a growing consensus that Vladimir Putin has abandoned his campaign to take control of east Ukraine. The fog of war, such as the killing of nearly 20 Ukrainian soldiers yesterday, is obscuring the distinct turn in the tide. Putin’s goal has changed from dismantling Ukraine as a united state to destabilizing Sunday’s presidential election in the east. Ukraine has a chance for a third lease on life.

(Excerpt) Read more at forbes.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: crimea; putin; putinsbuttboys; russia; surrendermonkeys; ukraine
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Given that FR lately has turned into a platform for pro-Putin and anti-US propaganda, here is a different perspective.
1 posted on 05/24/2014 6:46:10 AM PDT by Agog
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To: Agog

Libturdians are noisy and sometimes appear larger that they really are.


2 posted on 05/24/2014 6:51:15 AM PDT by lormand (Inside every liberal is a dung slinging monkey)
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To: Agog

“Given that FR lately has turned into a platform for pro-Putin....”

I don’t think that is entirely correct except as it relates to when he is juxtaposed against the Kenyan. Most of us know he is a KGB thug but the one difference between him and the Kenyan, is Putin seems to do what is right for his country.


3 posted on 05/24/2014 6:51:38 AM PDT by Mouton (The insurrection laws perpetuate what we have for a government now.)
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To: Mouton
No, it is entirely correct.

And Putin does not do what is right for his country.

He just presold an enormous chunk of his nation's future natural cash flow to the Chinese for what is effectively a high-interest loan.

He will retire from office a billionaire, though.

4 posted on 05/24/2014 7:03:45 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: Agog

Wow!! A foreign policy success for Obama. It must have been his “meals on wheels” policy (giving the Ukrainian army MREs) is what turned the tide.


5 posted on 05/24/2014 7:05:01 AM PDT by norwaypinesavage (The Stone Age didn’t end because we ran out of stones)
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To: Agog; jazusamo

Not fair to call it pro-Putin.

It is not pro-Putin to say there are no good guys there, and that there are troubling concerns with each side.

Nor is it fair to call it anti-US.

Obama truly has been incompetent in conducting US foreign policy. To criticize his and Kerry’s inept, weak actions is only speaking the truth.


6 posted on 05/24/2014 7:12:32 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: xzins

Obama has been such a disaster that he makes Carter look like foreign policy genius. But to the extent that the many pro-Putin posters here, whether paid by the Russian government or not, continue to celebrate a Russian leader who gives material support to sworn enemies of the United States, such as Iran, then it is fair to say that it is anti-US propaganda that has found a comfortable home here.

Finally, to those fools who believe that anyone who equates anti-Putin sentiment for support of Obama, I have nothing but contempt for them.


7 posted on 05/24/2014 7:22:10 AM PDT by Agog
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To: Agog

Paul Roderick Gregory is just another neoconservative ‘whistling past the graveyard’ hoping the Ukraine doesn’t descend into complete chaos.

Good luck with that.


8 posted on 05/24/2014 7:24:48 AM PDT by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: mac_truck

Certainly Putin, by having thousands of Russian troops infiltrate Ukraine, including Chechen terrorists, is hoping to create as much chaos as possible. I don’t think that is a good thing in absolute moral terms. Nor do I see how it helps U.S. interests in any way.


9 posted on 05/24/2014 7:38:25 AM PDT by Agog
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To: Agog

Pro-Putin is not wise, and anyone who equates anti-Putin with pro-Obama is doing drugs.

However, that does not mean that Putin hasn’t been running circles around Obama and Kerry. Nor does it mean that the so-called Ukrainian independence movement is clean-handed. Nor are the pro-Russian Ukrainians clean-handed. As already said, there are troubling concerns with both (all) sides in the Ukraine.

I do consider it lacking in perception not to recognize that the Ukraine has been part of Russia back to the 1700’s with deep ties even earlier.


10 posted on 05/24/2014 7:48:18 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: Mouton

Putin seems to do what is right for his country.

<><>><><><

LOL.

The gay man putin has raped his country enriching himself to the tune of 50-75 billion dollars and you say he is doing what is right for his country.

Hilarious.


11 posted on 05/24/2014 7:53:31 AM PDT by dmz
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To: xzins; Agog
Obama truly has been incompetent in conducting US foreign policy. To criticize his and Kerry’s inept, weak actions is only speaking the truth.

Absolutely correct.

From day one 0bama has kowtowed and bowed to our adversaries and given the cold shoulder or been downright insulting to some allies.

He and the people he's appointed to handle foreign policy are pathetically inept, Hillary was a joke and Kerry is worse. We haven't had a pro American foreign policy since 0bama took office.

12 posted on 05/24/2014 7:57:29 AM PDT by jazusamo
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To: Agog
I don't think anyone wants to see Putin become Czar of Eastern Europe but the current regime in Kiev installed by the US isn't legitimate either. My hope is that this Chocolate King Poroshenko can win a fair election and get Ukraine back on the right track. I would be nice to see it united again. Only time will tell.
13 posted on 05/24/2014 8:02:24 AM PDT by McGruff (What if I told you your leaders were lying to you?)
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To: xzins

There is no question that there are long standing ties between Russia and Ukraine. Indeed, Putin’s actions are in keeping with the Russian tradition of viewing Ukraine as a vassal state whose resources, both human and material, are to be seized and exploited. The presidency of Yanukovich served Putin’s desire to extract resources from Ukraine, and Putin’s actions since Yanukovich abandoned Ukraine are those of a thief whose victim is trying to recover his wallet.

With respect to the argument, “there are no clean hands here, a pox on both their houses”, I would point out that the argument breaks down the moment an outside country introduces thousands of its armed soldiers into the mix. At this point, the military and political leadership of the Eastern Ukraine “governments” consists of Russian citizens brought to Ukraine by Putin and his allies. The most aggressive and highly skilled armed forces of these men have also been brought in from Russia. This includes Chechen and South Ossetian fighters who have been engaged in combat and manning checkpoints in Eastern Ukraine. Videos of these men are now widely available on the internet.


14 posted on 05/24/2014 8:07:15 AM PDT by Agog
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To: dmz

$75 billion for himself and you say my comment is hilarious. $75 billion is quite a pile of money even in the world of inflation.

I stand by my commentary as it stands regarding how I see him compared to the Kenyan. If, as you say, Putin has enriched himself by $75 Billion, care to estimate how much the Kenyan has provided to his backers from the US Treasury and indirectly through his various redeployment of assets schemes??


15 posted on 05/24/2014 8:07:41 AM PDT by Mouton (The insurrection laws perpetuate what we have for a government now.)
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To: dmz
Interesting that you claim Putin is gay when Franklin Graham: Putin is better than Obama on gay rights and Putin says gay visitors to Sochi Olympics must 'leave children alone'. Who's right and who's wrong on this issue?
16 posted on 05/24/2014 8:08:28 AM PDT by McGruff (What if I told you your leaders were lying to you?)
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To: norwaypinesavage
Wow!! A foreign policy success for Obama. It must have been his “meals on wheels” policy (giving the Ukrainian army MREs) is what turned the tide.

Your sarcasm is correct.

The "Magic" Obama has very little to do with what is going on in Ukraine.

Folks who think otherwise don't know Ukraine.

17 posted on 05/24/2014 8:10:39 AM PDT by FreeReign
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To: Mouton

Are you unable to view Putin standalone? Putin has stolen 50-75 billion dollars from Russia and you think that’s doing good for his country.

OK.


18 posted on 05/24/2014 8:10:49 AM PDT by dmz
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To: Agog

You are right, but remember, like the RonPaulians, they are a small but vocal minority.

Propaganda presents as news, prior to, and during, news events.

News corrects propaganda when reality crystallizes.


19 posted on 05/24/2014 8:14:14 AM PDT by rbmillerjr (Russians to the Left of me, Useful Idiots to the Right...)
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To: McGruff

http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/putin-kisses-boys-stomach/

Ever seen this video?

What do you call a man who stops and lifts a boys shirt and kisses him on the stomach? Would you permit a man to do this to your son? What epithet would you use to refer to him?

Funny that Putin wants other gays to leave the children alone, mainly because he appears to want them all to himself.

Putin is seriously gay.


20 posted on 05/24/2014 8:15:33 AM PDT by dmz
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To: Agog
The current social media onslaught has been as impressive as the one during the Russian of Georgia. Months afterwards, informed observers realized how screwed up the Russians were.
At time, Internet Moscow has foisted an All Russian Propaganda overlay on Ukraine news and events.
I expected a massive regional invasion by the Russians. Instead we have various factions of thugs making chaos.
Mr. Putin may have been distracted if the US sanctions seized this $40 Billion private stash.
It is difficult to maintain a clear discussion of anything about the Ukraine now. Following the various accusations that are common, I am now not sure if I am an Anti Putin Obama Supporter or a Anti Obama Pro Putinist.
At this point, while Mr. Putin has seized Crimea, the West has gotten forces and agreements in place all across Eastern Europe. Unfortunately, Mr. Obama remains the US President.
Pity that.
TWB
21 posted on 05/24/2014 8:19:17 AM PDT by TWhiteBear (Sarah Palin, the Flame of the North)
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To: TWhiteBear
It is difficult to maintain a clear discussion of anything about the Ukraine now. Following the various accusations that are common, I am now not sure if I am an Anti Putin Obama Supporter or a Anti Obama Pro Putinist.

I really don't understand why one feels compelled to pick a side between the two evil doers.

22 posted on 05/24/2014 8:24:53 AM PDT by FreeReign
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To: Agog

Obama’s reckless support for coup attempts around the middle east have all failed. We have adversarial governments in Egypt and Libya. There was a counter-coup in Egypt, a killed ambassador in Libya, and now his Ukraine adventure has gone to hell.

Why blame this on those of us in the USA who don’t slobber all over the current regime he approves of in the Ukraine?


23 posted on 05/24/2014 8:29:00 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: wideawake

I’M disgusted with so called conservatives here kissing Putins ass. Hating Putin does not mean supporting Obama. I


24 posted on 05/24/2014 8:33:53 AM PDT by Kozak ("It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal" Henry Kissinger)
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To: Mouton

We saw plenty of hard core Putin worship and pro-Russia/anti-America/anti-NATO propaganda and activism.


25 posted on 05/24/2014 8:46:50 AM PDT by ansel12 ((Ted Cruz and Mike Lee-both of whom sit on the Senate Judiciary Comm as Ginsberg's importance fades)
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To: Kozak

Limited capacity is the only explanation for it.


26 posted on 05/24/2014 8:47:05 AM PDT by rbmillerjr (Russians to the Left of me, Useful Idiots to the Right...)
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To: xzins
Why blame this on those of us in the USA who don’t slobber all over the current regime he approves of in the Ukraine?

Obama really has no connections in Ukraine. There is no Muslim Brotherhood in Ukraine of course. So Obama had to choose from one of the pols in Ukraine and he chose Yats.

And in a couple of days Yats will be gone.

Meh.

27 posted on 05/24/2014 8:54:45 AM PDT by FreeReign
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To: xzins

BS. There are plenty of people here who are pro Putin. They think he’s a hero for his anti gay stance, his supposed Orthodoxy, his tough guy persona and his finger in Obamas eye. They ignore the fact he’s at war with America, not Obama.


28 posted on 05/24/2014 8:58:29 AM PDT by Kozak ("It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal" Henry Kissinger)
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To: Kozak

Not to mention that his is Ruler for Life and at war with his own people. Oh, you are fine as long as you agree with everything he says.

But do not dissent...do not protest...

People in the US don’t understand that Stasi sort of lifestyle and the chilling effect it has on a persons’ compliance and conformity.

So, ironic to see the liberaltarian perspective suck up to this guy.


29 posted on 05/24/2014 9:03:17 AM PDT by rbmillerjr (Russians to the Left of me, Useful Idiots to the Right...)
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To: Kozak

I disagree. There are people here who support his rejection of homosexuality and there are those who support positive words about Christianity and there are those who think he’s been running circles around Obama.

It’s like asking me if I’m pro-Hollywood because I supported a pro-Christian movie that came out of Hollywood.

It is possible to recognize some good while rejecting the bad.


30 posted on 05/24/2014 9:03:41 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: Agog
Six Reasons Why Putin Seems To Have Lost In Eastern Ukraine

It's interesting to note that that the author doesn't mention Obama once in his six reasons. Folks who have been following along with events in Ukraine over the last 15 years of more know why.

Yet we have folks here who have turned this thread into a Putin vs. Obama thread.

Not a good understanding by some of what's going on in Ukraine.

31 posted on 05/24/2014 9:04:43 AM PDT by FreeReign
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To: norwaypinesavage
Wow!! A foreign policy success for Obama. It must have been his “meals on wheels” policy (giving the Ukrainian army MREs) is what turned the tide.

In the end the Russians did not have the demographics on their side. Russian speaking Ukrainians are still Ukrainians.

32 posted on 05/24/2014 9:13:55 AM PDT by Mike Darancette (Do The Math)
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To: dmz

I noted he is a KGB thug in my original note. Is that not stand alone enough?


33 posted on 05/24/2014 9:33:49 AM PDT by Mouton (The insurrection laws perpetuate what we have for a government now.)
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To: Agog
Nor do I see how it helps U.S. interests in any way.

The American people have no 'interests' in the Ukraine. Sabe?

34 posted on 05/24/2014 9:40:48 AM PDT by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: dmz
What do you call a man who stops and lifts a boys shirt and kisses him on the stomach?

Russians often kiss young children and babies on the stomach as a sign of affection. If you must be cynical about this, it may have been Putin's attempt to humanize himself in advance of an upcoming summit.

35 posted on 05/24/2014 9:47:32 AM PDT by Kennard
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To: Kennard

Actually, for just about any Slav, for a stranger to kiss a young child like that is positively creepy.


36 posted on 05/24/2014 9:51:15 AM PDT by Agog
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To: mac_truck

Anything to counteract a resurgent Russia is in our interest.


37 posted on 05/24/2014 9:54:32 AM PDT by Agog
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To: Mouton

Not really, as the next word was ‘but’ with a comparison to Obama.


38 posted on 05/24/2014 9:58:27 AM PDT by dmz
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To: Kennard

I’m not being cynical. I am stating that is my considered opinion that Putin is gay. Way gay. Gayer than Clay Aiken.


39 posted on 05/24/2014 10:13:24 AM PDT by dmz
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To: Kozak

“So-called” is right. No conservative supports a KGB colonel.


40 posted on 05/24/2014 10:16:30 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: Agog
for just about any Slav, for a stranger to kiss a young child like that is positively creepy.

I'm being dragged into being a Putin defender, but this is ridiculous.

Putin was President and a politician, not a 'stranger'. This was the equivalent of a U.S. politician kissing a baby.

Cultural differences are important. For example, "in Slavic cultures, kissing between two men on the lips was, and continues to be, part of salutation etiquette." Were that not the case, every Soviet leader would have been a homosexual. Popes kiss young children.

Putin is a very smart and socially aware man. He would not have done what he did unless it was culturally acceptable. I think he did it to appear to be a big-hearted guy. That is not to defend his other actions.

41 posted on 05/24/2014 10:30:49 AM PDT by Kennard
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To: Kozak
They ignore the fact he’s at war with America, not Obama.

Putin hasn't done a thing to America. Obama is wrecking the country as we speak. If Putin were doing to American was Obama is doing the ICBM's would have already been launched.

Whom ever Obama and his Globalist puppet masters support, including the Neo-Nazi coup junta in Kiev, is automatically bad news for the people of the US and Humanity in general.

42 posted on 05/24/2014 10:31:51 AM PDT by Count of Monte Fisto (The foundation of modern society is the denial of reality.)
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To: dmz
If by extension you are inferring or stating that I am a Putin apologist you would be incorrect. Whether there is a “but” there or not, the statement about him is he is a KGB thug. Frankly, I think Obama is a democrat thug too.

In my view Putin has catapulted Russia back onto center stage with his various provocations. Obama at the same time has withdrawn the US from any world leadership role unless it is in concert with his crazy ideas i.e. redesignation of NASA into a Muslim outreach utensil. Whether it be the space program, the decline of the dollar in world trade, at the insistence of the BRICs of which Russia is one, unilateral nuclear disarmament favoring Russia, et al, Putin's leadership in Russia has benefited that country at our expense. That is the basis of my comments. These maybe as laughable to some who think he has amassed a $75 billion personal fortune but to me they form the basis of opinion. One does not have to be a proponent of anyone to assess what they have accomplished.

As far as the original post about why it seems Putin lost in the Eastern Ukraine, I believe the jury is still out on that one.

43 posted on 05/24/2014 11:01:38 AM PDT by Mouton (The insurrection laws perpetuate what we have for a government now.)
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To: Count of Monte Fisto

The fantasy of Nazis in Kiev is hysterical. The only Nazis around are Putin and his ass kissers, in a Russia, and right here.


44 posted on 05/24/2014 11:13:00 AM PDT by Kozak ("It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal" Henry Kissinger)
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To: Kozak

The Monte Fister guy is the FR equivalent of the lunatic in the public park who splits his time between ranting into a megaphone and feeding the pigeons. I wouldn’t waste too much time on him.


45 posted on 05/24/2014 11:16:56 AM PDT by Agog
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To: Count of Monte Fisto

Your foundation of is the denial of reality.

THERE FIXED IT-

There are more nazis/fascists in russia than all
the rest of the whole world...

Obama is putlers guy, they are same kinda commie/fascist,
so he is damaging us as well as obama. Hence the
big talk and no action on russian terrorists
in Ukraine tryong to stop the election...
Called ‘’’flexibility’’’


46 posted on 05/24/2014 11:30:08 AM PDT by hubel458
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; cardinal4; ColdOne; ...
Thanks Agog.
Putin’s goal has changed from dismantling Ukraine as a united state to destabilizing Sunday’s presidential election in the east. Ukraine has a chance for a third lease on life.

47 posted on 05/24/2014 1:08:37 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: dmz

You’re probably right.


48 posted on 05/24/2014 1:15:05 PM PDT by windcliff
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To: dmz

~http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/putin-kisses-boys-stomach/

Ever seen this video?

What do you call a man who stops and lifts a boys shirt and kisses him on the stomach? Would you permit a man to do this to your son? What epithet would you use to refer to him?

Funny that Putin wants other gays to leave the children alone, mainly because he appears to want them all to himself.

Putin is seriously gay.~

LOL. Modern western culture is sexualized too much. Everything is only about sex these days.
I won’t be surprised to see a father arrested for holding his young son’s hand on a walk.


49 posted on 05/24/2014 8:01:16 PM PDT by wetphoenix
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To: Agog

Thank you for taking a stand in this. Russian propagandists are very prolific and sometimes it feels I am reading Communist Party Daily and not Free Republic. I know it is likely not accurate and they are a vocal minority, but it is still demoralizing when people don’t tell them what is what.


50 posted on 05/25/2014 4:46:23 AM PDT by Krosan
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