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Poland's Gen. Wojciech Jaruzelski Dies at 90
ABC - AP ^ | 5/25/2014 | VANESSA GERA

Posted on 05/25/2014 9:47:13 AM PDT by Borges

Gen. Wojciech Jaruzelski, the communist leader who imposed harsh military rule on Poland in 1981 in an attempt to crush the pro-democracy Solidarity movement but years later allowed reforms that ended up dismantling the regime, has died at age 90.

(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: poland

1 posted on 05/25/2014 9:47:13 AM PDT by Borges
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To: Borges

2 posted on 05/25/2014 9:49:35 AM PDT by Borges
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To: Borges; Cap Huff; ASA Vet

A name from the not so distant past.


3 posted on 05/25/2014 9:53:07 AM PDT by Dog (Founding member of the Osama Bin Laden was alive the whole time club..)
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To: Borges

A Russian dressed in a Polish uniform.


4 posted on 05/25/2014 9:57:21 AM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar

A Russian dressed in a Soviet uniform. Polish uniforms actually are pretty cool-looking.


5 posted on 05/25/2014 10:04:24 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Borges

A criminal.


6 posted on 05/25/2014 10:06:18 AM PDT by cornelis
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To: Dog; Borges; Cap Huff; ASA Vet; kabar; Cornelius; zot

Having been in Army G-2 during the Polish crisis of 1980-81, Gen. Jaruzelski should be given some credit for what he did. His taking command and actually working with Lech Walensa, saved Poland from being invaded by the Soviets and their East German lackeys. This will probably all come out some day, but there were things going on between Walensa and Jaruzelski that gave Jaruzelski the ability to tell the Soviets to “stay out of Poland.”

Believe me, the Soviets were ready to roll across the border into Poland. Of course that would have brought a full-scale Polish uprising, including the Polish military against the Soviets and East Germans.


7 posted on 05/25/2014 10:26:26 AM PDT by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: GreyFriar

That would have been something to see, the brave, and stubborn Poles (I know, I married one) in a rematch vs. U.S.S.R. and Germany. Thanks for the information. May Poland never perish !


8 posted on 05/25/2014 11:12:58 AM PDT by jttpwalsh
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To: GreyFriar
Gen. Jaruzelski should be given some credit for what he did.

Agreed. Poland easily could have experienced what Hungary experienced in 1956. If that would have happened, Walesa would have been shot and Solidarity would have been crushed. Even the Polish army plus the Polish people could not have stopped the Soviet and East German tanks.

So I'm willing to give Jaruzelski the benefit of the doubt here. Perhaps he picked the best out of a number of bad choices.

9 posted on 05/25/2014 11:26:01 AM PDT by Leaning Right (Why am I holding this lantern? I am looking for the next Reagan.)
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To: Borges

The Dope and the Pope!


10 posted on 05/25/2014 11:34:04 AM PDT by MIchaelTArchangel (Have a wonderful day!)
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To: Leaning Right

Lean, you posted: “So I’m willing to give Jaruzelski the benefit of the doubt here. Perhaps he picked the best out of a number of bad choices.”

Yes, it was the best of several bad choices. Jaruzelski was a Polish Patriot and wanted to preserve his nation, but not at the cost of having it destroyed by either totally capitulating to the Soviets or in causing a war that would have destroyed the country. And resulting perhaps in another partition of Poland between “Russia & Germany.”

The Czech’s let the Soviet’s know that they were NOT going to be a third invasion front, and did not want the Soviet Divisions in Czechoslovakia to be used either.


11 posted on 05/25/2014 11:41:10 AM PDT by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: Leaning Right

In one of those TV biopics of St. John Paul II, Jaruzelski was portrayed as a self-declared Polish “patriot” who was caught between a rock & a hard place at that point in history, and had made some accommodation with the Pope so as not to incur Russia’s wrath. Whether this story line was based on any actual accounts or pure melodrama, who knows…


12 posted on 05/25/2014 11:43:44 AM PDT by mikrofon (Memorial Day BUMP)
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To: 1rudeboy

Polish uniforms actually are pretty cool-looking.

Not with Communists wearing them. I lived in Warsaw when Jaruzelski declared martial law. Solidarnosc' was the threat. Cap Weinberger's remark about Jaruzelski being a Russian in a Polish uniform really got Jaruzelski angry. It was the reason why it took years for us to get an Ambassador accepted in Warsaw.

13 posted on 05/25/2014 12:10:52 PM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar

Lookout, the propagandists and useful idiots have arrived to declare the murderer and criminal a “patriot”!

He conducted the 1968 invasion of Czechoslovakia, the suppression of strikes in Poland in 1970, the bloody martial law in 1981, some patriot! Earlier, in the 1940s, he murdered the opponents of the Soviets in Poland.


14 posted on 05/25/2014 12:19:06 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (I Laugh U!)
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To: Borges
December 13, 1981 Wojciech Jaruzelski ogłasza wprowadzenie stanu wojennego

The atmosphere of endless conflict, misunderstanding, hatred sows mental havoc. The chaos and demoralization took the size of the disaster. History will judge our actions. We need to tie hands of troublemakers. The Council of State in accordance with the provisions of the Constitution, introduced martial law throughout the country, today at midnight. We are only a drop in the stream of Polish history. Polish-Soviet alliance is and will remain the cornerstone of the Polish raison d'etat. I appeal to you officers of Civic Militia and Security Service – guard the state from the enemy. The hour of ordeal has come.

15 posted on 05/25/2014 12:29:15 PM PDT by cornelis
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To: GreyFriar
Having been in Army G-2 during the Polish crisis of 1980-81, Gen. Jaruzelski should be given some credit for what he did. His taking command and actually working with Lech Walensa, saved Poland from being invaded by the Soviets and their East German lackeys.

I lived in Warsaw 1981-83 including during the time martial law was declared. I worked at our embassy. What you are saying is just BS to use an earthy term. This is how Jaruzelski justified his crackdown on the Poles and Solidarnosc'. He was not working with Walesa.

Maybe you do not have any understanding of what is like to live in a police state like Poland under the Communists. This "beneficent, patriotic" Jaruzelski was killing and torturing his own people. Even bread was rationed except for the ruling elites.

Yes, we were privy to reports about the Soviets massing at the borders thus forcing to crack down even harder on Solidarnosc' thru martial law. The idea that Walesa was working with Jaruzelski is ludicrous.

The suppression of the democracy movement resulted in the mass imprisonment of thousands of dissidents, the deaths of dozens and economic stagnation that contributed to the system's eventual undoing. It also pushed many Poles to flee the country and seek exile in the West.

Remember the fate of Father Jerzy Popiełuszko?

I really have a hard time controlling myself when I read the crap about giving Jaruzelski "credit" for anything good. I seriously doubt the Soviets would have invaded Poland. The Poles would fight regardless of the odds and the Soviets knew that. And imagine if the GDR invaded invoking images of the Nazis during WWII.

16 posted on 05/25/2014 12:47:13 PM PDT by kabar
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To: GreyFriar
Your excuse is what this man claimed himself, in court under charges for illegal activities. The court acquitted Stanislaw Kania, who had sense enough to resign when martial law was enacted. Under martial law, it matters not what flag the jackboots are flying.
17 posted on 05/25/2014 1:02:55 PM PDT by cornelis
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To: All


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18 posted on 05/25/2014 1:08:04 PM PDT by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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To: kabar

Kabar,

My term “working” was not in the literal sense, of which you are correct. But things could have been much worse, and this is from my view of reports that were coming from the Embassy, the military attaché’s, and relatives of another watch officer had in several cities in Poland.

I recall the G-3 asking “when will the soviets invade?” My answer was, all of the indicators have been met except for Moscow giving the order to move.” And my years were off, 1980-83 is the correct period.

I’m not making Jaruzelski a saint but just that things could have been worse regarding a Soviet invasion.

I think the CIA has finally declassified some of their HUMINT reporting on this. I’ll have to check the web.


19 posted on 05/25/2014 1:10:19 PM PDT by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: GreyFriar
My term “working” was not in the literal sense, of which you are correct. But things could have been much worse, and this is from my view of reports that were coming from the Embassy, the military attaché’s, and relatives of another watch officer had in several cities in Poland.

You are spouting the line that Jaruzelski spouted when he met with US diplomats. It is BS and was recognized as such. And the military attaches at the Embassy knew that Jaruzelski was a communist dictator. If you believe various reports post the collapse of the Soviet Union using documents at the time, the Soviets had no intention of invading. In fact, available documents indicate that Jaruzelski actually lobbied for Soviet intervention.

"Historical evidence released under Russian President Boris Yeltsin has been brought to light indicating that the Soviet Union did not plan to invade Poland. In fact, Jaruzelski actually tried to persuade the Soviets to invade Poland in order to support martial law, only to be sternly turned down. This left the Solidarity "problem" to be sorted out by the Polish government."

According to Politburo minutes from 10 December 1981, Yuri Andropov stated "We do not intend to introduce troops into Poland. That is the proper position, and we must adhere to it until the end. I don't know how things will turn out in Poland, but even if Poland falls under the control of Solidarity, that's the way it will be."

Jaruzelski is trying use revisionist history to justify his cruel crackdown on Solidarnosc'. I remember the night it happened and it surprised all of us at the Embassy. Yet, "Jaruzelski also claimed in 1997 that Washington had given him a "green light", stating that he had sent Eugeniusz Molczyk to confer with Vice President George H. W. Bush and Bush had agreed with Molczyk that martial law was the lesser of two evils."

I can tell you without equivocation there was no green light from the USG for martial law. Jaruzelski is an inveterate liar and a traitor. He should have been imprisoned.

"On 31 March 2006, the Institute of National Remembrance (IPN) charged him with committing communist crimes, mainly the creation of a criminal military organization with the aim of conducting crimes (mostly concerned with the illegal imprisonment of people). The second charge involves the incitement of state ministers to commit acts beyond their competence[citation needed]. Jaruzelski has avoided most court appearances citing poor health."

We will see if Jaruzelski gets a hero's funeral from the people of Poland.

I’m not making Jaruzelski a saint but just that things could have been worse regarding a Soviet invasion.

I just don't buy the premise or that the brutal crackdown was an act of patriotism. Life was bad enough for the Polish people under Communism, including the SB. Jaruzelski was in charge and should be held accountable for what was done during his regime.

20 posted on 05/25/2014 1:40:06 PM PDT by kabar
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To: cornelis

I piss on his grave.


21 posted on 05/25/2014 2:04:09 PM PDT by wetgundog (" Extremism in the Defense of Liberty is no Vice")
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To: Revolting cat!

Yeah I was shocked by how relatively positive the response has been.


22 posted on 05/25/2014 2:21:59 PM PDT by Borges
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To: Borges
The line of defense and heroism is what the post-communists in Eastern Europe have been promoting, New York Times repeating, and Internet keyboard "intellectuals" parroting as their own original insights. Here's an "obituary" by a young Polish journalist Dawid Wildstein, whose father Bronislaw Wildstein, an intellectual and student activist during Jaruzelski's reign who suffered for his opposition (and survived, while his best friend was murdered by the secret police.) Translated by Google Translate:

I will cry, because the criminal departed unjudged. Because he died free. And I'll cry if you bury him with honors and in any place that is designed for distinguished Poles. And probably this will happen. And I'll cry if dirty authorities of the Third Republic will now defend murderers and human totalitarianism. And probably it will happen.

But I will not cry, he died as one who terrorized and intimidated its own citizens. I will not cry after the dictator who served the red totalitarian ideology as monstrous as Nazism, an ideology which murdered millions. Who was willing to enslave their own country to serve another state. I will not cry after the man who was the author of the anti-Semitic purges and commanded an army that invaded a neighboring country, there to suppress freedom with bullets and tanks.


23 posted on 05/25/2014 2:43:58 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (I Laugh U!)
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To: GreyFriar

Thanks for your post # 7. I didn’t know that.


24 posted on 05/25/2014 4:31:50 PM PDT by zot
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To: Borges

25 posted on 05/25/2014 8:59:26 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: GreyFriar

Let’s set the record straight.

A few months before, Jaruzelski begged the Soviets to invade Poland, they flat out told him “No.”

The story he made up about saving Poland from Soviet invasion was BS.


26 posted on 05/25/2014 9:01:05 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Borges

Every time a Commie dies, an angel gets its’ wings.


27 posted on 05/25/2014 9:03:17 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: kabar

Remember the heroes of the Wujek Mine.

28 posted on 05/25/2014 9:17:38 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: GreyFriar; Leaning Right

Jaruzelski was no Polish patriot. He called on Moscow to send troops to crush solidarity. When that failed, he called for martial law. It failed because Moscow made the decision in the spirit of glastnost not to get involved in another satellite state like it did in Hungary and Czechia.


29 posted on 05/28/2014 2:03:23 PM PDT by Cronos (Obama’s dislike of Assad is not based on Assad’s brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
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To: Cronos

Unfortunately, many Poles do buy into the myth that he saved Poland from Soviet invasion.


30 posted on 05/28/2014 2:05:37 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

it’s good marketing/propaganda


31 posted on 05/29/2014 3:33:47 AM PDT by Cronos (Obama’s dislike of Assad is not based on Assad’s brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
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To: Cronos; Leaning Right

I can only say, that looking at the intel that was coming across my desk every day during the crisis, there was NO indication that the Kremlin was NOT going to invade. As I originally said, the Soviets had matched all the indicators for invasion that had occurred before Hungary, Czechoslovakia, and East Germany.

There was only the decision to be made and we had no inside the Kremlin info on that.


32 posted on 05/29/2014 6:11:44 AM PDT by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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