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IRS Bars Employers from Dumping Workers into Health Exchanges
The New York Times ^ | May 25, 2014 | Robert Pear

Posted on 05/26/2014 1:47:18 PM PDT by rusty schucklefurd

Many employers had thought they could shift health costs to the government by sending their employees to a health insurance exchange with a tax-free contribution of cash to help pay premiums, but the Obama administration has squelched the idea in a new ruling.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 0carenightmare; exchanges; irs; obamacare; obamacareemployers; shaftingemployers; zerocare
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I know this is a stupid question, but is this legal for the IRS to bar employers from transferring employees to the exchanges? If not, all this is going to do is force employers to lay off more workers or cut hours. But, then, that's probably the point.
1 posted on 05/26/2014 1:47:18 PM PDT by rusty schucklefurd
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To: rusty schucklefurd

The Morphing Obamacare Morphs again


2 posted on 05/26/2014 1:48:39 PM PDT by molson209 (Blank)
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To: rusty schucklefurd

Remember when Congress made the law??


3 posted on 05/26/2014 1:49:49 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: rusty schucklefurd

they are trying to ban employers from giving employees tax free money to choose and buy their own health insurance through the exchanges

notably the IRS calls this “dumping”

so what does that tell us about the quality of insurance offered by obamacare exchanges?

LOL!


4 posted on 05/26/2014 1:51:07 PM PDT by silverleaf (Age takes a toll: Please have exact change)
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To: rusty schucklefurd

Ok I wont transfer them, but I will drop my companies plan. Not sure what the employees will do.


5 posted on 05/26/2014 1:53:34 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: rusty schucklefurd

Ain’t fascism grand?


6 posted on 05/26/2014 1:54:04 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: rusty schucklefurd

Obama yet again proves that if you like dumping your workers into exchanges, you can keep it./s


7 posted on 05/26/2014 1:56:11 PM PDT by Candor7 (Obama fascism article:(http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/barack_obama_the_quintessentia_1.html))
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To: rusty schucklefurd

This move comes from the realization that the employers who do plan to “dump” their employees may choose to announce their intentions early in November. I predict that this rule will be revoked in an off election year since Obama has publicly stated that he wants to disconnect health care from employment. (His unstated goal is to “connect” health care with government, thus, IRS controlled exchanges.)


8 posted on 05/26/2014 1:56:30 PM PDT by the_Watchman
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To: rusty schucklefurd

…but….but….but….we were told in 2009 that this is why smart businessmen would WANT Obama Care to pass……...


9 posted on 05/26/2014 1:59:09 PM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (Do NOT suffer fools gladly┬ůand message boards are full contact arenas)
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To: berdie

later


10 posted on 05/26/2014 1:59:44 PM PDT by berdie
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To: rusty schucklefurd

Of course it’s legal in this well thought out plan. /s
Zer0 plays it by ear.

legal shemgal.
Il Douche has spoken.


11 posted on 05/26/2014 2:00:21 PM PDT by Vinnie
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To: rusty schucklefurd
 photo dccd9a2b-2f0a-48d0-b711-322f320b8fe3_zps88e6905c.gif
12 posted on 05/26/2014 2:01:05 PM PDT by Huskrrrr
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To: rusty schucklefurd; John Semmens

Didn’t John Semmens post a satire implying this? Not only a satirist, but a prophet as well.


13 posted on 05/26/2014 2:02:56 PM PDT by fhayek
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To: rusty schucklefurd
In order to insure the uninsured, we first have to un-insure the insured.

Next we require the newly un-insured to be re-insured.

To re-insure the newly un-insured, they are required to pay extra charges to be re-insured.

The extra charges are required so that the original insured, who became un-insured, and then became re-insured, can pay enough extra so that the original un-insured can be insured for free.

There, I hope that this clarifies this issue once & for all.

14 posted on 05/26/2014 2:03:08 PM PDT by SkyDancer (I Believe In The Law Until It Intereferes With Justice. And Pay Your Liberty Tax Citizen.)
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To: rusty schucklefurd

In a just World, probably not, but there has not been a just world in the United States of America since November 4, 2008 when a majority of voters said, via their votes, that they wanted a muslim to rule over them.


15 posted on 05/26/2014 2:03:48 PM PDT by sport
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To: driftdiver

wil you then have to pay the “fine’ for each employee, or are thy mandating that you insure them>?


16 posted on 05/26/2014 2:04:44 PM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie
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To: Vinnie

“Il Douche has spoken.”

Ha, I’m not the only one that calls him that.


17 posted on 05/26/2014 2:04:46 PM PDT by Huskrrrr
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To: SkyDancer

To understand your post, I had to draw a chart, but yes, I think that you have nailed it. Liberal logic is a world unto itself.


18 posted on 05/26/2014 2:06:44 PM PDT by fhayek
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To: GeronL

What I remember more clearly is when I ignored congress, and the senate, and the Resident and the SCOTUS.

I’m not playing this game.

Reminds of some line from some movie from another place and time...

The only way to win is not to play.


19 posted on 05/26/2014 2:10:17 PM PDT by chris37 (heartless)
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To: molson209
molson209:"The Morphing Obamacare Morphs again"

the beauty of Obummmercare is that it is so 'morphic' ..so that it is : AMORPHIC !!
It is so "arbitrary and capricious", has no bounds as a tax (Supreme Court approved ) , that IT IS ILLEGAL !!
It is BITCOIN for TAXATION !!

20 posted on 05/26/2014 2:10:32 PM PDT by Tilted Irish Kilt (Political Correctness is Tyranny .. with manners ! Charlton Heston)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

I thought this was.what the leftists wanted...millions on the exchanges.

Lol looks like Obama is afraid the exchanges are too lousy to push
the public into using them.


21 posted on 05/26/2014 2:13:23 PM PDT by what's up (sun)
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To: SkyDancer

Well said!


22 posted on 05/26/2014 2:13:54 PM PDT by Attention Surplus Disorder (At no time was the Obama administration aware of what the Obama administration was doing)
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To: fhayek

I’d love to see your chart.


23 posted on 05/26/2014 2:14:19 PM PDT by SkyDancer (I Believe In The Law Until It Intereferes With Justice. And Pay Your Liberty Tax Citizen.)
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To: rusty schucklefurd

Guess you business owners shouldn’t have backed/voted for Obama.

Oh well - sucks to be you.

Have a nice day. :)


24 posted on 05/26/2014 2:14:42 PM PDT by Tzimisce
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To: rusty schucklefurd

“I know this is a stupid question, but is this legal for the IRS to bar employers from transferring employees to the exchanges?”
Under this president there are several answers. They can do anything they are told by the president and he’ll pen and phone it into law. Somebody must challenge the ruling in court. That takes years and millions of dollars. Also, the IRS can seize your assets and run you out of business if you don’t agree. (Yep. True story.)


25 posted on 05/26/2014 2:15:32 PM PDT by Gen.Blather
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To: SkyDancer

Right on the (snicker) money.


26 posted on 05/26/2014 2:15:39 PM PDT by Shady (We will not comply. We are Free, We Are AMERICANS!)
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To: Huskrrrr

That pic of Il Douche with the Il Duce posture, chin lifted and jutting out, a perfect likeness.


27 posted on 05/26/2014 2:15:50 PM PDT by Vinnie
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To: rusty schucklefurd

I wonder how this is going to affect At&t’s plan to dump retirees and their pension plan/medical plan to the Obamacare plans.


28 posted on 05/26/2014 2:15:52 PM PDT by The Working Man
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To: silverleaf

“the IRS calls this “dumping”

so what does that tell us about the quality of insurance offered by obamacare exchanges?”

Yeah, or perhaps that’s the word chosen by the NY Times?

Boy, they sure are full of bs, aren’t they?


29 posted on 05/26/2014 2:18:08 PM PDT by jocon307
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To: rusty schucklefurd

This is brilliant, empower the IRS to run the economy and healthcare. The ultimate liberal fascist wet dream.


30 posted on 05/26/2014 2:19:51 PM PDT by headstamp 2 (What would Scooby do?)
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To: rusty schucklefurd

The strategy of employers to cease their own group plans and pay employees so that they could replace those policies on the exchange was born of economic necessity. The insurance companies have told them that their group premiums are going to skyrocket. They will either have to shed employees or shut down their company. The Obama economic miracle continues.


31 posted on 05/26/2014 2:20:04 PM PDT by centurion316
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To: GeronL; All
"Remember when Congress made the law??"

The Founding States had made the first numbered clauses in the Constitution, Sections 1-3 of Article I, evidently a good place to hide them from the Obama administration, to clarify the following. All federal legislative powers are vested in the elected members of Congress; not in the executive or judicial branches.

32 posted on 05/26/2014 2:20:30 PM PDT by Amendment10
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To: rusty schucklefurd

The title is misleading. What the IRS can ban is employers giving employees money a voucher of sorts to go buy their own health insurance.

Employers can still give the voucher to the employer, but the employer will have to pay the payroll tax portion of it and the employee will have to pay taxes as if this were ordinary income.

Right now, employers can write off the cost of health insurance, but the employee does not count it as income.

You learn that when you read the article, but the title conveys something different.


33 posted on 05/26/2014 2:21:47 PM PDT by randita
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To: driftdiver
Ok I wont transfer them, but I will drop my companies plan.

You can't drop the plan if you employ 50 or more people.

34 posted on 05/26/2014 2:22:27 PM PDT by randita
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie

If you have 50 or more employees, you are required by the law to insure them or pay a fine. Many large companies have gotten exemptions, but after this year, the exemptions do not apply.

If you have 50 or more employees, and you do not insure them, you have to pay a fine-the article says what it is.

This ban will not permit employers to give employees tax free money to go out and get their own insurance. If money is given for this purpose, it has to be counted as income and taxed accordingly.

That’s the way I understand it.


35 posted on 05/26/2014 2:27:26 PM PDT by randita
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To: randita

well if I dont have the money I guess they’ll drop it for me.

bastards


36 posted on 05/26/2014 2:29:01 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: rusty schucklefurd

What is it called when an administration can change a law at whim without going through legislation?


37 posted on 05/26/2014 2:31:29 PM PDT by fella ("As it was before Noah so shall it be again,")
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To: rusty schucklefurd

“In a separate rule, the administration prohibits states from imposing onerous restrictions on insurance counselors, who educate consumers and help them enroll in health plans. Under the rule, states cannot establish standards that impair the counselors’ ability to help consumers or to perform other tasks required by federal law.

In January, a federal district judge in Missouri found that the state was illegally obstructing the activities of insurance counselors, including those known as navigators. The state has appealed the decision.”

In other words...O’bastard is saying states can’t require they be non-felons of good moral character.


38 posted on 05/26/2014 2:33:03 PM PDT by Beagle8U (Unions are an Affirmative Action program for Slackers! .)
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To: chris37

War Games (1983)

[after playing out all possible outcomes for Global Thermonuclear War]

Joshua: Greetings, Professor Falken.

Stephen Falken: Hello, Joshua.

Joshua: A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?


39 posted on 05/26/2014 2:33:48 PM PDT by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: all armed conservatives)
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To: rusty schucklefurd

They’re trying to prevent a wave of cancellation letters in October, that’s all.

Ending employer-based insurance is the point of Obamacare.


40 posted on 05/26/2014 2:34:04 PM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: sport

Actually in a “just world” the Progressives would be struck dead by lightning for telling so many whoppers.


41 posted on 05/26/2014 2:36:59 PM PDT by RetiredTexasVet (If you lined up the best and brightest of this administration, you'd just have a string of dim bulbs)
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To: molson209

42 posted on 05/26/2014 2:37:08 PM PDT by FreeAtlanta (Liberty or Big Government - you can't have both.)
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To: RetiredTexasVet

I won’t argue with that!


43 posted on 05/26/2014 2:43:11 PM PDT by sport
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To: randita
Employers can still give the voucher to the employer, but the employer will have to pay the payroll tax portion of it and the employee will have to pay taxes as if this were ordinary income.

Right now, employers can write off the cost of health insurance, but the employee does not count it as income.

As someone who buys their own policy from after-tax income, this is something that always irked me.

A UAW worker, for instance, gets sometimes $10-15,000 worth of benefit, tax free.

I have to make $15K just to pay my $10K worth of premiums

44 posted on 05/26/2014 2:45:15 PM PDT by digger48
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To: rusty schucklefurd
all this is going to do is force employers to lay off more workers or cut hours.

Employees will have to pay a larger % of their premium and a higher deductible. Bad thing for Obamacare is that there will be fewer people on the exchanges.

I'm not convinced that the employer mandate will ever be put in force. Now the big employers will be rushing to change their policies.

45 posted on 05/26/2014 2:46:08 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Do The Math)
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To: driftdiver
Ok I wont transfer them, but I will drop my companies plan.

The company will pay the $2,000/employee fee and can't give the employees tax free money to pay the exchange. Bad for the employee but employer saves tons of money.

46 posted on 05/26/2014 2:51:32 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Do The Math)
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To: rusty schucklefurd

More businesses will go below 50 if possible, unless he changes that too.


47 posted on 05/26/2014 2:59:09 PM PDT by grumpygresh (Democrats delenda est. New US economy: Fascism on top, Socialism on the bottom.)
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To: rusty schucklefurd
Consequently, such an arrangement fails to satisfy the market reforms and may be subject to a $100/day excise tax per applicable employee (which is $36,500 per year, per employee) under section 4980D of the Internal Revenue Code.

Sooooo this is a tax that wasn't initiated by the House of Representitives?

48 posted on 05/26/2014 3:05:17 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Do The Math)
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To: SkyDancer

LOL!! Brilliant....


49 posted on 05/26/2014 3:12:52 PM PDT by sand88
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To: the_Watchman
This move comes from the realization that the employers who do plan to “dump” their employees may choose to announce their intentions early in November.

They can still "dump" an employee into an exchange they just can't reimburse the "dumped" employee. (BTW: check it out, 75% of House and Senate employees' exchange payments are reimbursed tax free).

What will probably happen is that employees will pay the price with higher payroll deductions, higher plan deductions and higher co-payments.

50 posted on 05/26/2014 3:15:22 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Do The Math)
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