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Did the Bailout Ruin GM?
National Review ^ | May 28, 2014 | Jim Geraghty

Posted on 05/28/2014 1:39:14 AM PDT by grundle

The recalls are multiplying, and the bailout stigma remains.

You may have noticed that General Motors recalled a lot of vehicles lately.

You may not have noticed just how many separate recalls the company announced, 30 since January 1, or just how many vehicles are being recalled — 13.79 million vehicles in the U.S.

For perspective, consider that GM sold roughly 2.6 million vehicles in 2012.

... consumer-data research indicates that pickup-truck buyers skew Republican by a margin five to one, according to a 2008 survey.

Whether GM wants to admit it or not, the “Government Motors” label did serious damage to its reputation and may not wash away so quickly.

(Excerpt) Read more at nationalreview.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: automakers; bailout; generalmotors; governmentmotors
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1 posted on 05/28/2014 1:39:14 AM PDT by grundle
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To: grundle
Whether GM wants to admit it or not, the “Government Motors” label did serious damage to its reputation and may not wash away so quickly.

I seriously doubt whether the moniker "Government Motors" did serious damage to its reputation. Corporate changes made to please the current administration resulted in union officials running the company, with predictable results.

Was not the Yugo a government produced automobile?

Instead of streamlining production, improving quality, and easing off the uncompetitive added costs to pay for the sizable union benefits, reliability has fallen, pricing remains uncompetitive, and product improvements are not happening.

2 posted on 05/28/2014 2:08:22 AM PDT by olezip (Time obliterates the fictions of opinion and confirms the decisions of nature. ~ Cicero)
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To: grundle

The million dollar question... Did Jim Geraghty come to Metro Detroit and speak to those in the business ( on the QT ) that are GM-er’s, Competitors and Suppliers to get a sense as to the health of GM or is he doing a 40,000 fly-over. I have heard one 2nd hand opining but it is not for here, I need to speak to more folks before I do....


3 posted on 05/28/2014 2:40:27 AM PDT by taildragger (The E-GOP won't know what hit them, The Party of Reagan is almost here, hang tight folks....)
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To: grundle

I don’t know about anybody else, but I, for one, consider it my patriotic duty never, ever, ever to drive a Government Motors vehicle.

Not only does this mean not buying one, but it means not renting one. In fact, if I was given one (not that this would ever happen), I would sell it and give the money to charity.


4 posted on 05/28/2014 2:44:31 AM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: olezip

Government motors is the reason I will not purchase from GM.


5 posted on 05/28/2014 2:56:09 AM PDT by VaRepublican (I would propagate taglines but I don't know how. But bloggers do.)
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To: grundle

It wasn’t the bailout that ruined them, it was letting government control them that ruined them.

After all there have been bailouts before that had been barely noticeable because they didn’t come with marxist strings attached.


6 posted on 05/28/2014 3:11:48 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin.)
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To: VaRepublican

My current vehicle has 75,000 miles and has been having a few issues lately. I am seriously thinking it’s time to sell and replace. I prefer to drive it into the ground as they say, hold on for another 75,000 miles, but if I take the leap it will not, EVER be a Government Motors vehicle.


7 posted on 05/28/2014 3:16:33 AM PDT by GizzyGirl
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To: grundle

What GM quality is experiencing is what happened to British car quality when the government took them over. The workers stopped working to make good cars and started appearing at work to collect what they considered “benefits.” It was no longer a job. It was now a social program. Try this experiment today. Notice every GM truck that goes by and see how many have some random light lit on the front. I understand this is a software glitch they have been unwilling or unable to address.

Two conservative friends have recently bought GM vehicles; two Volts and an Impala. When I asked why they bought GM both said, “They practically gave them to us.”


8 posted on 05/28/2014 3:23:20 AM PDT by Gen.Blather
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To: grundle

Well, the bailout put the unions in control. And they were ruined. But, I repeat myself...


9 posted on 05/28/2014 3:30:44 AM PDT by C210N (When people fear government there is tyranny; when government fears people there is liberty)
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To: grundle

Up until 2008 I ONLY bought General Motors (I liked Pontiacs)

Since GM died in the government takeover and became government motors I will NEVER buy one again.

Ford is the only major American car company. (And I used to really hate Fords. My next vehicle will probably be a decked out Explorer)

So yes the Government Motors moniker has hurt them. fatally.


10 posted on 05/28/2014 3:34:34 AM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: GizzyGirl
I had a 2003 Pontiac Grand Prix which I owned for 7 years:

1. The wiper arms constantly came loose from the spindles. I had to keep tightening the set screw on them but it would come loose again. Nothing I did would keep those damn things locked onto the spindle.

2. The headlights would turn off for no reason. The dealer had the car for a week and replaced the multi-function turn signal arm at a cost of about $900. Less than a year later the same problem with the headlights began again. The only way I could get them to stay on would be to tilt the steering wheel to it's full up position. Try driving a car with the tilt wheel in that position.

3. The door locks constantly played with themselves. Clicking and clicking over and over again while driving. They would also click constantly even while the car was garaged all night. I'd come in in the morning and the battery would be dead because the locks activating would keep the interior lights turned on and drain the battery. Numerous visits to the dealer could never resolve this situation.

On New Years Day 2011 I dumped the miserable thing and bought a Ford F150. I will never go back to Government Motors.

11 posted on 05/28/2014 3:38:58 AM PDT by SkiKnee
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To: GizzyGirl
I miss Pontiac, my vibe has 300k on it, I know it's a Toyota matrix. I put 485k on my 92 grand am. When the bailout happened I said goodbye to GM. Like every other company in trouble, do your bankruptcy, reorganize, PAY your bills and recover. But no, to big to fail kicked in and now they are failing. My next vehicle will be a Ford. I know in some way they got some cash also but not like GM.
12 posted on 05/28/2014 3:40:46 AM PDT by VaRepublican (I would propagate taglines but I don't know how. But bloggers do.)
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To: VaRepublican
I thought that I'd always drive a US brand. However, after the slide in quality of small US cars in 2001 I switched to Hyundi mostly for the warranty. I'm on my third Accent, and they've been consistantly good about the quality, warranty, and maintenance.

I think that some Hyundis are made in the US now. Even if not, I won't leave Hyundai unless something changed dramatically. They filled the gap when there were no good options for a small US car that was well built, reasonably priced, and a good car on the road.

I did have to switch dealers once. The one I switched from had a maintenance department that couldn't resist the shennanigans to increase their profits.

13 posted on 05/28/2014 3:55:04 AM PDT by grania
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To: grania

You don’t fix what isn’t broken...


14 posted on 05/28/2014 4:02:42 AM PDT by VaRepublican (I would propagate taglines but I don't know how. But bloggers do.)
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To: SkiKnee
Oh my gosh, your car sounds like my first new car ever... it was a Pontiac Sunbird and the headlights would dim and the radio would die every time I turned on the windshield wipers. It was before there was a lemon law, otherwise I am sure I could have dumped it. Instead my husband kept it charged in the garage all the time because it would be dead, for no reason and I was stuck everywhere, all the time. We dumped it pretty quick, so sad... my first new car ever.

Later I heard it caught fire down on Rt. 7 — to this day I feel sorry for the person who bought it from us, but at least I can say with full honesty that we told them it had electrical issues that nobody could figure out. They bought it anyway... car was new, clean, cute... but it was a nightmare!

15 posted on 05/28/2014 4:13:14 AM PDT by GizzyGirl
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To: grundle

My business partner always had GM pickups. He switched to Ford and has bought 2 new F150’s in the last 3 years. Never GM again for him or me. Nothing but Ford’s in my family. But I do have an LS3 in my buggy.


16 posted on 05/28/2014 4:21:17 AM PDT by US_MilitaryRules (Did you just get off the short bus or what?)
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To: grundle
the “Government Motors” label did serious damage to its reputation and may not wash away so quickly.

For a great many people, including me, the damage was permanent. We will never buy an Obama Motors anything ever again.
17 posted on 05/28/2014 4:22:10 AM PDT by ZX12R (Never forget the heroes of Benghazi, who were abandoned to their deaths by Obama)
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To: grundle

The best way to kill something is pouring money on it.


18 posted on 05/28/2014 4:23:22 AM PDT by Born to Conserve
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To: VaRepublican
re: My Hyundai and "you don't fix what isn't broken".

FWIW, this service department would try to charge for things covered by the warranty, play games with using cheap substitutes while charging for Hyundai parts etc. The dealership I switched to is excellent.

19 posted on 05/28/2014 4:26:28 AM PDT by grania
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To: grundle
Here's my situation:

...I'm originally from Michigan, and GM was both a source of jobs to family, gave my dad's company business, and I worked there as a co-op through college...

...I have bought (with the exception of one Ford) only GM vehicles for the past 25 years...

...I have a "GM Mastercard"...

...I currently own two GM vehicles - one 14 years old, one 5 years old - that are doing just fine....

...I was even willing to grant some (SOME) forgiveness over the "Government Motors" issue...

BUT I WON'T BUY ANOTHER GM CAR. Why?

Because GM, during the Winter Olympics this year, ran ads 24/7 making my Chevy Traverse the "official car of gay marriage".

Damn them. Damn GM to Hell.

20 posted on 05/28/2014 4:28:09 AM PDT by Yossarian
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To: grundle

Nothing but FORDs in our household. I told my kids that if they ever owned a gm I would disown them. They think I’m serious and that’s what matters.


21 posted on 05/28/2014 4:46:34 AM PDT by HANG THE EXPENSE (Life's tough.It's tougher when you're stupid.)
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To: grundle

After watching how the local GM dealer in La Mesa, California treated my parents on a recall of a ‘72 Caprice for a piece of plastic in the carb (it took the THREE trips to replace a piece about the size of a hearing aid and 10 hours each trip), I sore I would never own a GM vehicle. And I have not despite being offered good deals on some classics.

What ever GM is suffering from is systemic and goes back decades, probably to Durant. Hopefully when the fold up shop in the near future because it will be easier to go out of business than settle law suits, their management will never find employment again.


22 posted on 05/28/2014 4:59:52 AM PDT by pikachu (After Monday and Tuesday, even the calender goes W T F !)
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To: John O

My father and I have been buying GM since the 50’s. Never again! We just purchased a Kia Optima. The car is better than a GM product in every way!


23 posted on 05/28/2014 4:59:59 AM PDT by Dr. Ursus
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To: GizzyGirl

Stopped buying American in the 70 s when it started turning out products that were produced to break to keep itself in business

I saw the junk and how it performed

Too bad others didnt do the same and crush the unions that did this to those companies and the city that cradled them

Government takeover made its trajectory intensify

Just my observation

Same will happen to medicine

Don’t just blame their boy Obama

I buy only from one company and it is not American too bad

Though ford ( not taken over) makes a nice truck. It’s costomers would not put up with an inferior product


24 posted on 05/28/2014 5:13:56 AM PDT by stanne
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To: grundle

Had GM for the past 25 years. I love my new Honda Touring. Why anybody would buy GM after Obama gave the stock to the unions is beyond my comprehension. I didn’t even “look” at GM during my purchasing process. Nothing owned/run by the government works...and it holds true for Government Motors.


25 posted on 05/28/2014 5:24:58 AM PDT by ThePatriotsFlag ("There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide." - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: stanne

Ford makes good product, but the money goes to the UAW, and that is why I can’t and won’t buy a Ford, either.


26 posted on 05/28/2014 5:25:53 AM PDT by DCBryan1 (No realli, moose bytes can be quite nasti!! (Keeper of the Sick Individuals pinglist))
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To: John O

In my line of work, I buy GM/Chev because nobody can touch the Duramax and I need 3/4 or 1 ton trucks. The Fords diesel isn’t even in the same category. For a gasoline vehicle, I’m sure Ford is fine, but if I was doing that I’d be going Toyota.


27 posted on 05/28/2014 5:42:13 AM PDT by Bulwyf
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To: ThePatriotsFlag

Toyota is really starting to annoy me, I need them to make a 1 ton diesel pickup, stat!


28 posted on 05/28/2014 5:46:54 AM PDT by Bulwyf
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To: DCBryan1

Not here either. My friend had a Torino, a 1973, I think. Earlier than the famed Clint Eastwood model.

It was a great car. I can’t think of anything they’ve built of worth since.

I can’t really talk cars, but I do appreciate a good one.

But you could see the complete deterioration of customer care around that time.

All the rest was predictable. To me, anyway.


29 posted on 05/28/2014 5:52:58 AM PDT by stanne
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To: grundle

GM should have been broken up, just as any company that’s “Too big to fail.”


30 posted on 05/28/2014 5:55:37 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: grundle

The unions and lazy management ruined GM. The bailout simply kept a failed company going and prevented anyone from fixing it in a meaningful way.


31 posted on 05/28/2014 5:57:36 AM PDT by Opinionated Blowhard ("When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.")
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To: SkiKnee

I had a GMC Jimmy that was a lemmon. I should have taken it back to Morraine in pieces and dumped it out in front of the plant with a sign, “Your dealers can’t fix it amymore.”


32 posted on 05/28/2014 6:29:49 AM PDT by OrioleFan (Republicans believe every day is July 4th, Democrats believe every day is April 15th.)
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To: grundle

Not the bailout. Unions.


33 posted on 05/28/2014 6:34:19 AM PDT by Wyatt's Torch
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To: VaRepublican

My wifes 11 yr. old van was about to give its all so I just bought a 2013 Nissan Murano at an out of town Nissan dealer and couldn’t be happier.

Local Dodge dealer salesman where I had been looking at used cars tried to push Dodge and assured me Dodge had all changed since the bailout. Yeah right, you keep shoveling tons of manure in the hopes that something good will grow bud...

I own two Mercury’s and I like Ford but they are just too expensive. Dodge and GM wasn’t even on my radar and will not be in the future.


34 posted on 05/28/2014 10:51:58 AM PDT by sarge83
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To: grundle

Short answer: NO, GM was ruined long before the bailout... all the bailout did was ensure they could keep acting like they did before it.


35 posted on 05/28/2014 10:54:35 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: HamiltonJay

I curse the day they did the original Chrysler bailout in the 70s, it set a horrible precedent that government was now expected to bail out any enterprise that was “too big to fail.”


36 posted on 05/28/2014 10:55:36 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

I don’t go that far, the reality is, that had GM and Chrysler gone bust the effect on the supply chain in the US would have been so massive that even Ford could not have built a vehicle, because they would not have been able to get parts because the overwhelming majority of suppliers would have been out of business in short order as well.

I don’t have a problem with the recognition that letting these companies fail would have cause catastrophic ripples through the US economy.... What I find disgusting is that they didn’t force GM through a legitimate BK and that they didn’t make GM and its management and unions put anything on the line to get the $$ they got. They were effectively given a blank check with no real consequence if they failed. So needless to say, nothing really changed at GM.

Chrysler on the other hand was given loans, and so they had to prove their right to exist.. GM was given a pass. This is part of the reason Chrysler has come back and GM is the same fustercluck it always was.

A very good interview with the CEO of Chrysler, well worth the time to watch if you are truly interested in facts and not political spin left or right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjX5LnM8osI#t=367


37 posted on 05/28/2014 11:08:01 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: sarge83

Watch the following... GM hasn’t changed a lick, but Chrysler has changed significantly, they are not remotely the same company that was being driven into the ground by investment bankers who had no idea how to manufacture.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjX5LnM8osI#t=367


38 posted on 05/28/2014 11:09:42 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: sarge83

Watch the following... GM hasn’t changed a lick, but Chrysler has changed significantly, they are not remotely the same company that was being driven into the ground by investment bankers who had no idea how to manufacture.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjX5LnM8osI#t=367


39 posted on 05/28/2014 11:09:42 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: All


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40 posted on 05/28/2014 11:09:51 AM PDT by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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To: grania

The Koreans brought value and reliability, something sorely lacking in the US Market since the Japanese brands became premium brands... they used to make abject crap, (hyundai excel anyone?) but they made a concerted effort to build a quality product and brand... Kia/Hyundai are now mainstays in the value minded consumer (Kia in particular by offering as standard what most others sold as options).


41 posted on 05/28/2014 11:13:03 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: pikachu

GMs problems are systemic and go back at least 4-5 decades. Had they been forced to prove their right to exist they might have changed, but they were given a complete pass, so to expect that anything significant has changed at GM since before the bailout is foolish.

Push em through a real BK, make them take loans not bailouts to exist, force them to risk starving on the vine and they will change, until that happens its nothing but window dressing.


42 posted on 05/28/2014 11:15:39 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: HamiltonJay

Somebody else would have purchased the assets of GM and Chrysler, and I believe that would have mitigated any supply chain impacts.


43 posted on 05/28/2014 11:24:20 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: olezip

Blaming the Union for GM’s systemic problems is foolish... GM’s problems are 4-5 decades old, and bailing them out instead of forcing them to change meant they would keep doing the same old crap... and that’s exactly what they did.

GM didn’t have to prove it had a right to exist, it had nothing to lose, so it didn’t change. Its the same GM today as it was before the bailout.. same people doing the same jobs, making the same decisions etc etc etc.

GM got bailed out, Chrysler got conditional loans.. GM could and can screw up all it wants because its got no skin in the game, Chrysler had to sink or swim, and it has come back strong.


44 posted on 05/28/2014 11:34:59 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: dfwgator

You are foolish then, Chrysler would have been parted for scrap had it not been given loans from treasury, period, and no one was going to acquire GM’s assets and liabilities out of BK in a timely enough manner to have kept it operational and not had the supply chain collapse.

Those two things are facts, not ideological dogma.


45 posted on 05/28/2014 11:37:24 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: HamiltonJay

Then you might as well admit then these companies are in fact Government companies, because if they fail, the taxpayer is on the hook for them.

But then again, does Government even remember that we have anti-trust laws, anymore?


46 posted on 05/28/2014 11:39:43 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: HamiltonJay

When you have produced crap for 50 yrs. you build a reputation that is hard to undo. They took bailout money so they are persona non grata, just like GM to me.


47 posted on 05/28/2014 11:43:23 AM PDT by sarge83
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To: sarge83

If you don’t understand the fundamental difference between what went on with GM and what went on with Chrysler, then there is no point in trying to have any further discussion.

You can cling to your ideological dogma, or you can get informed.

Whether I agree or not with how Treasury handled any of this is irrelevant, there is a huge difference between we will loan you money with you personally signing on the dotted line for it, and we will give you a huge cash influx.

Chrysler was given loans, not cash, it had to fix itself or die, GM was given cash with no need to fix itself... and guess which one has fixed its issues and paid back its loans? And which one is still in the toilet and cost the taxpayers more than $11 BILLION in losses?

GM didn’t change because it didn’t have to, Chrysler changed because it had no choice. GM will NEVER change until it is put in a position where it has no choice, and the bailout made sure it had a choice. And it chose to keep doing what it was doing, same people, same culture, same process... You can only change a 40-50 year old broken culture by assuring it that starvation is a possibility... GM never faced starvation... Chrysler was 1 month away from being on the scrap heap for years while it fixed itself, and it fixed itself.

If you think GM and Chrysler are the same, or that how they were treated and dealt with during the bailout, you need to get a bit more informed.

Chrysler was so grossly mismanaged by investment bankers who had no idea how to manufacture, that its a wonder they hadn’t collapsed sooner. GM was grossly mismanaged by arrogance and graft for longer than I have walked this planet.... They drank so much of their own kool aid for so long they knew nothing else.


48 posted on 05/28/2014 12:01:18 PM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: grundle

I quit buying Gubbermint motors cars 10 years ago, when I worked in their supply chain back in michigan, and realized what they were all about.

the bailout only served to cement the fact that I despise them.

the recalls? I am not suprised they tried to cover up their crap.

the future? Let ‘em burn. the chickens done come home to roost.

my parents....lifelong GM owners....just bought a brand new Hyundai....

For myself....my garage is full of Toyotas


49 posted on 05/28/2014 12:10:01 PM PDT by QualityMan (Don't Tread on Me)
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To: dfwgator

Again, you are trying to argue dogma, not reality.

GM was indeed a complete government company because the government violated its own laws to save it in a way to pay political capital to folks.

Saving GM and Chrysler may be ideologically impure in the minds of some folks here, but from the pragmatic reality of the effects of them collapsing would have had on the overall economy, not to mention the manufacturing capability of the US as a whole, an argument for intervention to help can be made and made strongly and coherently.

If you believe watching the entire auto industry in the US collapse, because that’s exactly what would have happened, We aren’t talking just GM and Chrysler, we are talking nearly ever single part supplier in the nation would have been out of business inside of a few months, Ford literally would not have been able to build a car had this happened, those assembly plants for Toyota, Hyundai, Kia etc would have all ground to a halt as well as the supply chain literally collapsed under them.

That’s a huge issue, and a national one, and while your ideological dogma may say, let it happen the world will be better afterwards, that’s a 5 year global depression you are signing the US and World Economy up for to prove your ideological point, that like it or not, no sane leader, regardless of political stripe would sign up for.

So, something to save them was going to happen. If you think otherwise, you are just delusional. And no, it didn’t happen to save any unions... though sadly, there is no doubt that once a bailout was decided upon, folks did use it to exercise political pull and push to do some very nefarious things because like all parasites, if an opportunity happens to present itself they will take advantage of it.

Now, GM got a flat out bailout, treasury literally gave them cash in hand with no obligation to pay back... they got “stock” in a company that they later sold for an $11 Billion loss. So, GM got a complete pass, they avoided a true BK, their creditors were screwed over, and they could keep on doing what they had always been doing.. and guess what? They did.

Chrysler was given loans it had to repay, and so it had to change or die and guess what? of the two, which one do you think changed? Which one paid every penny back to the taxpayers? and is now a stronger, changed and better company?

Again, you can argue that nothing should have been done, but that’s just political ideological dogma, the facts on the ground were that like it or not, no politician was going to let a complete collapse of manufacturing occur. You may like to think they should have, and may not have liked how they handled it, but the reality is, no politician of any stripe was going to let that happen... your options were down to nationalization of them or subsidizing them.... Then the manner in which they would be subsidized.

Chrysler got a subsidization, GM got a temporary nationalization as well as a subsidization.


50 posted on 05/28/2014 12:16:26 PM PDT by HamiltonJay
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