Skip to comments.Pope Francis' unfriendly visit
Posted on 05/28/2014 5:03:35 PM PDT by Former Fetus
Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu and Foreign Minister Avigdor Liberman were right when they blamed the noxious anti-Israel incitement rampant in Europe for Saturday's murderous shooting attack at the Jewish Museum in Brussels
Pope Benedict XVI was perceived as a friend of Israel, despite his childhood membership in the Hitler Youth. His opposition to Islam's rejection of reason, eloquently expressed at his speech at the University of Regensburg in 2006, positioned him as a religious champion of reason, individual responsibility and law Judaism's primary contributions to humanity.
His predecessor Pope John Paul II was less willing to confront Islamic violence. But his opposition to Communism made him respect Israel as freedom's outpost in the Middle East. John Paul's visit to Israel in 2000 was in some ways an historic gesture of friendship to the Jewish people of Israel.
Both Benedict and John Paul II were outspoken champions of the Second Vatican Council and maintained doctrinal allegiance to the Church's rejection of anti-Judaism, including the charge of deicide, and its denunciation of replacement theology.
Alas, the Golden Age of Catholic-Jewish relations seems to have come to an end during Francis's visit to the Promised Land this week.
In one of his blander pronouncements during the papal visit, Netanyahu mentioned on Monday that Jesus spoke Hebrew. There was nothing incorrect about Netanyahu's statement. Jesus was after all, an Israeli Jew.
But Francis couldn't take the truth. So he indelicately interrupted his host, interjecting, "Aramaic."
Netanyahu was probably flustered. True, at the time, educated Jews spoke and wrote in Aramaic. And Jesus was educated. But the language of the people was Hebrew. And Jesus preached to the people, in Hebrew.
Netanyahu responded, "He spoke Aramaic, but he knew Hebrew."
(Excerpt) Read more at jewishworldreview.com ...
Also, I just saw THIS.
It may not mean anything concerning our salvation, but I find it fascinating. And an encouragement in my attempts to learn Hebrew!
Hey, the new Pope’s a communist. Conservative Catholics are trying desperately to rationalize his actions and words, but his actions and words are clear.
Pope Frances is unclear that Jesus was a Jew?
Which conservative Catholics are acting desperately about this?
Quote from the article-
The Palestinians and their Islamic and Western supporters de-Judaize Jesus and proclaim him Palestinian in order to libel the Jews and criminalize the Jewish state.
I think Christians too de judaize the Messiah of Israel and don’t bat an eye.
December 25 , with no scriptural evidence, and easter, with no link to the Feast of Passover, the actual feast day the Messiah was killed, are man made holy day substitutes for what the Messiah of Israel is proclaimed to ‘fulfill’ or will fulfill at His return...
Almost like a greco roman latin savior in substitution for the Messiah of Israel..
But netanyahu accepts the premise so .....
Yup. His mortal upbringing probably taught him some Latin as well, without having to reach in His back pocket for His "Mr. Creator of Everything" card....
Good post. Pretty much says it all
Why Netanyahu does not just toss this flaming rectum out of Israel is beyond me.
I wish he would.
The reactions to this exchange are so wild and overdone that they seem really crazy to me.
The language of "the people" was not Hebrew. They spoke Aramaic. They studied Targumim - Aramaic translations of the Hebrew Scriptures - in their synagogues. They named their children Aramaic names. They wrote their marriage contracts in Aramaic.
Hebrew to a 1st century Jew in Judaea was like Latin to an 18th century Italian.
Every educated man knew it thoroughly, even uneducated men knew prayers and sayings in it, but it was not the language of daily conversation.
BTW, one day the waiter at a Chinese restaurant asked me what did eggs and bunny rabbits had to do with Easter. He seemed very serious, so I thought about it for a little while, and I answered "nothing at all". He was impressed by the honest answer and therefore willing to listen to anything else I wanted to tell him about Jesus!
That’s because they are crazy, for example the reaction of the mental patient known as “the anti-mahdi.”
Agreed. Many folks seem overly attracted to pedantic drama. Kind of like a being pecked to death by chickens or living in a barrel filled with rats.
Actually there are two links in the post (#3). Hard to tell which one makes a better argument for Hebrew.
I happen to agree with her. This pope has done nothing but appease muslims and preach socialism. And I don’t really care if some are offended truth is still truth
I think this Pope has a bit of a problem with impulse control. An idea comes into his head had comes right out his mouth.
Was really that important to him to make the point that Jesus spoke Aramaic or could he not help himself and just blurted it out.
That said, you cannot blame the Israelis for feeling slighted after the wall business, calling Abbas a man of peace, and then correcting Netanyahu.
It is rude to publicly embarrass others in this way, to step over them and say, "Look at me, how much smarter I am!"
I had been doing that my entire life until I realized what a horse's ass I was being.
So he’s pro-Palestinian, like our Dear Leader, his foreign minister and most of the intelligentsia?
You saw and heard him. Draw your own conclusions.
I am still trying to figure out this pope. So far, I am not real thrilled with him. But, I will continue to pray for those brothers and sisters of the RC church, as they must be feeling somewhat confused, as well. Unfortunately, everything the pope does is so public, and this pope makes sure to get as much limelight as possible. In some ways, he is like Clinton and Obama. Always have to be on stage somewhere. I liked the ones who spent more time in meditation, myself.
Sure seems that way
So true. The eggs and bunnies are pagan. Some fertility god or something.
I think in layman's terms it's called diarrhea of the mouth. It is just in such sharp contrast to B-16, I just wish that this Pope would be less spontaneous, and weigh his words/pronouncements more carefully before he speaks.
Anyone who has read the gospels knows that Jesus stood up in the synagogue and read from the Scriptures. In Hebrew, of course.
It is an outrage that the Pope would interrupt Netanyahu that way.
An ongoing disaster.
Eggs and bunny rabbits have plenty to do with Easter. They are both symbols of abundant life, and fertility. That’s why there are bunny rabbits at the foot of the Cross in Medieval and Renaissance paintings.
The Pope himself explained why he insisted on not living in the papal apartment. It did NOT have to do with “luxury.” The papal apartment is not luxurious. He said it was because he is an extreme extrovert, and cannot stand not being around a lot of people.
I think he’s telling the truth. He is an extreme extrovert. And he is impulsive. And he does not think. He is a conventional lefty 1970’s cleric.
What they do show is that Lindsey and a handful of others who want the vernacular of 1st century Judaea to have been Hebrew are willing to twist any fact to fit their thesis.
Of course Paul knew Hebrew - as he said repeatedly, he was an elite student of the rabbinical schools.
Every Jewish scholar of the Middle Ages had a deep knowledge of Hebrew as well, but they didn't speak Hebrew as their vernacular either.
Paul's native tongue was Greek.
Of course the New Testament has plenty of Greek written with extensive structural similarities to Hebrew syntax - because Aramaic has an almost identical syntactical structure to Hebrew and Judaeans who spoke Greek as a second language imported Aramaic sentence structure into their Greek.
When Jesus is quoted in the New Testament in His vernacular, He speaks Aramaic: "Talitha cumi", "Eli Eli lama sabachthani" - the last phrase being a direct translation into Aramaic of the Hebrew Psalm.
If everyone in Jerusalem was so fluent in Hebrew, why did He speak the words of Scripture in Aramaic translation?
No, Dave W, there is zero evidence that Hebrew was the vernacular of 1st century Jerusalem.
Go back to sleep now.
Exactly! But they are not Christian symbols, they are pagan and have been used by Christians without regard to their origin.
While we are discussing pagan symbols, what do y'all think about May poles? Besides the fact that May Day is International Workers Day ( meaning socialist/ communist day) mixed with pagan spring rites, I have never liked seeing kids dancing around the pole. It makes me think of Asherah poles and Canaanite worship. Oh, how must the Tempter be laughing every time Christian kids dance around an Asherah pole!
The thread seems to focus largely on the Aramaic/Hebrew comment, which could simply be an off the cuff comment.
Amongst other issues Glick raises, the photo-op at the security fence. The choice of location for prayer, with grafitti comparing the West Bank to the Warsaw Ghetto, problematic. As well as visible grafitti endorsing the BDS movement. I suppose reverential prayer for a wall that has saved thousands of lives isn't inappropriate, but I doubt that was the intent, and the choice of visible grafitti overwhelmed it if it was.
And the ongoing de-Judaizisation of Israel. A Hebrew speaking Jesus is worth comment, but the ongoing palestinian commentary that Jesus was a palestinian, not a Jew, taking replacement theology in an odd direction, not worth commentary.
Not mentioned in the article, the invitation to Abbas and Peres to come to the Vatican to pray for peace. Peres, an odd choice. Invite a figurehead with no political power who will then be out of office, rather than a member of of the government involved in the process. If he doesn't want to socialize with Netanyahu, invite Livni. She's not as far left as Peres, but almost. Personally I think most of this is consistant with a far left world view, which paints palestinians as the downtrodden and Israel as the opressor.
“Every educated man knew it thoroughly, even uneducated men knew prayers and sayings in it, but it was not the language of daily conversation”
First of all, it is (and has been since Mt. Sinai) a requirement of Judaism that all males write at least one scroll of the Torah. This mitzvah resulted in near universal Hebrew literacy among my people, which, in turn, resulted in literacy in a number of other languages, a fact that was commented on by Greek, Roman, and other historians. Indeed, it is why common Jewish people ended up in relatively high places throughout the Roman empire -— we were the accountants and bookkeepers of the Empire.
I’ve personally seen hundreds (probably thousands) of mundane items from the Herodian periods. Hebrew was certainly used in commerce (I saw shipping manifests), and even things like public bathrooms (”men” and “women” signs have been around for a long time), street signs, and more solemn things like gravestones and public monuments.
So, yes, I am sure Aramaic (a pigeon language) was common, just as Yiddish is (or was) very common, as was Ladino.
But Hebrew was certainly equally and widely understood and used in common parlance.
Thank you for reminding us of the real issue raised in the article by Ms. Glick. That’s far more relevant to the world today than whether Jesus spoke Hebrew or Aramaic. I apologize for chasing rabbits!
I have been observing the biblical calendar for going on two years now (just finishing up the first month of His year- only by His grace do I even know anything about it)
And it is so contrary to the solar based Gregorian.. sadly, Jews use the Gregorian and their own calculated calendar as opposed to the one in Scripture..
We spend so much time with our wall calendars and small phones and they tell us the day and time, we don’t use what He gave us - sun, moon and stars, to tell time..
And it is not observed by Jews ( except maybe two months in a year-and they mess it up with postponement rules and suspensions) that I can’t really believe why I had this revealed to me, a gentile believer with no business knowing all I know today...amazing grace indeed!
But it isn’t a calendar the world can observe... for instance, His Sabbaths were on the gregorian thursdays for four weeks in a row in this month...most folks are working on those days- and they change as the sun and moon and stars move through our sky...
But it certainly is a calendar, if chosen, that resonates with me when I hear the command, ‘come out of her, my people’....
Revelation reads like the present tense..
My comment got cut off...
I also wanted to add that I think maybe nonbelievers would be even more willing to research the calendar of creation than any believer engrained in the society and not willing to rock their boat...
and that would include Jews who maybe could see their messiah in the calendar but they may be too comfortable in the world’s systems too..
But I may be one of very few who thinks this ‘crazy looking’world makes perfect sense...
They are Christian symbols now.