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Catholic Bishops support new gun control bill for Massachusetts
Masslive.com ^ | 05/29/2014 | Jeanette DeForge

Posted on 05/29/2014 10:38:28 AM PDT by aimhigh

Bishop Timothy A. McDonnell, leader of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Springfield, has joined with the three other bishops in Massachusetts to support a new comprehensive state bill aimed at combating gun violence in the state.

The Massachusetts Catholic Conference released a statement on behalf of the four Roman Catholic bishops in the state in reaction to the House’s new bill unveiled Tuesday. The other three leaders who signed the statement are Cardinal Sean O’Malley, archbishop of Boston; Rev. Robert J. McManus, bishop of Worcester and Rev. George W. Coleman, bishop of Fall River, according to Mark E. Dupont, spokesman for the Springfield diocese.

(Excerpt) Read more at masslive.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; US: Massachusetts
KEYWORDS: banglist; catholic

1 posted on 05/29/2014 10:38:28 AM PDT by aimhigh
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To: aimhigh

What “gun violence” is in Mass. that this legislation will prevent?


2 posted on 05/29/2014 10:42:31 AM PDT by grobdriver (Where is Wilson Blair when you need him?)
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To: aimhigh

Now if they could just expend 1/5th of that energy releasing statements (actions would be better but we have to start somewhere) about pro-abortion, so-called Catholic politicians...


3 posted on 05/29/2014 10:45:52 AM PDT by mikey_hates_everything
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To: mikey_hates_everything
AMEN! John PaulII ordered Bishops and clergy to stay out of politics IIRC. Massachusetts Bishops have a lot of nerve. Yes I am a Catholic.
4 posted on 05/29/2014 10:50:01 AM PDT by defconw (Well now what?)
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To: mikey_hates_everything

Seriously.


5 posted on 05/29/2014 10:51:45 AM PDT by Claud
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To: aimhigh

Take them on a tour of the towns of Lexington and Concord...


6 posted on 05/29/2014 10:53:05 AM PDT by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - they want to die for islam and we want to kill them)
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To: defconw

The sooner we get a crop of bishops that care more about the Faith transmitted to the Apostles and not the faxes transmitted by the DNC the better off we will all be.

Of course, by that point we’ll probably be fed to the lions, but hey, it won’t be the first time.


7 posted on 05/29/2014 10:55:06 AM PDT by Claud
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To: aimhigh
More clericalism. Substituting their public policy opinions for sound teaching on faith and morals.

"L'eglise, c'est moi."

8 posted on 05/29/2014 10:56:45 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Stone cold sober, as a matter of fact.")
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To: aimhigh

The Catholic church favors gun control, illegals and meets with and provides communion to abortion-loving politicians.
What’s not to like?
Everything.


9 posted on 05/29/2014 10:56:53 AM PDT by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: all armed conservatives)
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To: Claud

I hear you. I am on another thread getting flack for calling the Obama’s trash. WTH?


10 posted on 05/29/2014 10:59:17 AM PDT by defconw (Well now what?)
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To: grobdriver
What “gun violence” is in Mass. that this legislation will prevent?

Gun violence against Catholic Bishops?

11 posted on 05/29/2014 11:05:29 AM PDT by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: aimhigh

When to comes to combat, I know of one Catholic priest getting a Silver Star.


12 posted on 05/29/2014 11:05:36 AM PDT by OldNavyVet (Looking forward to November elections.)
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To: defconw

They are not in compliance with the Catechism on this.

And they would certainly be better off signing statements on antiabortion concerns.

Sigh.

from the Catechism:

If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful. . . . Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one’s own life than of another’s.66
2265 Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others. The defense of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm. For this reason, those who legitimately hold authority also have the right to use arms to repel aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their responsibility.

2266 The efforts of the state to curb the spread of behavior harmful to people’s rights and to the basic rules of civil society correspond to the requirement of safeguarding the common good. Legitimate public authority has the right and duty to inflict punishment proportionate to the gravity of the offense. Punishment has the primary aim of redressing the disorder introduced by the offense. When it is willingly accepted by the guilty party, it assumes the value of expiation. Punishment then, in addition to defending public order and protecting people’s safety, has a medicinal purpose: as far as possible, it must contribute to the correction of the guilty party.67

2267 Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.

If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people’s safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.

Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity “are very rare, if not practically nonexistent.”68

Intentional homicide

2268 The fifth commandment forbids direct and intentional killing as gravely sinful. The murderer and those who cooperate voluntarily in murder commit a sin that cries out to heaven for vengeance.69

Infanticide,70 fratricide, parricide, and the murder of a spouse are especially grave crimes by reason of the natural bonds which they break. Concern for eugenics or public health cannot justify any murder, even if commanded by public authority.

2269 The fifth commandment forbids doing anything with the intention of indirectly bringing about a person’s death. The moral law prohibits exposing someone to mortal danger without grave reason, as well as refusing assistance to a person in danger.

The acceptance by human society of murderous famines, without efforts to remedy them, is a scandalous injustice and a grave offense. Those whose usurious and avaricious dealings lead to the hunger and death of their brethren in the human family indirectly commit homicide, which is imputable to them.71

Unintentional killing is not morally imputable. But one is not exonerated from grave offense if, without proportionate reasons, he has acted in a way that brings about someone’s death, even without the intention to do so.

Abortion

2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.72


13 posted on 05/29/2014 11:09:53 AM PDT by stanne
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To: tumblindice

It’s not true. The Church, the Catechism states, the right to self defense is vital. It also states that to allow a foreign invasion depletes a nation’s resources and renders it unable to provide for its own poor and the immigrants themselves.

When men act against the rules of the Church, and when the clergy does so, they are acting as outside the Church as they did when they molested kids.


14 posted on 05/29/2014 11:13:06 AM PDT by stanne
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To: stanne

Seems pretty clear to me but Pope Francis is no John Paul II.


15 posted on 05/29/2014 11:15:32 AM PDT by defconw (Well now what?)
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To: stanne
When men act against the rules of the Church, and when the clergy does so, they are acting as outside the Church as they did when they molested kids.

While I disagree with the Bishops on this vehemently, it only took 14 posts for you to throw that totally irrelevant statement in.

16 posted on 05/29/2014 11:16:18 AM PDT by frogjerk (We are conservatives. Not libertarians, not "fiscal conservatives", not moderates)
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To: Alex Murphy

They are outside the Catechism on this; which is to say, outside of their ecclesial competence. Sheer clericalism.


17 posted on 05/29/2014 11:22:38 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Stone cold sober, as a matter of fact.")
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To: frogjerk

How do you explain to people that this is not representative of the Church?


18 posted on 05/29/2014 11:25:14 AM PDT by stanne
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To: aimhigh

Caesar=>Caesar...God=>God!


19 posted on 05/29/2014 11:31:24 AM PDT by Don Corleone ("Oil the gun..eat the cannoli. Take it to the Mattress.")
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To: Claud
The Catholic Bishops in Mass are a wing of the Rat Party, Cushing was the most disgusting example.

I watched O’Mally speak at an anti gay marriage rally after Don Fedder on the Common. I was not impressed.

20 posted on 05/29/2014 11:42:51 AM PDT by Little Bill (EVICT Queen Jean)
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To: aimhigh

The Bishops have the advantage of believing you DO have an obligation to be a victim.

Fortunately, the Second Amendment anticipated the importance of the citizens having the ability to discourage tyranny.


21 posted on 05/29/2014 11:48:55 AM PDT by G Larry (Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)
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To: aimhigh

What are these jerks bellyaching about? It’s just about impossible for a law-abiding citizen to get a hand gun in Massatwoshits!


22 posted on 05/29/2014 11:50:55 AM PDT by kenmcg (b)
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To: stanne
How do you explain to people that this is not representative of the Church?

"Where the bishop is, there is the Catholic Church"

23 posted on 05/29/2014 12:03:16 PM PDT by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: tumblindice
The Catholic church favors gun control, illegals and meets with and provides communion to abortion-loving politicians.

You forgot wealth transfer. They're big on that too.

24 posted on 05/29/2014 12:33:42 PM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: Alex Murphy

Wherever you got that from I never heard it. Have a lot of Catholicism in my family, education, history, community and background and ...

The fact is that the Church includes three entities: the Magisterium, the Bible, and Tradition.

None of this teaches that clergy telling the government how to change its laws, especially in opposition to what the Catechism states (Magesterium) and the same tenet applies to other activities taken on by people within the Church acting in ways that are not sanctioned by the Church

Humans are not saints and they can always err

But the Church is not the people in it, making it up as they go along

So, no, incorrect


25 posted on 05/29/2014 12:43:31 PM PDT by stanne
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To: Little Bill
The Catholic Bishops in Mass are a wing of the Rat Party,

I think most of the Bishops in the US are aligned with the Rat Party.

Yes, I'm Catholic, and I am disgusted by some of the pronouncements from the USCCB. My former Archbishop only spoke out about the Terry Schiavo case when I called the Archdiocese, and the Communications Office wrongly assumed that I was a reporter.

The Archbishop before him said his hands were tied when a "Catholic" University in San Antonio hosted a Pornographic Art Show featuring Angels having oral sex. It was only when wealthy non Catholic donors to the Archdiocese spoke out that he shut it down.

A heretical Nun was slated to speak at a Conference, and the promoters refused to take her off the list of Speakers. It was only when I contacted the non-hertical speakers who threatened to withdraw if Heretic Nun was slated to speak, that she was removed from the Conference.

It gets old, and I wish they would stick to Faith and Morals, and quit endorsing policies that cause Chaos.

26 posted on 05/29/2014 12:46:46 PM PDT by sockmonkey (Of course I didn't read the article. After all, this is Free Republic.)
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To: stanne
When men act against the rules of the Church, and when the clergy does so, they are acting as outside the Church as they did when they molested kids.

CAIR makes the same argument when a muslim kills. It's not true Islam. Islam is a peaceful religion. When the official clergy are misbehaving, it's really hard to successfully distance the church. I stopped making excuses for the bad behavior of other humans. Root them out as you would with a weed in the grass. There will be more. Lather, rinse, repeat.

27 posted on 05/29/2014 12:52:50 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: stanne
Wherever you got that from I never heard it. Have a lot of Catholicism in my family, education, history, community and background and ...

ROTFL! It's a famous quote from Ignatius of Antioch. You have a lot of Catholicism in your education, you say?

28 posted on 05/29/2014 12:52:56 PM PDT by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: G Larry

Ok. I’ll paste this again. It’s from the catechism, the constitution of the church, and, no , we are not living in post catechism times. Humans can stray from the rules leading others to do so but it is not right when it happens. The American bishops say what up assert they are saying, yes. But the church says the following:

2265 Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others. The defense of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm. For this reason, those who legitimately hold authority also have the right to use arms to repel aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their responsibility.”

And the Church would not impose itself onto our constitution to assert whom they choose should be authority. That the 2nd amendment states that individuals have that authority is unquestioned


29 posted on 05/29/2014 12:57:42 PM PDT by stanne
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Comment #30 Removed by Moderator

To: stanne

And that entry in the Catechism has its roots in Romans:

Paraphrased:

“It is good to fear the sword of the state, for it has its purpose.”


31 posted on 05/29/2014 1:30:44 PM PDT by G Larry (Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)
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To: Alex Murphy

‘A famous quote’ makes up cults and sects but not the 2000 year old Church

Here’s your famous quote from the site which includes a long list of material to “avoid, as these letters are spuriously attributed to St Ignatius’. And, I might add, all of the Vatican approved such documents and sittings, such as apparitions of saints and angels are as well outside of the Magesterium and are not required tenets of the faith. The Church exists without such statements, though a saint’s interpretation of the Church I do not ever question. Which is why your statement disturbed me

There are many like you who seek to sway others away from the faith by misquoting shamelessly, using mockery to defuse/bully and disarm and bring onlookers to your side through ridicule of others

Here’s St ignatius’ quote, which I’d never heard from three generations of Jesuits because it is utterly unremarkable when quoted instead of twisted as you had done:

“.... Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.”

I hope you will get off my case


32 posted on 05/29/2014 1:38:58 PM PDT by stanne
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To: G Larry

Good. I am sure it is cited as a reference in the catechetical statement


33 posted on 05/29/2014 1:41:15 PM PDT by stanne
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To: Alex Murphy

Here’s the quote I chased after. I’ll bet you’re popular sending people on chases while you sit back and make them run around in search of logic.

“.... Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.”

Not the bishops

Yuck


34 posted on 05/29/2014 1:44:04 PM PDT by stanne
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To: stanne
Here’s the quote I chased after. I’ll bet you’re popular sending people on chases while you sit back and make them run around in search of logic.

Ready for another round?

35 posted on 05/29/2014 2:05:52 PM PDT by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: mikey_hates_everything

Would loose to many donations that way


36 posted on 05/29/2014 2:12:43 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Alex Murphy

Misquoting saints to make a heretical point in a news forum is not a problem for you

And calling those for whom it is a problem, dogs, is okay with you

Blechhhh!!


37 posted on 05/29/2014 2:15:43 PM PDT by stanne
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To: grobdriver

So why isn’t this a violation of the separation of church and government policy?

Sad to see the church jumping on the bandwagon of blaming guns instead of going into poor and high crime areas to help people out of their cesspool environment. Where I grew up churches and business organizations helped the less fortunate by supporting youth athletics. Maybe it wasn’t perfect but it was a lot better than we see with government handouts. It certainly kept a lot of juveniles off the streets and encouraged interaction between races and classes.


38 posted on 05/29/2014 2:34:14 PM PDT by Boomer One
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To: aimhigh

So far, I see nothing in this bill that would have prevented what happened at Newtown Connecticut. This is all smokescreen. The kid in Connecticut didn’t have to pass a background check. He owned no gun. He had no requirement for owning a gun or having a license. He was not a felon who could not own a gun.

Please tell me how this legislation would do any good at all for that which it is being put forward for.

To me, this is just more propaganda aimed at eventually disarming American citizens. Nothing more!


39 posted on 05/29/2014 3:13:37 PM PDT by maxwellsmart_agent
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To: Boomer One

Well, the bishops represent the Church, but it is not Church teaching to interfere this way, and not on this issue.

Ugh


40 posted on 05/29/2014 4:05:24 PM PDT by stanne
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