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Dont Argue With Liberals It Only Encourages Them
Townhall.com ^ | June 2, 2014 | Kurt Schlichter

Posted on 06/02/2014 3:57:36 AM PDT by Kaslin

Non-lawyers often ask me, “What is the best way to argue with a liberal?” This is silly, because there is no best way to argue with a liberal. They're beyond argument. You might as well argue with your terrier. Take it from someone who argues with his hideous terrier all the time.

But if you do choose to argue with a liberal, understand that your purpose should never be to change the liberal’s mind. You're not going to change the liberal’s mind. Instead, if you choose to argue with a liberal, you should do it for one of two reasons – to either win over people who have not yet made up their minds, or to support people who already have begun to understand the truth.

The truth is that conservatism is an ideology that is in accord with natural law and basic human decency, while liberalism is merely the summit of a slippery slope leading down to the hellish depths of collectivist misery.

Liberals aren’t going to like to hear this manifest and demonstrable truth. So you’re going to get called “racist,” “sexist” and “homophobic,” even if you’re a conservative black lesbian.

What you are not going to get is an argument. An argument is a collected series of statements designed to establish a definite proposition. Arguments involve the presentation of facts and evidence from which one draws a conclusion. Implied within the concept of an argument is the potential that one might change his conclusion. But liberals start with the conclusion.

They don’t change their conclusions based on the facts and evidence; they change the facts and evidence based on the conclusion they want. This is why a 105 degree day is irrefutable proof of global warming, while a 60 degree day is irrefutable proof of global warming. As is a -20 degree day.

Liberals are only concerned with argument, or what superficially appears to be argument, as a rhetorical bludgeon designed to beat you into submission. They aren’t trying to change your mind. They don’t expect you to agree with them. They don’t even care whether or not you grow to love Big Brother.

They just want you to shut up and let them run rampant. If you understand that, you'll be fine.

There are two basic tactics to choose from when responding to a liberal pseudo-argument, defense and counterattack. Without getting too detailed and infantry-nerdy on you, think of defense as simply preventing a loss. You're holding your ground. The counterattack, however, lashes out to seize the initiative and defeat your enemy.

Both have their uses. When you defend, you are generally responding to the pseudo-argument the liberal is making. A liberal will start advocating some nonsense and you reply to what he says. You may choose to use examples of liberalism's many failures to illustrate how collectivism is a prescription for disaster. For example, some pinko starts crowing about how eight million suckers signed up for Obamacare. A good defense might involve raising the question of how many of those eight million have actually paid for it.

But the problem with defense is that it treats a liberal "argument” with a respect it doesn't deserve. You dignify liberal silliness with a response when all it deserves is mockery and contempt.

This is why I prefer to counterattack. When you counterattack, you ignore the proposition offered by the liberal and refuse to respond on the liberal’s preferred terms. In fact, you don’t even need to address the same subject the liberal is talking about. Your goal is not to undercut the liberal’s assertion. You're going to counterattack to undercut the liberal himself.

There are many good reasons to choose the approach of treating the liberal like he is a terrible person with terrible ideas who seeks to impose a quasi-fascist police state upon America, including the fact that it's all true.

Let’s try a counterattack battle drill. Some doofus with a “Capitalism Is a Patriarchal, Cisnormative Hate Crime” t-shirt starts babbling about “privilege.” The undecideds start listening, their jaws drooping slightly. Some of the more conservative ones are silent, not wanting to be labeled racist by some geek whose grandfather came from Oslo. You need to act. So you causally inject the question, “Hey, why are you an eager and active member of a political party that made a KKK kleagle a beloved Senate Majority Leader?”

Then you mention that you’re a member of the party that fought slavery and didn’t turn hoses on civil rights marchers. Then you finish by announcing, “Well, I’m going to stand with Dr. King and judge people by the content of their character.” It’s optional whether you then get up, scream that the liberal should have issued you a trigger warning about his racism, and leave.

But be careful – the liberal may totally spit in the next latte he sells you.

Some people might question whether this kind of Alinsky-esque tactic means we are stooping to the liberals’ level. Except the liberals’ level is six feet underground, where the victims of collectivism lie buried. Anyone not willing to take the fight to them simply empowers their liberal fascist fantasies.

If you're trying to win an Oxford Union debate with a liberal, you’ve missed the point. This isn't about the Marquess of Queensberry’s fussy little rules. This isn't about some sort of extended-pinky exchange of ideas over a fine glass of port. This is about fighting for our way of life and our fundamental rights against the intellectual heirs of Stalin, Mao and Hitler.

Attack. This is about winning. First prize is freedom. Second prize is tyranny.


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: conservatives; liberalism; liberals
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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1 posted on 06/02/2014 3:57:36 AM PDT by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin

You waste time arguing with people who have been brainwashed by Communist professors and the state-run media. Life is too short to waste on fools.


2 posted on 06/02/2014 4:00:55 AM PDT by txrefugee
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To: txrefugee

I 100% agree. It’s amazing how your words get twisted when you try.


3 posted on 06/02/2014 4:02:23 AM PDT by gattaca (The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left. Ecclesiastes10:2)
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To: Kaslin

I don’t argue with them. I simply ask them questions that they can’t answer, questions like “Can you give me an example of where a monopoly has provided better service at lower cost than a fully competitive health care market?” Or, “Can you name a single country that has a higher opinion of the United States today than they did six years ago?” When faced with questions like that, liberals discover that they don’t know jack. I then follow it with something like, “Since it is clear you weren’t able to think up these opinions all on your own, where did you really get them from?”


4 posted on 06/02/2014 4:06:38 AM PDT by Hoodat (Democrats - Opposing Equal Protection since 1828)
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To: Kaslin

Well they have to learn the hard way.


5 posted on 06/02/2014 4:06:42 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: txrefugee

“You waste time arguing with people who have been brainwashed by Communist professors and the state-run media. Life is too short to waste on fools.”

You’re right; we are way past dialogue with the left.


6 posted on 06/02/2014 4:08:15 AM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic warfare against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: txrefugee

Just because we have freedom of speech, that doesn’t mean that I have to listen to them. So I just ignore or mute them


7 posted on 06/02/2014 4:10:32 AM PDT by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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Bookmarking


8 posted on 06/02/2014 4:11:06 AM PDT by RandallFlagg (Uninstall Fascist Firefox. Get Pale Moon.)
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To: Kaslin

All agreed except also the failure to fight liberals has led to more people believing in something which is really quite despicable. There has to be an effort to win people back over.

Simple example, more people actually believing it’s OK to do nothing and live off others, rather than realizing that is shameful.


9 posted on 06/02/2014 4:11:07 AM PDT by Williams
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To: Kaslin

I have several lib/leftist acquaintances. Their thinking is SO warped that you cannot have an intelligent, rational, reasonable discussion/conversation with them on anything but the most mundane, nonpolitical topics. Even the weather is off limits because they’ll turn it into a tirade about “climate change”. I quit trying to influence their thinking a long time ago after learning this the hard way. The only thing I will do is stand up for what I believe if they get personal and attack, which they often do since they can’t seem to see there are two sides/differing opinions. There is no “live and let live” - if you don’t embrace their views, you’re racist, bigoted, intolerant, and whatever other terms they want to call you; however, they are perfectly oblivious to the fact that this very intolerance and refusal to acknowledge basic freedoms and liberty (especially religious) is bigoted, ignorant ... whatever.


10 posted on 06/02/2014 4:18:10 AM PDT by Qiviut (Obama: A Caesar at home & a Chamberlain abroad, dividing the country & uniting the world against us.)
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To: Hoodat

Tried that on a couple of young Obamabots in the 2008 election. I asked them to name a successful, efficent government run agency. Their answer...USPS.

Pointing out how much money it was losing they said the problem was taxes that were too low and unfair competition from the private sector.


11 posted on 06/02/2014 4:18:40 AM PDT by prisoner6 (Register COMMIES not GUNS!)
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To: Kaslin

I learned my lesson long ago with Liberals.

So now, I just treat them the way I would a child, a drunk or a mentally challenged person.

They will never recognize logic... and politics aside, how do you communicate with a person who doesn’t recognize logic?


12 posted on 06/02/2014 4:24:42 AM PDT by SMARTY ("When you blame others, you give up your power to change." Robert Anthony)
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To: prisoner6
unfair competition from the private sector

Classic liberal idiocy.

13 posted on 06/02/2014 4:28:12 AM PDT by Hoodat (Democrats - Opposing Equal Protection since 1828)
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To: SMARTY

I love it, you could say there there little one, you’ll understand some day and walk away


14 posted on 06/02/2014 4:33:44 AM PDT by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: Kaslin

I can be pretty persuasive in prose form. but face to face argument with a leftist or anyone else for that matter can be daunting....

as a wag once said, “I don’t argue too well, extemporaneously, off the top of my head” oh wait that wag was me.

so when the leftist at the cocktail party(or kegger or labor day bbq) tells me something, oh, let say. “Handguns, shouldn’t be legal as they could never make a dent in a standing army”...my sluggish gray cells begin to remember that one uses a handgun to get to a rifle. It recalls the story of the ‘liberator’ .45ACP single shot pistol dropped to the partisans in parts of Europe during WWII, so that Mr or Mrs partisan goes up to a german sentry with an offer of a cigarette and asks for a light and while Fritz is fumbling for his Ronson(or Krupp clone of same)the patriot launches a single smooth bore projectile through the brain of the Hun and takes his MP-38 and magazine belt for future fun and frolic......

then I stop daydreaming and Mr. Ponytail has left and starts his argument with the next person at the party....

so knowing that time keeps slipping slipping,into the future, sometimes I just argue something like “ Oh YEAH...well F*** you, that’s what...”


15 posted on 06/02/2014 4:34:06 AM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: Kaslin

“Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.”
Mark Twain


16 posted on 06/02/2014 4:35:30 AM PDT by CrazyIvan (I lost my phased plasma rifle in a tragic hovercraft accident.)
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To: Kaslin

Arguing with a liberal is like wrestling a pig. You’ll both get dirty and the pig loves it.


17 posted on 06/02/2014 4:36:02 AM PDT by Holdem Or Foldem (Life isn't fair, so wear a cup.)
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To: Kaslin
Horsecrap...we got where we are today because we don't argue. The reason we need to engage Leftists at every opportunity is not to sway them, but to sway those who maybe listening, but are afraid to let their own opinions be known.

Too many cowardly conservatives are that way because they've been convinced by pop culture and the Leftist news media that they're the minority. They never hear anyone arguing the positions they agree with, so they stay silent. I've actually had bystanders approach me after a public argument and say they agreed 100%, but they never heard anyone else say what I'd said.

When you're arguing in public, you're on stage...make it your best performance ever. True, you'll never sway a Leftist, but you may encourage an audience member to nut up and come forward.

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

18 posted on 06/02/2014 4:38:51 AM PDT by wku man (Veterans, it's up to us to save the Republic...let's roll.)
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To: gattaca

Ping for later


19 posted on 06/02/2014 4:39:04 AM PDT by NewHampshireDuo
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To: wku man

It is never too late to learn!


20 posted on 06/02/2014 4:44:32 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: Kaslin

21 posted on 06/02/2014 4:46:06 AM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: txrefugee

The point is not to convert the fascist, but the people nearby who are not radical and are willing to passivly overhear your argument.


22 posted on 06/02/2014 4:47:42 AM PDT by Excellence (Marine mom since April 11, 2014)
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To: Vaquero

Post of the day and it’s not even daylight here yet!


23 posted on 06/02/2014 4:48:15 AM PDT by SW6906 (6 things you can't have too much of: sex, money, firewood, horsepower, guns and ammunition.)
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To: Qiviut

Old joke-

Arguing with liberals is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock over all the pieces, crap all over the board, and then strut around looking victorious.


24 posted on 06/02/2014 4:55:18 AM PDT by servo1969
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To: Hoodat

Good points,


25 posted on 06/02/2014 4:58:29 AM PDT by Big Red Badger ( - William Diamonds Drum - can You Hear it G man?)
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To: FReepers

It's time to close the book on the FReepathon.



Click the Pic


Support Free Republic

26 posted on 06/02/2014 4:58:57 AM PDT by deoetdoctrinae (Gun-free zones are playgrounds for felons.)
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To: Hoodat

I do the same thing.. I ask them questions that force them to defend their positions, e.g., “Given the fact the U.S. government is clearly unable to provide medical services to those we’re all told are the country’s finest... what data convinces you such a system can successfully deliver those services under a single-payer approach to 315 million people?”

I have yet to get an answer other than babbling about “corporations,” “greed,” “inequality,” etc.


27 posted on 06/02/2014 5:00:05 AM PDT by ScottinVA (Obama is so far in over his head, even his ears are beneath the water level.)
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To: kearnyirish2

“...we are wat oast dialogue with the left.”

Absolutely.

IMHO


28 posted on 06/02/2014 5:01:53 AM PDT by ripley
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To: SMARTY

“...how do you communicate with a person who doesn’t recognize logic?”

Hell is a place where logic doesn’t exist and that’s where the hardcore fourty-per-cent-plus of the electorate is taking us.

IMHO


29 posted on 06/02/2014 5:04:54 AM PDT by ripley
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To: wku man

I agree- Debate- and be clear - even it is on just 1

subject!

The dufus lieberals in my family are always spouting
off the latest crap -direct from the DNC-
here is how to answer some:
A. “8 million people signed up for health care- Yea!”
How many have lost?- (approaching 7 million)
I thought there was 38 million without?
Health care costs have risen faster than ever-
and are just starting-
and HOW many hospitals and clinics have closed?

Being liberals- they will not listen to reason- but
the younger people who hear this conversation may
start to question the lies they hear 24 x 7 from the MSM


30 posted on 06/02/2014 5:06:47 AM PDT by mj1234
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To: Kaslin

Sometimes you can spur the thought processes by one upping them. They want a minimum wage of $20/hour, say you can’t live on that, it has to be $50/hour.

They want single payer health care, you agree and say that the government should provide a car and a 3 BR home to everyone as well.

They want to ban fossil fuels, you agree and counter that the government should ban automobiles and make everyone move to a city where they can walk or bike.

Sometimes a real crazy person will agree with you, but usually they will say that’s going to far. Then you say, how far is too far and who’s to decide that?


31 posted on 06/02/2014 5:10:47 AM PDT by randita
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To: randita
Sometimes you can spur the thought processes by one upping them. They want a minimum wage of $20/hour, say you can’t live on that, it has to be $50/hour.

I do this one all the time. When they say they want a minimum wage of $15/hr, I say, "Why not make it $50/hr? If $15 is good, then $50 should be better, right?" Then I sit back and enjoy the stupid looks on their faces. Deep down, they know there has to be something wrong with what I just said, but they cannot for the life of them figure out what it is.

32 posted on 06/02/2014 5:14:13 AM PDT by Hoodat (Democrats - Opposing Equal Protection since 1828)
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To: Qiviut

“I have several lib/leftist acquaintances. Their thinking is SO warped that you cannot have an intelligent, rational, reasonable discussion/conversation with them on anything but the most mundane, nonpolitical topics’

Try this next time.

Don’t disagree with them agree with them and make even more bazar leftist statements than they are making.

If they disagree with your bazar statements go directly into name calling, hater, racist, denier, right wing extremist, just the same as they always do.

Let them see themselves.


33 posted on 06/02/2014 5:14:59 AM PDT by IMR 4350
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To: randita

Sounds like a fun debate tactic - just take their policy desires to their logical conclusions (ie, the real goals),

and see if they defend them.


34 posted on 06/02/2014 5:15:57 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: wku man; All

BTTT!

________________

Word for Today:
“ Fascism: Noun. - - - A system of Government characterized by rigid one-party dictatorship, forcible suppression of the opposition - - - “

Hitler, Hitler,
He’s our Man!
If he can’t do it,
Judge Roberts can!

Roberts, Roberts,
He’s our Man!
If he can’t do it,
Geithner’s IRS can!

Geightner, Geithner,
He’s our Man!
If he can’t do it,
BLM’s Reid can!

Reid, Reid,
He’s our Man!
If he can’t do it,
Soetoro’s NSA can!

Soetoro, Soetoro,
He’s our Man!
If he can’t do it,
Obama’s EPA can.

Obama, Obama,
He’s our man!
If he can’t do it,
Gestapo Holder can!

Holder, Holder,
He’s our Man!
If he can’t do it,
The Democrats
Damn sure will!


35 posted on 06/02/2014 5:16:50 AM PDT by Graewoulf (Democrats' Obamacare Socialist Health Insur. Tax violates U.S. Constitution AND Anti-Trust Law.)
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To: prisoner6
Tried that on a couple of young Obamabots in the 2008 election. I asked them to name a successful, efficent government run agency. Their answer...USPS. Pointing out how much money it was losing they said the problem was taxes that were too low and unfair competition from the private sector.

Damn. They're half right. The USPS isn't losing the money that you hear in the headlines. They're being robbed of much of that. USPS is a successful, and reasonably efficient example of a government run agency, only, they're only a quasi government run agency. For example, I can't think of any other government run agency that has invested heavily in automation, rightly or wrongly, and has actually shrunk the work force. Rightly or wrongly. This last round of closures has hurt the business, but the USPS will plod along and pretend that everything is skittles. This pretend parlor game of having the USPS run as an independent, free business, while being under the control of Congress, has indeed reaped some efficiency.

Unfortunately, they then stumble into the idiocy of "taxes too low and unfair competition with the private sector" as reasons for the money loss. It's utter ignorance of what they speak, and the necessity to regurgitate headlines, professorial puke, and what they read on twitter that leads to such un-insightful comments.

36 posted on 06/02/2014 5:18:49 AM PDT by Big Giant Head
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To: Kaslin

I agree - never accept their premises (which are always wrong) and go on the offensive. Treat them with the disdain they deserve.


37 posted on 06/02/2014 5:23:29 AM PDT by aquila48
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To: txrefugee
You're in a crowd of liberal talking about global warming. You say in a low, conspiratal tone, "I just don't like being lied to." They think you're talking about the Koch brothers or some such thing. You say, "For example, the Atlantic multi-decadal oscillation is flipping, and they're not even talking about it." Then walk away. Most of them will think "WTF" because they have no freaking idea what you're talking about. But somebody is going to go home and Google "Atlantic multi-decadal oscillation," only to find out it's flipping from warm to cold, and that in just a few years the north pole will have as much ice as it ever did since they've been keeping satellite records. Hopefully they will have your, "I don't like being lied to" ringing in their ears, and they will start wondering what else they haven't been told because nobody is even talking about it.
38 posted on 06/02/2014 5:30:36 AM PDT by Excellence (Marine mom since April 11, 2014)
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To: Kaslin

I don’t agree entirely. An awful lot of conservatives started out as liberals. They must have changed their minds at some point.


39 posted on 06/02/2014 5:30:45 AM PDT by Hugin
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To: randita

That is no doubt the best way to talk to idiots but sometimes I forget that I am talking to idiots and address them as if they actually had a thought process. That is my grievious error. One of my favorite memories is when a full blown liberal clown who steadfastly denied being one made some ridiculous remark and when I disagreed with it he came back with, “There is no one as blind as someone who refuses to see.” I immediately answered him with, “Then why don’t you see instead of refusing?” To my surprise he actually complimented me on the speed of my “turnaround”. He seemed to admire the art of turning his own rhetoric back against him.


40 posted on 06/02/2014 5:31:52 AM PDT by RipSawyer
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To: Kaslin

Bump


41 posted on 06/02/2014 5:32:17 AM PDT by WashingtonSource
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To: Hugin

“Don’t bother me with the facts, my minds made up”.


42 posted on 06/02/2014 5:32:30 AM PDT by DaveA37
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To: mj1234
"even it is on just 1 subject!

Exactly. One of their favorite tactics is the red herring. They'll try to go off on a tangent, and eventually wind up on another subject altogether. This leaves you and those who may be listening confused, and puts the Lefty in control. Don't let them. Focus on the subject at hand. Use phrases like, "Stick to the subject", "One thing at a time", or "What the hell are you talking about...we were talking about (fill in the blank)."

Also, don't use big words that the typical Generation.commer won't understand. We conservatives have a tendency to want to show how smart we are...resist this urge. We want to talk to people, not at them. If your argument goes over their heads, they'll lose interest and walk away.

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

43 posted on 06/02/2014 5:39:03 AM PDT by wku man (Veterans, it's up to us to save the Republic...let's roll.)
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To: txrefugee

“You waste time arguing with people who have been brainwashed by Communist professors and the state-run media. Life is too short to waste on fools.”

I agree completely. I pity the interviewers on TV who out of fairness have to give them time to espouse the party-provided Talking Points.


44 posted on 06/02/2014 5:42:50 AM PDT by The Antiyuppie ("When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day.")
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To: Kaslin

It’s usually about as productive as explaining baseball to a cat.


45 posted on 06/02/2014 5:43:38 AM PDT by william clark (Ecclesiastes 10:2)
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To: IMR 4350
Don’t disagree with them agree with them and make even more bazar leftist statements than they are making.

*************************************

To be honest, I don't have the energy for that, I am very much focused on trying to exclude people from my sphere of getting along on this earth who are intransigent and who suck the joy out of my life. It's just not worth the negativity. It's like the Bible says .... Matthew 10:14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. I take the time to state my case - pro God, pro life, pro traditional family & marriage, pro 2A, conservative, anti big government, etc. at which point they are upset/enraged to the point of being screaming meemies, and then I shake the dust (& them) off my feet and move on.

46 posted on 06/02/2014 6:02:10 AM PDT by Qiviut (Obama: A Caesar at home & a Chamberlain abroad, dividing the country & uniting the world against us.)
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To: Kaslin
I don't know... I'm generally an easy-going, non-confrontational kind of guy. Every once in a while though I admit it - I take some pleasure in spinning up a liberal. As others have said, most of the time I tune them out and ignore them. Every once in a while though one will say/type something even dumber than usual or retread an old stupid idea and I just have to step in with a little dose of reality.

But know this people. It takes training and temperament to "debate" with a liberal. You have to realize going in that while you have facts and reason on your side, they have emotion, their positions are built on faith (not grounded by facts/reality), and they have no limits - you will be insulted. Don't take it personally, it is not you, it is them.

47 posted on 06/02/2014 6:06:07 AM PDT by ThunderSleeps (Stop obarma now! Stop the hussein - insane agenda!)
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To: Kaslin

Spot on, and a brilliant post!

Liberals aim at the complete destruction of society, morally, economically, intellectually...Detroit is their poster child. They don’t engage on a fair or rational basis, as you said it’s all about bludgeoning their opponents to shut up.

I was reminded about the recent college debate nonsense, wherein some liberal students decided that the rules of debate were “racist”. They ignored the rules, went over the time limits and didn’t even address the topic, they changed it in fact, yet these students actually WON!

http://dailycaller.com/2014/04/20/prepare-for-outrage-far-left-judges-allow-destruction-of-college-debate-clubs-because-racism/

Counterattack is the best defense.


48 posted on 06/02/2014 6:45:24 AM PDT by Gunpowder green
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To: william clark
It’s usually about as productive as explaining baseball to a cat.

My cat understands baseball. She just prefers soccer.

49 posted on 06/02/2014 6:47:22 AM PDT by rjsimmon (The Tree of Liberty Thirsts)
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To: kearnyirish2
We are way past dialogue with the Left

Except the Republican Party leaders think -- really, truly believe -- these people are rational and can be negotiated with. Experience and history say otherwise!

50 posted on 06/02/2014 6:54:51 AM PDT by glennaro
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