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Fearing Rising Backlash, NRA Urges Gun Activists to Stand Down
Mother Jones ^ | 6-2-14 | Mark Fullman

Posted on 06/02/2014 8:27:47 AM PDT by windcliff

The last couple of months have been rough for proponents of open-carry gun laws. No fewer than seven restaurant chains have taken a stand against firearms being brought to their businesses, after activists in Texas conducted provocative demonstrations in which they toted semi-automatic rifles into various eateries. Texas law allows rifles (though not handguns) to be carried on display in public, but some patrons and employees were unnerved and angered by the demonstrations, and a national group advocating for reforms, Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America, pressured the companies using social media campaigns. After Mother Jones published videos of the gun activists in action, Sonic and Chili's Grill & Bar became the latest to officially reject guns on their premises.

There has also been a particularly dark side to the story of the gun activists: As I first reported in mid May, members of Open Carry Texas and their allies have used vicious tactics against people who disagree with them, including bullying and degrading women. Just last week they harassed a Marine veteran, pursuing him through the streets of Fort Worth on Memorial Day.

In an extraordinary statement, the NRA denounced the open-carry demonstrations as "foolishness" and "downright weird."

Evidently the National Rifle Association has come to realize that none of this is good for business. In an extraordinary move on Friday, the NRA's Institute for Legislative Action—the organization's powerful lobbying arm in Washington—issued a lengthy statement seeking to distinguish between "responsible behavior" and "legal mandates." It told the Texas gun activists in no uncertain terms to stand down.

(Excerpt) Read more at motherjones.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; guns; nra; opencarry; rkba
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1 posted on 06/02/2014 8:27:47 AM PDT by windcliff
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To: All


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2 posted on 06/02/2014 8:28:53 AM PDT by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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To: windcliff

Mother Jones is afraid of the societal change rapidly eroding hopes of a leftist utopia being implemented.

Too dawned bad.


3 posted on 06/02/2014 8:30:25 AM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: musicman

I’d agree with a bit of volume reduction.

All we need is for something - anything - to happen that would allow the MSM (candidate for low IQ average winner) to paint gun owners as (fill in your worst description here).


4 posted on 06/02/2014 8:34:07 AM PDT by Da Coyote
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To: windcliff
In an extraordinary statement, the NRA denounced the open-carry demonstrations as "foolishness" and "downright weird."

I agree. Going out of your way to make people uncomfortable by open-carrying a rifle into a public restaurant, just to make a point, is counter-productive.

5 posted on 06/02/2014 8:34:11 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: windcliff
Setting aside the hyperbole in the article, I think these "demonstrations" are counter-productive.

When the CHL law was first enacted in Texas, we worked to educate businesses on the law, and pointed out that they wouldn't know who was carrying a gun, and posting a sign only kept out the law abiding. We also pointed out the risks of creating a gun-free zone. In many cases, businesses took down the signs and/or changed policy.

Now, the "open carry" demonstrations have undone our efforts. Several businesses (like Chili's) are now changing policy again.

I understand what the proponents of open carry are trying to do. But, I think they are going at it the wrong way. Instead of "educating" people, they are making them uncomfortable, and the inevitable over-reaction is a step backwards.

6 posted on 06/02/2014 8:34:27 AM PDT by justlurking (tagline removed, as demanded by Admin Moderator)
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To: windcliff

Mother Jones is fabricating dissention.

Then again, I have found plenty of wi+ years ago who were staunch second amendment supporters but who wanted to toss assault weapons under the bus as an embarrassment to “legitimate” shooters.

The point of the provocative open carry demonstrations is to show that what most people ignorantly think is dangerous (a “man with a gun!”) is perfectly safe.

I think it would be even more effective if we recruited muscular black men and tattooed Hispanics who were legally qualified to open carry rifles, and made opposing gun rights a racial issue. Also, some hot chicks to make good optics for the PR. Then grannies. Then (yes) flaming gays.


7 posted on 06/02/2014 8:35:08 AM PDT by Freeping Since 2001 (Since 2001. Seriously.)
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To: windcliff

Don’t give that commie rag any hits - read the original NRA statement here: http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/articles/2014/5/good-citizens-and-good-neighbors-the-gun-owners-role.aspx


8 posted on 06/02/2014 8:35:10 AM PDT by ConservingFreedom (A goverrnment strong enough to impose your standards is strong enough to ban them.)
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To: MrEdd

Yes it is Mother Jones. We know what their agenda is. I will say that if I were with my family in a restaurant and a person walked in with an AR-15 or an AK-47, it would be disturbing. I say this favoring concealed or open carry. Wear a sidearm on your hip, no problem at all. I think this is evidence of very poor judgement.


9 posted on 06/02/2014 8:37:16 AM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: windcliff

This is a real catch-22. If you don’t excercise a right, you might lose it. On the other hand, some open carry in some situations is probably not prudent.

I have a CCW permit and prefer that method over advertising myself as a carrier. But I do open carry handguns in some nearby rural towns.


10 posted on 06/02/2014 8:39:48 AM PDT by umgud
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To: Freeping Since 2001
The point of the provocative open carry demonstrations is to show that what most people ignorantly think is dangerous (a “man with a gun!”) is perfectly safe.

Yes, but it should be better planned and paced to produce a "slow trickle" of these events, more widely scattered at different locations. Move too fast with it and the negative media stories just sort of get linked together and the ignorant beliefs are reinforced.

11 posted on 06/02/2014 8:42:43 AM PDT by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: ConservingFreedom
Yes.

and proponents of open carry also ought to revive the American dress code of a coat and decent shirt (tie optional). A sport jacket is a very nice way to have easy access to your holster while keeping it a bit more private.

Walking into MacDonald's trailing your trusty 38-55 Winchester, wearing shorts, a dirty tee shirt with an NRA slogan, flip-flops, a 10-day beard, a mullet hair-do and many strange tattoos does not inspire confidence. Especially of you are a girl.

12 posted on 06/02/2014 8:44:52 AM PDT by Kenny Bunk (Vote for a gay African Marxist for POTUS? Sure. What could go wrong?)
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To: All

I was downtown Dallas with my daughter when we just happened to walk by the activists. I’m not against open carry, but this is just not the right way to do this. Unfortunately it unnerved my daughter. I explained to her what was going on and she chilled out.

The average bystander, not knowing what the heck is going on, could possibly over react, etc. There just too many opportunities for something to go wrogn. If I was a restaurant owner, I would have politely asked them to demonstrate somewhere else or would have contacted police to report.

Overall, it was just surreal...that’s all. Not used to seeing this.


13 posted on 06/02/2014 8:45:36 AM PDT by Maringa
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To: windcliff

Just last weekend, at a little country store with a lunch counter, saw a guy walk in with an open carry holstered pistol. Despite the worst fears of the liberals, the only thing that happened was the he ordered his food, waited for it to be cooked, paid for it and left. No one was killed. No panic. Just another day here in the heartland.


14 posted on 06/02/2014 8:45:37 AM PDT by Teotwawki (For a person to get a thing without paying for it, another must pay for it without getting it.)
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To: justlurking

“I understand what the proponents of open carry are trying to do. But, I think they are going at it the wrong way. Instead of “educating” people, they are making them uncomfortable, and the inevitable over-reaction is a step backwards. “

Yes, they are beginning to act like Gays and Gay Marriage. The beef I have with the NRA (and why I let my membership lapse) is the fact that they will support DemoRATs so long as they are “right” on guns. I’d be a lot happier with the NRA if they were pro Constitution!


15 posted on 06/02/2014 8:46:10 AM PDT by vette6387
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To: windcliff
Gee, I guess this means any of these chains with outlets in Israel will be closing up shop soon.

 photo NightoutinTelAvivcopy_zps0a23c330.jpg

16 posted on 06/02/2014 8:49:19 AM PDT by Dick Bachert (Ignorance is NOT BLISS. It is the ROAD TO SERFDOM! We're on a ROAD TRIP!!)
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To: windcliff

Nice to see “Mother Jones” weighing in on this.But who next? The People’s Daily?


17 posted on 06/02/2014 8:50:31 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Rat Party Policy:Lie,Deny,Refuse To Comply)
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To: Freeping Since 2001

No they aren’t. It’s clear this is creating a major issue for 2nd Amendment Rights activists. While I am no real believer in 99% of the “false flag” idiocy ... if there is ever going to be one, count on it being as a result of this.


18 posted on 06/02/2014 8:54:25 AM PDT by RIghtwardHo
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To: Dick Bachert

Bad place the clip an extra mag in my opinion.


19 posted on 06/02/2014 8:55:50 AM PDT by headstamp 2 (What would Scooby do?)
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To: DoughtyOne
I will say that if I were with my family in a restaurant and a person walked in with an AR-15 or an AK-47, it would be disturbing. I say this favoring concealed or open carry. Wear a sidearm on your hip, no problem at all.

As hard as it is to believe, this is due to Texas law.

You can carry a rifle in public, slung over your shoulder.

But, you can't carry a handgun openly, except when "engaged in a sporting purpose". Even with a CHL, you can only carry one concealed.

20 posted on 06/02/2014 8:59:51 AM PDT by justlurking (tagline removed, as demanded by Admin Moderator)
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To: justlurking

I caught that from the article, so I understand what’s going on here. I just think you loose more support than you gain by walking in like this.

Most folks don’t focus on gun rights all the time. They may favor them, but they don’t key in on it like some of us do. Those folks aren’t going to be impressed by this sort of thing, even though they probably share a lot of our views down deep.

I just think it’s a mistake.

I appreciate the note of mention, re the handguns being worn openly.


21 posted on 06/02/2014 9:07:18 AM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: DoughtyOne
I just think it’s a mistake.

I agree. I wrote a posting earlier in this thread, lamenting that this "activism" is undoing a great deal of effort expended right after the CHL law was enacted in the 90's.

22 posted on 06/02/2014 9:09:50 AM PDT by justlurking (tagline removed, as demanded by Admin Moderator)
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To: vette6387

The beef I have with the NRA (and why I let my membership lapse) is the fact that they will support DemoRATs so long as they are “right” on guns. I’d be a lot happier with the NRA if they were pro Constitution!

A very worthy beef IMHO.

Supporting democrats regardless of their position on guns is a lose lose in everyway one could possibly think of. When the NRA ever comes to it’s senses, maybe I will consider membership. How one justifies, middle of the road sitting on the fence politics in today’s world is a question the NRA seems to avoid.


23 posted on 06/02/2014 9:09:52 AM PDT by wita
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To: justlurking

Thanks JustLurking. We’re on the same page. I appreciate the comments.

You know, I’ve been out on the street with people I agree with politically. We believe in the same things, even the same cause we were protesting about. Sadly, some of them make such fools of themselves on the street, that they tarnish the whole cause and Conservatives in general with their insulting and ill thought out actions.

I think this is an example of that sort of problem.


24 posted on 06/02/2014 9:13:23 AM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: PapaBear3625
I agree. Going out of your way to make people uncomfortable by open-carrying a rifle into a public restaurant, just to make a point, is counter-productive.

Yep, like those Negroes that had the audacity to sit at the lunch counter or the gays with their PDA's and parades.

25 posted on 06/02/2014 9:14:14 AM PDT by NY.SS-Bar9 (Those that vote for a living outnumber those that work for one.)
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To: windcliff

Speaker of the Massachusetts House Robert DeLeo has before the Legislature a new, even more awful, gun-confiscation bill that begins with mandatory registration of ALL firearms in the state, including the musket your great-great-grandfather used during the Civil War. Is there another state with mandatory gun registration?


26 posted on 06/02/2014 9:14:58 AM PDT by pabianice (LINE)
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To: Kenny Bunk
Especially if you are a girl.

LOL!

27 posted on 06/02/2014 9:15:42 AM PDT by ConservingFreedom (A goverrnment strong enough to impose your standards is strong enough to ban them.)
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To: windcliff

While I am not a big fan of the NRA (they have compromised too many times), I believe they are correct in principle on this matter.

Two concepts that need to evaluated: what is legal and what is wise.

Let me start with an example. I live in the country where there is a beautiful winding road which is fairly flat, but that has some very steep edges to it, and is only wide enough for two cars with no shoulders on any part of the road for many many miles. Cars tend to go between 35 and 55mph on this road, around turns, etc. Because this road is very beautiful, I have noticed over the last six years or so more bicycles on this road, and in the last couple of years, people running on this road. This is very dangerous. With no where to go for either car or person I expect to hear of accidents. I have gone around the turns only to be encountered in my lane by bicycles or runners; and have had to brake hard to avoid hitting them. I will not move out into the other lane, because I can’t see if there are any cars coming in the other direction.

My point: while legal for the bicycles and runners, it is not wise; but very dangerous.

While legal for individuals to open carry it probably is not wise to open carry rifles. But instead it is an in your face attitude that doesn’t need to occur; and it seem to be openly rebellious (kind of like an 8-year old that has discovered a new found liberty and doesn’t know how to properly and responsibly exercise his new liberty.) Open carry with handguns in normal holsters would still make the point, exercising our 2nd amendment, but not be so brazen and in your face.

When Bill Walsh was coach of the 49ers and some of the team would do the victory dance in the endzone, he said something that has stuck with me (paraphrased by me): Stop the victory dance, when you get into the endzone, act like you have been there before.


28 posted on 06/02/2014 9:16:54 AM PDT by ForYourChildren (Christian Education [ RomanRoadsMedia.com - a classical Christian approach to homeschool])
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To: windcliff

Andrew Branca did a piece on this topic a couple weeks ago in Legal Insurrection.com. More than the usual number of comments on the story.

http://legalinsurrection.com/2014/05/op-ed-open-carry-activists-score-yet-another-own-goal//#more

“Another rationale offered by the “OCIYF!” crew is that they are merely strengthening their Second Amendment rights through the exercise of those rights. Indeed, they’ll be happy to imply that it’s not they who are the problem, but rather that the problem lies with those of us who don’t engage in “OCIYF!” who “hide” our Second Amendment rights—after all, if we don’t use our gun rights, we’ll lose our gun rights.

Here’s some breaking news for you “OCIYF!” people:

YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHT TO CARRY A FIREARM INTO A PRIVATELY OWNED BUSINESS.

None. Zero. Zilch. Zip.”


29 posted on 06/02/2014 9:19:39 AM PDT by digger48
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To: NY.SS-Bar9
Yep, like those Negroes that had the audacity to sit at the lunch counter or the gays with their PDA's and parades.

Neither of which can be considered to be behavior that would make a reasonable person concerned that an act of violence was about to occur. Something that CANNOT be said about walking into a place while holding an AR-15, given recent history of mass murder incidents.

I don't know about you, but if I'm sitting at a diner and somebody walks in holding an AR-15 (not just slung over the shoulder, or better-yet in a bag, but HOLDING), I'm going to react the same way as if somebody walked in holding a handgun in his hand, namely assume that a robbery or massacre is imminent.

One of these days, one of these open-carry idiots is going to walk into a place holding a rifle, somebody is going to become alarmed enough to draw and blow the guy away, and if I'm on the jury I WILL NOT VOTE TO CONVICT, on the basis of reasonable self-defense.

30 posted on 06/02/2014 9:40:39 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: DoughtyOne
Yes it is Mother Jones. We know what their agenda is. I will say that if I were with my family in a restaurant and a person walked in with an AR-15 or an AK-47, it would be disturbing. I say this favoring concealed or open carry. Wear a sidearm on your hip, no problem at all. I think this is evidence of very poor judgement.

Handgun open carry is not allowed in Texas... that is the point of their protest.
31 posted on 06/02/2014 9:49:16 AM PDT by TexasGunLover ("Either you're with us or you're with the terrorists."-- President George W. Bush)
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To: windcliff
(I'm pro 2nd amendment, anti guns for my personal preference)

Gunowners, is the NRA your friend? They should be pointing out that the problem is that everyone of these shooters has been or is on mind-warping "meds", prescribed to alter their behaviors. Aren't you paying dues for them to deflect from blaming the guns?

32 posted on 06/02/2014 9:53:29 AM PDT by grania
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To: TexasGunLover

Yes, I know that. I still don’t want folks walking into business establishments with AK-47s and AR-15s. I think you lose a lot of folks who would otherwise support your cause.


33 posted on 06/02/2014 10:21:23 AM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: windcliff

Showing up at a restaurant brandishing weapons is not a good way to support open carry.


34 posted on 06/02/2014 10:32:25 AM PDT by dangerdoc
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To: umgud
We have a right to free speech, too, but abuse it, no matter how righteous and patriotic your actual point, and people just assume you are an a-hole and are possibly going to look in a more negative manner on what your are trying to espouse. You have a right to refuse to testify against yourself, but take the 5th and EVERYONE is going to assume you are guilty as hell; a criminal who simply happens to either be smart enough not to lie or knows they're guilty and is smart enough to shut up. Just the way it is.
35 posted on 06/02/2014 10:40:10 AM PDT by RedStateRocker (Nuke Mecca, deport all illegal aliens, abolish the IRS, DEA and ATF.)
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To: TexasGunLover
Handgun open carry is not allowed in Texas... that is the point of their protest.

Funny. We have open carry in Oklahoma and we got it without acting like a bunch of irresponsible adolescents. Maybe that's *why* we got it here.

36 posted on 06/02/2014 10:55:32 AM PDT by cizinec
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To: PapaBear3625

So what is an acceptable carry method for a rifle or shotgun carried for personal protection? Because the states involved have made openly carrying a sidearm impracticable. This is a legal form of protest, the gun banners will act by outlawing it, and then we can take them to court with a bona-fide cause for action which isn’t already blocked by illegitimate and ignorant precedent.


37 posted on 06/02/2014 11:00:52 AM PDT by no-s (when democracy is displaced by tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote)
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To: dangerdoc

If you are talking about Chubby and Snowboots at Chipotle, they didn’t “show up there” to “brandish” their weapons.

They did pose for a photo op that the anti-gun types are using for good effect.

Especially effective on “fair weather Patriots” more than willing to concede the fight to the Left when they start saying mean things about us...


38 posted on 06/02/2014 11:09:52 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (Tri nornar eg bir. Binde til rota...)
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To: digger48

But then, if we wind up with a country where everything is privately owned, will we have no Second Amendment rights at all? Or any other rights?


39 posted on 06/02/2014 11:23:08 AM PDT by Hilda
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To: NY.SS-Bar9
Yep, like those Negroes that had the audacity to sit at the lunch counter or the gays with their PDA's and parades.

YUp. Exactly the same thing.

If you cannot exercise a right, you don't actually have it.

40 posted on 06/02/2014 11:42:17 AM PDT by zeugma (I have never seen anyone cross the street to avoid a black man in a suit.)
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To: dangerdoc
brandishing

I do not believe this word means what you think it means.

41 posted on 06/02/2014 11:46:14 AM PDT by zeugma (I have never seen anyone cross the street to avoid a black man in a suit.)
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To: no-s
So what is an acceptable carry method for a rifle or shotgun carried for personal protection? Because the states involved have made openly carrying a sidearm impracticable.

And why is open-carry of a sidearm necessary, as opposed to concealed carry? Or even moderately-discrete carry (i.e., where, sure, there's a noticeable bulge on your right hip, but no gun is actually visible)?

42 posted on 06/02/2014 11:47:53 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: Dead Corpse

Poor weapons etiquette is poor weapons etiquette. I was unimpressed and I grew up with guns, served combat duty and am a current CCL holder. How do suppose this affects the public that don’t have firearms exposure?

This crap is not serving our purposes, who do think it is helping?


43 posted on 06/02/2014 11:48:41 AM PDT by dangerdoc
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To: zeugma

Do you need pictures?


44 posted on 06/02/2014 11:53:11 AM PDT by dangerdoc
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To: dangerdoc
How do suppose this affects the public that don’t have firearms exposure?

That seems to be the issue here. Displaying firearms in such a fashion used to be the norm. Now it is a sight that produces panic and fear. Open carrying is more or less the only way to begin to eliminate that fear and panic reaction, IMO.

It is, after all, our right, is it not? Where does it say in the Constitution that you may only bear arms if they are concealed?

I don't know if all of those who are attempting to make a point by open carrying are doing the "right thing", but if we don't exercise our rights on a regular basis, they will be whittled down to meaningless "principles".


45 posted on 06/02/2014 12:42:43 PM PDT by Pox (Good Night. I expect more respect tomorrow.)
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To: dangerdoc
How do suppose this affects the public that don’t have firearms exposure?

No one is immune for firearms exposure in this Country. Not unless you are a hermit who hasn't seen a movie or ANY TV for the last... Ever. Scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz had a .38 revolver. Carried openly. Ponder that.

This crap is not serving our purposes, who do think it is helping?

Be more specific? "Conservatives" agreeing with Mother Jones' take on the issue? Or the open carry movement in particular?

If you don't have the desire to openly express a Right, don't. The more you don't, the easier it will be to take it away from you later... Haven't we learned that lesson yet?

46 posted on 06/02/2014 12:43:20 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (Tri nornar eg bir. Binde til rota...)
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To: dangerdoc
Do you need pictures?

Not really. Just enjoying reading the quislings with their panties in a wad.

47 posted on 06/02/2014 8:04:55 PM PDT by zeugma (I have never seen anyone cross the street to avoid a black man in a suit.)
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To: windcliff

You have to wonder if some of these people aren’t plants from the anti 2A crowd. They were instrumental in getting it banned in CA not long ago and if they left well enough alone it would still be there and you could easily win a court case over it (if you got picked up or harassed)without lighting up the libtards...


48 posted on 06/02/2014 8:31:10 PM PDT by Axenolith (Government blows, and that which governs least, blows least...)
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To: NY.SS-Bar9

Bullcrap. Even in the past you wouldn’t saunter into an establishment with a long gun with any frequency. At the very best, the courteous thing to do would be to check it on a rack.

Given the media preoccupation with “mass shootings” (which are infinitesimal in number in reality) and the constant hammering of it into the public’s mind, you are definitely primed to eventually have one or two guys saunter into an establishment with long guns slung over themselves and some pro active customer with a CCW lights them up thinking its “gonna be a shooting”.

Regardless of what you think of the social and legal aspects of the situation, you HAVE to look at it from the worst case scenario and how the media and powers that be would subsequently mine it for Constitutional kryptonite.

The activists would generate way more benefit if they merely talked people up and brought new blood into the ownership and sporting aspects of riflery and handgunning. As it stands, they are in the very least cementing numbers of people into the opposition position by freaking them out at lunch or dinner...


49 posted on 06/02/2014 8:45:41 PM PDT by Axenolith (Government blows, and that which governs least, blows least...)
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To: pabianice

California on purchase or transfer.


50 posted on 06/02/2014 8:46:23 PM PDT by Axenolith (Government blows, and that which governs least, blows least...)
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