Skip to comments.Are we at war?
Posted on 06/04/2014 12:34:46 AM PDT by Cololeo
Are we at war? I remember the Congress voting to authorize GWB to go into Iraq, but Ill be hornswaggled if I can remember any authorization for Afghanistan. If not, how can Bergdhal be a POW? Im confused. Can anyone explain the nitty-gritty here?
A prisoner of nonwar war?
Duuuuh, genius, we are going to have to haul out the Calvinball rules manual.
Yes, we are at war against the insurgents and terrorists stated in the Congressional Authorization to use Military Force (AUMF) in alliance with the same Government of Afghanistan recognized by the United Nations prior TO 11 September 2001. See Wikipedia:
To authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against those responsible for the recent attacks launched against the United States.
Whereas, on September 11, 2001, acts of treacherous violence were committed against the United States and its citizens; and
Whereas, such acts render it both necessary and appropriate that the United States exercise its rights to self-defense and to protect United States citizens both at home and abroad; and
Whereas, in light of the threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States posed by these grave acts of violence; and
Whereas, such acts continue to pose an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States; and
Whereas, the President has authority under the Constitution to take action to deter and prevent acts of international terrorism against the United States: Now, therefore, be it
Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
Section 1 - Short Title This joint resolution may be cited as the ‘Authorization for Use of Military Force’.
Section 2 - Authorization For Use of United States Armed Forces (a) IN GENERAL- That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.
(b) War Powers Resolution Requirements-
(1) SPECIFIC STATUTORY AUTHORIZATION- Consistent with section 8(a)(1) of the War Powers Resolution, the Congress declares that this section is intended to constitute specific statutory authorization within the meaning of section 5(b) of the War Powers Resolution.
(2) APPLICABILITY OF OTHER REQUIREMENTS- Nothing in this resolution supersedes any requirement of the War Powers Resolution.
Speaker of the House of Representatives.
Vice President of the United States and
President of the Senate.
Congress authorized the use of force against the Afghan Taliban immediately after 9/11. Was Bergdahl a POW? I doubt it, since everyone knew he walked away voluntarily.
Had this guy been captured prior to deserting would we really be questioning his status? No. We would be happy about his return.
I'm not sure what all the surprise has been about the way he ended up with the Taliban. I thought that was all common knowledge.
Thank you, I still think the whole thing since WWII has been murky and halfway done. Korea was a “Police Action”. Is there no longer a war/not war paradigm? I’m old. I used to think logic, common sense and honor were important. I can find none of that lately.
Yes, I know I’m asking rhetorical questions. With the current lawless regime, maybe some of the basics should be clarified.
I’m shocked so many Freepers think one can just casualy desert the military, and the Army (or any other branch) is going to come after the deserter. Has it really gotten that bad?
Easy WAR is whatever Eric Holder says it is..
And the White Hut tells him what to think..
“Is there no longer a war/not war paradigm? “
The principal reason the circumstances of war are “murky” is due to a lack of knowledge, a lot of disinformation about the subject, and a lot of inappropriate tinkering by lawyers and politicians misapplying their misinformation to take inappropriate actions. Truman’s description of the Korean War as a “Police Action” is just one such example of inappropriate and erroneous usage of the terminology.
I think you and the Calvinball post have nailed it. I can’t get over the feeling that this whole Obama thing is just a bad episode of the Twilight Zone. How do I wake up?
Bergdhal was never listed as a POW.
As for declaring war... we’ll never see that again because congress is incapable of doing so. All we have now is disputes or limited engagements that last years.
So, we’re not technically at war, but ARE at war for the consumption of the masses? Has anyone reconciled our “state of conflict” with an actual Declaration of War?
The reason I ask all of this is that many are not even aware of what actual war is, nor understand how we get there. War is serious, where “war” is political theater.
So how do we define a “Prisoner of Conflict”?
I understand what you said, but isn’t a Declaration of War required? Wishy-washy shit doesn’t cut it.
We are at war with Russia in Ukraine. Our paid for proxy professional sodiers are pushing the mess in Ukraine. Russian pov sees usurpation of Ukraine by 5 billion spent by EU-USA Maidan cabal that is escalating into hot war with Crimea as prize. Russia is shocked at ferocity of US led Ukraine war machine. Act 2 wont be pretty.
Yes we should have declared war and then step back and let the military do it’s job and keep politics out of it.
Had the military been allowed to do it’s job vice playing politics and political correctness we’d have been out of Afghanistan years ago, the Taliban and Al Qaeda would have been decimated and would think twice about ever attacking Americans anywhere ever again. Muslims and/or anyone else would think twice about fxcking with America.
To do so however, requires a set of balls and courage. American politicians and the so called POS in the WH have neither.
We may be incapable of declaring war, but Islam has declared war on us.
Take warning, my fellow “infidels”.
This is just one of the bad outcomes when you declare war on a euphemism (War on Terror/War on Drugs/War on Poverty, etc...).
On a related note, that's why the five dudes at Gitmo were never classified as POWs, either. They weren't uniformed soldiers and they weren't even citizens of the countries where they were captured.
Lastly, I'd say the answer to your question is No. The U.S. government hasn't formally declared war in decades. Bergdahl is not a POW because we're allegedly fighting a "War on Terror," according to the previous @sshole in the White House ... and "terror" never captures any soldiers.
No we’re not at war. Our military is.
“So, were not technically at war, but ARE at war for the consumption of the masses?”
Wrong, the United States is most definitely in an official and overt state of war against the “nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks....”
“Has anyone reconciled our state of conflict with an actual Declaration of War?”
The simplistic claims that an official declaration of war is necessary for the United States or another sovereign state to be engaged in a state of war are utterly wrong and without any valid basis in law, history, or morality. A formal declaration of war is appropriate and used only in certain narrow circumstances under the U.S. Constitution and under international law.
“The reason I ask all of this is that many are not even aware of what actual war is, nor understand how we get there. War is serious, where war is political theater.”
That is precisely the problem, “many are not even aware of what actual war is”, and many do not want to know what the definition of war is even when offered the opportunity to learn.
“So how do we define a Prisoner of Conflict?”
A prisoner of war is a “Prisoner of Conflict”, a hostage is a “Prisoner of Conflict”, and a number of other priosoners and detainees are also a “Prisoner of Conflict”.
This apparent deserter was reportedly not listed by the U.S. Army as a prisoner of war (POW). What his status and circumstances were while detained by the Taliban is yet to be determined.
Those comments are false propaganda from the Russians and are completely contrary to reality.
Abandonment of Ukraine legislature by paid off politicos was real time. They walked out with cash in the pockets - one brawl and then they fled - it was a group thing and the legislators gave up way before they needed to leave - looked very suspicious in real time.
Film of entry in to estate of former president was broadcast realtime. He lived like king tut!!
Everything was visible on broadcast internet - most in Russian and Ukrainian and some with english subtitles- the hospital and food cafeterias set up in the buildings along Maidan square were shown in real time. The millions of dollars of supplies provided by NGO's funded by the state dept were displayed in real time. Fullyy equipped emergency medical rooms, ammo, guns, all kinds of supplies were trucked into the Maidan Square. This is not propaganda when you see it for real with your own two eyes, broadcast live.
Ukrainians don't want to be moslems. Europe is falling to Islam and is not what it was 10 years ago. Even the Ukrainian Orthodox church is under pressure from the new world order to separate from Russian Control.
Russian Propaganda doesn't begin to cover what is going on. We are in a proxy war and are fighting for Islam. The US Govt fights for Allah, apparently.
“It’s not propaganda when you watch it in realtime on the internet. Maidan revolution was realtime. Watching policemen with no guns being picked off by snipers paid for by US cash funneled to Ukraine and firebombs in realtime was disgusting.”
There are two kinds of propaganda: true propaganda and false propaganda. You are disseminating false propaganda. The false prpaganda you are disseminating is practically boilerplate text from the Russian state propaganda services. The protests began on the Maidan in the first place in response to the Yanukovych administration’s kidnapping, torture, murder, and intimidation of citizens and journalists opposing the political corruption and criminal acts of oppression. The protestors generally opposed and avoided violence, with the exception of a few extremsts such as some Right Sector participants, until the Yanukovych administration ordered some of its police units, particularly the Berkut riot police, to inflict violence upon the protestors. This violent assault on the protestors ultimately culminated in the Berkut and some other police using sniper rifles to kill unarmed protestors. A few protestors fought back with Molotov cocktails and a few firearms, but nothing on the scale of the military force of the Berkut.
The former head of the Ukrainian security services, SBU, was a Russian espionage agent as a holdover from the Soviet KGB intelligence services era. President Yanukovych was also an agent of Russia’s intelligence services working as a collaborator for the Russians to subvert the Ukrainian government and socity. Putin aided Yanukovych and his allies with their oligarchic aspiratons, just as Putin and Yletsin had done so in Russia. Putin and yanukovych used the Russian controlled Ukrainian Berkut riot police and Ukrainian SBU security service to commit the vote fraud that put Yanukovych in office as President and maintain him in that office even if it meant murdering dissidents and killing protestors in the Maidan with sniper rifles.
Yet here you are doing everything in your power to relay yet again the Russian false propaganda that attempts to coverup the Russian efforts to subvert and overthrow any form of democrtic Ukrainian government and intimidate dissidents with murder, torture, and persecution. A fine example is your false comment, “Watching policemen with no guns being picked off by snipers paid for by US cash funneled to Ukraine and firebombs in realtime was disgusting.” The videos clearly show the policemen were heavily armed with armored personnel carriers, assault rifles, sniper rifles, and used those firearms to kill and murder unarmed protestors. In fact, even if there had been a fullblown war in progress, the Ukrainian police forces operating under the command of Ukrainian officers collaborating with Russian intelligence services were shooting unarmed people in ways that can be prosecuted as war crimes if the people being shot had been legitimate combat soldiers. In other words, there is no excuse whatsoever for their murderous actions or for your false reversal of the roles paled by the police and the protestors. You are simply serving as a disinformation agent and false propagandist for the Russian and their criminal actions.
“Abandonment of Ukraine legislature by paid off politicos was real time. They walked out with cash in the pockets - one brawl and then they fled - it was a group thing and the legislators gave up way before they needed to leave - looked very suspicious in real time.”
That comment is yet more false propaganda. The Rada fulfilled its obligations despite being heavily infiltrated with Delegates serving as collaborators for the Russian efforts to subvert and overthrow the citizens’ control of the Ukrainian government.
“Film of entry in to estate of former president was broadcast realtime. He lived like king tut!!”
Yes, and the Ukrainians such as Yanukovych and his ministers responsible for this oligarchic and criminal excess were collaborators and/or agents for the Russian intelligence services. They were simply members of the same organized crime group as Putin and Yeltsin, competing amongst themselves for control of their respective post-Soviet governments. The same is true of other such post-Soviet governments as belarus, Kazahkstan, and so forth.
The rest of your comments mindlessly repeats the false Russian propaganda in an effort to distrat attention away from Russia’s criminal acts and role in instigating the Ukrainain conflicts in an effort to destablize the Ukraine’s government, economy, and society. for example, your comment repeats the Russian accusations of Muslim influence in the Ukraine at the same time Russia and Putin recruit Muslims into the Russian Ground Forces and use them in irregular special operations battalions such as the Vostok Battalion in the role of unlawful infiltrators and terrorists in violation of the Hague Conventions and other international law respecting the laws of warfare.