Skip to comments.Do "Lockdowns" Make Sense? - vanity question
Posted on 06/05/2014 7:37:52 PM PDT by Loud Mime
Again we have another shooting where the "authorities" locked down the campus. This makes absolutely NO sense to me. It seems that a group of unarmed students sitting inside a classroom makes a wonderful target for any nutcase.
Am I right? I have no actual law enforcement or true combat experience.
Please post your opinions.
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Not in Texas.
“Active shooter at the corner of First and Maine...” should be followed by “Everyone is advised to aim carefully”
Be prepared for a lot of “lock and load” replies.
(Not that there’s anything wrong with that.):-)
If the shooter is outside, it makes sense. Don’t let the shooter in.
Ideally, there are armed good guys to defend against the shooter, but slowing the bad guy down to give time for the cops to arrive, set up a perimeter, shoot the nearest dog, flashbang an infant and eventually confront the shooter.
The police management technique of “lockdown” and shelter in place has NOTHING to do with protecting the population. It has everything to do with identification of the perp.
Think about this, if the perp goes and kills a few people, and panic sets in and everyone runs, the perp can easily drop weapons and join the crowd.
If however, all of the sheeple are down and not moving, the perp will have to expose himself to move on to new targets.
No, I think it’s pathetic even if there actually is a nutcase.
Nevermind the message it sends. Now you are saying people/children are not allowed to escape?
Sort of like the common nonsense dispensed by police now, “don’t be a hero”, go ahead and die.
The interview with the gal at SPU (senior). She said they followed protocal and locked the doors, closed the windows. One or two guys grabbed objects as clubs and stayed by the door (good on them!).
The professor told the kids to “put their heads down and concentrate on your work” (IDIOT!)
As I was listening I reminded my HS daughters what I have told them before. Arm yourself with whatever you can and hide, unless you have clear access out a window or something to escape (I don’t care what the teacher says). My one daughter is gung ho for it. The other one is “Oh sure dad - like me and my scissors or heavy book is going to stop some guy with a gun.”
“Well honey, it is better than cowering under a desk and waiting for him as a sitting duck.”
A lockdown is usually to secure the buildings, and area. This action notes that there is an armed intruder, hostages, or a suspect in the area, and until they know how many there are, they do not want the students or building occupants moving around.
Descriptions can be sketchy and the police do not want to shoot or apprehend an innocent victim, who could be mistaken for the intruder. Knowing where people are helps them when the suspect is spotted and they want to do a takedown.
Chaos is a bad scenario, and when people are scared they act inappropriately... it’s not safe. When a lockdown is done properly and like a firedrill... it has been practiced...it makes people safe from suspects who will be the only ones moving around....and then police can do their job efficiently.
It definitely makes sense if you are a team of Muslim terrorists and want to take over a school. Local cooperation is very important to them. Having kids make for the hills reduces their catch.
The idea of a lockdown is to make sure that all the dead bodies are piled in a single location. It makes it easier for the crime scene people.
Also if students were able to escape from a crazed gunman in a gun free zone, then the left wouldn’t be able to use the tragedy to destroy the constitution.
More victims = better press for their agenda.
If the crazy gunmen are always getting shot down by armed Americans quickly - saving lives, that would be bad news for the left.
If the shooter is inside you've just created a fish-in-a-barrel shooting gallery.
Good advice. Good for you!
What would be a good alternative?
I work in a K12 school, we have intruder lockdown drills. Classroom doors are locked, (they are mostly locked during classes anyway) outside doors that aren’t already locked are secured and students are moved to a corner of the room that can’t be seen from the hall.The building is a 5 acre maze of hallways, one school resource officer and his glock is all we currently have, however the state (Missouri) is considering allowing teachers to be armed with proper training. Many of my co workers have CCW, not sure how many carry now.
Like the cattle chutes used at events and museums and such. In philly the convention hall used to be open with people milling about. now they are stuck all in a small space. Easier to take out about 50-100 people.
well the fire drills we have in my office are for one purpose only. Control. not necessarily safety. We all stand by the door waiting for the plane to come thru the window. The drill should be an orderly exit out of the building. I don’t care how tall it is.
Hard to say. I was in a shooting at my company, ESL in Sunnyvale, Ca. 7 of my co-workers were killed were killed by Richard Farley.
I’m very thankful that I quickly got out of the building. One of my co-workers was my hero. He went around telling everyone that there was a man with a gun shooting people and we needed to get out.
Farley went around to all the offices shooting people ans computers. My office was in the pathway, and I was very lucky to have been in a meeting on the other side of the building.
Farley was in the building for 5 hours, and I know people who wete trapped there.
I would never just sit there. I would get out, and I’ve told my kids the same thing. I’ve told them to be very aware of the surroundings, and try to get out. I told them to ignire their teachers if they have to .
When I was in a shooting, we all orderly escaped. We did not panic. It was actually very calm and making sure everyone was okay. We did not run, but just quickly got out while being very aware of the situation.
I got people into the next building by pointing out that the shooter could shoot out of the windows.
My co-workers were amazing!
“Lockdown” is a prison term and action. When there was an altercation, other inmates were locked into their cells until order was restored or as punishment for misbehaviors.
Now, it is being used to lock people into an building... but the people are not secured in the same way. I would find a way out instead of the possibility of being locked in with some monster.
Want to know what “punked” REALLY means?! laughing...
Just this week I heard the administrator responsible for security in our school explain how the lockdown concept is changing. He told us that next year the instructions will be to lockdown and shelter in place only in the affected part of the building. The rest are to evacuate. Announcements will be explicit - no coded messages. There will be additional updates to our building security equipment in the summer. I’ll be interested to hear more come September.
That’s the guy. Can you believe he is still on death row?
At Virginia Tech, classrooms can be locked from the inside. That hopefully prevents a shooter from going from room to room.
Your assumption is the police will enter the building in a timely manner. At Columbine that for sure didn’t happen. At that time I complained of this wait and secure the building tactic and was told by several LEO’s well we don’t want the police going in blazing like John Wayne with an active shooter-—WTF? Did I say John Wayne and guns blazing—no. But you do go in and attempt to engage the shooter or shooters or otherwise your job is just to remove the bodies and fill out reports.
I have told mine you fight back with whatever you have and do whatever you have to do to the shooter to stop him and if you know the shooter is for sure inside and have an easy escape route outside take it and put distance between you and the shooter I don’t care what the teacher says. If they want to be a sitting duck they are welcome to do so but not with my children.
As posted the police want to not let the shooter escape in a stampede but at what cost? Are three or four more shot and wounded or killed people worth it?
I taught Criminal Justice at the Community College level in HS. I gave the standard answer used to explain a ‘lock down’ to someone wanting to know.
Your opinion of the definition does not apply here, because I wasn’t giving an opinion but a definition. So even though you don’t conform or want your children to obey...it is usual policy.
I understand on the ground things may be handled differently in various jurisdictions by the police. Now, however most schools have a policy coordinated with local police, and that policy is not to be deviated from... mainly so chaos does not get innocent people killed during the incident. Simple as that.
A general rule is not to have people running around without a goal or destination when armed police are trying to apprehend a suspect. That applies in most situations.
Common sense says Teachers should be blocking their doors with their desks and other hard to move items...if they have time. And most classroom doors are solid depending on the school design. So unless the shooter is looking in windows from the outside they cannot see if there are students in that room. Of course many shooters are students so they would know the routine and class schedules.
Columbine was a shock to everyone and it influenced the lock down procedure and much of what law enforcement has implemented in school districts since 1999. However as much as I may agree with you in some circumstances.... each situation is different. Schools must have a plan in place that all students know, and they don’t usually change it at the time of attack or at the spur of the moment.
Just remember Murphy’s law, and although you tell your children not to be a ‘sitting duck’, how would you feel if they ran from the room and were ‘shot and killed’ because you told them to? The safety plan is a general plan due to the fact that school shooters do not post their attack plan and what is in place covers the largest number of scenarios.
I believe it is important to use your common sense and intuition...just because you have training does not mean certain scenaris wouldn’t need you to improvise to protect students...the guidelines are in place but know the consequences, if you make the wrong decision.
Well it is California
The standdown at Columbine H.S. angered many people.
The police had one question before them, who to protect:
a. The unarmed students inside the school?
b. The armed officers outside the school?