Skip to comments.The Voice of a Prophet: Solzhenitsyn on the Ukraine Crisis
Posted on 06/06/2014 4:59:51 AM PDT by Rashputin
The Voice of a Prophet - Solzhenitsyn on the Ukraine Crisis
by Joseph Pearce
The greatest difficulty arose from the ethnic mix in the Ukraine itself in which, in different regions of the country, there were different proportions of those who consider themselves Ukrainians, those who consider themselves Russians and those who consider themselves neither. Maybe it will be necessary to have a referendum in each region and then ensure preferential and delicate treatment of those who would want to leave. For this to happen, the Ukraine would need to show the same restraint and good sense towards the regions in which Russians predominated as Russia needed to show to the Ukraine as a whole. This was especially necessary because of the arbitrary nature of the area designated as belonging to the Ukraine: Not the whole of Ukraine in its current formal Soviet borders is indeed Ukraine. Some regions
clearly lean more towards Russia. As for Crimea, Khrushchevs decision to hand it over to Ukraine was totally arbitrary. The way in which ethnic Ukrainians treated the ethnic Russians within these largely arbitrary borders would serve as a test: while demanding justice for themselves, how just will the Ukrainians be to Carpathian Russians?
(Excerpt) Read more at theimaginativeconservative.org ...
I wish it didn't have to be an an excerpt as the article isn't all that long but very interesting and worth reading IMHO.
Thanks so much for posting.
Why is it that Ukrainians and Russians even marched together in the Maidan, and yet, all of a sudden we are supposed to believe that everyone is racist towards each other? Again, let's go over the four facts:
1) Poroshenko, the new President of Ukraine, received a majority of votes from all over Ukraine, including the South and East.
2) Turnout broke records, even without the areas where the Islamics and Communists sent from Moscow disrupted the election.
3) Unlike in Moscow, international observers found no problems.
4) The results were consistent with polls in both the East and South that showed that the separatists are a micro-minority, even under the target zone of Moscow's propaganda war. The Citizens of Ukraine want a united country and do not want to be torn apart by Moscow. Here is a map that shows all the precincts that went to Poroshenko. The red went to him. The grey color represents those areas where no vote occurred.
Now unless all your racist Russkies who just hate the Ukrainians so bad they can't stand it are all packed into that gray little zone, where is this racial tribalism between ethnic Russians and ethnic Ukrainians? Why is it that every time this question is measured, whether by Pew, other international polls, and finally by a Presidential vote itself, that none of this "We hate Ukraine, we want to be annexed by Putin because we are safer and freer there (LOL)" ever comes out?
Here's another question. Why is the self-proclaimed "Prime Minister" of that communist little group, who is supposed to be fighting to protect the Russian ethnicity (like all good Nazis), openly celebrate the Islamic Chechens whom Vladimir Putin is flooding into Ukraine? These same Chechens were not so long ago killing Russians. Even the Islamic dictator of Chechnya, who now says Putin should be President for life (because Putin sends him billions of dollars), boasts that he killed his first Russian at the age of 16.
Isn't there a problem here?
SOUNDBITE 1 - Aleksander Boroday, prime minister of self-declared Donetsk People's Republic (man, Russian, 21 sec): "Chechens are Russian people, no matter what nationality they hold and they protect Russian people in Donetsk and Lugansk, because they consider this land their own motherland, just like any other city, town or village of the Russian federation."
SOUNDBITE 2 - Aleksander Boroday, prime minister of self-declared Donetsk People's Republic (man, Russian 18 sec): "I would like to tell you than Chechens are great patriots of Russia and they are ready to protect their Ukrainian brothers because Russia and Ukraine are actually the same people."
Looks like the right place to move the border to.
This is a great article and it makes the Ukraine situation clear(er) and also shows just how REALLY ignorant OBozo is for orchestrating his butt-in foreign policy!
Yes, nice place to move the border to if you are a statist Muscovite hungry for outright conquest and theft through force.
Yes yes, Obama who can barely pull up his pants was able to manage a conspiracy so intricate that it even forced Russian agents in Ukraine to murder at his bidding.
This is an example of the principle that people learn nothing from the obvious lessons of history. For at least 200 years, since the rise of nationalism after the French Revolution, political movements have persisted in the belief that each ethnic group needs its own country. This is in spite of the fact that (in eastern Europe especially) ethnicities were scattered like spots on a Jackson Pollock painting. Every national movement sought its historic or ethnic boundaries, which almost always were more than they occupied at the present. Never once has a serious leader announced the following: I discover that out nation of Ruritania really is bigger than the territory settled by our folk, and so beginning tomorrow we intend to trim off 30% off our territorial holdings, so as to contract our territory to our central core geography. We expect to have friendly relations, and especially free trade with all our neighbors.
That is a fantasy. Leaders always want more, and as is often the case, they frame aggression as defense. Even Hitler did this: what a nice fellow, always so concerned to protect German minorities in other countries (though not so nice about his treatment of minorities under his own control).
Putin is following the Hitler tactic, except that he is much more cautious and cunning. Also, another difference is that Putin is less romantic than Hitler, and more pragmatic. Nonetheless, the two are closely similar in numerous ways, and even in some small details.
But who is noticing? Surely not the leaders in the West. Merkel is functionally a Russophile, having dismantled German nuclear-energy, creating a great dependence on Russian fossil fuels, while cluttering the landscape with subsidized windmills and solar panels which simply do not do the job.
Just think: France has a more rational energy policy than Germany! Who would have imagined this?
Interesting article. Thanks for posting.
Was the USA and NATO like Hitler in bombing Serbia for 72 days to forcibly strip Kosovo from its sovereign territory, creating an ethnic enclave?
Aren’t the Ukrainian separatists just following the example and precedent set by the USA less than 20 years earlier?
Great contribution; very interesting. Thanks.
I’ve been thinking along these lines for quite some time, although I’m loath to air these views in the company of my Ukrainian friends.
“Today, almost six years after his death, Solzhenitsyns position is still the only sane and safe solution to the Ukrainian crisis. Those regions of eastern Ukraine which desire to secede from the Ukrainian-dominated west of the country should be allowed to do so. There are already two nations in the de facto sense. It makes sense, therefore, that this de facto reality should be honoured with de jure status.”
The blue and tan map is very misleading. For one thing, (assuming that it is in the least accurate), it only shows majorities. Then it assumes that everyone goes with their linguistic affinities.
The fact is that Russian and Ukrainian languages are very similar, and there is a long joint history. The Rus dynasty of Kiev is looked upon as the beginning of Russia.
A professor from one of the Siberian universities wrote that there is no reason why Russia and Ukraine should not live in peace on the friendliest of terms. They are in many ways as close as English-speaking Canadians and Americans. The violence is manipulated. The professor promptly lost his position, and will have to find other work.
Nowhere is anyone mentioning the religious differences among the population of Ukraine. Yet Ukrainians ghet along. There is even considerable intermarriage. It is clear that the problems are stirred up from the outside. The motive is also clear: Putin wanted Crimea for its naval access, and now he wants more direct access to Crimea. He also fears any prosperity in Uraine, or anything which might compare well with Russia. He also wants a greater Russia.
Dictators who can make it at home (with low productivity and discontent) ofttimes turn to foreign aggression. Putin likes to look tough. We can speculate, for what personal failings is he compensating? But what we see for sure is than he is cunning, brutal,m and aggressive. He is not a nice guy.
The only 'racist' spewing hate here is you punk.
And the eagerness with which you push the Kerry/Clinton/Obama line on this forum is disturbing.
Why don't you piss off back to whichever liberal ngo pays you to troll here and let the adults have a conversation ?
Ukraine must be free to choose its own future, for itself and by itself, - Barack Obama
But not the Donetsk People’s Republic Mr. President? How hypocritical can you be.
Excellent article, Rashputin; thanks for posting. It is useful to recognize that multi-ethnic nation states are modern exceptions and not the rule throughout history, especially in Europe. Large, multi-ethnic states are often cobbled together by force within arbitrary boundaries, or else absorb additional ethnicities by conquest and/or immigration. In all cases, there is a natural and persistent tension that tries to tear such states apart along ethnic lines, and which eventually succeeds as events fracture tenuous non-ethnic ties. Solzhenitsyn recognized this, and the common-sense principle of Subsidiarity provides the logical solution for dealing with the “separatist” phase of civilization’s undulating cycle.
What you been smokin? Between Ukraine and Russia, Ukraine is the basket case.
More of your third grade insults to anyone who doesn't tow Putin's line?
I wonder, are you able to rationally explain why those of us who oppose Putin must necessarily worship Obama?
The irony is that not only have you been describing the Ukrainians as Nazis (and one of your Putinist buddies have even described Ukrainians, as a race, as incapable of having their own state), and advocating the dividing of their country from behind your computer screen (how about you mind your own business and get your nose out of Ukraine?), but they are, actually, the most communist and anti-semitic forces this world has ever seen!
This is from the recent unveiling of their new fancy flag over in Lugansk. Notice what's on the wall next to that commie?
And, hey, what are these? Are these freedom fighting ethnic Russians hoping to get away from oppressive Nazi Ukrainian Junta?
That hand sign by the way means "No God but Allah," or something along those lines, apparently.
Unlike you pack of Paulistinian conspiracy theorists, I've got the facts to make it clear what's going on here. The fact is, the Kremlin supports every communist organization in the world, and even aids and abets terrorism. They are even building their own Islamic Caliphate in Chechnya, paid for by Russian tax dollars, and have used Chechens to invade countries like Georgia, and now Ukraine. Meanwhile, Putin is establishing Iran as a nuclear power, and you bunch of goobers are spamming me about supporting "Kerry" or the "Zionist-EU-Soros" conspiracy, when we're in the middle of a new cold war!
Why does one building filled with Communists and Islamists get to take over Ukraine? One man one vote, I say.
How true. For example, a solution to consider for Afghanistan is to split it into several nations based upon ethnicity. Instead of wasting effort and resources on internal differences, each region could be internally stable. But one nation is easier for the West to control. In fact the British deliberately hobbled together various people groups -- and split others like the Pashtuns between Afghanistan and Pakistan -- to create weak problem-laden nations.
Perhaps, the whole concept of a nation should be changed. Perhaps a nation should be considered temporary, with each province / state having to periodically reaffirm its desire to remain in the union. The central government must deliver a product that is seen of value to the entities. If states are forced to remain contrary to their will it is tyranny.
So because you guys elected a jerk, who sided with Albanian criminals against Serbian criminals to cover his pathetic sexual affairs, now Russian inspired terrorism is somehow justified ? Great logic :)))
Just think: France has a more rational energy policy than Germany! Who would have imagined this?”
It's not that Merkel doesn't notice... KGB has a damn load of “assets” in Germany... both their own and taken over from Stasi (their files ended up in Moscow) and Merkel herself comes from East Germany... People in the west have no clue how Russians operates, same goes for hordes of pro-Russian Internet trolls...
Thought you might be interested in this discussion.
Now they are using "massive" destruction because they simply will be out of military power....unfortunately today slamming heavily in regions. "For show" at the expense of the citizens and their comunities....but the EAstern fighters have re-inforcements now and heavy military eequipment.
CONFIRMED: Antonov AN-30 used by Ukraine forces for check NAF positions was SHOT DOWN over Slavyansk..pilots escaped
Pro-Russian rebels fire weapons during clashes with Ukrainian troops on the outskirts of Luhansk, Ukraine, June 2, 2014
Aside from Poland and Germany the whole area surrounding and including Ukraine is a mixture of nationalities....however it’s been clear,and remains so, that Western Ukraine and Eastern Ukraine have been and will remain divided by their clear differences in culture and nationality.....
Trying to draw from history takes people back into the 60’s mentality where they believe sincerely that the Russia today is the same as USSR and the thinking of that time..it’s not...though some of the Russian people remain in that mindset...the younger generations have moved well beyond it....no longer communist minded as Putin himself is not...he has moved many above that mindset.
Never mind what Putin says...he’s refrained from taking over Ukraine because he doesn’t want it nor what is left of it...unfortunately the EU and US will abandon them all in good time, and after they’ve plundered the resources to outsiders.
If people are unfamiliar with the geopolitics and how the Eu/Us/Nato Alliances operate on the world stage ‘today’...then they have nothing left but to draw from oldtime cold war vocabulary which we see consistantly creeping up and creating more problems then is helpful to the Ukraine Crisis. Too bad for Obama because the old cold war minded people continue to advise him and why he cannot make the right moves no matter what he does...and why he’s out of the loop.
I wonder if this is true.
BREAKING #Ukraine MP Victor Chumak accuses #Russia planes of “locking on” 2 #ATO planes during border battle #cdnpoli http://uacrisis.org/viktor-chumak-2/
I don’t think Putin will take Ukraine as so many have indicated or he certainly could have done so by now...he simply isn’t interested now as deals are being struck economically with EU/Porsh and other countries surrounding Ukraine...not long before Porsh and Putin will do their dealing as well.
As for Eastern areas where Putin has 300+ standing contracts with the Industry there and otherwise....those will get hashed over...but I understand some of the Industry is and may move out of Ukraine...as said..Putin can do what he does other places. ....and is. Especially in light of EuroAsia now a sealed deal...Putins moved on pretty much.
“Now unless all your racist Russkies who just hate the Ukrainians so bad”
OMFG... That’s just HILARIOUS!
Now you are resorting to the MSNBC-style Racism dog-whistle!!!!
Gotta admit, even though I know you are a propaganda troll, this kind of desperation is quite funny to see.
I saw yesterday ‘Ukraine’s jets had breached Russian airspace’..which might be why they locked on...and if they did then of course Russia’s watching their border and will respond as they see fit. This overreach is not new...happens frequently throughout the world...this is a reoprter who wants a good story....
It’s stunning though that with all the bombing and destruction that Kiev Gov is doing in Ukraine they do tend to act like children having kissy fits when they get put in their place.....from telling half truths to outright lying in order not to have the finger at them..which is where it belongs.
I don’t think it will go that far. The three western provinces are most likely gone, and with them most of the assets the IMF wants as loans assurances.
I thought originally that the unrest would extend down to Meltipol, but that doesn’t seem to be the case at this point.
I’m more curious about what is going on in and around Dnepropetrovsk. This the area under Kolomoisky and the Right Sector’s control. Not much news of local conditions seems to be getting out, and there have been unconfirmed twitter rumors of brutal repressions against dissenters.
Just today there are reports that some 1,500 locally recruited conscripts have mutinied there, refusing to go west and fight.
“The motive is also clear: Putin wanted Crimea for its naval access, and now he wants more direct access to Crimea.”
Putin already had naval access to Crimea. What he couldn’t allow was Western Control over that access.
I keep coming back to a primary point.
If the Obama Administration hadn’t destabilized an already unstable Ukraine, backing the most violent and ideological groups in the Maidan in an attempt to “get back” at Putin for the Syrai b—chslapping, there would still be a Ukrainian Flag flying over Crimea, and the Western provinces.
It’s becoming good entertainment ......
BTW You gotta see this!.....brief meet up between Obama and Putin in Warsaw...no love lost there! Men at work!
“That hand sign by the way means “No God but Allah,” or something along those lines, apparently.”
It means “Peace/Love”, you idiot. You’ll find it used on just about any college campus, anywhere.
It could also mean that the person giving the sign is a member of The Laitin Kings, an American Hispanic Street Gang, if you see it in a prison.
see post 33...Awesome quick shot/video of Putin and Obama unplanned or press ready meetup...Obama’s charm doesn’t work with Putin
“I wonder if this is true. BREAKING Ukraine MP Victor Chumak accuses Russia planes of locking on 2 ATO planes during border battle”
It probably is true...
They were strafing literally 10-20 yards away from the border. In the pics of the border post, you can see debris has fallen on the Russian side of the post, too.
Doing combat ops that close to the border, they should probably be thankful that all the Russians did was lock them.
“Why does one building filled with Communists and Islamists get to take over Ukraine?”
You mean the current occupants of the White House?
Keep pumping that dead horse of yours and trying to convince people it's really a beautiful woman.
It makes your regurgitation of and defense of whatever the Kiev Kiddies spew out that much funnier.
As always, King Barry didn't "manage" anything, he's the smiley face for the US branch of international thugs and murderers like those who have always run Chicago, just on a grand scale.
From the article:
The way in which ethnic Ukrainians treated the ethnic Russians within these largely arbitrary borders would serve as a test: while demanding justice for themselves, how just will the Ukrainians be to Carpathian Russians?
Everyone can plainly see how Ukrainians treat others and it doesn't include "one man one vote" or any other aspect of democracy for anyone who the Ukraine Oligarchs can't control. Ukrainian "democracy" is just like the media garbage about the "new" President. President Candyman is in reality nothing but the Don of a different faction of the same old criminal mob that's run the country since it became the shotgun wedding pride of Western "nation builders" via thousands of flowery promises for working folks and millions of dollars in bribes for the power-brokers.
Propagandists out themselves by going along with obvious absurdities like the Ukraine election being "A-Ok" when one held in Syria under similar circumstances is "unacceptable" because "freedom fighters" are fighting the Syrian government but only "foreign terrorists" are fighting the Kiev Coup Kiddies mob run facade of a "government".
Just what sort of liars the inept crowd in Kiev really are is obvious from the quality of the lame apologists they have wondering the web blabbering the same trash when anyone even mentions Ukraine without praising the Kiev Coup Kiddies. Jeez, now we're told even Solzhenitsyn was an ignorant dolt.
If King Barry is in supporting a group like the jerks in Kiev, that group is as intent as he is on destroying "the West" to create a godless, pagan, international nobility with the middle class reduced to peasants along with a few favored "civil servants" and the poor reduced to serfdom without even the few trivial freedoms the peasants may retain.
That's exactly why the world's crony capitalist fascists like Barry and EU support godless pagan Muzzies every way they can. The vast majority of Muzzies accept their lot of being ruled over by and pissed on by a nobility because All Ugh says it should be that way. They're the perfect sacrificial shock troops for Nietzsche's supermen in the US/EU/NATO machine to use wherever they meet resistance they can't bribe or outlaw. As a bonus, Muzzies don't require all the lengthy eugenics hassle of breeding supermen who would expect to be part of the nobility.
The only reason those "poor little Ukraine Tartars" aren't slaughtering Southeastern Ukraine Christians yet is because the Ukraine Naziboy wannabes are too cheap to pay what the Imams are asking in return for bringing their experienced butchers home from Afghanistan, Libya, and Syria. As those portions of the Ukraine Army that don't desert get worn down Candyman will realize there's no one in Southeast Ukraine to bribe and no one he can easily intimidate. Then he'll do what what King Barry does; pay whatever it costs (no hand signs required) to bring in the Muzzie shock troops.
Russia fights Iz Lame, the US, EU, and NATO aid Iz Lame, but Ukraine propaganda regurgitators portray Putin and Russia as what's threatening Western Civilization at every turn?
Putin's no nice guy by any means but then again, that's because he knows reality is harsh; Pol Pot, 9/11, Beslin, harsh. The people in the US still haven't come to grips with that reality which is why they're so easily led into becoming rabidly dedicated to patently absurd misrepresentations of reality when they're not focused on their dope or genitalia.
Sorry, I don’t open files. Do you have a video link?
this should work
DIA and NI periodically escape the clutches of that sort but their assessments are very carefully buried by the bigger fish.
Then you get people like both Bush and Bush who were still gullible when it came to respecting the educational credentials of such folks or like the slobbering idiot Clintoon who, "read a book about Tito" then knew what "he had to do" in Yugoslavia.
Interesting body language...
Obama is trying to talk down to him in his usual condescending BS way, and Putin is clearly tired of his BS.
Just like Putin, along with worldwide communism, though in your delusional rant you called the latter a "realist." In the end, you actually admire a thief and killer, who is probably an even bigger poser than Obama when it comes to his image. At least Hitler, with all his conquering and killing, had actually been a decorated combat veteran. Putin has never had any military training, and all his experience is in working for the Russkie version of the Gestapo.
You are an anti-American all because of Obama, falling for the stupid conspiracy theories of the Alex Jones types, meanwhile you take everything that the Russian Obama tells you at face value, and refuse to face facts. In the end, your "realism" has you on the side of Communism and Islam, which you apologize for and ignore.
People like you, Buchanan, and other losers who have fallen in love with Putin need to be purged from the movement. I suspect it is a combination of inner-admiration for fascism, as demonstrated by a killer like Putin, as well as the self-hatred, the anti-Americanism, taught by the Ron Paul types. The world will be a better place when the Liberaltarian/Paulistinian types are out of our hair, and we can have real patriots like Ted Cruz and others who understand the threat from Moscow and Beijing, as well as their Islamic allies like Iran. Even Syria, which you goobers only support because Obama wanted to attack them, hate Israel and even call guys like David Duke admirable.
The only reason those "poor little Ukraine Tartars" aren't slaughtering Southeastern Ukraine Christians yet
Meanwhile, there have already been tortured to death Tatars found in the woods in Crimea, shortly after being seen picked up by Russian "police." Ethnic Ukrainians have already disappeared too as well. In one case, a Ukrainian boy was beaten to death by two Russian police officers because he spoke Ukrainian to them. His mother went to the police station and was laughed at. That's what happens when the Kremlin employs gangsters and psycopaths to take over a country. The new "Prime Minister" in Crimea apparently is known by the Russian mob name "The Goblin," and he became prime minister by walking into the Crimean Rada and being very persuasive. He was followed by Russian soldiers wielding grenade launchers.
But that's realism for you, the delusional Putin fan.
It always seems to come down to that, doesn't it?
Apparently, outside their own liberal wings (which I don't by any means endorse) chrstians outside the American Bible Belt seem to hold as an article of faith that Zionism is a "satanic" movement to bring the "antichrist" to power.
No wonder they hate Genesis so much.
If a bearded guy with a funny hat who is weilding a machine gun and tells people he is from Chechnya does it, I'm pretty sure it means "No God but Allah."
The guy is showing the cyber-punk “Peace/love” hand sign, compare the pics....
It’s just not that hard for a thinking person.
Yes, he is a cyber-punk. He hacks into computers with the microchip hidden in his beard.
Solzhenitsyn seemed to be advocating for a federalist approach to the regions inside Ukraine. This is essentially the same approach advocated by Russia in the negotiations that led up to the fascist coup in February.
It will be interesting to see how quickly the new President grabs back the powers negotiated away by Yanukovitch, and whether the so-called ‘reformers’ in Parliament allow that to happen.
Why is that so hard for people to understand?