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Federal effort could outlaw old ivory
Winston-Salem Journal ^ | May 29, 2014 | Terry Kovel/King Feature Syndicate

Posted on 06/07/2014 8:44:33 AM PDT by Bratch

An heirloom bronze elephant with ivory tusks, great-grandmother's piano with ivory keys, a vintage ivory chess set or an antique silver teapot with a small ivory inset in the handle to keep it cool may be "endangered" by proposed laws that could be in place sometime in June. Buying, selling or importing ivory from recently killed African elephants already is illegal and has been for about 25 years.

But an executive order issued by President Barack Obama would extend the ban to include all antique ivory harvested from elephants that died before 1914. There would be a law forbidding sales, even gifts to museums, of any ivory, including antique pieces. This affects antiques dealers and collectors, knife makers and collectors, Inuit craftsmen, owners of mahjong and chess sets, and manufacturers of musical instruments, including guitars and violins — the list could go on. And those in favor of strong endangered species laws want to also insist that all confiscated antique carved ivory art be destroyed — not even given to a museum.

Already thousands of pounds of ivory art objects have been destroyed. This will cause huge losses to companies, collectors and museums. Express your opinion in this controversy.

There's still time to contact your U.S. senator, representative or the Fish & Wildlife Service to make your thoughts known. For links to more detailed information, go to www.kovels.com/latest-news/new-ivory-ban.html.

(Excerpt) Read more at journalnow.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: executiveorders; ivory; obama
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Formatted for message board reading.

Other than news that the music industry will probably be exempt, it's very difficult to find current information about this on the internet using Google.

I wonder why?

1 posted on 06/07/2014 8:44:33 AM PDT by Bratch
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To: Bratch

Will the treasonous, selfserving
EXEMPT Congress EXEMPT itself, its staff,
its families, AND ALL MOSLEMS, again.

Count on it.


2 posted on 06/07/2014 8:49:10 AM PDT by Diogenesis
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To: Bratch

I wonder if this will include mammoth ivory as well.


3 posted on 06/07/2014 8:53:51 AM PDT by fhayek
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To: Bratch

This has to be satire since the president does not have the authority write law.

Executive orders are directives to the management of the executive branch, nothing more.

If this president (or any president) had the authority to write any law they wanted we would no longer be a Republic, we would be a dictatorship.

(One caveat. if the original law allowed the regulatory body that oversees this law the authority to change the time limit for “old ivory”, then the president as the chief executive officer would be able to direct the head of that department (via an executive order) to change the time limit.)


4 posted on 06/07/2014 8:55:01 AM PDT by CIB-173RDABN (I do not doubt that our climate changes. I only doubt that anything man does has any effect.)
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To: Bratch
Ivory fell out of favor as a material for jewellery and trinkets long ago in the west. It might be illegal to import the stuff, but nobody really wants it anyway. I mean its not as if there are hordes of illegal ivory traders risking life and limb to bring it in.

If you really wanted to stop the ivory trade, the best bet might be to completely legitimise it. The market would then be absolutely flooded with cheap, high quality stuff from the western world that people were trying to get rid of, and thereby do the poachers completely out of business. Problem solved. Do you think that will happen? Not a chance.

5 posted on 06/07/2014 8:56:31 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: Bratch

How exactly are they going to enforce this attempt at erasing cultural history.?
Door to Door inspections ?


6 posted on 06/07/2014 8:58:11 AM PDT by moose07 (the truth will out ,one day. .............................................)
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To: Bratch

SWAT teams ready to enforce with no knock raids.


7 posted on 06/07/2014 8:58:40 AM PDT by Rusty0604
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To: CIB-173RDABN
....the president does not have the authority write law.

Says who? You?

8 posted on 06/07/2014 8:58:42 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Rat Party Policy:Lie,Deny,Refuse To Comply)
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To: Bratch

If there is stupidity to be found, its a pretty good bet that government is nearby.

A few years back a Michigan man was arrested for possession of his own legally hunted polar bear mount. He had gone to Canada legally bought a license from the natives and hunted the bear. He had it mounted and when he tried to bring it home he was turned back at the border so he snuck it across the St Mary’s river in the middle of the night. Somebody turned him in.


9 posted on 06/07/2014 8:58:55 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin.)
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To: Vanders9
Ivory fell out of favor as a material for jewelery and trinkets long ago in the west.

That's probably true but it's my understanding that it's still very *much* in demand in the Middle East and Far East.If I'm correct in that belief that argues strongly in favor of laws prohibiting the sale of "new" ivory.But "old" ivory is a different story,IMO.I believe that that is what our Community Organizer-In-Chief is addressing here.

10 posted on 06/07/2014 9:02:56 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Rat Party Policy:Lie,Deny,Refuse To Comply)
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To: Bratch

0bama is an f’n moron.


11 posted on 06/07/2014 9:04:50 AM PDT by donhunt (Certified and proud "Son of a Bitch".)
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To: cripplecreek

Alabama elephants have been hunted to extinction due to ivory hunters...The ivory was easier to harvest because in Alabama the Tuscaloosa. (sorry)


12 posted on 06/07/2014 9:05:31 AM PDT by gorush (History repeats itself because human nature is static)
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To: gorush

Its been a long time since any great lakes whales have been spotted.


13 posted on 06/07/2014 9:07:03 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin.)
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To: Bratch; All
And those in favor of strong endangered species laws want to also insist that all confiscated antique carved ivory art be destroyed — not even given to a museum.

Already thousands of pounds of ivory art objects have been destroyed. This will cause huge losses to companies, collectors and museums. Express your opinion in this controversy.

Used to, people that destroyed treasures were called barbarians.
14 posted on 06/07/2014 9:09:52 AM PDT by Bratch
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To: Bratch

Thanks for posting this.


15 posted on 06/07/2014 9:10:15 AM PDT by sauropod (Fat Bottomed Girl: "What difference, at this point, does it make?")
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To: gorush
Alabama elephants have been hunted to extinction due to ivory hunters...The ivory was easier to harvest because in Alabama the Tuscaloosa. (sorry)

16 posted on 06/07/2014 9:12:01 AM PDT by Bratch
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To: gorush

Did you shoot an elephant in your pajamas? What was he doing in your pajamas?


17 posted on 06/07/2014 9:16:06 AM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (Stop wishing for a perfect world. You may get it. Who will you talk to then?)
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To: Bratch

Stealing my material,eh? You'll be hearing from my lawyers at Hungadunga,Hungadunga,Hungadunga and Hungadunga.

18 posted on 06/07/2014 9:18:01 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Rat Party Policy:Lie,Deny,Refuse To Comply)
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To: Bratch

The Obama administration has now proven to be worse than the Nazis. At least they saved art. Democrats and liberals just want to destroy anything they don’t agree with and the hell with who it hurts.


19 posted on 06/07/2014 9:18:47 AM PDT by VeniVidiVici (Melowese Richardson - Democrat Vote Fraud Expert)
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To: Bratch

This order will mean increased poaching as it will mean the value of ivory will shoot up.


20 posted on 06/07/2014 9:19:23 AM PDT by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: CIB-173RDABN

I assure you it is not satire.


21 posted on 06/07/2014 9:19:53 AM PDT by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: gorush
(sorry)

Don't be -- that's the first good laugh I've had all week.

22 posted on 06/07/2014 9:27:24 AM PDT by Bernard Marx
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To: CIB-173RDABN

This is a satire-filled time. If contrary to actual law it will probably get mowed down in court, but there’s more expense and trouble involved. It is another Obama distraction bomb.


23 posted on 06/07/2014 9:29:56 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: Bratch

Remember how incensed the world was when Muslims dynamited the old Buddha statues (which nobody actually worshiped, even the Buddhists who built them).


24 posted on 06/07/2014 9:31:22 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: VeniVidiVici

Anything that elevates the spirit is hated by these bullies!


25 posted on 06/07/2014 9:32:16 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: Vanders9
Your observation must be from where you live. I live in the south and I see ivory jewelry all of the time. Usually it is in the form of family heirlooms, but once you know what to look for, it is easy to identify (striations on the cross grain). In fact, just recently I met a young lady who was wearing a beautiful elephant ivory necklace. When I commented on it, she did not know it was elephant ivory (she bought it at a yard sale). I showed her the striations and immediately that piece of "costume jewelry" became a prized possession.

I even see whale ivory from time to time (blotches of irregular color).

You just need to know what to look for.

26 posted on 06/07/2014 9:34:48 AM PDT by fini
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To: Gay State Conservative
Oh yeah????

Then you'll hear from OUR lawyers; Dewey, Cheatem and Howe!

27 posted on 06/07/2014 9:36:55 AM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: HiTech RedNeck
If contrary to actual law it will probably get mowed down in court...

28 posted on 06/07/2014 9:41:01 AM PDT by Bratch
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To: Bratch
Ex post facto laws are unconstitutional.

-PJ

29 posted on 06/07/2014 9:41:14 AM PDT by Political Junkie Too (If you are the Posterity of We the People, then you are a Natural Born Citizen.)
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To: Bratch

I THOUGHT I had heard that wild elephant herd protection measures had become good enough that the populations were now prevailing against the remaining poachers.

It would seem to me that radiocarbon dating could help identify the approximate age of a piece of ivory, if there is a serious question about its being antique or new. And I could see requiring new ivory to have certifications to its legitimacy, if poaching remained a serious problem.

But going head over heels for environmentalism seems to be a hallmark of our modern liberals.


30 posted on 06/07/2014 9:43:14 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: Bratch

And a wild hair suddenly becomes the law of the land for every situation and every case?


31 posted on 06/07/2014 9:44:14 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: Bratch
And those in favor of strong endangered species laws want to also insist that all confiscated antique carved ivory art be destroyed — not even given to a museum.

At their heart, Liberals can't stand that there is a single activity, hobby, or action that is not A. regulated and B. provides enjoyment. (

Just how is destroying a pre-War tea set with ivory handles going to improve the life of an elephant that has been dead for 100 years? Oh, and by the way, those ivory handled pistols carried by Gen. George Patton would have to be destroyed.

32 posted on 06/07/2014 9:45:19 AM PDT by Flick Lives ("I can't believe it's not Fascism!")
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To: Gay State Conservative
Are you trying to be funny or are you really ignorant of Constitutional separation of powers?
33 posted on 06/07/2014 9:48:05 AM PDT by G Larry (Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)
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To: Bratch

“What difference, at this point, does it make?”


34 posted on 06/07/2014 9:48:25 AM PDT by HotKat (Politicians are like diapers; they need to be changed often and for the same reason. Mark Twain)
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To: Flick Lives

Weird jags that single out property, rather than evil acts, for opprobrium, are nothing new! FDR and gold anybody? Alcohol prohibition? Crazy gun bans?

It’s lazy and usually counterproductive to go down such roads.


35 posted on 06/07/2014 9:49:44 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Well, unless you can come up with a cheap, accurate, carbon-14 dating machine, its impossible to tell “new” ivory from old ivory. Ive seen a lot of “old” ivory WINK WINK sold in souvenir shops when on vacation. Needless to say, I didn’t buy any. I have very mixed feeling about such a law (NOTE: I SAID, LAW). Not what passes for a law these days.

The galling part of this, is that for Westerners, anyway, the value of ivory is not in the material, but the craftsmanship of the work that went into carving it. I believe that the Japanese came up with a material YEARS AGO that duplicates perfectly the carving and material properties of ivory (they did large aquatic mammal teeth for scrimshaw, too). There is no good reason for anyone to make anything whatsoever anymore out of the real materials, period.


36 posted on 06/07/2014 9:53:41 AM PDT by The Antiyuppie ("When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day.")
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To: Rusty0604
SWAT teams ready to enforce with no knock raids

Don't forget the 'flash bang grenades' and the deliberate killing of the family pet. Obama and his brown shirts.

37 posted on 06/07/2014 9:57:15 AM PDT by Don Corleone ("Oil the gun..eat the cannoli. Take it to the Mattress.")
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To: The Antiyuppie

I’d envision some sort of lab that would take samples of the kind that could be scraped off a hidden area with a knife, if it had to be done.

If it’s part of an antique then it’s reasonable to presume it’s antique itself.

I learned piano on a piano that had actual ivories. There is something to be said for the touch. The porosity tends to absorb small amounts of moisture. Sweaty pianist fingers on a modern plastic keyed instrument can build up to a slippery, grimy problem.


38 posted on 06/07/2014 9:58:54 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: Bratch
I guess that means my 84 year old mother in law is a criminal. I called her after I read this article- she has a large netsuke collection and an ivory bracelet. I think the value just went up on her collection. I will wear the bracelet when I inherit it. It will be my screw you to the government. This law is illegal, Obama does not have the power. And, who is it to say they could extend it to other items- like antique cars which do not meet emission standards, or to homes on the waterfront to save the fish,. etc.
39 posted on 06/07/2014 10:04:04 AM PDT by kaila
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To: HiTech RedNeck

If the any governmental entity in the US was required to pay fair value to the property owner for ANY taking of private property or private property rights...for the common good as it is usually described...it would happen far less and only for more important reasons.

DK


40 posted on 06/07/2014 10:04:55 AM PDT by Dark Knight
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To: Dark Knight

I think this would be fairer (and in line with the tone of the Constitution) but shoot, if you can presume to shut down coal plants, buying up all the ivory to throw it away would be nothing.


41 posted on 06/07/2014 10:07:31 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: G Larry
Are you trying to be funny or are you really ignorant of Constitutional separation of powers?

I'm not a troll from the DUmpster Underground so I assumed my post didn't need a sarcasm tag.

42 posted on 06/07/2014 10:11:17 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Rat Party Policy:Lie,Deny,Refuse To Comply)
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To: Gay State Conservative

I.e. being funny.

Look we don’t all have to be as grim as a nightmare of a black cat in a coal chute at night!


43 posted on 06/07/2014 10:14:46 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Look we don’t all have to be as grim as a nightmare of a black cat in a coal chute at night!

That's true.But it sounded like a serious question so I gave a serious reply.But they *do* say that it takes more muscles to frown than it takes to laugh.

44 posted on 06/07/2014 10:21:59 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Rat Party Policy:Lie,Deny,Refuse To Comply)
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To: moose07

Not to mention all the artifacts owned by museums.

In the late 50s my grandmother purchased an ivory chess set in Hong Kong, each piece beautifully carved with the opposing pieces stained sienna. It’s a family treasure and the gubmint can’t have it.


45 posted on 06/07/2014 10:27:02 AM PDT by CityCenter (Resist Obamacare!)
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To: Alas Babylon!
Then you'll hear from OUR lawyers; Dewey, Cheatem and Howe!

First...I assume that you know that the line I was referring to was one of Groucho's.Second,the only law firm I recall from the Stooges was "Goldman,Goldstein,Goldberg and O'Brien".And the guy answering the phone,who had a Yiddish/Hebrew accent,said at the end of his greeting...in that Yiddish accent..."O'Brien speaking".Funny stuff!

46 posted on 06/07/2014 10:34:08 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Rat Party Policy:Lie,Deny,Refuse To Comply)
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To: moose07

You cannot sell them, trade them or donate them to museums. The next step is that people will be reluctant to display them for fear of being accused of participating in some sort of illegal or at least, socially forbidden activity.

I have ivory artifacts. I will hang on to them. I will bequeath them to those who understand such things and hopefully, at some point in the future this will all subside, the amount of such items will have been decreased sufficiently that he old items will again have value by virtue of rarity.

This is just more feel-good-ism in the name of stopping something a few individuals deem bad. I will not be surprised when this regulation is extended to ebony, rosewood, mahogany,etc. I believe this has already been an issue with inlays on musical instruments. Then it will be all animal skins or even bone. At some point, perhaps all crystals or mineral specimens will be prohibited.

Where does this end?


47 posted on 06/07/2014 10:34:29 AM PDT by reformedliberal
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To: Gay State Conservative

Sorry.

It’s Hungadunga, Hungadunga, Hungadunga and McCormick. /pedantism


48 posted on 06/07/2014 10:37:40 AM PDT by reformedliberal
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To: Vanders9
If you really wanted to stop the ivory trade, the best bet might be to completely legitimise it. The market would then be absolutely flooded with cheap, high quality stuff from the western world that people were trying to get rid of, and thereby do the poachers completely out of business. Problem solved. Do you think that will happen? Not a chance.

If you REALLY want to stop the poachers, make ivory legal, people will set up elephant ranches where they will raise elephants for their ivory (tranquilize the elephant, take the ivory, and let him grow more).

As a bonus, the country can issue poacher hunting licenses. There are people in the world who would pay money for that.

49 posted on 06/07/2014 10:40:04 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: CityCenter

Exactly, H*ll hath no fury like a Museum curator.
It is totally unenforceable.....Wrap up, lock away, keep quiet.
It is Cultural historical destruction, nothing more.
Boating accidents will become even more common. :)


50 posted on 06/07/2014 10:40:37 AM PDT by moose07 (the truth will out ,one day. .............................................)
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