Skip to comments.Ukraine's new leader stands up to Moscow over Crimea and Europe
Posted on 06/07/2014 9:01:03 AM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
Ukraine's new president Petro Poroshenko said his country would never give up Crimea and would not compromise on its path towards closer ties with Europe, spelling out a defiant message to Russia in his inaugural speech on Saturday.
The 48-year-old billionaire took the oath of office before parliament, buoyed by Western support but facing a crisis in relations with Russia as a separatist uprising seethes in the east of his country.
Russia annexed the Crimean peninsula in March, weeks after street protests ousted Poroshenko's pro-Moscow predecessor Viktor Yanukovich, in a move that has provoked the deepest crisis in relations with the West since the Cold War.
"Citizens of Ukraine will never enjoy the beauty of peace unless we settle our relations with Russia. Russia occupied Crimea, which was, is, and will be, Ukrainian soil," Poroshenko said in a speech that drew a standing ovation.
(Excerpt) Read more at mobile.reuters.com ...
Patriotic Americans are helping Ukrainian patriots kill our common Russian enemies, and we will continue to do so. Death to Russia! Death the stupid murdering thug Putin! The war will soon come to Russia, and Putin will face the same angry mobs that overthrew his puppet in Ukraine!
Ukraine’s new president Petro Poroshenko ought be aware of what Putin did to the entire Polish gub mint a few years ago in downing a jet with the entire group on board.
Guess puttie didn’t care for their politics.
Two jillionaires toe to toe now.
Well I guess someone did put his money where his mouth was.
Not to mention the fact that it appears that Obama and Merkel are going to hang Poroshenko out to dry when it is politically convenient (such as after the midterm elections). Obama and Merkel have already sent signals that Putin can keep Crimea.
Patriotic Americans are helping Ukrainian patriots kill our common Russian enemies, and we will continue to do so. Death to Russia! Death the stupid murdering thug Putin! The war will soon come to Russia, and Putin will face the same angry mobs that overthrew his puppet in Ukraine.
Wow, Joe -- don't hold it in! I don't see how maintaining Russia's strategic and historic presence in Crimea the key to the Black Sea constitutes "reuniting the evil empire" that was the former Soviet Union. And while I have no reason to believe Vladimir Putin is a nice guy, I'm not aware of any evidence that he is either "psychotic" or a "mass murderer" either. Since the Monroe Doctrine was declared in 1823, the United States has unilaterally enforced a ban on outside colonization throughout our entire hemisphere, and we have gone to war numerous times to enforce this doctrine. If we were in Russia's shoes in February 2014, past American presidents would have already invaded and occupied the whole of Ukraine and we would now be installing a puppet government in Kiev. So by our historical standards, Putin is acting with remarkable restraint.
And why is Putin showing such restraint toward Ukraine? Not because of military opposition, because no western military defense of Ukraine is forthcoming. And not because he is a nice guy. It is because Russia does not want to occupy all of Ukraine half of which would be hostile. Nor does Russia need to occupy Ukraine. Within its present borders and with its population's present demographic mix, Ukraine is an ungovernable basket case. Kiev cannot effectively govern much of its territory east of the Dnieper River, and is destined to hold a much smaller territory that is naturally aligned with Poland to the west. The east of Ukraine will be aligned with Moscow, securing a broader Russian land bridge to Crimea and the Black Sea. And Crimea, the historic Russian sentinel which was arbitrarily given to the Ukrainian SSR by Kruschev in 1954, will by strategic necessity remain a part of Russia.
Of course, this "best case" scenario is predicated upon the behavior of Kiev's current regime. Its only cohesive and governable territory is west of the Dnieper River and north of Crimea. If Kiev accepts that fate, it may actually survive and prosper. But if Kiev attempts to hold onto the eastern territories, it will remain paralyzed by corruption, chaos, revolution and bankruptcy. And if Kiev opts for war with Russia, Ukraine will cease to exist.
My own opinion is that the principle of Subsidiarity and Solzhenitsyn's views are right for Ukraine, and that the smaller oblasts that wish to leave have every right to leave. However, that is only my opinion because the dispute between Russia and Ukraine is none of America's business, and nothing that can happen between them can have any effect upon our national security. Therefore, this is not our fight.
Yes, all 5% of it.
The rest is garbage your russian wife/girlfriend/boyfriend told you. Once the mongoloid trash keeps pushing more to the west, than its asiatic boundaries defines, we will see WW3 and you will be shitting your pants, no matter what your tough guy screen name is saying. The “funny” thing about WW3 is that nukes/SU-30 etc. will not matter much, it will be more like mad max movies and your mongoloides have no upper hand in it, they will be dying like anyone else.
The Monroe Doctrine was a ban on outside colonization, but nobody has tried to colonize Ukraine, except Putin.
Crimea is not the key to the Black Sea. The Bosporus and Dardanelles are. Putin is not keeping NATO out of the Black Sea, because he cannot do so. NATO can project power into the Black Sea whenever we choose to do so. Putin did not gain any strategic advantage by invading Crimea, in fact since he already had a military base there he did not achieve anything at all. Crimea will cost Russia much. It's only value is as a symbol of Neo-Soviet nostalgia. Which is of course why Putin had to possess it, because he is an unrepentant Chekist proud of his lifelong loyal service to the evil KGB secret police that brutalized and oppressed his own people, and now under his leadership continues their reign of terror.
It is not Ukraine which will soon cease to exist, but Russia. Russia shall be smashed into a hundred pieces. The forces of ethnic separatism that Putin has unleashed will soon tear Russia apart.
The national security of the USA depends on destroying the revanchist Neo-Soviet terrorist threat which supports all of America's enemies around the world from the Ayatollahs to Kim Jong-Un. Russia is the number one national security threat to the USA. Nobody else even comes close.
I understand that Poles are rightfully afraid of both Russia and Germany, but that's your problem to work out. NATO has outlived its mission and its days are numbered. The alliance has recently taken in a dozen Eastern European chihuahuas who bark like pit bulls, and who mistakenly believe that the West is going to wade in to back them up when they bark themselves into a fight. They haven't been told that they're on their own, and that bankrupt America is not coming this time. Find your next Pilsudski and build up your own military, because Poland is a buffer state.
The Bosporus and Dardanelles were key to NATO's defense in bottling up the Soviet fleet in the Black Sea. But if NATO wants to project offensive naval power into the Black Sea, keeping those straits open becomes NATO's liability. The Black Sea contains Russia's only warm water ports, and that makes it a strategic necessity for Moscow. There is no way that Russia will let is naval base at Sevastopol and its two protective air bases fall into hostile hands. NATO has now been caught twice with itsclandestine hands in Russia's Black Sea cookie jar, in Georgia in 2008 and Ukraine in 2014, and all we earned our naive clients was a smackdown each time. It's time to stop meddling on Russia's border and to mind our own business. This is a problem for Europe to work out.
So you think Russia has every right to treat it’s neighboring countries this way?
Sure, everybody knows that the local strongman and his gangsters are what’s best for any people and their economy. Doesn’t history prove this?
Absolutely not. But this is what happens with buffer states along the frontiers of major powers. Two sides are playing this game in Ukraine, and it was the West's recent meddling that provoked Russia's limited response. Putin would have been derelict to have done nothing after the loss of an ally to a hostile regime that threatened Russia's most important port and naval base. Is it Russia's right? No. But Russia's response was the only logical one.
Quite predictable also, as evidenced by leaked State Dept. cable traffic from 2008.
No NATO did not provoke Putin's illegal invasions of Georgia and Ukraine. That is just a dirty Russkie lie to try to justify KGB Putin's completely unprovoked Neo-Soviet imperialism.
NATO is the most powerful military force in history. No it's not going away and yes it will continue to expand into Russia's FORMER sphere of influence as Russia continues to contract and collapse. Indeed Putin's desperate flailing aggression against his neighbors is a sign of his insecurity and fear. He has only ensured that NATO will concentrate itself on its primary mission of confronting and containing the Russian terrorist rogue nation.
Who actually believes America will fight for Bulgaria, Romania, or Ukraine, or that they would be reliable allies if we did? The danger now is that NATO is no longer defensive but offensive, and that one its new chihuahuas may provoke a fight that nobody really wants.
And as for your certainty of Russia's total collapse, I'd say it already happened in the 1990s and early 2000s and that Russia is climbing back. The country I'm worried about is our own, as the only thing keeping us from economic free fall is the Petrodollar. If another currency becomes the world's new medium for oil, the US Dollar will plummet like we've never seen or dreamed. Our own future is more fragile than we think.
“Who actually believes America will fight for Bulgaria, Romania”
The thing is, Russia is a disgusting hyena attacking only far weaker opponents, when NATO members, there’s no risk Bulgaria or Romania will be attacked by Russia. That’s why you and your beloved mongoloids oppose NATO so much.
You assume much about me, and incorrectly. But your tribalist venom for "mongoloids" as you call the Russians reveals the fractious nature of Eastern Europe and its ancient, deep seated hatreds. It also reveals why unintended wars start there so easily, and why America should avoid entangling alliances in that region.
If you don't give a damn about it, you've got God given right to do so but don't tell people that Estonia is trying to provoke war with Russia because that's nonsense.
Fortunately Putin is not so foolhardy. He will not attack NATO because he knows a fight with NATO is a fight Russia would lose. That's why he pulled the Russian troops out of Kosovo. He could not risk starting a fight he would lose for sure. He attacked Ukraine precisely because they are not in NATO. So therefore NATO will continue to expand because other nations know that NATO membership is the only protection from Russia's unprovoked imperialist aggression.
As for your dreams of American decline and the end of the petrodollar, let's just say that rumors of America's demise are greatly exaggerated. Fracking is going to cripple Russia's energy export dependent economy. Not even Putin's good comrades Obama and the Democrats can stop the energy revolution that is coming!
History marches on, but KGB Putin and is retrograde backwards ideas are headed towards the ash heap of history where they belong.
America's decline is not a dream, but a nightmare that should have been and might still be avoided. I agree with you about fracking our enormous oil and natural gas reserves -- the only hope for producing our way out of our otherwise hopeless debt. A sane nation would exploit such an obvious gift of Providence, but we are no longer sane. In our present delusion, worshiping the earth is more important than using its resources, and a great part of our nation believes this suicidal lie.
But that's just one symptom of the real problem, which is our national character. Resources can be used for good or evil, or not used at all. Finances can be built for decades and invested wisely or foolishly, and may be squandered in an instant. Military strength can be built and kept ready, but can also be wasted in needless wars or expanded beyond the point of affordability. History shows that all of those advantages are very transient. What destroys civilizations is the decline of character.
The America that promoted democracy around the world now punishes free speech that it deems unacceptable. The America that promoted the family as its cornerstone now promotes sexual deviancy. The America that encouraged children now promotes abortion. The America built on hard work and sacrifice now rewards idleness. The America that once enshrined Freedom has become a police state. This is not the America that we inherited.
Russia is not what concerns me today. America is what I'm truly worried about.
As for Estonia, it is a beautiful little country that I was very familiar with in the 1990s. Nice people, too, although Soviet-era Russian colonization left them with a demographic ticking time bomb. Estonians have my best wishes, but there is no way in hell that the United States will go to war to defend a country the size of metropolitan Richmond. I don't care what the treaty says, this nation is not going to do it.