Skip to comments.[VANITY] A Different Outcome to World War II - Attention WWII Buffs
Posted on 06/08/2014 9:06:40 AM PDT by tom h
In an old issue of American Heritage, there was a passage stating that, after the bombing of Pearl Harbor in December 1941, Hitler decided to declare war on the USA. In response, his generals recommended ceasing the offensive war against Russia, retreating to defensible lines, and taking the very reasonable military approach -- consolidating their very extensive gains in continental Europe, adding Greece and Spain to the mix, securing northern Africa, and turning the Mediterranean Sea into a "German Lake."
Hitler initially agreed to this very reasonable strategy. But within days the Soviets mounted their first winter offensive, on the outskirts of Moscow, and Hitler was so infuriated that he forgot his initial agreement and decided to continue his total war against Russia.
The rest, of course, is history. Russian bled Germany dry, the Allies invaded on D-Day 3.5 years later, and Germany lost.
First, what additional details can you shed on this fascinating possibility? Are there any books, recent, or old, that explore this? Frankly, in my view this is a more pivotal point than the decision to resume the Russian war in 1942 and secure Stalingrad.
Second, feel free to speculate on what had happened HAD Hitler followed through on this very reasonable recommendation by his generals.
Hitler is history’s most gigantic, whining, super-pussy. I have NEVER EVER EVER ONCE read of an enemy action that did NOT infuriate him. His fag ass little panties got in a wad about 30 times a day. NO enemy action, short of capitulation, ever did anything but infuriate him. What a douche.
sprechen Sie Deutsch ?
I am of the opinion that absent a significant technological breakthrough on the part of the Germans, this would not have changed the outcome of the war. Yes it might have lengthen the war by allowing the Germans more time for fortifications. But Russia would have come after Hitler and ground down and pinned down his divisions on the eastern front. Once you pick a fight with a bear, the fight aint over till the bear says it is.
Now had Hitler not invaded Russia, that could have been an entirely different story.
If you get a chance, I think you would enjoy reading Fatherland, by Robert Harris
Not much difference. After the 1st year, the germs were pretty much on the def in Russia anyway, maybe not fully dug in in def positions, but the offensive was shot. The end would have come later, maybe giving Adolph a shot at experiencing being on the wrong end of a split atom.
The things which almost happened but didn’t, could be seen as glimpses into how God’s overall plan deals with men’s (and demons’) sinful spirits, especially when the men are heavily bent on evil.
Hitler’s furor (and the furor of demons behind it) was caused to defeat itself, from that point of view. Of course it double-sucked for Hitler, he wrapped himself in evil then found inability to get satisfaction thereby, but it was a relative mercy for the rest of the world.
If Hitler had taken this advice, it is likely North Africa / El Alamein would have not happened the way they did. Patton and Monty would have been in N. Africa a long time.
This also guarantees that D Day would not have happened. Assuming some of the Russian front resources were deployed on the coast of France, the entire invasion would have been infinitely more difficult.
Then again, Rommel would have probably still been in North Africa, so someone else would have been in charge of setting up the coast of France defenses. Like I said, it would have changed every thing!! And certainly lengthened the war, if not changed the ulitmate outcome. And who knows what Stalin would have done to take advantage of it? We benefitted from Hitler and Stalin beating each others brains out for 2-3 years before we landed in France - how would Stalin have used Hitler and the Americans beating each others brains out first?
Ja, aber nicht seher gut...
There’s a book by William Forstchen and Newt Gingrich called 1945 which had a somewhat similar alternate history. In that one Hitler is in a coma (he was in a plane wreck, around that time) in December 1941. The people in charge while he was out didn’t declare war on the U.S. and took a more rational approach on the Eastern Front. Thus the U.S. never got involved in the European war, and stuck to simply curb stomping the Japanese in short order. Europe was left a Nazi Reich with only the U.K. still free after they sued for peace.
It was a pretty good book, but we’ve never seen the sequel, which is annoying since it was a bit of a cliffhanger.
you are right about the demonic influence ..
Too bad for him all those evil Jewish atomic physicists left Germany...
Then there is the desire of Winston Churchill to invade the Balkans, push north between the German armies and Russian armies to deny Russia access to Eastern Europe.
Anyone got anything on these weird tales?
If you know how close Hitler came to beating us to the atomic age, you might change your opinion. There was a long shot covert op that detroyed Hitlers' hard water plant - but given more time, and more resources to guard his flank, that op would not have happened, and it's very likely that Hitler would have won the atomic race - just like he won the jet race. Had his fighter jet had another 1-2 years of competitive warfare - the battle of Britain and so on might have been reversed.
Indeed, Hitler was rash, did things on impulse, like declaring war on the USA, for instance. What a dumb move.
I happen to think the war outcome would have been totally different. Hitler’s biggest problem in 1942, when his war fortunes began to reverse, were that German troops were spread to thin. Books make lots of hay about Rommel’s Afrika Corps but it was a fairly small force. Had Rommel had another 20 divisions he truly could have invaded and taken over Egypt and the Holy Land, prevented an easy North Africa landing by the Allies. Turkey would have signed an agreement with a resurgent Germany. Once these gains were secure, Hitler would have had to secure his back along the Russian, front, to be sure, but the defensive war would have been far less debilitating than the offensive war in 1942 that lost the Sixth Army.
Besides persuading the best physicists to "self deport" German graphite has a trace, just a whisper, of neutron absorbing boron.
The remaining racially pure Nazi physicists built graphite moderated test reactor, ran tests, and concluded that the idea was impractical...
I don't think he could have not invaded Russia. The need to destroy "Jewish Bolshevism" (and "Jewish Anglo-American capitalism," for that matter) was integral to his worldview.