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Study Finds Women Donít Belong in Combat
Arutz Sheva ^ | 11 Jun 2014 | Gil Ronen

Posted on 06/11/2014 6:55:16 PM PDT by docbnj

A new book sums up 13 years of research on female participation in IDF combat units and declares the feminist experiment in the Israeli military a failure. “Lochamot Betzahal” by Col. (res.) Raza Sagi, a former infantry regiment commander, points to high rates of serious injury among women serving in combat units, and to involvement of radical political groups behind the scenes of the campaign for combat service by women.

(Excerpt) Read more at israelnationalnews.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Israel; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: duh; feminism; military
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The author thinks it strange that those advising the army on the use of women in combat are basically anti-military radicals. This is an interesting Israeli view, because the experience of Israel is often cited as evidence by those pushing for a feminized military in the United States.
1 posted on 06/11/2014 6:55:16 PM PDT by docbnj
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To: docbnj

A 3 minute study.


2 posted on 06/11/2014 6:57:46 PM PDT by Carry me back
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To: docbnj
The author thinks it strange that those advising the army on the use of women in combat are basically anti-military radicals.

That was the case in the U.S. as well, of course.

3 posted on 06/11/2014 7:04:03 PM PDT by ansel12 ((Ted Cruz and Mike Lee-both of whom sit on the Senate Judiciary Comm as Ginsberg's importance fades)
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To: Carry me back

Huh?


4 posted on 06/11/2014 7:04:47 PM PDT by ansel12 ((Ted Cruz and Mike Lee-both of whom sit on the Senate Judiciary Comm as Ginsberg's importance fades)
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To: ansel12

Exactly.


5 posted on 06/11/2014 7:05:26 PM PDT by docbnj
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To: docbnj

I think the confusion on women in combat comes from the fact that, under low stress conditions women are flat out better at multi tasking. However women are, without a doubt, much weaker physically and under pressure they tend to seize up. They cannot muster that berserker rage that screams “F**k it all - if I am going to die I am going to take as many SOBs as I can with me.


6 posted on 06/11/2014 7:06:04 PM PDT by WMarshal (Free citizen, never a subject or a civilian)
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To: WMarshal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserker

Interesting read.


7 posted on 06/11/2014 7:14:35 PM PDT by headstamp 2 (What would Scooby do?)
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To: WMarshal
I think the confusion on women in combat comes from the fact that, under low stress conditions women are flat out better at multi tasking.

I don't see that, around the house they just seem like it, but not in the big areas.

8 posted on 06/11/2014 7:16:42 PM PDT by ansel12 ((Ted Cruz and Mike Lee-both of whom sit on the Senate Judiciary Comm as Ginsberg's importance fades)
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To: WMarshal
under pressure they tend to seize up

It's terribly sexist, but I think this is true. I've seen it many times. Just as one instance, my wife is a reasonably intelligent woman, but if she is under pressure, her IQ drops to about half it's normal level. "I don't know what to do!" is about all she can manage until the crisis is over.

9 posted on 06/11/2014 7:20:48 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy ("Harvey Dent, can we trust him?" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBsdV--kLoQ)
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To: docbnj

The egghead dumbasses who make stupid decisions like women in ships and women in combat NEVER have to suffer any of the consequences of their decisions!

Women do not belong on Navy ships and women do not belong in combat units!

Every decision made with respect to the US Armed Forces should be made with one goal in mind: INCREASING THE COMBAT CAPABILITY OF THE ARMED FORCES!

All other considerations are simply BS!


10 posted on 06/11/2014 7:21:41 PM PDT by Taxman
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To: docbnj

This can only be properly assessed with pictures of IDF babes at the beach!


11 posted on 06/11/2014 7:23:05 PM PDT by SgtHooper (This is not my tag!)
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To: docbnj

So I guess this means that Barry’s “openly gay” and “evolved” military probably won’t work either, huh? Hagel’s Transgender Army sure is going to look weird on the battlefield wearing those high heels.


12 posted on 06/11/2014 7:27:08 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (Obama's smidgens are coming home to roost.)
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To: FlingWingFlyer

Hagel’s Transgender Army sure is going to look weird on the battlefield wearing those high heels.


How could anyone even come up with Trannys in the military. Obama and his thugs hate our military and are trying to destroy it.


13 posted on 06/11/2014 7:35:01 PM PDT by boycott
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To: boycott

I agree. Hagel is an ass.


14 posted on 06/11/2014 7:36:10 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (Obama's smidgens are coming home to roost.)
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To: Taxman

In the eighties there was a destroyer tender with females on it. The USS Puget Sound AD-38. We called her the Pubic Mound.


15 posted on 06/11/2014 7:39:42 PM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: WMarshal
>>>“F**k it all - if I am going to die I am going to take as many SOBs as I can with me.

Not all of us are like that though many are. If all goes to hell, everything drops. I don't like torture or seeing it done to anyone. I do understand what you mean though; many people would freeze up, whack out and or to panic. It's a tough job for all of them as it is now. I never wanted to see women in combat but now it's there and I see no one changing it for now.

16 posted on 06/11/2014 7:43:33 PM PDT by Christie at the beach
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To: docbnj

“Margaret Cochran Corbin (1751-1800)

MARGARET COCHRAN CORBIN
After taking over her husband’s cannon in battle on Manhattan Island, now called Ft. Washington, New York, Margaret Corbin was badly wounded. She was the first woman to receive a military pension.
...
During the Battle at Fort Washington on November 16, 1776, Corbin went with her husband onto the battlefield. Her husband was a matross, which meant he loaded the cannon. Corbin helped him with this task. After her husband’s partner was killed, he took over firing the cannon, and Corbin began loading the cannon. Her husband was also killed, but Corbin continued firing the cannon alone. Other soldiers took notice of her excellent aim. Unfortunately, so did the British who were soon targeting her with their own cannons. The British eventually won this battle but Corbin’s cannon was the last one to stop firing.”

http://www.nwhm.org/education-resources/biography/biographies/margaret-cochran-corbin/


17 posted on 06/11/2014 8:07:43 PM PDT by bunkerhill7 ("The Second Amendment has no limits on firepower"-NY State Senator Kathleen A. Marchione.")
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To: WMarshal

Multitasking was a word invented to cover up the inability to focus, something a lot of women suffer from.


18 posted on 06/11/2014 8:15:06 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (Want to keep your doctor? Remove your Democrat Senator.)
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To: central_va

USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVAN-69) deployed with 400+ females in 1994. “Ike” became known as “The Love Boat,” because of the large number of pregnancies.


19 posted on 06/11/2014 8:33:29 PM PDT by Taxman
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To: FlingWingFlyer

And just how, might one ask, is combat effectiveness to be improved with homosexuals and transgenders in the ranks?


20 posted on 06/11/2014 8:35:35 PM PDT by Taxman
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To: bunkerhill7

So, because one woman heroically manned a cannon, we are to put women in combat units?

I’ll grant that there are places where women can make a positive contribution to a military mission, but ground combat is not one of them.


21 posted on 06/11/2014 8:39:18 PM PDT by Taxman
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To: Taxman
homosexuals and transgenders

You mean, like....a woman trapped in a faggot's body?

22 posted on 06/11/2014 8:43:54 PM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (June IS "Republicans Freed the Slaves" Month.)
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To: Taxman

It’s simply not. Increasing combat effectiveness is obviously not the goal.


23 posted on 06/11/2014 8:52:54 PM PDT by Bob
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To: Bob

Yes, I know that. The Military has been a social petri dish since WW II.


24 posted on 06/11/2014 8:55:38 PM PDT by Taxman
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To: ROCKLOBSTER

The mind fairly boggles!


25 posted on 06/11/2014 8:56:04 PM PDT by Taxman
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To: Taxman

Hmmmmmm....(stroking chin)


26 posted on 06/11/2014 9:08:33 PM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (June IS "Republicans Freed the Slaves" Month.)
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To: Taxman

300,000 brave Yugo, Albanian, Iti`s and Greek ladies say someone is bloody dead wrong and it ain`t me!!!
And that someone does not know wtf he/she are talking about. PERIOD!!!
Please apologize to the ladies.

viz- Learn from history, who is a great teacher!!

viz-
“Women played a large role in the Italian Resistance.
After the war, about 35,000 Italian women were recognised as
female partigiane combattente (partisan combatants) “

” we were dumbfounded’ when she said that one-quarter of the partisan [Yugoslavian]fighters were women.
News continued to reach Greece about
the achievements of the women fighters of both Yugoslavia and Albania”

...

journals.msvu.ca/index.php/atlantis/article/viewFile/

There were thousands of female soldiers- women combatants
who fought in battle against the Germans. -”On the battlefield the women always
went forward and won.”[Vervenioti, 1994, p319 ff]

“4.4 The Women’s Platoons

30The partisan heartland had shifted from Roumeli to Macedonia when women’s
involvement in ELAS was formalised in 1944. Women’s platoons operated in the
Ninth Division (western Macedonia), Tenth Division (central Macedonia),
Thirteenth Division (Roumeli), Second Division (Atticoboetia), First Division
(Thessaly), and the Eighth Division (Ipiros) (see Vervenioti, 1994).
Most of these young women were members of EPON, fugitives from the cities,
or local women from the liberated areas. As the women’s platoons were formed
towards the end of the Axis occupation, they were used in operations to cut
off German escape routes, as well as in the liberation of villages and towns.
Women’s involvement occurred, therefore, within a climate of increasing optimism
as (partisan) victory beckoned.

The women in the villages and the towns where the partisan war is blooming must pour
all their might into that front. They must be organised into the local organisations
of ELAS, EAM and the Thessalian Ieros Lochos [a military formation literally translated
as ‘Holy Company’]. They must become actively involved in every department.
They must organise fighting units for the young women who can and want to carry a weapon.
Their role is important in a popular uprising, as they will inspire a delirium of
enthusiasm, striking the most sensitive chord of any Greek: his honour. (19 March 1943)”
http://www.gutenberg-e.org/poulos/chapter4.html#s4


27 posted on 06/11/2014 9:35:08 PM PDT by bunkerhill7 ("The Second Amendment has no limits on firepower"-NY State Senator Kathleen A. Marchione.")
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To: docbnj
This is an interesting Israeli view, because the experience of Israel is often cited as evidence by those pushing for a feminized military in the United States.

After the '67 and '73 wars, the IDF stopped using women in combat units because the IDF found that many men were wounded because the natural instinct of men is to go to the aid of an injured female. I don't know why the anti-military radicals would use discredited information to make their case, unless--wait for it--they're more stupid than we thought.
28 posted on 06/11/2014 9:38:00 PM PDT by righttackle44 (Take scalps. Leave the bodies as a warning.)
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To: central_va

I googled USS Puget Sound. Launched 1966, decommissioned 1996. In 1979 all her armaments were removed so that women could serve on board (no longer a combat ship).

Jimmah Carter was POTUS. Another component of his hollow military of the late 1970’s. That ship must have been a disciplinary nightmare.


29 posted on 06/11/2014 10:40:33 PM PDT by elcid1970 ("In the modern world, Muslims are living fossils.")
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To: docbnj; blueyon; KitJ; T Minus Four; xzins; CMS; The Sailor; ab01; txradioguy; Jet Jaguar; ...

Active Duty ping.


30 posted on 06/11/2014 10:43:18 PM PDT by Jet Jaguar (Resist in place.)
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To: Taxman

Truly civilized countries recognize the purpose of the military is to protect the women and children , not put them in harms way.


31 posted on 06/11/2014 10:45:58 PM PDT by Kozak ("It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal" Henry Kissinger)
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To: Christie at the beach

“I never wanted to see women in combat but now it’s there and I see no one changing it for now.”

I know what you mean, Christie. The Left has a way of framing every position they take as being ‘enlightened’ or at least ‘irreversible’. We shouldn’t fall for that, but we do every time. The Left seizes a piece of ground, and the fight moves on to their next objective. They never seem to be on the defensive.


32 posted on 06/12/2014 4:23:19 AM PDT by Tallguy
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To: bunkerhill7

Partisan warfare is different. It’s sniping, and melting away. Infantry work is a dirty, heavy, relentless grind. It breaks men down. Women even faster.


33 posted on 06/12/2014 4:28:02 AM PDT by Tallguy
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To: Tallguy

Seems that women have to be sent back to base for personal health reasons every few weeks. They don’t mention this little tidbit.

I have no experience with living out in the field but I have picked up Army units who did. Those guys are always covered in dirt and provide a new aroma to the smell of burnt jet fuel and hydraulic fluid.


34 posted on 06/12/2014 7:37:34 AM PDT by USAF80
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To: Tallguy

11 countries say somebody is wrong `n it ain`t me-

Somebody`s out there pickin` pussywillows and it ain`t me.

your exempla claudit

“IDF Study Finds Women Belong in Combat”

there fixed it-

“Israel: In 1985 the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) began putting women into combat positions and by 2009 women were serving in artillery units, rescue forces, and in anti-aircraft forces. While women must take part in compulsory military service, they are conscripted for only two years, versus three for men.

A study on the integration of female combatants in the IDF between 2002 and 2005 found that women often exhibit “superior skills” in discipline, motivation, and shooting abilities, yet still face prejudicial treatment stemming from “a perceived threat to the historical male combat identity.”

At its height, Australia had more troops in Afghanistan than any non-NATO country, and women currently account for roughly 10 percent of all Australia’s deployed troops.

Roughly 15 percent of Canadian military forces are now women, while 2 percent of combat troops (99 troops) are female. In 2006, Canada lost its first female soldier—a forward artillery scout—in combat with Taliban forces.

Denmark: Since 1988, Denmark has had a policy of “total inclusion,” which came on the heels of 1985 “combat trials” exploring the capabilities of women to fight on the front lines. “Danish research showed that women performed just as well as men in land combat roles,” according to the British MOD study

France: Women make up nearly one-fifth of the French military and can serve in all posts except on submarines and in the riot-control gendarmerie. Though permitted to serve in the combat infantry, however, most chose not to. As a result, women make up only 1.7 percent of that force.

Germany: In 2001, the country opened German combat units to women, dramatically increasing the recruitment of female soldiers into the ranks. The number of women in the German Armed Forces is now three times as high as in 2001. As of 2009, roughly 800 female soldiers were serving in combat units.

New Zealand: Women have been able to serve in all defense units, including infantry, armor, and artillery units, since the country passed a law to that effect in 2001. A report four years later found that the move helped drive a societal shift that “values women as well as men,”

Norway: In 1985, Norway became the first country in NATO to allow women to serve in all combat capacities, including submarines. Norwegian women are also subject to the draft in the event of a national mobilization. “The few women that are attracted by the infantry and cavalry do a great job in the Norwegian Army,” says Col. Ingrid Gjerde, an infantry officer in the Norwegian military for 25 years.”

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/13/130125-women-combat-world-australia-israel-canada-norway/


35 posted on 06/12/2014 8:13:19 AM PDT by bunkerhill7 ("The Second Amendment has no limits on firepower"-NY State Senator Kathleen A. Marchione.")
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To: Kozak

I fully agree with that statement.

Without the protection of the military, women and children would die, and eventually, the society that does not protect the women and children would die.

That is the way societies self organize - the men fight to ensure their society’s future by protecting their women and children.

At the micro level, even though the feminazis have diminished the role of the male in our society, men protect their families. It is nature’s way — genetic makeup, if you will.


36 posted on 06/12/2014 8:18:55 AM PDT by Taxman
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To: docbnj

Well, knock me over with a feather.. who wouldda thunk it?


37 posted on 06/12/2014 8:28:30 AM PDT by GOPJ (#2 reply spot RESERVED for Tokyo Rose comments: "nothing works - give up - it's all hopeless".)
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To: bunkerhill7

What is your point? That women CAN fight?

Most anyone, including children, can be trained to fight.

That is not the subject of this debate.

What is up for debate is whether they SHOULD be in the combat arms.

If women in combat arms added to the combat capability of a nation’s military, that would be one thing.

I maintain that women in the combat arms do not do so.

HST, when a society is threatened with total destruction, or a family unit is threatened, women must and should take up arms to prevent said destruction.

My wife, for example, thought not a skilled warrior, knows how to shoot, and if pressed, will defend herself and her family.

Saving a family or a society FRom destruction is not the same as routinely having women in the combat arms.


38 posted on 06/12/2014 8:30:04 AM PDT by Taxman
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To: ROCKLOBSTER

And your comments, having thought the matter over?


39 posted on 06/12/2014 8:30:56 AM PDT by Taxman
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To: docbnj

cf women soldiers in the Vietnam war in the NLF, NVA and Vietcong armies.

http://teakdoor.com/arts-and-entertainment/76812-photos-the-female-soldiers-vietnam-war.html


40 posted on 06/12/2014 8:33:12 AM PDT by bunkerhill7 ("The Second Amendment has no limits on firepower"-NY State Senator Kathleen A. Marchione.")
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To: docbnj

The pacifist’s believe the military is a job source for women that want to make a difference.

Since there will be no combat for a military that is obsolete since war has been abolished, there will be no combat and no incapable women is actual combat situations


41 posted on 06/12/2014 8:35:07 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... History is a process, not an event)
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To: Taxman

My humble ignoramusized opinion is that all citizens, male and female, should serve 2 years in the military combat units so they are familiar with guns so when they go back to civilian life they are not anti-American anti-2nd Amendment liberal moonbat wackos who do not understand the military and the U.S. Constitution. YUPYUPYUP


42 posted on 06/12/2014 8:38:18 AM PDT by bunkerhill7 ("The Second Amendment has no limits on firepower"-NY State Senator Kathleen A. Marchione.")
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To: elcid1970

ALL ships are disciplinary nightmares.

The Navy has enough trouble with discipline in male only ships. Adding females to the mix just makes the discipline problem worse - MUCH WORSE!

Although you won’t find anyone still serving willing to go on the record who will say that - they’d lose their job and promotion opportunity. Problems with females in the combat arms and ships are hush-hush.

Keep in mind that the people who made the decision to put women in ships DID NOT AND DO NOT HAVE TO LIVE WITH EITHER THE WOMEN OR THE DECISION!

And, it is worth noting that they do not have to suffer any consequences, either. They will be long dead before the real consequences of their stupidity are realized.

The cost to the US Military has been enormous, and probably never will be calculated.

Political Correctness at work!


43 posted on 06/12/2014 8:41:27 AM PDT by Taxman
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To: bunkerhill7

I have no problem with service to the country, and still believe that abolishing the draft was a terrible mistake.

HST, one does not need to serve in a combat unit to gain a full appreciation for America’s virtues.


44 posted on 06/12/2014 8:57:58 AM PDT by Taxman
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To: bunkerhill7

I gather that the point of your post is that because other countries have women in combat arms, the USA should have women in combat arms?

What does it say about our society that we have to put women in harms way just to satisfy some feminzi demand?


45 posted on 06/12/2014 9:01:32 AM PDT by Taxman
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To: Taxman

11 to one -I WIN~~!!


46 posted on 06/12/2014 9:17:48 AM PDT by bunkerhill7 ("The Second Amendment has no limits on firepower"-NY State Senator Kathleen A. Marchione.")
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To: Taxman

“....the people who made the decision to put women in ships..”

Was that at CNO level or the higher civilian levels in DoD?

I suspect the latter. I was in Vietnam (Army) when Adm. Elmo Zumwalt was CNO; liberal as he was about some things, he would never have made nor implemented such a ruinous choice.


47 posted on 06/12/2014 10:35:04 AM PDT by elcid1970 ("In the modern world, Muslims are living fossils.")
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To: bunkerhill7

A few thoughts about the NLF, Viet Cong & NVA photos of female ‘soldiers’. Notice the NVA ‘soldiers’ are AAA gunners? Those are troops that don’t have to move about a lot and they are deployed near a base that they are defending. Not having to hump packs & ammo greatly reduces the combat stress on the body.

Second: (and I repeat myself here) the NLF/Viet Cong are partisan militia. These are units that basically are raised and fight within their own province and are not tasked with heavy offensive operations.

Third: The women in those photos do not look like they have been “living in the field”. They look freshly scrubbed and that makes me suspect that these are propaganda photos.

Male soldiers get rotated off the line at specific time intervals because combat effectiveness for the units drop after about 30 days, depending on the intensity of operations. A major underlying cause is nagging injuries reducing individual effectiveness.

At the Naval Academy we had some very good female athletes. Almost every female plebe was in crutches within a couple weeks — and we weren’t drilling with field packs. Shin splints, hamstring pulls and other muscular-skeletal injuries due to light-frames.

The IDF does have women in combat positions, but what you’ll find is that they serve in training echelons as Instructor-Pilots, Tank Drivers & Gunners at the Armor School, etc. In essence they are a trained, ready-reserve that if needed will fight defending their home turf in a last ditch.


48 posted on 06/12/2014 11:57:06 AM PDT by Tallguy
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To: Tallguy

“light frames”?

“At the Naval Academy we had some very good female athletes. Almost every female plebe was in crutches within a couple weeks — and we weren’t drilling with field packs. Shin splints, hamstring pulls and other muscular-skeletal injuries due to light-frames.”

where you gittin these academy girls from anywho? Up here we dun got mountain girls can pull a heifer outa the mud with their bare hands and carry it 200 yards to the barn-
You ben recruitin them city slicker women there-
what you need is BIG BONED MOUNTAIN WOMEN who drink beer, swear, curse, can carry a 30-30 for 10 miles in wintertime huntin deer, pick up a snowplow and attach to the truck at 40 below, and can heave haybales into the horsebarn all afternoon. I thunk you dun recruitin them weak puny thin skinny boned city slicker women there.


49 posted on 06/12/2014 12:12:53 PM PDT by bunkerhill7 ("The Second Amendment has no limits on firepower"-NY State Senator Kathleen A. Marchione.")
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To: bunkerhill7

LOL! Seemed like every female we had was five foot two, 130-lbs.

BTW, I read your other posts about mandatory 2-year service for both sexes. I’m not sure that I agree with it, but I see your larger point.

I enjoyed our discussion!


50 posted on 06/12/2014 12:51:41 PM PDT by Tallguy
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