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Dem to Help Plan State-Led Revisions to U.S. Constitution
Northwest Indiana Times ^ | June 8th, 2014 | Dan Carden

Posted on 06/12/2014 5:10:40 AM PDT by Jacquerie

State Sen. Jim Arnold, D-LaPorte, will join some 105 delegates from 33 states at the Indiana Statehouse on Thursday and Friday for the second meeting of the Convention of the States planning group dubbed The Mount Vernon Assembly.

Arnold did not attend the group's first session in December at George Washington's Virginia estate, but said he jumped at the chance to participate this time when Senate President David Long, R-Fort Wayne, an organizer of the planning group, asked Arnold to join him and state Rep. Ben Smaltz, R-Auburn, as Indiana's delegation.

However, because an Article V convention never has been called, there are no clear procedures on how it would begin, what rules the convention would follow or whether it could be limited in scope.

Long said The Mount Vernon Assembly is focused on putting a parliamentary structure in place for a Convention of the States, "so that we can have consensus on how this thing is going to be run" prior to Congress authorizing the convention.

"Without this structure, it won't work," Long said.

Arnold said many Hoosier legislators and lawmakers in other states agree that something must be done to bring the federal government under control, and a Convention of the States just might be it.

"There's a lot of unhappiness out there, on both sides, about out-of-control spending in Washington, mandates Washington makes on states, bureaucracy and so forth," Arnold said. "I hope that this striving to have a convention is where some of these things will be answered."

(Excerpt) Read more at nwitimes.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; US: Indiana
KEYWORDS: articlev; constitution; conventionofstates; indiana; jimarnold; laporte
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Posted for the few Freepers who can get beyond titles.
1 posted on 06/12/2014 5:10:40 AM PDT by Jacquerie
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To: Resolute Conservative; VerySadAmerican; Nuc 1.1; MamaTexan; Political Junkie Too; jeffc; 1010RD; ...

Article V ping!


2 posted on 06/12/2014 5:11:21 AM PDT by Jacquerie (To restore the 10th Amendment, repeal the 17th. Article V.)
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To: Jacquerie

33 states and getting closer! Wahooo!


3 posted on 06/12/2014 5:16:34 AM PDT by freeangel ( (free speech is only good until someone else doesn't like it)
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To: Jacquerie
"There's a lot of unhappiness out there, on both sides, about out-of-control spending in Washington, mandates Washington makes on states, bureaucracy and so forth," Arnold said

He's a Dim.

The 'spending' concern is a Straw Man argument.

The real prize is 2nd Amendment.

4 posted on 06/12/2014 5:19:46 AM PDT by Vinnie
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To: Jacquerie

Or comprehend...


5 posted on 06/12/2014 5:22:19 AM PDT by Crazieman (Are you naive enough to think VOTING will fix this entrenched system?)
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To: Jacquerie

Anyone else think its a monumentally BAD Idea to let the same F’ers who are responsible for corrupting the Federal Government, get involved in the effort to fix the corruption they caused?!

We either have the numbers to do it WITHOUT the socialist bastards or we shouldn’t do it...


6 posted on 06/12/2014 5:24:38 AM PDT by myself6
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To: Vinnie
The real prize is 2nd Amendment.

That that may well be on the table at the convention. Article V places no restrictions on what kind of amendments might be brought up. The convention will consist of representatives from Red States as well as Blue States, and they'll come with their own agenda as well.

7 posted on 06/12/2014 5:25:36 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: Jacquerie

Let’s roll.


8 posted on 06/12/2014 5:26:14 AM PDT by Repeal The 17th (We have met the enemy and he is us.)
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To: myself6
Anyone else think its a monumentally BAD Idea to let the same F’ers who are responsible for corrupting the Federal Government, get involved in the effort to fix the corruption they caused?!

There are no Madisons or Washingtons or Franklins anymore. You're correct that the people who wind up at the convention will be politicians. The same kind of people that got us into this mess to begin with.

9 posted on 06/12/2014 5:27:33 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: freeangel

“However, because an Article V convention never has been called, there are no clear procedures on how it would begin, what rules the convention would follow or whether it could be limited in scope.”

That’s a recipe for disaster.


10 posted on 06/12/2014 5:29:07 AM PDT by Kozak ("It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal" Henry Kissinger)
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To: Jacquerie

I DO NOT LIKE THIS AT ALL; WE CAN ADD AMENDMENTS TO THE CONSTITUTION NOW.

WE DON’T NEED AN ARTICLE V CONVENTION THAT POLITICIANS CAN DOMINATE.


11 posted on 06/12/2014 5:31:16 AM PDT by SatinDoll (A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN IS BORN IN THE US OF US CITIZEN PARENTS.)
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To: DoodleDawg

Exactly... This is no time to screw around. If we are to do this then we better make sure we have a 100% chance of getting exactly what we want while the enemy gets NOTHING!

This is war and should be treated as such. Look what happens to folks who go against this establishment? This will be no different. So we either have the balls to play their game and do what it takes to win or we need to find another way.


12 posted on 06/12/2014 5:31:22 AM PDT by myself6
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To: Vinnie

“The real prize is 2nd Amendment.”

Absolutely.

The Progressives are even subverting the name of
George Washington’s home in order to add a cachet to their efforts at changing the Constitution.

IMHO


13 posted on 06/12/2014 5:32:16 AM PDT by ripley
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To: DoodleDawg; Vinnie
The 2A is about the only amendment in the BOR that is halfway respected by the feds. It is respected not because it is in writing, but because the rats value their jobs more than their “principles.”

Second, you won't find 38 states to ratify repeal.

Third, few men will be stupid enough to attempt to confiscate some 350 million firearms.

If I am wrong on all three, then this experiment in self-government is over and not worth the effort to restore.

14 posted on 06/12/2014 5:33:08 AM PDT by Jacquerie (To restore the 10th Amendment, repeal the 17th. Article V.)
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To: SatinDoll
Why would our oppressors in DC propose amendments to curb their power? They haven't and they won't.

There is no need to shout.

15 posted on 06/12/2014 5:34:49 AM PDT by Jacquerie (To restore the 10th Amendment, repeal the 17th. Article V.)
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To: Vinnie

And the 1st. California senate has put forth a bill to restrict speech by changing the Constitution.


16 posted on 06/12/2014 5:36:08 AM PDT by Excellence (Marine mom since April 11, 2014)
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To: myself6

I think that dims are just now realizing this thing may sure enough happen. They also know they will get steamrolled if it does. They realize they have to get someone inside as a Trojan Horse or it will be all over.


17 posted on 06/12/2014 5:38:26 AM PDT by TxAg1981
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To: Jacquerie

I’ve been warning people that this is a really sh...y idea.

Not everyone in Congress is an oppressor. Your statement demonstrates your ignorance.


18 posted on 06/12/2014 5:38:53 AM PDT by SatinDoll (A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN IS BORN IN THE US OF US CITIZEN PARENTS.)
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To: Jacquerie
Second, you won't find 38 states to ratify repeal.

I never said you could. In fact I can't think of too many amendments that could come out of an Article V convention that have any chance of gaining the support of 38 states.

19 posted on 06/12/2014 5:40:01 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: DoodleDawg; myself6
The people who got us into this mess were the states and the people of 1913. They bought the snake-oil of democracy and ratified the 17th Amendment.

No restoration of republican freedom is possible without its repeal. Not because the states are wise, but precisely because they will look out for their interests, as per the Framers’ design.

Our backs are against the wall. Even if the dangers are as you say, our once republic is now an authoritarian state, where the law is what Obama and his criminals say it is.

We have nothing to lose.

20 posted on 06/12/2014 5:41:24 AM PDT by Jacquerie (To restore the 10th Amendment, repeal the 17th. Article V.)
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To: DoodleDawg

Well, then you can’t be worried about the 2A.


21 posted on 06/12/2014 5:42:16 AM PDT by Jacquerie (To restore the 10th Amendment, repeal the 17th. Article V.)
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To: myself6
If we are to do this then we better make sure we have a 100% chance of getting exactly what we want while the enemy gets NOTHING!

And how would you propose to do that?

I would look at an Article V convention the way a doctor is supposed to look at a patient - "First do no harm". I can't imagine how you can avoid that if you get all these bozos in the same room and let them mess with the Constitution.

22 posted on 06/12/2014 5:43:47 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: SatinDoll
I'm curious; just how do you think you (or we) can add amendments to the Constitution now? Other than by an Article V convention, the only way is for Congress to propose them. Do you really think we the people have more influence over Congress than we would over the state-appointed conventioneers? Besides, as it has been pointed out numerous times, all this convention would do (or Congress, for that matter) would be to propose amendments. They'd still need to be ratified by 38 states before they went into affect.
23 posted on 06/12/2014 5:43:47 AM PDT by Doug Loss
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To: Jacquerie
This just doesn't add up...

State Sen. Jim Arnold, D-LaPorte: "There's a lot of unhappiness out there, on both sides, about out-of-control spending in Washington, mandates Washington makes on states, bureaucracy and so forth."

These things make the heart of any Democrat flutter with joy. I think he's an agent provocateur, an infiltrator sent to learn what the enemy is planning. Throw him out! Or, at a minimum, make him forswear the Democrat party and join the Tea Party under penalty of death.

24 posted on 06/12/2014 5:45:50 AM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: Doug Loss

“Effect.” Duh.


25 posted on 06/12/2014 5:45:54 AM PDT by Doug Loss
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To: Jacquerie
They bought the snake-oil of democracy and ratified the 17th Amendment.

Everyone condemns the 17th Amendment but I'll point out again. Without the 17th Amendment David Dewhurst is the current junior senator from Texas, Bob Bennett is still the junior Senator from Utah, and Todd Cochran will be looking forward to his umpteenth term.

We have nothing to lose.

Things can always get worse. And with the kind of people that would be elected to an Article V convention it probably would.

26 posted on 06/12/2014 5:49:06 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: SatinDoll
WE DON’T NEED AN ARTICLE V CONVENTION THAT POLITICIANS CAN DOMINATE.

Why would you let them?

Did you have your heart set on shooting your way out of this?

27 posted on 06/12/2014 5:49:58 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (June IS "Republicans Freed the Slaves" Month.)
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To: SatinDoll
Not everyone in Congress is an oppressor.

That's true. There's Cruz. And there's....uh, um, ... , give me a sec here.

28 posted on 06/12/2014 5:58:03 AM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: ROCKLOBSTER

at this very moment, the Senate is holding committee hearings for proposing an Amendment to limit 1A
(AKA Koch Amendment)


29 posted on 06/12/2014 6:00:19 AM PDT by dontreadthis
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To: Doug Loss

We’re talking about political power here — do not for a moment assume it only “...would be to propose amendments...”. My main concern is the agenda, and who controls it. That is why I do not like the idea of an Article V Convention.

Right now we can propose amendments in Congress. Because of Obama we probably won’t be successful at getting them implemented, but it would be a start.

Propose a marriage amendment, making it only between one man and one woman.

Propose an amendment declaring life began at the Universe’s Creation (one cannot make a baby from inert or dead materiel).

I believe both are entirely possible to pass and send to the States.


30 posted on 06/12/2014 6:02:47 AM PDT by SatinDoll (A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN IS BORN IN THE US OF US CITIZEN PARENTS.)
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To: Jacquerie
Here's my proposal for an amendment to be considered by the convention:

"Every Representative and Senator who votes for a bill which increases the federal debt, and which passes and subsequently becomes federal law, will be assessed .001% of the amount of the increase, to be paid from his or her personal funds (not from any government-designated fund for such payments). Conversely, every Representative and Senator who votes for a bill which decreases the federal debt will be paid .001% of the amount of the decrease."

This would give them each some "skin in the game." Make increasing the debt hurt, and make decreasing it rewarding.

31 posted on 06/12/2014 6:05:43 AM PDT by Doug Loss
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To: SatinDoll

Amendments added to the Constitution thus far have been initiated by Congresses. What this article is describing is a Constitutional Convention that is initiated by the STATE legislators. States have the power to also propose amendments. This is about proposing procedures for such a state led convention.

It would require 2/3 of the states to propose it and 3/4’s of the states to ratify any amendment.


32 posted on 06/12/2014 6:06:00 AM PDT by Girlene (Hey NSA!)
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To: DoodleDawg
In our Framers’ design, freedom was secured through the division of power. They learned from history that reliance on the virtue alone of elected men was a sure road to tyranny.

First, divide power between the states and the government they created.

Second, divide it up into three parts within the federal government.

That way, no one man or group of men could exercise despotic power. That maxim is as valid now as in 1787, and needed more than ever.

The Framers got it right.

33 posted on 06/12/2014 6:08:16 AM PDT by Jacquerie (To restore the 10th Amendment, repeal the 17th. Article V.)
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To: SatinDoll
Perhaps you haven't read the Constitution. Of course it would be only for the purpose of proposing amendments. Here's the exact text of the Constitution: "on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments..." That's all it could possibly be for. As to your dreams of getting your pet amendments proposed by Congress, I think you're delusional.
34 posted on 06/12/2014 6:09:47 AM PDT by Doug Loss
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To: Jacquerie
However, because an Article V convention never has been called, there are no clear procedures on how it would begin, what rules the convention would follow or whether it could be limited in scope.

This is going to be a cluster f***.

The DemonicCrats don't even obey written law. Imagine a wide open field. Good bye 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th and 10th Amendment.

35 posted on 06/12/2014 6:12:03 AM PDT by Lazamataz (Early 2009 to 7/21/2013 - RIP my little girl Cathy. You were the best cat ever. You will be missed.)
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To: SatinDoll
Because of Obama we probably won’t be successful at getting them implemented

What does Obama have to do with constitutional amendments? That's a legislative function.

/johnny

36 posted on 06/12/2014 6:14:15 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Jacquerie

“Our backs are against the wall. Even if the dangers are as you say, our once republic is now an authoritarian state, where the law is what Obama and his criminals say it is. “

Good point. The convention of states is the voice of the states against overbearing federal authority. Such a convention will produce amendments that shift power from the feds toward the states. That is at the core of what will happen. Anything related to the 2nd amendment, 1st amendment, or such would be too far off the focus of such a convention and would never get sufficient support—although some wacky states would propose such crap in order to form a quasi-coalition with the fed govt apparatus—think California and Illinois who might seek to form an economic backup amendment funneling fed funds to states that can’t manage their piggybanks.

Convention of states politicians are not the same as fed politicians because these two entities are competing for the same power, that is, the power derived from the labor and taxes of the working citizens. A difference is that the states are closer to those citizens and far less able to show citizens disrespect. Another difference is the between-states competition that is not much of a fed issue.

The convention of states is a good idea and the only predictable, managable idea for avoiding the disaster that the fed gov’t is racing towards. Otherwise, the numbers are clear—the US is driving toward the situation of Argentina,, Japan, Greece, and other hopeless economies


37 posted on 06/12/2014 6:14:17 AM PDT by iacovatx (Conservatism is the political center--it is not "right" of center)
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To: Girlene

Yes, and I prefer proposed amendments to the U.S.Constitution to continue being created in Congress, thank you very much!

Are 3/4’s of the States presently dominated by Conservatives? I really don’t think so, and any such Convention will in general have the appearance of a pooch sc..w!


38 posted on 06/12/2014 6:16:20 AM PDT by SatinDoll (A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN IS BORN IN THE US OF US CITIZEN PARENTS.)
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To: Lazamataz
You nay-sayers always seem to forget that any proposed amendments have to be ratified by 3/4s of the states. Honestly, an Article V convention is the last hope of reining in the federal government's usurpation of power short of a shooting war. Do you really want to either continue down the road to totalitarianism or to start CWII without at least trying to use the Constitutionally-provided means for restoring the proper balance?
39 posted on 06/12/2014 6:17:43 AM PDT by Doug Loss
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To: JRandomFreeper

He’s criminal. He will interfere.


40 posted on 06/12/2014 6:17:46 AM PDT by SatinDoll (A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN IS BORN IN THE US OF US CITIZEN PARENTS.)
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To: Doug Loss
Like they follow the rules any more.

I expect to see Executive Orders from OTrauma repealing the 2nd, 10th, and 1st Amendment.

41 posted on 06/12/2014 6:21:34 AM PDT by Lazamataz (Early 2009 to 7/21/2013 - RIP my little girl Cathy. You were the best cat ever. You will be missed.)
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To: SatinDoll
There is no place in the process for him to interfere. The executive plays no role in the amendment process.

/johnny

42 posted on 06/12/2014 6:22:15 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper
What does Obama have to do with constitutional amendments? That's a legislative function.

LOL! I know you've been paying attention. What do YOU think OTrauma will do?

43 posted on 06/12/2014 6:22:25 AM PDT by Lazamataz (Early 2009 to 7/21/2013 - RIP my little girl Cathy. You were the best cat ever. You will be missed.)
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To: SatinDoll
I think you're intentionally missing the point. First, you don't need 3/4s of the states to be "dominated" by Conservatives. You only need 1/4 + 1 to refuse to ratify any proposed amendment you think would be injurious. Second, if you think only Congress should propose amendments, you're the rankest of elitists. Oh, and if you think Congress will ever propose an amendment that will in any way rein in the increasing power and scope of the federal government, you really aren't paying attention. And you don't know much about basic human nature, either.
44 posted on 06/12/2014 6:22:33 AM PDT by Doug Loss
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To: SatinDoll

An article V convention merely allows the states to control what amendments are proposed. Without that, the only other way to bring up amendments would be to have them proposed by Congress by a 2/3 vote of both houses. The whole point of the Article V convention is to bypass Congress since it’s unlikely that they’d propose ANYTHING that would actaully limit Federal power.

In either case, though, any amendments proposed would have to go through the normal ratification process, with any proposed amendments requiring ratification by 3/4 of the states before taking effect.


45 posted on 06/12/2014 6:22:37 AM PDT by stremba
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To: JRandomFreeper
There is no place in the process for him to interfere. The executive plays no role in the amendment process.

Precisely why he WILL interfere.

46 posted on 06/12/2014 6:22:54 AM PDT by Lazamataz (Early 2009 to 7/21/2013 - RIP my little girl Cathy. You were the best cat ever. You will be missed.)
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To: Lazamataz
So you are saying that you want to go straight to a shooting war, without bothering with trying to use the Constitution to restore things. Gotcha.
47 posted on 06/12/2014 6:24:09 AM PDT by Doug Loss
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To: Lazamataz
Short of killing representatives and senators, I don't see where there is anyplace he can interfere.

And wholesale slaughter of legislators will certainly bring about severe.... mixed emotions.

/johnny

48 posted on 06/12/2014 6:25:26 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: myself6

I totally agree.

We DON’T want the bastards who NECESSITATED the need to clarify the Consitution involved in ANY way. If they are, screw the Convention of the States. Leave it alone!!!!!


49 posted on 06/12/2014 6:25:28 AM PDT by ZULU (Impeach Obama NOW.)
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To: Doug Loss
So you are saying that you want to go straight to a shooting war, without bothering with trying to use the Constitution to restore things. Gotcha.

Saying nothing of the kind. Trying to knock your Normalcy Bias blinders off.

50 posted on 06/12/2014 6:26:31 AM PDT by Lazamataz (Early 2009 to 7/21/2013 - RIP my little girl Cathy. You were the best cat ever. You will be missed.)
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