Skip to comments.Armed, dangerous and dead
Posted on 06/12/2014 5:39:46 AM PDT by rellimpank
So much for the argument that having more people armed in public places will result in fewer gun deaths.
One of the three killed recently by a Las Vegas couple, Jerad and Amanda Miller, was an armed civilian, Joseph Wilcox. Two police officers who were killed, Igor Soldo and Alyn Beck, were ambushed while having lunch. Seated in a booth, they had no chance to defend themselves, according to witnesses.
Wilcox, 31, was inside a Walmart when the Millers entered firing and ordering everyone to evacuate. Wilcox, who carried a gun, decided to confront the shooter, apparently unaware that Amanda was with Jerad. After he walked past her on his approach toward Jerad, Amanda fatally shot him.
During an ensuing gunfight with police, Amanda turned her gun on herself after Jerad was fatally shot. Whether they might have killed others had Wilcox not stepped forward a decidedly brave if ill-advised act we can't know. What we do know is that a civilian, perhaps emboldened to heroism because he had a gun, is dead.
Even as we honor Wilcox appropriately, his death should give pause to any who insist that having more armed citizens is the best defense against a would-be killer. Even if one person were to stop a killer in his tracks, it is not logical to extrapolate the occasional success story as proof of the argument.
It also may be unfair to extrapolate that one failure means that having guns in civilian pockets can't ever be helpful. Having an experienced, well-trained person armed with a gun in the right place at the right time might well thwart a slaughter, though inarguably, not everyone with a permit to carry meets those qualifications.
(Excerpt) Read more at jsonline.com ...
Satan walks among us, but being armed is not evil, its just common sense.
One data point is no “proof”. Real researchers like John Lott (”More Guns, Less Crime”) collate hundreds of contrary incidents into real statistics.
So the exception, rules, in the world of the MSM
This is just one story, leave it at that.
Hey, every now and then the perp wins... but I still know which way I’m going to bet.
It was a matter of his timing.
Had he known, he could have shot them both.
They had to waste their killing time monitoring and ambushing him, which they never would have bothered to do if he had been as automatically helpless as the rest.
Because of that delay, they were trapped in a building they could not escape from and died before they could kill anyone else.
One brave armed citizen probably saved several lives that day, while sacrificing his own.
Kathleen Parker is disgusting scum.
I can see Kathleen Parker is a mental giant. Maybe she should be in charge of us?
Ah, I see. The tired dodge of pretending that this is the first time something like this has ever happened, with a dash of false-choice fallacy.
I think the perp lost, thanks to him.
And then the next two sentences she tries to back peddle.
Kathleen Parker, you are a Bucking Fitch.
This has the attitude of "Just lock yourself in a room and wait for the police."
Do you suppose banning rocks would have saved Able from Cain?
Being armed increases your chance of survival, NOTHING guarantees your survival.
Snort!!!! dead on! LOL
I’m pretty sure that everyone can find at least one example of someone who’s fradulently gaming one of the government entitlement programs (SSI, Welfare, etc.) Therefore, by the logic of this article, that proves that entitlement programs are only used by those trying to game the system and should be eliminated. I’m sure that argument would fly just as well with the lefty who wrote this crap!
The author’s premise is false. The CC holder was not well trained or otherwise ignored the training he recieved.
Do not produce a weapon until you understand the situation. When you produce the weapon, act immediately to neutralize the aggressor. If these rules had been followed, at least one of the aggressors would have been neutralized, if not both.
With that said, the perps had already slaughtered two officers of the law, it is obvious that they were ready to kill and if the CC holder did everything correctly, he still may not have survived the encounter.
Regardless of the situation, this is not a valid argument against CC. A citizen tried to do the right thing and was not successful. It is not correct to state this is a reason not to let citizens be prepared.
Ah, Kathleen Parker...
I remember when she had columns on Townhall.com.
Then Obama got elected and she lost her f-ing mind.
It was seemed almost overnight. It was truly sickening how she bought into his schtick hook, line and sinker. She planted her lips firmly on his backside and has never taken them off.
Honestly, I’m surprised she can see to type.
The shething wrote:
“Even if one person were to stop a killer in his tracks, it is not logical to extrapolate the occasional success story as proof of the argument.”
Libs live in upside down mentality. They are extreme hypocrites. They are actually, truly stupid, unable to see themselves making fools of themselves. Liberalism really is a mental disorder, deserving of psychotherapy.
Yes we do. Wilcox saved countless lives.
Kathleen cant wrap her liberal mind around real acts of heroism. They are all for causes as long as someone else does the dirty work. In her mind supporting gun control is as brave as confronting an armed nut job. That is why the Muslim extremists are their kindred spirits. The most fervent supporters of terrorism say God is great but someone else should strap on the suicide belt.
Kathleen Parker really is an ignoramus, isn’t she? Exceptions are found everywhere....one is tempted to believe she had this drivel already composed, ready for release whenever a case like this happened.
Too bad for her that the main principle REMAINED TRUE EVEN IN THIS CASE! To wit: the male perp was stopped by a PERSON WITH A GUN...a cop shot him.
Mr. Wilcox should be honored for his efforts, his bravery may have saved many other lives.
Ms. Parker, by contrast, should be ridiculed for her idiocy.
The “training” argument is a poor one anyway. How many times have we seen articles of cops shooting fifty or even more than a hundred bullets at one guy, hitting or killing others and causing thousands of dollars of property damage as well.
The picture of that swiss-cheesed blue pick-up truck of the Christopher Dorner manhunt suddenly comes to mind as well. “Training” indeed.
Without the bravery of this one armed man, the list of dead would be much higher. Prayers for the family of Wilcox and his loved ones. He was an NRA soldier in the war against evil...
But if one fails to stop the killer, it's proof of the counter argument.
Way to go, Socrates.
I wonder how much differently this would be reported if the CCL holder had instead been an off duty LEO.
Who shot Jerad? The article doesn’t tell us. It only says that he was fatally shot.
The perp wins when they know who to target first. While I am an ardent open carry supporter, I also believe concealed carry is as much of a right as Constitutional carry.
In the old West, only criminals carried concealed. It was considered ungentlemanly to carry concealed. Only rogues did so. Nowadays, with so many cowards and criminals among us, carrying concealed is the only way to ensure a “fair” fight with a bad guy. Beat them at their own game.
Obviously, Kathleen Parker, elitist moron, never studied the issue, never read the data collected by John Lott in his book, "More guns, less crime". I'm pleased as punch, that Kathleen has deigned to inform us, the unworthy great unwashed about her genius ideas coming out the top of her head. Fabulous.
The cops killed were trained professionals with guns and they are dead.
This journalist is a dope.
Because one, lonely example is sufficient to indicate that armed citizens are of no value when the bad guys show up, right? (/s)
Several electric cars have caught fire.
I guess we just ban them all.
Logic: She has none.
Heroic people sometimes die. They are remembered. The wimps are soon forgotten.
In this case the Millers ordered the shoppers out and did not fire on them - they wanted to have a final show down with police, not fellow citizens.
Of course the man who tried to stop them could not have known this and did the right thing as best he could. He endangered no one but himself, and he would have done better to have looked for any other armed attackers and to have shot Miller immediately, but again, he was trying to do right and give Miller a chance to stop without injury.
Wilcox failed to completely assess the tactical situation. Anyone could have made the same mistake, but Wilcox's actions delayed the shooters, which may well have saved lives. When they shot him, everyone else in the place was made aware of the threat.
There is no guarantee that getting involved in a situation will have a happy ending for the person who gets involved. There is personal risk, and a very real danger of injury or death as a result.
That willingness to confront, to embrace that risk and still do what needs to be done is what separates the sheepdogs from the sheep.
To treat the actions of Mr. Wilcox as less than heroic is to diminish the courage it took to confront the shooters, and a serious disservice to Mr. Wilcox's memory.
|Joseph Robert Wilcox was a good guy with a gun. On Sunday, it cost him his life
source: gawker.com | share:
Jerad Miller was shot by his wife, Amanda.
Amanda Miller also shot Joseph Wilcox. He went to confront Jerad Miller when Amanda shot him. Wilcox did not know she was with Jerad....she was pushing a shopping cart at the time and blended in with the other shoppers.
So was the person shot and killed by the bandits a man or woman? Media can’t even get genders straight.
Many years back I trained under a guy who was not just a master of his discipline but also a credentialed scholar of close quarters combat.He wrote long and boring papers on the subject.
His premise was, TSHTF at BEST you only react 50% of trained response.
Hardcore years of work; 50% is still quite a bit.
A few hours for a quickie CC class; not so much.
Except when talking about Global Warming, or Climate Change, or Climate "Disruption." When the exceptions overwhelm their agenda, they simply rename it and repeat the same old arguments.
How many lives did that armed civilian save before he gave his own? Likely quite a few.
But we mustn’t have THAT as part of the narrative, can we?
In this case, when seconds counted, the police were dead.