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1,000-mile EV battery to debut within two years
EV Fleet World ^ | 11 Jun 2014 | Alex Grant

Posted on 06/12/2014 11:16:36 AM PDT by thackney

Two companies have developed a new type of electric vehicle battery said to offer a 1,000 mile range, with prices and whole-life costs comparable to a conventional petrol or diesel engine. The joint project between metals specialist Alcoa and green technology company Phinergy has produced a demonstrator featuring an aluminium-air battery, designed as a range extender for the lithium-ion units used in most electric vehicles.

Already used in military applications, the battery uses a reaction with air and water over 50 aluminium plates, each of which can drive a car for up to 20 miles. The unit is designed so that drivers can exhaust the lithium-ion battery and continue using the energy in these cartridges but, as aluminium-air batteries are not rechargeable, the cartridges would have to be replaced afterwards.

Once depleted, the aluminium cartridges can be recycled to produce new ones. Alcoa and Phinergy hope to have the technology commercialised within the next year or two, boosting the range of electric vehicles by up to 1,000 miles without the weight or cost disadvantage of a larger lithium-ion unit.

Martin Briere, President of Alcoa Canada, said: ‘Automakers want technologies that enable zero-emission electric cars to travel distances that compete with gasoline-powered cars. The aluminum-air battery has the potential to meet that challenge using fully recyclable material with no CO2 emissions.’

Aviv Tzidon, CEO of Phinergy, added: ‘Electric vehicle adoption has been slowed by the limited range of regular batteries, causing what is commonly known as range anxiety. With Phinergy’s technology, and Alcoa’s industrial leadership across both the aluminum value chain and the automotive market, we see an exciting opportunity to help move electric vehicles into the mainstream.’


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: battery; efv; energy
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aluminium-air batteries are not rechargeable
1 posted on 06/12/2014 11:16:36 AM PDT by thackney
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To: thackney

Seems like we see this headline every two years.


2 posted on 06/12/2014 11:17:58 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ("The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government." --Tacitus)
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To: thackney

I guess Obama wants to pour more money into this operation before it goes bankrupt.


3 posted on 06/12/2014 11:20:09 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: thackney

Depending on how it is charged it may actually produce more air pollution than an internal combustion engine.


4 posted on 06/12/2014 11:21:30 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: Buckeye McFrog

Can’t be recharged. They must be recycled.


5 posted on 06/12/2014 11:23:10 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Haven't you lost enough freedoms? Support an end to the WOD now.)
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To: Buckeye McFrog

I only care about the dollars, which they fail to discuss.


6 posted on 06/12/2014 11:23:22 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Cicero

How about that. Obama has already visited the Phinergy plant in Israel, and seized the opportunity for a photo op.

http://www.hybridcars.com/renault-nissan-to-use-phinergys-aluminum-air-battery/


7 posted on 06/12/2014 11:23:57 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: thackney

Non rechargeable so basically you give up the benefits of a rechargeable battery and the convenience of tens of thousands of gas stations.

I’m sure there are some really good uses for this technology but cars may not be one of them.


8 posted on 06/12/2014 11:25:40 AM PDT by dangerdoc
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To: dangerdoc

Still a function of cost for me.

$10 for a thousand miles? I’ll order the units in advance.

$1,000 for a thousand miles? I keep using gasoline for my commute.

I don’t see it ever used for pulling the trailer.


9 posted on 06/12/2014 11:30:37 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: thackney
1,000-mile EV battery to debut within two years

Looking into my crystal ball for 1000 mile ev batteries and in two years I see ... nothing

10 posted on 06/12/2014 11:30:40 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: dangerdoc

It will be used as a range extender/back up battery.

You use lithium ion battery for your every day commute daily driving. 100-250 miles of range.

At 2 AM 30 miles from home you realize you have 1 mile left of lithium ion battery range. Aluminum air battery kicks in.

You are coming home form Las Vegas to Los Angeles. You want to stop half way to recharge. You notice a 1 hr line to get to the charging unit. You blow by it and when your lithium ion battery back goes empty you switch to aluminum air.

Every 1-5 years you go in and swap your old aluminum air non-rechargeable battery for a new one.

They are saying comparable to gas. So ~ $0.10 per mile cost retail.


11 posted on 06/12/2014 11:37:27 AM PDT by Reaganez
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To: thackney

Seems like a fancy way to burn bauxite for fuel. Sounds expensive.


12 posted on 06/12/2014 11:37:44 AM PDT by infool7 (The ugly truth is just a big lie.)
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To: thackney

This battery would have to be recycled for less than $115 in order to be cheaper than $4.00/gallon gasoline, as brand new, 2014 model, 35 mpg crapboxes can be purchased all day for $15K at EVERY car dealership.

Even my 420 HP mustang daily driver gets 23mpg, so my fuel cost for 1000 miles with $4 gallon gas is less than $175.

The math is tough to justify an electric car. Maybe Common Core math will teach kids that in “ends justifies the means math” that the TRUE COST of 1000 miles in a 35 mpg gas car is not $115, but really $1,500... so this battery is a bargain!

I also like how they refer to it as “zero emissions”. Yeah right.

If people think their electric cars are “zero emission” they are NIMBY idiots.


13 posted on 06/12/2014 11:42:02 AM PDT by UNGN (I've been here since '98 but had nothing to say until now)
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To: thackney

I think the real breakthrough will be a graphene based capacitor.


14 posted on 06/12/2014 11:42:48 AM PDT by cuban leaf
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To: thackney

Okey-dokey. I can scrounge a whole mess of cheap aluminum pots and trays, mashed up soda and beer cans, and such. Just need to know what that magic elixir is and I’m motoring!


15 posted on 06/12/2014 11:44:50 AM PDT by Covenantor ("Men are ruled...by liars who refuse them news, and by fools who cannot govern." Chesterton)
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To: from occupied ga

Yep.

I saw this abut a year ago and think it would be absolutely PERFECT for my commuter car (125 miles a day on KY twisties). April of 2014 they said.
$7,800 and 84 mpg

Still waiting.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1091718_fuel-efficient-elio-three-wheel-car-hits-15000-orders-before-production-starts

I had a friend that pre-ordered a sparrow 15 years or so ago. Never got one...
https://www.google.com/search?safe=off&hl=en&q=three+wheeled+car+sparrow&oq=three+wheeled+car+sparrow&gs_l=serp.3...5365.7662.0.8361.11.10.0.0.0.0.366.906.2-1j2.3.0.ernk_qsrb...0...1.1.46.serp..8.3.903.ZOoE2CJXJUk


16 posted on 06/12/2014 11:48:28 AM PDT by cuban leaf
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To: thackney
If it creates lower priced products allowing people more freedom to live their lives independently and move about freely, then the liberals will oppose it.

Solar panels and electric cars suit the Left's purposes now, but if it gets to a point where costs come down and those are readily available, then the statists will do a 180. The idea of people living off the grid and traveling wherever they want to go go freely and inexpensively is counter to their ultimate goal of central control of everyone's lives.

17 posted on 06/12/2014 11:48:59 AM PDT by ElkGroveDan (My tagline is in the shop.)
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To: Reaganez
You use lithium ion battery for your every day commute daily driving. 100-250 miles of range.

ALMOST right.

You use lithium ion battery for your every day commute daily driving. 100-250 20 - 50 miles of range.

18 posted on 06/12/2014 11:50:56 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: infool7

Bauxite is processed into alumina, and then into aluminium.

This is just going back from aluminum to alumina, the recycle back to aluminium.

Cost is the issue.


19 posted on 06/12/2014 11:51:51 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: cuban leaf

Super economy isn’t my thing anyway. I’d rather have a bit of power (505hp currently and avg 20 mpg on daily commute)


20 posted on 06/12/2014 11:53:34 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: thackney
Cost is the issue.

Nothing a good dose of crony capitalism can't handle....

21 posted on 06/12/2014 11:54:02 AM PDT by nascarnation (Toxic Baraq Syndrome: hopefully infecting a Dem candidate near you)
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To: thackney

So, this means you will have to replace the 1000 mile battery once a month (at least).

Most people drive more than a thousand miles a month. What is the price of this non-rechargeable battery?


22 posted on 06/12/2014 11:54:16 AM PDT by rusty schucklefurd
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To: from occupied ga

That would depend if you paid for a Tesla or a Leaf...


23 posted on 06/12/2014 11:54:49 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: from occupied ga

I AM right.

Phinergy-Alcoa’s plan is for automakers to use tiny lithium ion packs so they use more aluminum air packs.

That is not the plan of the automakers.

Tesla also has a similar patent.

There will be at least three competing firms making these. So Alcoa-Phinergy will not be able to dictate to automakers how they configure the lithium ion packs.


24 posted on 06/12/2014 11:54:54 AM PDT by Reaganez
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To: rusty schucklefurd

They describe it used as a range extender beyond the lithium rechargable battery.

Drive 20 miles to work and back, no use.

Drive out of town for a road trip, then you use it.


25 posted on 06/12/2014 11:56:51 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: from occupied ga

I currently drive an FR-S. I live in a motorcyclist’s paradise and this car takes full advantage of the twisties, every single day on my commute. It’s only got 200 hp, but it’s pretty light and the slippery tires not only allow me to drift every day, but get third gear chirping if I really, REALLY want to annoy someone...

But I’d give it up for this car which I suspect would handle pretty well too, of only because it is so small, but has a fairly long wheelbase.


26 posted on 06/12/2014 11:58:22 AM PDT by cuban leaf
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To: dangerdoc
Non rechargeable so basically you give up the benefits of a rechargeable battery

The only benefits to rechargables is recharging in a parking lot from large solar arrays nearby or charging with nuclear overnight. What will happen with rechargables on the highway is removing the old battery and inserting a new one. That's the only those will work on the fly and this would be no different.

That said, it's totally uneconomical just like current EVs.

27 posted on 06/12/2014 11:58:46 AM PDT by palmer (There's someone in my lead but it's not me)
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To: thackney

So what is the total cost, including subsidies and tax breaks? What is the total amount of pollution, considering all phases of production, and ultimate disposal of the units?


28 posted on 06/12/2014 11:59:37 AM PDT by I want the USA back (Media: completely irresponsible. Complicit in the destruction of this country.)
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To: Reaganez

Going by history as to how electric vehicles actually perform in real world conditions - night (lights) winter (heater) summer (air-conditioning) wretched traffic (stuck runing heat or air and not going anywhere) I had friends at Ga Power who used to use company electric cars. I remember one guy went from downtown to the perimeter (about 18 miles) and ran out of juice to get back. Fortunately there was a costco with an electric charging station nearby, so after an hour or two he was able to return.


29 posted on 06/12/2014 12:02:54 PM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: UNGN

“This battery would have to be recycled for less than $115 in order to be cheaper than $4.00/gallon gasoline, as brand new, 2014 model, 35 mpg crapboxes can be purchased all day for $15K at EVERY car dealership.

Even my 420 HP mustang daily driver gets 23mpg, so my fuel cost for 1000 miles with $4 gallon gas is less than $175.

This EV would not need your $8000 gas engine. Factor that into the cost. (Actually, their targeted market would be hybrids)


30 posted on 06/12/2014 12:04:00 PM PDT by TexasGator
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To: cuban leaf
Lotus? maybe even cheaper


31 posted on 06/12/2014 12:08:11 PM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: thackney
Toyota is going to drop all electric vehicles and focus on on Hybrid and Hydrogen. Click Here for Story
32 posted on 06/12/2014 12:08:15 PM PDT by HOYA97 (twitter @hoya97)
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To: thackney

Fancy batteries run at an optimal temp, vary that either way and everything skews downward.

Zero-emissions is a fantasy, maybe at the operating end of the first drive, but not in production, maintenance or repair/replacement. Just like everything else....

There is no free ride, (or free lunches).


33 posted on 06/12/2014 12:09:12 PM PDT by Manly Warrior (US ARMY (Ret), "No Free Lunches for the Dogs of War")
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To: HOYA97

The Hybrids I understand, the Hydrogen not at all.


34 posted on 06/12/2014 12:09:35 PM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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BFL


35 posted on 06/12/2014 12:10:10 PM PDT by Lurkina.n.Learnin
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To: from occupied ga

LOTUS: Lots Of Trouble, Usually Serious.


36 posted on 06/12/2014 12:10:48 PM PDT by nascarnation (Toxic Baraq Syndrome: hopefully infecting a Dem candidate near you)
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To: cuban leaf
I'm on the wait list for the Elio.

37 posted on 06/12/2014 12:11:17 PM PDT by outofsalt
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To: nascarnation
LOTUS: Lots Of Trouble, Usually Serious.

LOL

38 posted on 06/12/2014 12:12:55 PM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: thackney

Think of a diesel-electric locomotive: it burns diesel fuel to generate electricity (ac converted to dc) which drives the engine.

In the system described in the article, aluminum is oxidized by air (in effect “burned”) to generate energy electrochemically, which drives the engine.

One critical difference: one can obtain diesel by refining petroleum you find in holes in the ground (essentially), but you’re not going to find any naturally-occurring aluminum metal.

The “fuel” for the electrochemical system has to be refined using, yes, electricity - and due to losses associated with the laws of thermodynamics, you have to put more electricity into the system than that which you ultimately get out.

So essentially this system allows available primary forms of energy (coal, nukes, etc) to be used in a transportation system. Whether it’s economically viable is another question.


39 posted on 06/12/2014 12:14:19 PM PDT by Stosh
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To: from occupied ga

TSLA’s Lithium Ion 60kw battery has a 230 mile range and the 80kw battery has a 300 mile range.


40 posted on 06/12/2014 12:14:37 PM PDT by Wyatt's Torch
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To: from occupied ga

One of my buddies in Cleveland has a fleet of vintage Lotus cars.
Neat cars but rarely running.


41 posted on 06/12/2014 12:14:57 PM PDT by nascarnation (Toxic Baraq Syndrome: hopefully infecting a Dem candidate near you)
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To: from occupied ga

First generation gasoline powered cars at the turn of the century were also crap.

Mrs Henry Ford drove Detroit Electric.

Second and third generation lithium ion electric cars will advance very quickly.

Gas cars also have lower range in winter, when using air conditioner etc.

Difference is they have longer average range and more refueling stations.

The gap is going to close rather quickly.

Particularly with a backup aluminum air battery pack.


42 posted on 06/12/2014 12:16:14 PM PDT by Reaganez
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To: thackney

I stand corrected. I appreciate the explanation.


43 posted on 06/12/2014 12:19:38 PM PDT by rusty schucklefurd
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

I’ve been seeing it every year or so since 1979......


44 posted on 06/12/2014 12:19:44 PM PDT by nuke rocketeer (File CONGRESS.SYS corrupted: Re-boot Washington D.C (Y/N)?)
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To: Wyatt's Torch
battery has a 230 mile range and the 80kw battery has a 300 mile range.

Maybe in ideal conditions.

45 posted on 06/12/2014 12:20:11 PM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: thackney

How much government subsidy will be needed to make it competitive with a tank of gasoline and a good IC engine?


46 posted on 06/12/2014 12:20:32 PM PDT by nuke rocketeer (File CONGRESS.SYS corrupted: Re-boot Washington D.C (Y/N)?)
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To: Reaganez
The gap is going to close rather quickly.

If you say so. It hasn't yet and people have been screwing with electric cars a long time.

47 posted on 06/12/2014 12:21:44 PM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: Stosh
you have to put more electricity into the system than that which you ultimately get out.

That is the description of every battery.

48 posted on 06/12/2014 12:23:21 PM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: TexasGator
This EV would not need your $8000 gas engine. Factor that into the cost.

because Electric motors and controllers are free, right?

$12K Nissan Versa's don't have "$8,000 Engines".

If it costs more than $200 to recycle this batery, its DOA. If the numbers add up to you, your math skills are lacking.

49 posted on 06/12/2014 12:30:35 PM PDT by UNGN (I've been here since '98 but had nothing to say until now)
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To: from occupied ga

I do say so.

They have not made full size electric sedans that accelerate from 0-60 in 4 seconds flat for a long time.

Lithium ion vehicles have only been around for a little over a decade.

No automaker has taken electric cars seriously,none has used economies of scale to get the price down.

Tesla is now in the process of doing just that.

It appears that Nissan is beginning to follow Tesla too by increasing the the range of 2016 LEAF to a reasonable number and creating a new Infiniti EV.


50 posted on 06/12/2014 12:37:25 PM PDT by Reaganez
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