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Magna Carta
Magna Charta Plus ^ | June 15, 1015 | Unknown

Posted on 06/15/2014 8:49:29 AM PDT by ZULU

John, by the grace of God, king of England, lord of Ireland, duke of Normandy and Aquitaine, and count of Anjou, to the archbishops, bishops, abbots, earls, barons, justiciars, foresters, sheriffs, stewards, servants, and to all his bailiffs and faithful subjects, greeting.

Know that, having regard to God and for the salvation of our soul, and those of all our ancestors and heirs, and unto the honour of God and the advancement of the holy Church, and for the reform of our realm, by advice of our venerable fathers, Stephen archbishop of Canterbury, primate of all England and cardinal of the holy Roman church, Henry archbishop of Dublin, William of London, Peter of Winchester, Jocelyn of Bath and Glastonbury, Hugh of Lincoln, Walter of Worcester, William of Coventry, Benedict of Rochester, bishops; of master Pandulf, subdeacon and member of the household of our lord the Pope, of brother Aymeric (master of the Knights of the Temple in England), and of the illustrious men William Marshall earl of Pembroke, William earl of Salisbury, William earl of Warenne, William earl of Arundel, Alan of Galloway (constable of Scotland), Waren Fitz Gerald, Peter Fits Herbert, Hubert de Burgh (seneschal of Poitou), Hugh de Neville, Matthew Fitz Herbert, Thomas Basset, Alan Basset, Philip d’Aubigny, Robert of Roppesley, John Marshall, John Fitz Hugh, and of other faithful subjects.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: magnacarta
Once again, the Great Charter in Translation.
1 posted on 06/15/2014 8:49:29 AM PDT by ZULU
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To: ZULU

An excerpt. Se link for entire document in translation,


2 posted on 06/15/2014 8:50:28 AM PDT by ZULU (Impeach Obama NOW.)
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To: ZULU
Didn't John renege on his promises in the Magna Carta?
3 posted on 06/15/2014 8:58:30 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need more than seven rounds, Much more.)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
Yes, but it was a first step - AND IT WAS 1215, not 1015 - hit the wrong key.
4 posted on 06/15/2014 8:59:24 AM PDT by ZULU (Impeach Obama NOW.)
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To: ZULU

I had the pleasure of seeing one of the original copies of the Magna Carta which is in Salisbury Cathedral. Impressive.

The information there said that King John later died of dysentery, brought on my eating too many peaches. I guess he was the first head of state ever impeached. Some also say that we sometimes refer to the water closet as a “john” in commemoration of the place that King John died.


5 posted on 06/15/2014 9:07:40 AM PDT by Cap Huff
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

John did renege on his promises which caused some of his supporters who signed as guarantors to go with the barons in subsequent conflicts.

I have been able to trace several family lines to the guarantors, William earl of Salisbury, William earl of Warenne, and one line to King John. William earl of Salisbury was also known as William Longspee and was the the son of Henry II by one of his mistresses, half-brother to King John.

The barons were primarily interested in maintaining control of their individual fiefdoms and most didn’t give a damn about the serfs and common man.

The basic concept of limiting royal power have renewed meaning today in this republic that threw off the chains of royal tyranny only to have a kenyan usurper set himself up as an autocratic ruler.

He and his party, one way or the other, need to be swept into the cesspool of history.


6 posted on 06/15/2014 9:13:48 AM PDT by RJS1950 (The democrats are the "enemies foreign and domestic" cited in the federal oath)
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To: ZULU

Ping for later reading.


7 posted on 06/15/2014 9:13:56 AM PDT by Parmy
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

Yep. The opposition to him was a coalition of the Church and (most of) the barons. John detached the Church by the simple, though dishonorable, expedient of making England a vassal state of the Papacy. Pope promptly annulled Magna Carta, or tried to, and ordered churchmen to support John.

Interestingly, many modern historians consider John to have been a pretty good king, by modern standards, as opposed to his brother Richard certainly, who was terrible by today’s standards.

But those weren’t the standards that were relevant. No English king, not even Richard III or Charles I, has ever been as unanimously loathed by his people as John. You my note there has never been a John II.

The basic reason is that personal honor was the basis of society at the time. A vassal’s life and property and family were more or less utterly dependent on his lord’s honoring his commitments. When a lord was dishonorable, or perceived to be, everything fell apart.

Richard was perceived as highly honorable, and John as utterly dishonorable.


8 posted on 06/15/2014 9:14:08 AM PDT by Sherman Logan (Perception wins all the battles. Reality wins all the wars.)
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To: ZULU

Since the Julian Calendar was in use then, the actual anniversary will be on June 22.


9 posted on 06/15/2014 9:15:50 AM PDT by reg45 (Barack 0bama: Implementing class warfare by having no class.)
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To: ZULU

Yes,it was 1215(Runnymede).William didn’t defeat Harold until 1066(Hastings).


10 posted on 06/15/2014 9:36:54 AM PDT by bandleader
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To: ZULU

bfl


11 posted on 06/15/2014 9:47:03 AM PDT by Oshkalaboomboom
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To: ZULU

And a copy will be in Houston for viewing. I plan to take my family.


12 posted on 06/15/2014 9:53:25 AM PDT by ro_dreaming (Chesterton, 'Christianity has not been tried and found wanting. It’s been found hard and not tried')
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To: ZULU

I remember reading a book on the Magna Carta a couple of years ago and noticed that they used locally made wine to seal the deal.

Vineyards and wine in England?

Whole lotta Global Warming going on back then.


13 posted on 06/15/2014 9:59:13 AM PDT by eddie willers
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To: zot; Interesting Times

new translation of the Magna Carta at the link


14 posted on 06/15/2014 10:47:33 AM PDT by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: eddie willers
Vineyards and wine in England?

Key Facts (based on 2012 data)
Number of Vineyards: 432
Average Size of Vineyard: 3.33 Hectares
Annual Production: 1.03m bottles
Total Hectarage under vine: 1,438 Hectares
Number of Wineries: 128

:)
15 posted on 06/15/2014 1:04:13 PM PDT by moose07 (the truth will out ,one day. ........dot removal in progress.......)
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To: GreyFriar

Thanks for the ping. The Magna Carta was a large step in the right direction.


16 posted on 06/15/2014 3:33:48 PM PDT by zot
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To: eddie willers

“Vineyards and wine in England?”

Didn’t Vikings find grapes in Newfoundland (Vineland)?


17 posted on 06/15/2014 7:26:34 PM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic warfare against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: kearnyirish2

‘Vitis riparia’ wild grapes still grow there wild.


18 posted on 06/15/2014 7:34:48 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: ZULU

And that’s just the “To:” line of the document. Now we expect the whole thing to fit in that space.


19 posted on 06/15/2014 7:49:26 PM PDT by ctdonath2 ("If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun" - Obama, setting RoE with his opposition)
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To: ro_dreaming

http://blog.chron.com/intheloop/2014/06/magna-carta-travels-to-houston/

Houston is the first city outside of the United Kingdom to host the Magna Carta. The historic document is on exhibit at the Houston Museum of Natural Science until August 17 when it will fly home to Hereford Cathedral for its 800th anniversary.


20 posted on 06/16/2014 4:34:49 AM PDT by ro_dreaming (Chesterton, 'Christianity has not been tried and found wanting. It’s been found hard and not tried')
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To: ZULU

We were assigned to read and discuss this back in high school. I doubt that it is even mentioned in todays high schools.

I remember when I first read it that I was disappointed. It seemed to be mainly the rich carving out protections for themselves. In addition there was a lot of settling of scores (a number of people and their families were banned from holding any kind of office). However, I have since realized that it was the first baby step and for that reason, important.


21 posted on 06/16/2014 10:10:47 AM PDT by jim_trent
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To: jim_trent

“However, I have since realized that it was the first baby step and for that reason, important.”

There were many steps before and after, see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assize_of_Clarendon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisions_of_Oxford

Things in effective governance proceed by degrees or they are unstable. The idiots who keep beating the Founding Fathers over the head over the slavery issue is an example.
Those fools seem unable to realize that the transition from subject to citizen was traumatic enough.

It took over 1000 yrs of political evolution and experimentation in England to result in the Declaration of Independence and Constitution.

That’s why it was equally idiotic to think a bunch of pastoral troglodytes in the Middle East could be brought screaming and kicking into a 21st Century Democracy overnight when they hadn’t taken any of the preliminary steps on their own.

We are very very fortunate and owe a lot to our English cultural and legal forebearers for what we currently enjoy - and are in danger of losing to Islamic chaos.


22 posted on 06/16/2014 10:25:32 AM PDT by ZULU (Impeach Obama NOW.)
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To: ZULU

It’s slow and steady compromise and not bloody revolution. That’s good politics and conservatives have to recognize that conservative politicians cannot move in a straight line back to the Constitution. It’s not that easy.


23 posted on 06/16/2014 4:14:28 PM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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