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Supreme Court rules on 'straw purchaser' gun law
tulsaworld.com ^ | 06/16/2014 | AP

Posted on 06/16/2014 9:51:05 AM PDT by aimhigh

A divided Supreme Court sided with gun control groups and the Obama administration Monday, ruling that the federal ban on "straw" purchases of guns can be enforced even if the ultimate buyer is legally allowed to own a gun.

The justices ruled 5-4 that the law applied to a Virginia man who bought a gun with the intention of transferring it to a relative in Pennsylvania who was not prohibited from owning firearms.

(Excerpt) Read more at tulsaworld.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government
KEYWORDS: banglist; scotus; straw; strawpurchases; supremecourt
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1 posted on 06/16/2014 9:51:05 AM PDT by aimhigh
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To: aimhigh

I will not comply.


2 posted on 06/16/2014 9:52:53 AM PDT by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: aimhigh

I thought you already had to declare that you were not buying a firearm for someone else on the form you fill out at the gun store.


3 posted on 06/16/2014 9:53:31 AM PDT by ReaganÜberAlles (Remember, you can't spell "progressive" without "SS".)
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To: aimhigh
THREE FELONIES A DAY: How the Feds Target the Innocent
4 posted on 06/16/2014 9:53:44 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ("The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government." --Tacitus)
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To: aimhigh; Lurking Libertarian; Perdogg; JDW11235; Clairity; Spacetrucker; Art in Idaho; GregNH; ...

FReepmail me to subscribe to or unsubscribe from the SCOTUS ping list.

5 posted on 06/16/2014 9:53:48 AM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind. ~Steve Earle)
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To: aimhigh

Guess they forgot about “shall not be infringed”.


6 posted on 06/16/2014 9:54:45 AM PDT by Colonel_Flagg ("Compromise" means you've already decided you lost.)
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To: aimhigh

Which way did Roberts rule?


7 posted on 06/16/2014 9:54:55 AM PDT by GraceG
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To: aimhigh

So I interpret this as no more giving guns as a gift.


8 posted on 06/16/2014 9:56:08 AM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: aimhigh; All
One more reason to move to Maine and help us secede. From the proposed Constitution that will be voted on at the secession vote on June 12, 2018:

Section 6. The Militia and the standing army of 1,000. So as to insure and guarantee the rights guaranteed in this Constitution, every natural born male in the Republic of Maine, upon reaching the age of 18 years from conception through age 67 years from conception, has, as a member of the Militia, the obligation to keep and bear arms for the common defense, for his and his families protection, to defend against this government or any government in the future from becoming oppressive, tyrannical, or in any other way obnoxious to freedom, and to secure the rights written in this Constitution. This obligation shall never be questioned. No law shall be passed that restricts this obligation, except for time in a local jail, county jail or Maine Republic prison. No law shall be passed, test given, or fee assessed to any citizen of the Republic of Maine, age 18 from the age of conception, both male and female, that would restrict in any way that citizens right to be armed either concealed or open. Males who are found to be or confess to being homosexuals are refused entry and from serving in either the Militia or the standing army. Males over the age of 67 may be voluntary members of the Militia with the full rights of Militia members. Natural born males between the age of 16 years from conception to 18 years from conception may volunteer for Militia service with the written permission of parents or guardians. The standing army of 1,000 shall be drawn from the Militia by the commander of the Militia and is under the command of the commander of the Militia who is appointed by and reports directly to the President.


9 posted on 06/16/2014 9:56:18 AM PDT by The_Republic_Of_Maine (Be kept informed on Maine's secession, sign up at freemaine@hushmail.com)
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To: aimhigh

WTF - I just bought my son his first gun to give him on his birthday, I committed a felony over a stupid Mossberg 500 youth model???????


10 posted on 06/16/2014 9:56:39 AM PDT by Abathar (Proudly posting without reading the article carefully since 2004)
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To: GraceG
Which way did Roberts rule?

He ruled that it was a tax.

11 posted on 06/16/2014 9:56:40 AM PDT by Principled (Obama: Unblemished by success.)
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To: aimhigh
the law applied to a Virginia man who bought a gun with the intention of transferring it to a relative

And they knew this how?

Either they are mind readers, or the fellow was... um... unwise, in stating so.

So firearms for Christmas is out?

12 posted on 06/16/2014 9:56:42 AM PDT by grobdriver (Where is Wilson Blair when you need him?)
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Majority: Kagan, Kennedy, Breyer, Ginsburg, Sotomayor


13 posted on 06/16/2014 9:56:50 AM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind. ~Steve Earle)
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To: ReaganÜberAlles

There are exceptions for that condition contained in the instructions that accompany the Form 4473. Given that, I’m guessing there is an inter-state aspect to this that doesn’t fall under a ‘relative/gift’ situation.

Regardless, the situation probably arose because of the ‘transfer’ action. I’m guessing that’s more than just selling or giving. It depends on what the laws were.


14 posted on 06/16/2014 9:56:53 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: aimhigh

So! You cannot purchase a firearm as a gift.


15 posted on 06/16/2014 9:57:18 AM PDT by reg45 (Barack 0bama: Implementing class warfare by having no class.)
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To: ReaganÜberAlles

Former LEO, Bruce James Abramski, Jr. lied on the 4473 form when asked if he was purchasing the gun for himself.


16 posted on 06/16/2014 9:57:31 AM PDT by fulltlt
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To: ReaganÜberAlles
I thought you already had to declare that you were not buying a firearm for someone else on the form you fill out at the gun store.

That's what the form says; the question before the Court was whether you violate the law by lying on that form if you are buying the gun for someone who could have legally bought it himself.

17 posted on 06/16/2014 9:58:00 AM PDT by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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To: aimhigh

Does this mean we can no longer ‘gift’ a firearm to someone who is legally permitted to own a firearm without possibly being prosecuted?


18 posted on 06/16/2014 9:58:12 AM PDT by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: Abathar

Go on the web and down load the Form 4473 and INSTRUCTIONS. There are exceptions given for relative gifts. Check it out.


19 posted on 06/16/2014 9:58:19 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: ReaganÜberAlles

yeah, I thought so too. Been awhile since I bought mine but I seem to remember that.


20 posted on 06/16/2014 9:58:29 AM PDT by RIghtwardHo
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To: fulltlt
It's good to lie to tyrants. It's also good to ignore or get around their tyrannical laws.

/johnny

21 posted on 06/16/2014 9:59:52 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: GraceG

He voted with the 4. Kennedy joined the majority.


22 posted on 06/16/2014 9:59:53 AM PDT by RIghtwardHo
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To: taxcontrol
So I interpret this as no more giving guns as a gift.

Right. The Long March to total gun control continues.

One more avenue of exercising your Natural Right to Self-Defense closed off by our masters in government.

23 posted on 06/16/2014 10:00:53 AM PDT by an amused spectator (Islamic law upholds that children born to a Muslim father are automatically Muslim)
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To: aimhigh

Justice Kagan essentially says that gun registration is Constitutional and 4 other justices agreed with her. Not good.


24 posted on 06/16/2014 10:00:53 AM PDT by centurion316
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To: aimhigh

How do you prove INTENT? And where is the constitutional authority? I will not comply.


25 posted on 06/16/2014 10:01:49 AM PDT by Salvavida (The restoration of the U.S.A. starts with filling the pews at every Bible-believing church.)
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To: JRandomFreeper

What got him in trouble is his uncle had asked him to buy the gun for him and then wrote him a check for $400 with “Glock 19 handgun” written in the memo line.


26 posted on 06/16/2014 10:01:58 AM PDT by fulltlt
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To: aimhigh
A "straw purchase" is usually connoted as a purchase for resale, not for a gift. Were it interpreted the latter way no giving of firearms would be legal, even that which is explicitly allowed by current law.

I'll be waiting for government clarification before I give any firearms away. Not.

27 posted on 06/16/2014 10:02:21 AM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: centurion316

And so the 2008 and 2012 election consequences continue.


28 posted on 06/16/2014 10:03:07 AM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: aimhigh
This is just more proof we have our Second Amendment rights only as long as five of nine Supreme Court Justices agree we have these rights.
29 posted on 06/16/2014 10:04:55 AM PDT by DJ Taylor (Once again our country is at war,and once again the Democrats have sided with our enemy.)
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To: aimhigh

How about the legality of a straw government?


30 posted on 06/16/2014 10:05:31 AM PDT by Psalm 144 (Happier than a Svoboda skinhead with a free armband.)
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To: F15Eagle
And so the 2008 and 2012 election consequences continue.

According to many on this forum, not so - no difference at all between Obama and the two Republican candidates

31 posted on 06/16/2014 10:06:25 AM PDT by centurion316
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To: grobdriver; taxcontrol

“So I interpret this as no more giving guns as a gift.”
“So firearms for Christmas is out?”


Looks like it.

My question is what if I jump through all the legal hoops (4473, etc.) and buy a gun, then two weeks later want to upgrade and need to sell it?

Does that make me a ‘straw purchaser’?


32 posted on 06/16/2014 10:06:28 AM PDT by panaxanax
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To: grobdriver
And they knew this how? Either they are mind readers, or the fellow was... um... unwise, in stating so.

From the article: "The case began after Bruce James Abramski, Jr. bought a Glock 19 handgun in Collinsville, Virginia, in 2009 and later transferred it to his uncle in Easton, Pennsylvania. Abramski, a former police officer, had assured the Virginia dealer he was the "actual buyer" of the weapon even though he had already offered to buy the gun for his uncle using a police discount. Abramski purchased the gun three days after his uncle had written him a check for $400 with "Glock 19 handgun" written in the memo line."

33 posted on 06/16/2014 10:06:34 AM PDT by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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To: DJ Taylor
My right to keep and bear arms is not conditioned on anything any court may rule, or any laws that may be passed.

My right came from God, and no court can take it away. The most they can do is kill me.

/johnny

34 posted on 06/16/2014 10:07:26 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: ReaganÜberAlles; All

That part is vague in its enforcement...It is difficult to know where the guns go after the walk out of the store...

I would not go so far as to advocate a lie...

I too would like to see the breakdown of where they fell on this opinion...And, who swung it against us...


35 posted on 06/16/2014 10:07:32 AM PDT by stevie_d_64 (Will work for a new Kidney...)
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To: aimhigh

Could have some weight if “Fast and Furious” felons ever get prosecuted.


36 posted on 06/16/2014 10:07:53 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (Only Liberals can look at an amendment that says "shall not be infringed" and see blank parchment.)
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To: fulltlt

Stoopid is, as stooped does...


37 posted on 06/16/2014 10:08:20 AM PDT by stevie_d_64 (Will work for a new Kidney...)
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To: centurion316

I know. There were other battles; that have now been lost.

I was not happy either, but the choices were hard.

Oy vey.

The SC is all but buried in liberals, now.


38 posted on 06/16/2014 10:10:13 AM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: All

the breakdown:

#############

Writing for the majority, Justice Elena Kagan said the federal government’s elaborate system of background checks and record-keeping requirements help law enforcement investigate crimes by tracing guns to their buyers. Those provisions would mean little, she said, if a would-be gun buyer could evade them by simply getting another person to buy the gun and fill out the paperwork.

Kagan’s opinion was joined by Justice Anthony Kennedy, who is often considered the court’s swing vote, as well as liberal Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Stephen Breyer and Sonia Sotomayor.

In dissent, Justice Antonin Scalia said the language of the law does not support making it a crime for one lawful gun owner to buy a gun for another lawful gun owner. He was joined by the court’s other conservatives — Chief Justice John Roberts and Justices Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito.


39 posted on 06/16/2014 10:10:36 AM PDT by stevie_d_64 (Will work for a new Kidney...)
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To: fulltlt

oops

The correct way to do this is for the gun to be a gift and the $400 to be in cash...

...or if a check must be used, the memo line should read: “My share of dinner & drinks - it was good to see you all” (or something similar).


40 posted on 06/16/2014 10:10:59 AM PDT by WayneS (Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.)
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To: Abathar

No, you didn’t...

The felony would be that your son would not learn how to use it...;-)


41 posted on 06/16/2014 10:11:57 AM PDT by stevie_d_64 (Will work for a new Kidney...)
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To: aimhigh

Another great ruling by that so called right wing majority the libs are always whining about. Speaking of straw men.

When will people realize that they will never get their grievances redressed in the US court system. The federal courts are here to assist and benefit the government, not the citizens.


42 posted on 06/16/2014 10:12:29 AM PDT by ChildOfThe60s ((If you can remember the 60s.....you weren't really there)
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To: panaxanax

My suggestion is that if you need to sell a weapon, be sure to do it with the involvement of an FFL dealer so all paperwork is legal and proper.

I had to sell of or or pawn my weapons simply to survive at one point. Hated to do it; still regret it. But that’s the way it was. And to an FFL dealer so it was all legit.

Anyone who purchased them had to go through the legal checks.


43 posted on 06/16/2014 10:12:56 AM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: aimhigh

I can understand the false statement and background check avoidance aspects but “trace firearms”??? Is Kagan documenting judicial notice that we have a defacto gun registry even though that’s prohibited by law (and the Constitution)?


44 posted on 06/16/2014 10:13:23 AM PDT by NonValueAdded ("The Arab Spring is over. Welcome to the Jihadi Spring." Jonah Goldberg)
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To: F15Eagle

argh - I hate typos

“sell off”


45 posted on 06/16/2014 10:14:16 AM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: aimhigh

Wonder how tough it is to remove a SC Justice from the bench? Is it an impeachment process, probably, or are charges levied by the people for Malfeasance in Office, or rulings that are easily seen to be totally against the Constitution, or traitorous activities possible? Are civil suits possible? I know that in general the Feds are immune in the performance of their duties but what about not performing their duties, think protection of borders? Or as I hear more and more would the people have no standing? In other words, who will judge the judges?


46 posted on 06/16/2014 10:15:16 AM PDT by Foundahardheadedwoman (God don't have a statute of limitations)
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To: NonValueAdded
"I can understand the false statement and background check avoidance aspects but “trace firearms”??? Is Kagan documenting judicial notice that we have a defacto gun registry even though that’s prohibited by law (and the Constitution)?"

Yeah, I'd really like to know how the evidence was collected in this case.

47 posted on 06/16/2014 10:15:31 AM PDT by fulltlt
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To: taxcontrol; Abathar; grobdriver; reg45; KoRn; panaxanax

This decision does NOT mean that firearm gifts are now illegal.

You are the actual buyer if you are purchasing the firearm as a gift. You are not the actual buyer if you purchase a firearm at the behest of someone else.


48 posted on 06/16/2014 10:15:33 AM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind. ~Steve Earle)
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To: aimhigh
Writing for the majority, Justice Elena Kagan said the federal government’s elaborate system of background checks and record-keeping requirements help law enforcement investigate crimes by tracing guns to their buyers.

I thought the background checks were destroyed after a certain amount of time. /sarc intended

49 posted on 06/16/2014 10:15:36 AM PDT by mykroar (We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again. - Nathanael Greene)
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To: aimhigh

This ruling has nothing to do with gifts. It has to do with buying a gun for someone who has or is giving you money to do so.


50 posted on 06/16/2014 10:16:27 AM PDT by Starstruck (If my reply offends, you probably don't understand sarcasm or criticism...or do.)
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