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To: Fennie

Several border incidents have happened in recent days.

Ukrainian mortar shells falling on Russian Territory after a fight near the border, Debris from an airstrike on a then-rebel controlled border post falling on Russian Border Guards, etc.

The Embassy violence in Kiev, and the consulate demonstration in Odessa.

The biggest one though, and likely the last straw, was several Ukrainian APC’s crossing into Russia searching for a reported Tank Transporter. They rolled one of the APC’s into a deep ditch, and had to abandon it.

In addition, Kiev is currently moving a lot of troops near the border, as well.

5 posted on 06/17/2014 8:06:17 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: tcrlaf

The Embassy in Kiev is a big deal. All the NATO troops have put troops on their borders. What is Russia supposed to do....Look the other way like Obama??

7 posted on 06/17/2014 8:19:13 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: tcrlaf

Bloomberg News

Russia has 38,000 troops in borderlands,

Ukraine says:

8 posted on 06/17/2014 8:20:28 AM PDT by Fennie
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To: tcrlaf; Fennie; Samogon; Genoa; 1rudeboy; C210N; Sacajaweau; billakay; Sam Gamgee; McGruff; ...
The biggest one though, and likely the last straw,

You are a lying Muscovite goober who thinks we are all idiots, especially with this whole "Russia just couldn't take Ukraine's abuse no more!". The Russian military did not start amassing today. It started when the Ukrainians reclaimed a city and took back a portion of the border. Every time Ukraine makes progress your Commie-pals threaten the border. The last time it happened, Ukraine backed off and the Separatists consolidated their positions. This is, as the Intereprter puts it, a combination of covert war making and overt threats:

"[b]y late April the separatists controlled large parts of the east, and Ukraine’s military launched its anti-terror operation (ATO). On April 23rd and 24th, the Ukrainian military was in a position to recapture Slavyansk, the headquarters for the insurgents. However, that day videos and eyewitness reports confirmed that convoys of Russian tanks, troops, and equipment were racing toward the border. In light of this threat, Ukraine announced that it was halting its ATO out of concern that Russia would directly intercede. As such, the overt threat of Russian force allowed the covert Russian-backed insurgency to grow in strength to the point where by late May the separatists were so well armed and equipped that they were winning new military victories against the Ukrainian security forces. With the threat of the defeat of the insurgency defused, Russia made new pledges to withdraw its troops from Ukraine’s borders.

In the last several weeks the media has focused on Russians signs that it was deescalating the conflict by withdrawing its troops and recognizing Ukraine’s presidential election. While Russia made the pledge to withdraw a total of three times, only days (and really more than a week) after the third pledge did NATO notice any substantial troop movement away from Ukraine’s borders. This, combined with the fact that Russia has recognized the election of Ukraine’s new president Petro Poroshenko, had given the media the impression that Russia is interested in closing this crisis and move on. Russia, according to this narrative, is no longer moving forward with plans to invade Ukraine.

But while Russia was making these overtures, the situation in eastern Ukraine was actually dramatically decaying. In late May, after resisting several waves of Ukraine’s military operation to retake territory held by the armed separatists, Russian-backed gunmen stormed the Donetsk airport, briefly taking the facility before Ukraine recaptured it (with the assistance of airstrikes from helicopters and fighter jets). All estimates suggest that at least 50 separatists were killed in those attacks. But as was discussed earlier, in the days that followed, between 31 and 33 bodies were shipped back to Russia. That could mean that the majority of the dead separatists were Russian citizens.

Following this incident, the Vostok battalion established military control of the separatist leadership and began to attack Ukrainian National Guard bases and border outposts. Those attacks secured a significant amount of firepower for the insurgents, further reinforcing the probable deniability that the militants were not armed by the Kremlin but through captured stores of Ukrainian arms. But these victories have also allowed the separatists to move fighters, arms, trucks and armored vehicles, and possibly even tanks across the border to militarily sure up the pro-Russian insurgency.

Between June 14th and 16th, however, the Ukrainian military stepped up its anti-terror operations. By the morning of June 16th, a much more robust military response to separatist gains had recaptured Mariupol and was poised to recapture Lugansk and secure the border, thus shutting the separatists off from Russia. In response to this new threat to the insurgency, videos and eyewitness reports back up claims from the Ukrainian government that convoys of Russian troops are once again racing toward the Ukrainian border. After weeks of supposed deescalation, the moment the insurgency is threatened in eastern Ukraine the Kremlin has reacted with an overt threat, an attempt to intimidate Ukraine into halting its success for fear of triggering a Russian military response that would guarantee defeat."

Secondly, you slimeball, provide non-Russian sources for every detail of your post. You told me before, when the news came out that the Russians sent over 3 tanks across the border, that allegedly (because you are an idiot), the separatists captured 3 tanks, in order to keep holding on to the lie that Russia isn't involved with the separatists, despite the constant stream of fighters and weapons passing heavily militarized Russian positions, as if they didn't notice all those Chechens riding in the back of trucks and into Ukraine!

But it turns out your "captured tank" story was straight out of fringe Russian media and you didn't even bother to note that. Maybe that is why all your posts are assertions and not any supporting links?

From the same Interpreter link noting Russian deception:

"The most recent incident that points to direct Russian intervention, as opposed to funding or logistical support, was the appearance of three T-64BV tanks in the eastern Ukrainian town of Snezhnoye on Thursday the 12th of June... An interesting aspect of this story is that, a pro-Kremlin Russian news site, which has spread disinformation in the past, published a story on the 9th of June, three days ahead of the appearance of the tanks on Snezhnoye, describing the capture of three Ukrainian T-64s by separatist fighters.

The claim sticks out for a number of reasons. Firstly, the report provides no sources, instead opaquely citing “reports from social networks”. Secondly, no other media outlet, Russian or Ukrainian, picked up on this report. Such news would be expected to be of major significance as the separatists have so far lacked any heavy armour. The Ukrainian military has issued no report of such a loss either. Thirdly, there has been no other evidence of this seizure online. Usually separatist fighters upload video and photos of their conquests, regularly parading captured armoured personnel carriers. These vehicles are sighted and reported by locals and journalists too. In the intervening three days, there was nothing to suggest this report was real. Instead, it appears as if the report was inserted into the media by Russian agents ahead of a planned operation to send three tanks of that model into Ukrainian territory. The vehicles were chosen as they are widely used by the Ukrainian military but are out of service in Russia itself. However, a report by the International Institute for Strategic Studies, published last year, said that Russia had a large number of these tanks in storage as reserves. The vehicles visible in the video from Snezhnoye are noticeably without markings or the camouflage pattern usually seen on Ukrainian army armour. Anton Geraschenko, an adviser to the Ukrainian Ministry of Internal Affairs, has publicly speculated that the tanks were selected so as to manipulate public opinion."

Any one who relies on Russian media is in to be fooled. Some examples:

Russian media has used footage from Iraq to prove Ukrainian war crimes:

Russian media has used footage of Russian missile attacks in South Ossetia and presented them as taking place in Ukraine:

Movie stills are used and presented as authentic:

Fake accounts told by Russian press stooges:

Footage used from Syria and other places (and films) presented as actual events in Ukraine:

Maybe next week you will post photos of Nazi/Banderite UFOs killing civilians taken from Independence Day, and Putin's visage will be photoshopped over Will Smith's face.

So, PLEASE, back up all your claims and accusations, even the smallest assertion, with credible links, and if you post a link to twitter or to Russian media I will laugh at you.

Meanwhile, the Right-Sector Nazi’s (yes, ACTUAL NAZI’S), the only effective combat formations the Kiev Gov seems to have, are engaged in ethnic cleansing in the Southeast. You can’t call it anything else.

This lie has been repeated since day one, when, actually, the first person to be "cleansed" was a Ukrainian. Since that time, your Moscow buddies, protected by your Muslim Chechen bodyguards, have been "disappearing" people, until they do appear, usually in rivers or in forests.

WHY?? It's been pointed out to you hundreds of times already, and you still try to outright deny it, or minimize it.

You are a pathological liar. You have been told and shown many times that these "Nazi" elements received less than 1 percent of the vote. Your evil "Right Sector", which has an estimated 2,000 members, is only able to boast that they have maybe 10,000.

Every time this comes up, you post your stupid pictures of people with alleged Nazi signage, as if to prove that the Ukrainians are Nazis and deserve to be murdered, but you never once acknowledge the problem: they don't represent the majority of Ukrainians.

By the way, here is your heroic "anti-Nazi" Pro-Russia folks:

82 posted on 06/17/2014 2:05:05 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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